"Strip search:
what the hell is wrong with these cops
"Strip search: "This is a standard procedure and she was a resistor.""
This is disturbing to watch. I'm surprised it wasn't picked up by the national media. At least they didn't taser the lady. What is going on in this country that excuses can even be made for this sort of thing? What's with the skinhead county police? Most of the police I've known have been regular neighbors. Just coincidence probably but Stark County, Ohio, where this occurred, is where Diebold has it's headquarters. Thank goodness, the local news reporters were doing their job and our laws still allow them to do so.
Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1yUsYIk2EM&feature=related
Follow uphttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQ6Lsqmf9yM
_______________________________________________
There is no evidence that Blackwater trained this police department but it is curious that even the Iowa DNR has received some Blackwater training. http://www.infowars.com/articles/ps/blackwater_training_us_police.htm
"Strip search: "This is a standard procedure and she was a resistor.""
This is disturbing to watch. I'm surprised it wasn't picked up by the national media. At least they didn't taser the lady. What is going on in this country that excuses can even be made for this sort of thing? What's with the skinhead county police? Most of the police I've known have been regular neighbors. Just coincidence probably but Stark County, Ohio, where this occurred, is where Diebold has it's headquarters. Thank goodness, the local news reporters were doing their job and our laws still allow them to do so.
Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1yUsYIk2EM&feature=relatedFollow up
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQ6Lsqmf9yM_______________________________________________
There is no evidence that Blackwater trained this police department but it is curious that even the Iowa DNR has received some Blackwater training. http://www.infowars.com/articles/ps/blackwater_training_us_police.htm
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quote:Originally posted by GUNFUNCO
Most jails don't have "paper gowns". They usually have orange cloth jumpsuits. Maybe they need to get some.
I would say so. It isn't as if they cost a ton of money, either. If the State is interested in stripping prisoners for their own good, then it better be interested in providing them a means to cover up if they don't want to be naked.
quote:Police and guards routinely have to deal with naked people. Just like doctors and EMT's. If they don't have enough females on duty, the job still has to get done.
You completely miss the point. It is one thing to "have" to deal with naked people who for whatever reason are naked. It is another thing altogether to forceably strip someone and make them sit there for hours naked.
quote:Are there bad cops? Yup! Just like bad doctors, EMT's and even gunbroker members.
All I was saying is, get all the facts you can before you make your decision. Just like cops have to try and do every day when intervening in a dispute.
Of course there are bad people in every profession. I don't believe that I've come close to suggesting that all cops are bad. I am, however, suggesting that these deputies made some terrible decisions. And, I'm rather appalled by the suggestion by some here that we should do what we can to stay out of jail if we don't want bad things happening to us.
Some people wind up arrested due to no fault of their own. Like I said, I've come extraordinarily close twice in my life, my "crime" was being in the wrong place at the wrong time. One made it as far as taking me to the police station before figuring out they had the wrong person.
And, again, if I had been asked if I had ever had thoughts of suicide, the truthful answer would be "Yes" - just as it would for most people who made it through their teenage years.
quote:Would I want my wife, mom, daughter or sister to have to go through that? Nope. Nor would I want them arrested. Or hung in a jail cell if stupid enough to do that. Or shot by some lady that had a weapon hidden in her nether regions when that lady was booked into jail. Or burned by a paper hospital gown that was set on fire. Or any of the thousands of other ways that people have figured out how to hurt themselves or others over the last several thousand years.
I have no problems with someone arrested being strip-searched. I do have a problem forcing said searched person to sit there for hours naked. If the State is so worried about someone killing themselves and getting sued in the process, then the State better figure out a means to relieve the person of dangerous items without relieving them of their dignity. Again, providing prisoners in this position with a paper hospital gown is a SAFE, EASY and AFFORDABLE solution. And it was the very first thing to hit my mind when I saw this story...
I don't claim to be any sort of genius or especially insightful person... so why didn't someone at the jail figure this out?
quote:As far as the bad ID given to the cops-do any of you think that if I asked someone why they had another persons ID that just handed it to me when I was investigating a crime would really tell me they were doing it to conceal their identity? Or do you think they might tell me that it was a mistake.
