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So I had a situation at work today....

callktulu
I am a shift supervisor at my company, and I was asked to sit in today for an employee's termination. Our Human Resources manager is a female, and she is excellent at her job: very professional, shrewd, and knowledgeable. I have a great deal of respect for her, and I'm flattered that she asked me to sit in as a witness. I think I was also asked to be there "just in case" things went ugly or violent.

So while we're sitting there and the (ex-) employee is having his life shattered, I thought to myself, what if things go bad? Our company has a VERY strict "no guns" policy that I assume could mean my own termination if caught with one on company property.

I don't want this to turn into a "you shouldn't work there because of their gun policy" thread, but instead focus on the hypothetical - should things turn violent, do I risk my job by using my firearm to defend my self or others against someone else's violence?

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Comments

64 comments

Date Votes
  • cce1302
    So you think their stated policy is "no guns" but they like to keep you close by because you carry?
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  • callktulu
    quote:Originally posted by cce1302
    So you think their stated policy is "no guns" but they like to keep you close by because you carry?


    No one knows I carry.

    EDIT: Besides all of you, of course.[:D][:p]
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  • Permanently deleted user
    I would say that you have to...do you really have a choice. If a firearm becomes necessary, you are going to have to do what needs to be done....
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  • Ramtinxxl
    Assuming, by the way you state the question, that you are already packing--in violation of company policy--and assuming that by "going bad" you mean the (ex) employee gets violent using a weapon of opportunity or his own concealed weapon, wouldn't you feel foolish and useless if you allowed that person to kill or injure the HR director or yourself or others while you did nothing (with your weapon) for fear of being fired? Kinda goes back to the "jury of twelve vs. 6 pallbearers" debate, doesn't it?
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  • iwannausername
    Better to be working at Burger King than pushin up daiseys...
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  • needmyguns
    if it gets out of hand break a chair over his head.[:o)][:o)]
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  • cce1302
    I wish we didn't have to make this kind of choice. It could mean our job if we are caught making the right choice, or our life if we get caught making the wrong choice.
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  • callktulu
    quote:Originally posted by Ramtinxxl
    assuming that by "going bad" you mean the (ex) employee gets violent using a weapon of opportunity or his own concealed weapon,


    I don't think he carries. I was just assuming he would get physically violent with his hands or a paperweight. Something like that.

    Let me clarify my original post by saying I have NO DOUBT that if he drew a weapon, mine would come out, too, regardless of company policy. My original scenario was meant if he got violent without a firearm as a weapon.

    Did I mention I'm a small guy, about 5' 7" and 140 #s. I'm not going to win any fistfights (unless my liberal sister wanted to give me a try in the ring).
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  • iceracerx
    Let me get this straight. You want to know if "we" think you should be able to shoot someone that might get physical with your Human Resources rep?

    Your company's security force should have been at the discharge meeting if you "thought it might turn ugly or violent". Lacking that, you should have called the local police before the meeting.

    The fact that you were willing to act as "Company Muscle" doesn't put you on the side of right.

    Another thing you need to consider is that you would be behind "if he drew a weapon". Action always beats Reaction. Maybe you just need to do YOUR job in the future.
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  • Ramtinxxl
    quote:Originally posted by callktulu
    quote:Originally posted by Ramtinxxl
    assuming that by "going bad" you mean the (ex) employee gets violent using a weapon of opportunity or his own concealed weapon,


    I don't think he carries. I was just assuming he would get physically violent with his hands or a paperweight. Something like that.

    Let me clarify my original post by saying I have NO DOUBT that if he drew a weapon, mine would come out, too, regardless of company policy. My original scenario was meant if he got violent without a firearm as a weapon.

    Did I mention I'm a small guy, about 5' 7" and 140 #s. I'm not going to win any fistfights (unless my liberal sister wanted to give me a try in the ring).


    Even his pocketknife, which I would assume is NOT forbidden, automatically escalates the situation to one of deadly force. You would do what you MUST do to stop the threat to yourself or others. Try to imagine that you'll be rewarded for preventing further bloodshed. If not, try to imagine working for people who would penalize you for same. As someone said above, a living burger flipper is better than a dead shift supervisor.
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  • select-fire
    You can always use the excuse you forgot you had your gun concealed. Take some martial art self defense courses. Smaller guy takes out monster .. details at 11:00. The fired employee now has it out for you outside the company.
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  • iceracerx
    Pull your own weapon and the next exit interview might be yours. I wonder if your shift would throw a party?

    First you build yourself up like Rambo - "I think I was also asked to be there "just in case" things went ugly or violent."

