Shooter was bullied.....
Well, the news keeps repeating what most of us already knew. The Va. Tech murderer was bullied at school.
As I kept hearing it, a question popped into my head.
Why is bullying such a common theme in these events? Is the torment inflicted by classmates enough to drive a person insane....or is it something else?
Are these shooters bullied because their classmates (perhaps unknowningly) sense that something isn't quite "right" about them....
As I kept hearing it, a question popped into my head.
Why is bullying such a common theme in these events? Is the torment inflicted by classmates enough to drive a person insane....or is it something else?
Are these shooters bullied because their classmates (perhaps unknowningly) sense that something isn't quite "right" about them....
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quote:Originally posted by dheffley
So now the bleeding hearts want to make him the victim? BS!
It isn't on his folks, it's on him and the university for not removing him after they knew he was dangerous.
It isn't "on" anyone or anything but the murderer.
This thread questions influences that may/may not have had an impact on the psyche and deeds of a murderer. Because we discuss these factors openly and passionately does not make us bleeding hearts.
We are drawn to trying to understand the murderer because we are intrigued by the frailness and strength of the human spirit. He did something we cannot comprehend. As part of society's healing process we vainly search for answers to believe we are solving problems.
The murderer is the one who pulled the trigger, and he knew the consequences of his actions. That makes him alone to blame. Because we discuss the parents role, or the teacher's role, a handgun's role, university role, or the bully role does not make us bleeding hearts, it merely proves us human.0 -
Most of the HS bullies I knew are now serving time in the state pen or homeless druggie losers. Hell I got my share of pointless azz whoppings to, but early in life you learn you don't live in a protective bubble. 0 -
Matty -
Are you a college student.
Doug0 -
quote:Originally posted by Doug Wilson
Matty -
Are you a college student.
Doug
Today, we all are.0 -
quote:Originally posted by mateomasfeo
quote:Originally posted by Doug Wilson
Matty -
Are you a college student.
Doug
Today, we all are.
I went to college, they told me "deliveries are in the back". Don0 -
As a young boy I had this conversation with my Pop:
Pop: Boy, I hear your being picked on.
Me: Yeah, there is this real big bully.
Pop: You should see if he's hungry.
Me: Hungry???
Pop: Yup, you should give him a sandwhich.
Me: A Sandwhich??? Are you trying to get me killed???
Pop: Yup, that boy just needs a knuckle sanwhich.
I did and it stopped the problem, every year of school after that there was some new kid trying to be cool and he got the same thing.0 -
quote:Originally posted by mateomasfeo
It isn't "on" anyone or anything but the murderer.
I disagree. The university knew he was dangerous and he had a history of violent actions like setting the fire on school property. Therefore, they had a responsibility to remove him for school to protect the others students and didn't.0 -
quote:Originally posted by COLT
...Good grief, bullying huh? Bullying my azz. Bullying was NEVER a "reason" to become mass murderer and a "catch-all of blame", until the head docs and lefties got all touchy feely with this "bullying" crap.
..."Oh my, someone is being so insensitive to me, think I'll go kill 32 people". DUH!!!
...Cho was freakin evil, a whack job...not much else to it, period.
...Give this story time in the hands of the main stream media and Cho's actions will be tied to global warming...[xx(]
I agree. I was bullied and picked on most of my life growing up in school but that does not give me the right to go out and kill a bunch of people and blame it on them. I would never do that because it is not right. Does not even look like he killed people who picked on him, just random people who happened to be there. They are just trying to make him look better and make it seem as if he is the victim and not the ones he killed.0 -
quote:The university knew he was dangerous
A'ha!...Now it's back to them folks fault...0 -
quote:Originally posted by dheffley
quote:Originally posted by mateomasfeo
It isn't "on" anyone or anything but the murderer.
I disagree. The university knew he was dangerous and he had a history of violent actions like setting the fire on school property. Therefore, they had a responsibility to remove him for school to protect the others students and didn't.
The murderer alone is to blame.
Heff, I respectfully disagree. Could it have been handled better? In hind sight the answer is always "Yes!"
A psychologist found he was not a danger. He wrote some freaky plays. So did I when I was young. He emailed some girls (twice), took some pics of a girls legs, and acted like an azz. If that is how you get kicked out, my university should have kicked me out too. (Oh wait, they did!) 26,000 kids doing everything you can possibly imagine and the university is gonna police that? Next to impossible.
A judge couldn't keep him in the nut house. So blame the university? While you're at it blame the judicial system. Then blame the voters, then blame yourself.
To me, blaming the university is like blaming guns. Feels good, but lacking in logic and substance. Universities don't kill students, murderers do.