Of course the possibility exists and it is likely more the rule than the exception. HOWEVER, that does not provide an excuse for failing to investigate. Again, this woman's story was EASILY verifiable. You run the ID. It is fake. It belongs to the sister. The sister is dead. The woman is explaining that she keeps that ID as a momento of her sister (I'd keep it at home and not in my wallet, but hey, everyone grieves and honors their loved ones in different ways). At some point, as an honorable LEO, you turn on that switch in your brain (the one labeled "Reason") and arrive at the conclusion of, "My gosh. This is plausible."
quote:I once stopped a guy on a 4 wheeler. He had no ID and gave me the name and DOB of his brother. It later took me 3 days to track down and arrest this idiot on false ID charges, after his brother told me he "heard" that someone got a ticket in his name. He wanted to show me that he wasn't the guy I stopped and that someone must have used his name and I should dismiss the ticket issued to him. I knew it had to be a relative of his because it was highly unlikely that anyone else would know his name, address and DOB.
Another ID story...
I once stopped a cab driver driving like crap in Detroit. (imagine that) He produced a Police badge and a "retired" police ID. Only problem was his drivers license stated he was the "Joe Blow III" and the police ID was burned where it identified JR, SR or III. He told me it happened when he was welding. I am 99 and 9/10% sure that this fat, greasy long haired idiot was never a cop. He took his dad's or grampas old police ID and burned that spot in it to use it to routinely get out of tickets. If I would have had more time I would have taken it and called the local precinct, and proved to this idiot that he was lying. But then what do I have? He didn't impersonate an officer. He was trying to impersonate a "Retired Officer". Guess what-no such law I know of. Now, why would I guess that? My train of thought was
1-guy driving like idiot.
2-guy didn't look like cop with unwashed long hair and was only in his late 30's or early 40's
3-how many people leave their police ID out right next to where you are welding and it "just so happens to burn the spot that identified you as being Jr, Sr or the III.
Your story about how you gave the wrong ID to me by mistake goes out the window if I find out you have a warrant or you were the one who started the fight in the first place.
I just tried to use my common sense. Now I am just asking you folks to use yours....
Your examples are irrelevant as neither instance provided a plausible excuse.
When you create rules that have no means for reason, you are no better than school administrators who employ "zero tolerance" policies. They are stupid on every level imaginable.
As a LEO, I expect you to consider evidence, ALL evidence, and act in an appropriate and rational manner. It is one thing to do what you must when your life is in danger. However, I don't see anything even remotely suggesting that this woman presented a danger to the deputies. This means that they had time to investigate, reflect, and arrive at conclusions.0 -
quote:Originally posted by tacking1
quote:Originally posted by spanielsells
quote:Originally posted by tacking1
It has been said twice...once by me.
If she had killed herself while being held waiting to calm down we would be discussing legal strategy for her family's claim.
Possibly so.
What you are suggesting, however, is that it was right to strip this woman of her dignity in order to protect the State from a lawsuit.
Using that logic, we should turn in all of our guns now. In this manner, no one will be sued for improper use of a firearm or failing to protect from injury/death by firearm?
an upset and emotional person, who, to whatever degree, has indicated an intent to harm themselves should be prevented from doing so. State laibility not withstanding it would seem to be a decent thing to do.
It would. And so would providing them something nonlethal to cover themselves with if they desired. You could easily accomplish this with, say, a 20-frickin cent paper hospital gown. [:(!][:(!][:(!][:(!][:(!][:(!][:(!][:(!][:(!][:(!][:(!]0 -
My, but there are some strong opinions based on this very edited and very incomplete video clip. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by nunn
My, but there are some strong opinions based on this very edited and very incomplete video clip.
Yes. On both sides.0 -
The news reporter said that the video was given to them by the lady that this happened to (incidentally, after she was already convicted and suing the LE agency).
You might ask yourself why she is doing this. If you carefully pay attention to the words the reporter uses, there is a lot of "dancing" around the facts. Some people may not notice this but cops usually do.
Everthing said was carefully worded to sensationalize the issue. Everything that was allegedly said or done by her was stated by someone else. They can lie and there is no recourse against them.
How come she didn't come on and say it? Because if she is later caught lying, her case goes out the window. If they are caught in a lie, it is just another "mistake". You may notice that "she" never even appeared in the news other than the jail video, much less said anything.
This was likely done on her part to help her civil case and by the news agency, to capture attention for "their" benefit.
Spaniel-I merely tried to demonstrate that I have had many people misrepresent who they were when I was investigating them for a crime or violation. There were many more than those.
