iranian government kidnaps 15 british sailors
Hey, maybe the UK will go to war with iran so we don't have to [;)]
http://www.foxnews.com/wires/2007Mar23/0,4670,BritishSeizedIran,00.html
http://www.foxnews.com/wires/2007Mar23/0,4670,BritishSeizedIran,00.html
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quote:Originally posted by Tigerclaw_x
British sailors have intruded in Iraq territorial waters. They were arrested for that. At least, the waters into which they went were disputed ones. I doubt that anything bad will happen to them.
They will sign a letter, which will say that their superior officer gave them a direct order to enter those waters, after which they will get sent home, and Iran will have a propaganda card to play.
It will accomplish nothing to kill those sailors. So, I do not fear for their lives.
How do you know Hairy? do you mean Iran waters? How do you know, or do you just assume that the allies are always in the wrong?0 -
I'm guessing that the marines would have fought but didn't want the sailors to get killed.
In any event, Iran would be completely brain damaged (not to mention a bit suicidal) to do anything to these men. The British are getting ready to pull dudes out of Iraq, so they've got plenty to go into Iran with.[;)]0 -
How 'bout this. The Brits tell the Iranians 48 hours to return the troops unharmed or they DECLARE WAR! Not an air strike or two, an actual declaration of war. The Brittish certainly can defeat Iran, it's time to put a stop to this crap or it will just continue and get worse. 0 -
Wow, I realize we all have differing opinions however the stick your head in the sand canadian monkeys et al are killing me. We have a right to use extreme force in Iraq and now Iran, and if we quit worrying about the civilian populations and just use extreme force we could end this immediately. Remember Japan's surrender? When the civilians have nothing they will then blame their leadership for getting them into the mess. Saddam had no problem preventing further insurgency did he? He simply killed anyone who pissed him off, including family members. We of course can not win a war that is fought with shop keepers and contract employees for our bases, when we continue to allow them to keep their shops and work on our bases. Kill them by the droves, make being Iraqi or Iraninan a rarity. Then watch how little trouble you get from these punks. I liken this to prison, walk in and smack the poop out of the biggest guy there. It may not make anyone afraid of you, but they do know that you will fight. As for the sailors being compared to the Pueblo the British had the capacity to fight and chose not to. The capatian of the Peublo was finsihed for allowing his ship to be captured. As to the Canadian Monkey, you ever heard of spilling a little blood to water the tree of freedom? 0 -
I think this man, Ahmadinejad, could suck the whole world into war if we let him.
That is an interesting picture of him then and now!
I saw him interviewed a while back, and he is a pretty evasive and vain individual ... a dangerous pretender to power. I really hope the Iranians of sound mind dump him ASAP. Things may well get worse before they get better with him at the helm and continuing to threaten the more reasonable nations of the world.0 -
quote:Originally posted by ElMuertoMonkey
At least Jimmy Carter tried something - Reagan gave the ayatollahs weapons.
I thought he Sold them?0 -
quote:Originally posted by cartod
quote:Originally posted by Tigerclaw_x
British sailors have intruded in Iraq territorial waters. They were arrested for that. At least, the waters into which they went were disputed ones. I doubt that anything bad will happen to them.
They will sign a letter, which will say that their superior officer gave them a direct order to enter those waters, after which they will get sent home, and Iran will have a propaganda card to play.
It will accomplish nothing to kill those sailors. So, I do not fear for their lives.
How do you know Hairy? do you mean Iran waters? How do you know, or do you just assume that the allies are always in the wrong?
You, my friend, need glasses. I have clearly said "At least the waters into which they went were disputed ones." Which means that Iran considers them theirs.
If Iran hurts those guys, then I say carpet bomb the place.0 -
Maybe Iran and Britania are working togather to draw us into a larger battle.[}:)] 0 -
quote:Originally posted by newtgingrich
quote:Originally posted by mogley98
The Captain of that vessel failed his crew when he allowed them to be captured he should have warned them then destroyed all of their vessels as soon as it became clear they had take his crew hostage. If he was out forced they should have called in help it is past time to start using extreme force regardless of public opinion, if the nuts realize for every act we will respond ruthlessly they will behave, if not willing to fight that way we should leave.
i would never, EVER allow a fellow soldier to be taken alive by the enemy. you are exactly right
So you would deliberately kill your fellow soldier in order to keep him from capture, thus denying him a chance to be released through goodwill? Do you have any friends???0 -
quote:Originally posted by sav99
How 'bout this. The Brits tell the Iranians 48 hours to return the troops unharmed or they DECLARE WAR! Not an air strike or two, an actual declaration of war. The Brittish certainly can defeat Iran, it's time to put a stop to this crap or it will just continue and get worse.