I can't wait to hear the comments about the blood sucking lawyers when the lawsuits start. I will be standing here, referring you to your mirror...0 -
quote:Originally posted by mateomasfeo
I can't wait to hear the comments about the blood sucking lawyers
I told ya I was gonna wait a week. Don0 -
quote:Originally posted by dcon12
quote:Originally posted by mateomasfeo
I can't wait to hear the comments about the blood sucking lawyers
I told ya I was gonna wait a week. Don
Yes, but you've let me down so many times before.0 -
I wonder what the Movie will be called? 0 -
"Poor Thing" ??
D.0 -
quote:I wonder what the Movie will be called?
Hmmm..."Hey Icecreams Who Can We Blame"...gotta nice ring to it...0 -
quote:Originally posted by select-fire
I wonder what the Movie will be called?
"The Devil Made Me Do It"0 -
A couple nights ago on late night news coverage, I caught an interview with both of his roommates.
It did not sound like he was bullied at the college.
He stalked 3 girls. The girls were creeped out by him and he never had a girlfriend. People keep saying that he killed his gf first and that is incorrect. His roomates were saints. They let him play songs on his laptop over and over again. They put up with him the whole time and never forced him to do anything. They even drank with him one time, but he rarely said two words to them.
Half the time, he refered to himself as 'Question Mark'. Completely out of his mind.
Anyway, it's likely he was bullied in highschool. It sounded like some of the targets may have been people he went to highschool with.0 -
quote:Originally posted by vess1
A couple nights ago on late night news coverage, I caught an interview with both of his roommates.
It did not sound like he was bullied at the college.
He stalked 3 girls. The girls were creeped out by him and he never had a girlfriend. People keep saying that he killed his gf first and that is incorrect. His roomates were saints. They let him play songs on his laptop over and over again. They put up with him the whole time and never forced him to do anything. They even drank with him one time, but he rarely said two words to them.
Half the time, he refered to himself as 'Question Mark'. Completely out of his mind.
Anyway, it's likely he was bullied in highschool. It sounded like some of the targets may have been people he went to highschool with.
But a good number of the targets were teachers or older adults that he could not possibly have gone to HS with.0 -
quote:Originally posted by mateomasfeo
quote:Originally posted by dcon12
quote:Originally posted by mateomasfeo
I can't wait to hear the comments about the blood sucking lawyers
I told ya I was gonna wait a week. Don
Yes, but you've let me down so many times before.
At least I let ya. Don0 -
[/quote]
But a good number of the targets were teachers or older adults that he could not possibly have gone to HS with.
[/quote]
I'm sure they unfortunately were just in the wrong place at the wrong time. Looking at the victims, he didn't discriminate. He had to have walked all the way over there for some reason though.0 -
quote:Originally posted by BlackRoses
Colt...
Touchy feely?....
Do me a favor...If you have kids, take one of them and constantly call them stupid, dumb...tell them they will never amount to anything....ONE FLIPPIN WEEK and you will see a big drastic change in them....Now do it for years and see what happens...
Dont forget, he had been trying to fit in since the day he arrived in America...
It's the parents JOB to tell him he ISN'T stupid or dumb. To tell him he can be anything he wants to be.
Hell, I may not be the smartest guy in the world, but I sure didn't know any better growing up. My mom always told me how smart I was, how good at this and that I was. True or not, that type of positive reinforcing from parents offsets the NORMAL behavior of other kids.
I talked to a guy (liberal) today who was telling me it was ALL our faults for what happened in VA. BS! It's the fault of a twisted, f-ed up, south korean.
Ben0 -
quote:Originally posted by mateomasfeo
Heff, I respectfully disagree.
That's cool with me, I just believe that when they control suspension of students for behavioral or academics at their own discretion, then they have to accept the responsibility when they fail to follow through. I attended two colleges, and they would suspend a student at the drop of a hat for almost any contact with police or any unacceptable behavior. VT just turned a blind eye to a bad situation, and it bit them in the backside.0 -
This all just makes me mad, He didnt think of anyone else, he thought of himself. Think of everyone who will miss 4th of july parties, christmas, thanks giving, everything, because he got picked on, its not right, its not fair. Where is the world going to? This is a prime example of it. 0 -
I do think that bullying is a problem. There are thousands of moms out there (and some dads if they are lucky enough to live with their kids in this age of single female parent households) where they are trying to raise the Spock nation "Live long and prosper" kind of Spock, not that other guy who wrote books.
My wife tried it with my son. It did not work. When it reached a critical point where other kids were finally dangerously close to breaking his spirit because he did not want to disappoint his mother, or me, or his teachers by fighting back I finally had had enough. I will never forget the conversation. "If they hit you, hit them back son" "You mean I will not get in trouble?" "Not with me. You have to decide whether you want to live your entire life as victim -- the choice is yours"
He was in a fight everyday at school for a week. The physical bullying stopped then. I wish with hindsight that I had told him that 6 years earlier, it would have saved him from a lot of pain.