In my experience, I never recall an instance where the false ID was a genuine mistake. Because I worked in conservation, I routinely had people give me hunting, fishing and other licenses/permits as well as the drivers licenses, pretending to be someone else. In 20 years, I probably had over 100( and that was the ones I caught) or more give me false ID or the license of another and none that I recall were an innocent mistake. Several times I had someone hand me cash along with their license and when I told them they should not be going there, they claimed it was a mistake and "must have gotten stuck there and wasn't intended as a bribe".
Yeah, right. I shouldn't need to say, but I never took it either. Not that you would believe me anyway. After all, I was a cop.0 -
quote:Originally posted by GUNFUNCO
The news reporter said that the video was given to them by the lady that this happened to (incidentally, after she was already convicted and suing the LE agency). You might ask yourself why she is doing this. If you carefully pay attention to the words the reporter uses, there is a lot of "dancing" around the facts. Some people may not notice this but cops usually do. Everthing said was carefully worded to sensationalize the issue. This was likely done on her part to help her civil case and by the news agency, to capture attention for "their" benefit.
Spaniel-I merely tried to demonstrate that I have had many people misrepresent who they were when I was investigating them for a crime or violation. There were many more than those.
In my experience, I never recall an instance where the false ID was a genuine mistake. Because I worked in conservation, I routinely had people give me hunting, fishing and other licenses/permits as well as the drivers licenses, pretending to be someone else. In 20 years, I probably had over 100( and that was the ones I caught) or more give me false ID or the license of another and none that I recall were an innocent mistake. Several times I had someone hand me cash along with their license and when I told them they should not be going there, they claimed it was a mistake and "must have gotten stuck there and wasn't intended as a bribe".
Yeah, right. I shouldn't need to say, but I never took it either. Not that you would believe me anyway. After all, I was a cop.
You obviously are offended by what people have said. I challenge you, Mr. Investigator, to provide a quote showing that I've implicated ALL cops in this. I've done no such thing. In fact, it is quite clear that I've indicated I have problems with THESE deputies.
But, why let your anger and emotions get in the way of truth? Oh, that's right. You've got a badge. I should trust you. [V]0 -
Spaniel, you and I have both said a mouthful.
I'll let people judge for themselves.0 -
PS. Does this mean I am not going to get a Christmas card from you this year?[:D] 0 -
quote:Originally posted by mateomasfeo
quote:Originally posted by tacking1
quote:Originally posted by mateomasfeo
quote:Originally posted by tacking1
It has been said twice...once by me.
If she had killed herself while being held waiting to calm down we would be discussing legal strategy for her family's claim.
Yeah, and if a frog had wings it wouldn't bump its ass...
aren't you up kinda early?
Matty - just for yucks....don't you imagine that it would be better to err on the side of caution?
Absolutely. And they obviously failed to do that in this case.
Read Tomahawk's post where he talks to the local Sheriff. He explains quite well how easy it would be to deal with such a situation CAUTIOUSLY.
I bet the jail in question has a policy manual stating basically the same procedure.
This ain't rocket science...
no it's not rocket science and those involved are not rocket scientists...or lawyers or judges or jurors or lawmakers or insurance company directors.
They are minimally paid, under educated, and what's available to do a job that I don't want to do. Were there a manual in place, then I suspect that they are under able to interpret it to apply specifically to any given situation. Don't expect a line grunt to interpret or determine policy, just to execute it.
A hunk of the posters are here Monday morning quarterbacking.0 -
I think if my wife went over to her cousins house for a visit, especially at night, and six or eight or ten or twelve hours later I haven't heard from or about her, I'd start asking questions. Maybe I'd start with the wife's cousin.
Something just ain't right about this story.0 -
jamesRK, hope you would't find that she was hauled in for a misdemeanor and that 7 cops held her down and stipped her of her clothes and left her in a cell naked[:0][B)] 0 -
quote:Originally posted by tomahawk
jamesRK, hope you would't find that she was hauled in for a misdemeanor and that 7 cops held her down and stipped her of her clothes and left her in a cell naked[:0][B)]
I also hope, james, that you didn't learn that she had hung herself in a cell, after being left alone to calm down and discuss, rationally, the situation.0 -
She doesn't drink. She only fights with her sister and sister-in-law. She doesn't get disorderly except at home. She doesn't resist arrest. She doesn't get smart-assed with the nurse at the jail.