Yea, I think that might work. Thats the only thing radical muslims understand. There has to be consequences to their actions. They are spoiling for a fight and its time to bring them down a few notches.
Take out their air force, their command and control, the nuke base, and most of the radical muslim centers and then see what they have to say.
Since the Brits have announced they are leaving the fight Iran sees them as weak and unable to respond. Iran knows that the British people do not back Tony Blair anymore and he is on the way out of government.0 -
This morning two US carrier groups started routine maneuvers unrelated to the incident, 12 miles off the coast of Iran. 0 -
...since Britain has diplomatic ties with Iran...
...Have a meeting with Iranian's present. Sink half Iran's navy during meeting...put call thru to British officials in meeting that the attack has occured, pass the word to the Iranian's half their ships are now "history"; now tell them to release the sailors if they value their remaining ships...[;)]
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quote:Originally posted by andersk
I think this man, Ahmadinejad Bush, could suck the whole world into war if we let him.
That is an interesting picture of him then and now!
I saw him interviewed a while back, and he is a pretty evasive and vain individual ... a dangerous pretender to power. I really hope the Iranians Americans of sound mind dump him ASAP. Things may well get worse before they get better with him at the helm and continuing to threaten the more reasonable nations of the world.
Ain't that the truth.0 -
EMM -
My recollection of the event is that the Iranians ran like dogs and released our prisoners on the day that Ronald Reagan took the Oath of Office for the Presidency of the United States.
They all made it Home.
Carter wasted the lives of our Delta Force Heroes at Desert One, with his traditional incompetence.
If the Brits don't have the National Will to turn Iran into glass, maybe it's time for us to remind the savages of the Middle East that we do have that will.
And, that very act may calm the iraqis down.
By the way. the US won the war in Iraq. Those filthy people just are too stupid to realize what a good deal we would give them if they quit killing their own people and our Military. The model for that would be what we turned the destroyed countries of Germany and Japan into, after we utterly smashed them.
D.0 -
quote:Originally posted by Doug Wilson
EMM -
My recollection of the event is that the Iranians ran like dogs and released our prisoners on the day that Ronald Reagan took the Oath of Office for the Presidency of the United States.
They all made it Home.
Carter wasted the lives of our Delta Force Heroes at Desert One, with his traditional incompetence.
If the Brits don't have the National Will to turn Iran into glass, maybe it's time for us to remind the savages of the Middle East that we do have that will.
And, that very act may calm the iraqis down.
By the way. the US won the war in Iraq. Those filthy people just are too stupid to realize what a good deal we would give them if they quit killing their own people and our Military. The model for that would be what we turned the destroyed countries of Germany and Japan into, after we utterly smashed them.
D.
YOU utterly smashed them? Lets see. Where did Wehrmaht took 80% of their casualties? Who tore apart the Kwantung Army, which was over 1000000 strong? Who begged for help to start an offencive earlier and distract at least some German Army when Germans tore your guys appart as late as in 1944 in Ardennes? Who sat safely on their asses making money on war when others shed their blood for your dollars?
Gods, how would I love to see you taking on the full power of German Wehrmaht and Luftwaffe in 1942 and in 1943. but no, being cowards you sat on your hands and made money while Soviets and Brits bled for you.
You didn't win CRAP. You got defeated in Vietnam, you got stalemated in Korea. You got defeated in Iraq. In each case you had an overwhelming superiority in quality and quantity. You failed time after time again. The only time you succeded were when attacking 10:1 superiority and the enemy was already exhausted and defeated.0 -
quote:My recollection of the event is that the Iranians ran like dogs and released our prisoners on the day that Ronald Reagan took the Oath of Office for the Presidency of the United States."Ran like dogs?" Hardly. It's called "spite." Carter landed military forces in Iran and had supported the shah. They no more feared Reagan than they feared Carter. If anything, the ayatollahs all but elected Reagan themselves. And what a good deal that turned out to be...
quote:They all made it Home.Not because of anything Reagan did.
quote:Carter wasted the lives of our Delta Force Heroes at Desert One, with his traditional incompetence.He took the responsibility for it, unlike every Republican in recent times. But if you think Carter was the operational planner for Operation Eagle Claw, you're sadly mistaken. He didn't waste them - it was poor military planning on the part of the military (yes, I'm blaming them).