We all cary scars from being bullied. I was bullied but hot head and swung back. I think most fights I was in as a kid was because someone was bullying someone else who either could not or would not defend themself.
I truly believe that when children (yes he was 23 but he never got past this part of his childhood) are bullied it puts them more at risk to snap later and hurt themselves or others.
Having said that this person either was or became a sociopath and a killer. Either way he was a twisted S.O.D. which HIPPA and ADA and other wonderful "touchy feel good laws privacy laws" allowed to slip through the system and not be stopped before this tragic horrible nation changing event took place. Now the honest sane people will pay for this with the loss of freedoms and rights -- no different than someone flying a couple planes into tall buildings full of people killing thousands - I still get upset when I have to take my shoes off to board a plane.
This was NOT the worst massacre in US history. That happened on 911 and it involved box cutters, airplanes and buildings full of people. No guns were involved.0 -
quote:Originally posted by Jacob2008
This all just makes me mad, He didnt think of anyone else, he thought of himself. Think of everyone who will miss 4th of july parties, christmas, thanks giving, everything, because he got picked on, its not right, its not fair. Where is the world going to? This is a prime example of it.
Psychotic people think everyone is against them and all their bad thoughts and feelings are everyone else's fault. They care about no one except themselves.0 -
quote:Originally posted by dheffley
quote:Originally posted by mateomasfeo
Heff, I respectfully disagree.
That's cool with me, I just believe that when they control suspension of students for behavioral or academics at their own discretion, then they have to accept the responsibility when they fail to follow through. I attended two colleges, and they would suspend a student at the drop of a hat for almost any contact with police or any unacceptable behavior. VT just turned a blind eye to a bad situation, and it bit them in the backside.
Those were the good days Danny. Days of personal responsibility. My kinda days, too. Days I wish would return. Today the Universities are in a no win situation. ACLU v. Common Sense.
I just hate placing the blame on anyone other than the murderer. Anything less plays against my dreams of the return to the days of personal responsibility.
I think it is normal to try and find a reason, to affix blame. Some things are just not reasonable.
However, as more evidence comes to light, I could change my mind and position about the University's liability. I, like all of us, will continue to struggle with these complex issues. Whatever the outcome I appreciate the civil discussion!0 -
Well if we are going to play the blame game and say it was societies fault, or a group of peoples fault that he went insane:
I think its the fault of all the loose women at VT who neglected him.
They could have surely removed the anger from him, plus they'd have their "stories", I hear some compete (just like some guys do) to get the weirdest person, someone who will make the most interesting story.
I'll bet if he had a threesome the night before he'd have forgotten all about his plans to shoot up the school, and would be making plans to see them again.0 -
This bullying argument is pointless.
What you're seeing in this nutjob's writings and videos are simply the ramblings of a defective brain. Our rational minds are reading bullying into this because he says everything was the fault of others, that everyone around him acted evil and they were engaged in a great conspiracy to abuse, persecute or belittle him.
Understand that all these things he relates have passed through his own bizarre prism of reality, so don't expect to gain any great insight into exactly how he became this way by picking his statements apart. The best you can expect by hearing such people out is to categorize them by their thought patterns and possibly determine what type of treatment might be effective.
Mentally ill folks can have their own unique form of logic that makes no sense at all to the rest of us. Using your logical brain to try and make sense of illogical thought patterns is an exercise in futility.
The fact that this guy slipped, or more accurately fell like a rock, through the cracks of the mental health treatment world is about the only thing you can glean from analyzing his stuff.0 -
"Why is bullying such a common theme in these events? Is the torment inflicted by classmates enough to drive a person insane....or is it something else?"
To answer the question; yes bulling can cause severe emotional and psycological maledies. Some who are victims of bulling have in place, from birth, a natural propencity for emotional instability. The rejection and ridicule of classmates, family, or society at large can intensify this natural bent towards mental illness, where a person who is born emotionally stronger may overcome it. Coversly, a person who has endured even greater hardships and trauma in the formidable years may turn out to be emotionally healthy and well adjusted. It's that balance between nature and nurture. It is possible then, that being bullied, ie. rejected can result in a person developing severe psycosis. This does not of course excuse what this man did. He had many opportunities through out his life to seek help for his mental conditions. I'm sure that more than once in his 23 years it occured to him that he desprately needed help. Unfortuniately for all involved he chose not to get it.0 -
We don't live in a "cowboy" world, where everyone bands together for the good of the group. How many of you ever saw someone getting picked on at school, and you didn't rush in to help? So there's one poor shmo in the middle of dozens, if not hundreds of people, who do nothing.
You get someone whose prone to becoming unglued, and what do you get?
You may not get someone who goes ballistic with a gun, but you get a sociopath.0
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