I doubt that would happen. If it did, I would be there before she spent six hours in isolation. [;)]
I think the six hours is in dispute, by the way. It's up to eight hours on another thread. [:D]0 -
Another case of cops doing what cops do; IT'S WHY THEY'RE COPS.
Avoid them as you would a rabid dog and for the same reasons.
Clouder..0 -
She appeared to be a good candidate for the restraint chair, that would of been their best option until she was ready to cooperate. She didn't need to go to a hospital to be declaired a suicide risk, there are supervisors and medical staff on hand for that. 0 -
Who calls the law on their cousin anyway? If I had a cousin I couldn't whip, I'd consider not going to his house anymore. 0 -
I think its humorous that removing the clothing of a problem WHITE FEMALE inmate for her own protection provokes such outrage, and the killing of a BLACK MALE does not. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by nunn
I think its humorous that removing the clothing of a problem WHITE FEMALE inmate for her own protection provokes such outrage, and the killing of a BLACK MALE does not.
how many white females are the scourge of our society in comparison
in these two cases it is apples and oranges, someone recently posted a thread of a woman getting close to the same treatment at an airport, she was dead wrong, and everyone here was basically in agreement against her0 -
I don't care if your Casper white or Barney purple if you continuously are a problem for the cops (or society in general) and you try to take their gun and get shot, your fault not theirs.If you haven't done anything you wouldn't keep fleeing. Side note however, I don't like cops. What they did to that woman was wrong, if she was black it would be wrong or yellow or green or any other color possible it would be wrong! 0 -
quote:Originally posted by nunn
I think its humorous that removing the clothing of a problem WHITE FEMALE inmate for her own protection provokes such outrage, and the killing of a BLACK MALE does not.
Maybe I missed something... who killed the black male?0 -
quote:Originally posted by spanielsells
quote:Originally posted by nunn
I think its humorous that removing the clothing of a problem WHITE FEMALE inmate for her own protection provokes such outrage, and the killing of a BLACK MALE does not.
Maybe I missed something... who killed the black male?
Yeah,.......WTH?0 -
quote:Originally posted by nunn
I think its humorous that removing the clothing of a problem WHITE FEMALE inmate for her own protection provokes such outrage, and the killing of a BLACK MALE does not.
I think it's downright hilarious that so many people, in posession of so few facts presume to know what's "right" and what's "wrong".
If you haven't learned that any news source news only airs or prints what they want you to see, then you're incurably naive.
Once more from the top, kids. Any medium is, at it's heart, a business. And any news outlet that claims that they exist only to support the First Amendment is lying through their ink-stained teeth.
By the way, do you know why radio, television and newspapers are individually called a "medium"?
Because anything well-done is rare.0 -
quote:Originally posted by dano
Someone mentioned dignity and respect in jail.
If both of these are important to you, you might want to consider staying the Hell out of jail.
Dignity is almost unheard of in jail, and respect has to be earned.
Dano - your sane and reasonable posts on this thread are making me feel bad to flaming you in the dairy bar incident!0 -
I'm tellin you the restraint chair could have avoided a lot of this. Had she been a threat to herself, staff, or was being non-compliant that would have been the way to go. Its a wonderful invention that has a way of winning over the most belligerent of people. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by diver-rig
deputy(that arrested her) failed the psche eval. hhmm.
was not recomended for hire, but the sherrif hired him anyway. Musta been a member of the good 'ole boy club.
Once again, this idiot deputy failed a psche evail and recomended no hire, but the fat bloated sherrif hired him anyway?0 -
i really beginning to think that some of you leos have forgotten or detached yourselves from what it is like to be a civilian, i am aware that being a leo does in fact give you a different view of the world, but that also is a two way street 0 -
It gives you a different view of the world because you deal with scum of the earth on a daily basis.
And if you do deal with John Q. Citizen you deal with them at the worst day, and the worst hour of their life.
It's just the way it happens.0 -
quote:Originally posted by spanielsells
Maybe I missed something... who killed the black male?
Here ya go.
'My Baby Daddy Was Shot'0 -
Dano, you and the other cops here can sit here as a cop and a citizen and tell me the way the woman was treated after being strip searched throwed in a cell naked for hrs is right? disregarding any other issues that may or may not call for strip search....
this in my mind is just as criminal as anything she may or may not done....and those involved should be fired and more.0 -
Just my 2cents, you lose all your rights when you have been arrested, failure to follow orders will result in an unpleasent experience[8D] 0
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