quote:If the Brits don't have the National Will to turn Iran into glass, maybe it's time for us to remind the savages of the Middle East that we do have that will.Yeah, like we showed them we had the will to botch the occupation of Iraq?
quote:And, that very act may calm the iraqis down.Like 9-11 calmed us down?
quote:By the way. the US won the war in Iraq. Those filthy people just are too stupid to realize what a good deal we would give them if they quit killing their own people and our Military. I believe you're paraphrasing Bill Clinton here: "Define 'victory.'"
quote:The model for that would be what we turned the destroyed countries of Germany and Japan into, after we utterly smashed them.No, the model for that would be to threaten them with Russian occupation. The United States, for all the supposed horror we visited upon the Germans, was still viewed as someone they (the Germans) could surrender to. Had we truly been so vicious as we like to think we were (we weren't - we're kitty cats when it comes to being vicious), they would not have been running to us in droves to surrender.
Whenever I hear people avocating a more brutal conduct for war, I'm reminded of Mussolini's bemoaning the fact that the Italians were not "a martial peoples."
We're not criminals or mass murderers. Get over it.0 -
There's two kinds of people who honestly think nuclear war (or carpet bombing of civilians, etc) is a good idea:
1) Certifiable psychopathic personalities
2) Drooling retards with overactive imaginations who were abused as children and beat off to snuff stories on the Internet
Based on the intelligence level demonstrated by some of the current posters, I'm going to assume it's the latter.
Try trotting out your "nuke Mecca" argument in front of an actual person instead of your toothless moron friends sometime and see what kind of a reaction you get.0 -
quote:Originally posted by Bullzeye
There's two kinds of people who honestly think nuclear war (or carpet bombing of civilians, etc) is a good idea:
1) Certifiable psychopathic personalities
2) Drooling retards with overactive imaginations who were abused as children and beat off to snuff stories on the Internet
Based on the intelligence level demonstrated by some of the current posters, I'm going to assume it's the latter.
Try trotting out your "nuke Mecca" argument in front of an actual person instead of your toothless moron friends sometime and see what kind of a reaction you get.
You seem to think you are pretty smart, we don't need Nukes to close the loop, we can use other military resources and economic isolation, yes including food and medicine if need be. Ruthless, uncivilized? You ever heard of a fair fight? My point is you can not "WIN" a war where the civilian population is not supportive. Vietnam, Afghanistan for the Russian's, and of course Iraq or for that matter Somalia. So if we do not have the stomach to cause large loss of life among the civilian population (which the Iraqi's themselves have no problem with and of course is who we are fighting as insurgents anyway)then we should come home. So yes while I hardly come close to the class of a toothless redneck I do have enough inteligence to know that consequences do effect actions of any rational individuals, so if these people are all irrational then goodbye and those who are not will decide the fight is not worth it. We pay for the oil by the way.0 -
quote: You seem to think you are pretty smart, Bullzeye does have a point, however.
quote:we don't need Nukes to close the loop, As do you.
quote:we can use other military resources and economic isolation, yes including food and medicine if need be.True enough.
quote:Ruthless, uncivilized? You ever heard of a fair fight? My point is you can not "WIN" a war where the civilian population is not supportive. Here's where you argument runs into some trouble. When did we declare war on Iran?
Why would we declare war on Iran?
I find it funny that having been stymied in Iraq, people are now clamoring for another war against someone bigger, meaner, and better prepared than the anemic prostrate nation that was Saddam's Iraq.
This is what we call a gambling addiction - having not got what you wanted with the first toss of the dice, you simply cannot wait for another go. It's made all the more appealing by the fact that you're not betting your life or money - it's someone else's.
quote:Vietnam, Afghanistan for the Russian's, and of course Iraq or for that matter Somalia. So if we do not have the stomach to cause large loss of life among the civilian population (which the Iraqi's themselves have no problem with and of course is who we are fighting as insurgents anyway)then we should come home. Perhaps - which makes me wonder why it is so many of y'all are so keen to go to war for such trivial reasons.
quote:So yes while I hardly come close to the class of a toothless redneck I do have enough inteligence to know that consequences do effect actions of any rational individuals, so if these people are all irrational then goodbye and those who are not will decide the fight is not worth it. There's just one fundamental flaw in your logic here: if we think or should think it is worth it to fight tooth and nail over foreign policy, what makes you think others will not think it equally worth it to fight in defense of their homes?0 -
Why would we declare war on Iran?
Actually I was hoping the British would.
I find it funny that having been stymied in Iraq, people are now clamoring for another war against someone bigger, meaner, and better prepared than the anemic prostrate nation that was Saddam's Iraq.
Again I say the only reason we are stymied in Iraq is because we choose to fight an insurgency that is the people without killing the people.
Perhaps - which makes me wonder why it is so many of y'all are so keen to go to war for such trivial reasons.
I don't want our people to go to war I think it is unfortunate that others can not behave in a civilized manner, if they continue to huff and puff and strut about daring us to try and stop them and then create an incident with us and we fail to answer they have gotten exactly what they wanted. Look if you are a civilized country and you want Nuclear power, you agree to allow UN inspectors to come see what you are doing. If you refuse you prove suspicion, if you grab a dozen plus sailors from the British you are going to far, you have provked a war and deserve what ever you get. There's just one fundamental flaw in your logic here: if we think or should think it is worth it to fight tooth and nail over foreign policy, what makes you think others will not think it equally worth it to fight in defense of their homes?
Fair enough they fight for god or whatever insane reason they are fanatic they will blow themselves up to kill for Allah, they refuse to acknowledge the right of others to live peacefully without following their religion, so hey like I said the first time if you don't have the stomach for the fight then lets have four or five different language schools, lets accomadate everyones religious desires and beliefs with laws that require the work place to stop for prayer, etc. etc. etc. Win a war or die trying or don't bother to fight it.0 -
Since you're obviously have such a keen grasp of how the world works, tell me how we would be able to justify the mass slaughter of civilians?
I can tell you haven't considered this, so I'll 'splain it to you nice and slow.
If we were to ever deliberately target a civilian population in order to achieve our military goals, three things would happen, in tight syncopation:
1)There would be mass-rioting in the streets of every major city in the world, including our own, demanding the immediate impeachment and arrest of the President and anyone who followed his orders to kill innocent civilians
2)The President would be impeached and arrested.
3)The age of the United States of America as a power would end.
I really can't even believe I'm sitting here having this conversation with a retarded Neanderthal like yourself, you pimple on the ass of the universe, you oxygen thief. People like you are why there are Liberals in the first place.[:(!]0 -
quote:Originally posted by p3skyking
quote:Originally posted by FrancF
I remember it well- I lost a family member that was a AE-6 Intruder pilot from USS Kitty Hawk CV-63 during Jimmy carters botched rescue attempt.
FrancF, Not trying to be a wise ass but just FYI.
EA-6B Prowler Electronic Jamming A/C
A-6 Intruder Attack A/C
Thanks P3, a typo on my part.[:)] Brad was on the Kitty Hawk that was in the north Arabian Sea when this Rescue mission happened. He and one other during a support mission crashed into a mountain side in bad weather according to the official report. However most of Brad's shipmates at the time say something total different than the report.0 -
quote:Why would we declare war on Iran?
Actually I was hoping the British would.Why would they? International incidents happen all the time and if they go to war, it will be on Iran's terms, not theirs.
quote:I find it funny that having been stymied in Iraq, people are now clamoring for another war against someone bigger, meaner, and better prepared than the anemic prostrate nation that was Saddam's Iraq.
Again I say the only reason we are stymied in Iraq is because we choose to fight an insurgency that is the people without killing the people.Given that we went in to liberate the people of Iraq (Excuse #439), killing them in job lots would be counterproductive to achieving our goal of a stable, democratic Iraq (Excuse #791).
In short, it is not our conduct that keeps us from winning - it was the unachievable campaign goals given that we are relying upon a military solution to a socioeconomic and political problem.
quote:Perhaps - which makes me wonder why it is so many of y'all are so keen to go to war for such trivial reasons.
I don't want our people to go to war I think it is unfortunate that others can not behave in a civilized manner, if they continue to huff and puff and strut about daring us to try and stop them and then create an incident with us and we fail to answer they have gotten exactly what they wanted. Look if you are a civilized country and you want Nuclear power, you agree to allow UN inspectors to come see what you are doing. If you refuse you prove suspicion, if you grab a dozen plus sailors from the British you are going to far, you have provked a war and deserve what ever you get. Iran was cooperating with the IAEA. It was only after the United States foisted additional protocols and restrictions upon Iran that they started getting squirrely.
quote:There's just one fundamental flaw in your logic here: if we think or should think it is worth it to fight tooth and nail over foreign policy, what makes you think others will not think it equally worth it to fight in defense of their homes?
Fair enough they fight for god or whatever insane reason they are fanatic they will blow themselves up to kill for Allah, they refuse to acknowledge the right of others to live peacefully without following their religion, so hey like I said the first time if you don't have the stomach for the fight then lets have four or five different language schools, lets accomadate everyones religious desires and beliefs with laws that require the work place to stop for prayer, etc. etc. etc. Win a war or die trying or don't bother to fight it.What leap of logic led you to believe that if we don't fight, fight, fight, that we must automatically be defeated? Have you bought so deeply into the propaganda that you think we're in a fight for our very survival? Are you that easily swayed by the media spinmeisters that you think Iran can outspend, outfight, invade, and conquer the USA if we don't preemptively hit them and knock them out of the picture?
Wake up, grow up, and learn to see beyond the peddled fear of the mass media. These are modern snake oil salesmen pitching you a cure all for your ills in the form of war with Iran.0 -
quote:Originally posted by 11echo
I'm betting that this was like my time in the U.S. Army ...I was guarding the the "iron Curtain" with 5 rounds in my magazine! The service was more afraid of me shooting up everything as appossed to me stopping any attack.
I'll also bet the SAS in warming up in the bull pen! We'll have to watch this one play out!
Trust me. The SAS and Royal Marine Commandos are straining at the leash on this one.0 -
quote:Originally posted by sav99
How 'bout this. The Brits tell the Iranians 48 hours to return the troops unharmed or they DECLARE WAR! Not an air strike or two, an actual declaration of war. The Brittish certainly can defeat Iran, it's time to put a stop to this crap or it will just continue and get worse.
That is what Israel would do.
I suspect this is about oil prices. Iran needs to find new ways to keep the middle east volatile to keep oil prices high. Iran has done nothing over the past 5 years but continually add risk to the prie of oil.0 -
What would Israel do?
What would Jimmy Cater do?
I thought Great Britain got along with the Iranians.0 -
I hope the British stand firm ... the dear President of Iran need to find out that he cannot play games with the rest of the world. And we need to stand firm with the Brits. This kind of stuff must stop.
When the more level-headed Iranians realize what their president is doing they should be ashamed and they should take steps to end his foolishness.
It could be that the British do get along with the Iranians ... we all get along with the Iranians ... its their resident sho is out of touch and some of the cronies in his administration. It kind of reminds me of the Iraqi dweeb General who kept making announcements about the succesful war in Iraq as the sky was falling in around him.0 -
quote:Originally posted by Captplaid
quote:Originally posted by sav99
How 'bout this. The Brits tell the Iranians 48 hours to return the troops unharmed or they DECLARE WAR! Not an air strike or two, an actual declaration of war. The Brittish certainly can defeat Iran, it's time to put a stop to this crap or it will just continue and get worse.
That is what Israel would do.
I suspect this is about oil prices. Iran needs to find new ways to keep the middle east volatile to keep oil prices high. Iran has done nothing over the past 5 years but continually add risk to the prie of oil.
Yes, indeed. This is what our "ally" would do. Care to guess who would then have the honor of shouldering the load?
Contrary to popular belief, oil prices are not high. The only reason that the US buys Middle Eastern oil is because it is much cheaper than oil drilled for here and in other non-OPEC areas.0 -
quote:Originally posted by Bullzeye
Since you're obviously have such a keen grasp of how the world works, tell me how we would be able to justify the mass slaughter of civilians?
I can tell you haven't considered this, so I'll 'splain it to you nice and slow.
If we were to ever deliberately target a civilian population in order to achieve our military goals, three things would happen, in tight syncopation:
1)There would be mass-rioting in the streets of every major city in the world, including our own, demanding the immediate impeachment and arrest of the President and anyone who followed his orders to kill innocent civilians
2)The President would be impeached and arrested.
3)The age of the United States of America as a power would end.
I really can't even believe I'm sitting here having this conversation with a retarded Neanderthal like yourself, you pimple on the ass of the universe, you oxygen thief. People like you are why there are Liberals in the first place.[:(!]
Gee didn't we target civilians in Hiroshima? Did we arrest or impeach our president, their were mass riots alright of support. It was over, finished completed. You choose to continue to call me stupid and use terms to imply I'm stupid because I don't agree with you or you feel my opinion or thoughts are of less inteligence then yours. I choose not to call you names or belittle you I simply marvel in how your parents must be very strong people to not be embarrased about your survival.0 -
Actually, civilians were not targeted. Quite a bit of time was spent trying to determine which Japanese cities had the most significant military value. Hiroshima had a large military base containing at least 43,000 troops. Nagasaki was an important port that provided access to Shanghai.
Of course, Truman probably didn't mind if civilians were killed.0
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