    Then you inform us that you are anything BUT intimidating - "Did I mention I'm a small guy, about 5' 7" and 140 #s. I'm not going to win any fistfights (unless my liberal sister wanted to give me a try in the ring)."

    I think you are a fool.
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  • walther86
    Well it comes down to would you rather keep your job or your life. I would use my weapon in a heartbeat if I had to, but if this guy was pretty "non-threatening" I'd use my fist before my firearm. I agree with NEEDMYGUNS, just break a chair over his head[:D]
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  • callktulu
    quote:Originally posted by iceracerx
    Let me get this straight. You want to know if "we" think you should be able to shoot someone that might get physical with your Human Resources rep?

    Your company's security force should have been at the discharge meeting if you "thought it might turn ugly or violent". Lacking that, you should have called the local police before the meeting.

    The fact that you were willing to act as "Company Muscle" doesn't put you on the side of right.

    Another thing you need to consider is that you would be behind "if he drew a weapon". Action always beats Reaction. Maybe you just need to do YOUR job in the future.


    OK, I don't think you know what you're talking about, and I know I didn't make myself clear, so you're jumping to incorrect conclusions.

    First of all, we do not have company security.

    Second, I was asked to be an additional person as a witness to the conversations. First and foremost. (I think perhaps as an ulterior motive was in case things got ugly, but the likelihood of that is minuscule. Definitely not the primary reason I was asked to be there.)

    Third, what do you think "my job" is that I was doing wrong? This guy wasn't even on my shift, so I had absolutely no control over why he was terminated. Again, you're jumping to incorrect conclusions, and I'm not sure why. Perhaps I was not clear enough in my posts. If so, I apologize for unintentionally misleading you.

    I thank you for your input nonetheless.
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  • callktulu
    quote:Originally posted by iceracerx

    I think you are a fool.



    You're the one jumping to incorrect conclusions. You want to please skip the personal attacks and just keep to the facts, or do you really think your internet attitude is going to influence me?
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  • Mk 19
    Of course you could carry one of these and still be in company policy, plus you would not have to use deadly force to control the situation.

    http://www.coldsteel.com/91sp.html
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  • select-fire
    Guy must have really screwed up... to have a place fire you 12 days before Christmas. Now you might want to really consider what kind of people run that place to do it to someone. I would have given a few days off without pay..
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  • tomh.
    Maybe you guys will turn out to be really close friends and you can go job hunting together! [;)]
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  • callktulu
    quote:Originally posted by select-fire
    Guy must have really screwed up... to have a place fire you 12 days before Christmas. Now you might want to really consider what kind of people run that place to do it to someone. I would have given a few days off without pay..


    Uh, no, he did it to himself, and he knew it.

    This wasn't a case of "we don't like you for whatever reason, so we're letting you go." He was 100% in violation of a VERY liberal attendance policy. This wasn't something that happened "just before Christmas," but rather the culmination of 11 months of attendance violations.
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  • callktulu
    quote:Originally posted by Mk 19
    Of course you could carry one of these and still be in company policy, plus you would not have to use deadly force to control the situation.

    http://www.coldsteel.com/91sp.html


    Very cool. Airplane legal?

    It would be even better if it were logo-free instead of advertising itself as "something-other-than-a-real-Sharpie" pen.
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  • Colt Super
    In the past, when I have been confronted by that exact situation, with the same suspicions that you had, upon entering the room, I have immediately shot and killed the terminating employee, thus adding emphasis to the company's term "termination".

    In each case I was praised by company management, and tasked to dispose of the trash.

    It is the only rational approach when one is confronted with a situation that one suspects may lead to possible violence.

    I have also used this technique when confronted with challenging interpersonal relationships outside the workplace.

    It certainly simplifies one's life.

    Doug
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  • iceracerx
    quote:Originally posted by callktulu
    quote:Originally posted by iceracerx

    I think you are a fool.



    You're the one jumping to incorrect conclusions. You want to please skip the personal attacks and just keep to the facts, or do you really think your internet attitude is going to influence me?


    I'm sure that whatever I might think or know will have absolutly NO influence on you.
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  • callktulu
    quote:Originally posted by Doug Wilson
    It certainly simplifies one's life.

    Doug


    Oops, I actually read that incorrectly the first time as "It certainly simplifies one's wife."

    [:D]
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  • callktulu
    quote:Originally posted by iceracerx
    quote:Originally posted by callktulu
    quote:Originally posted by iceracerx

    I think you are a fool.



    You're the one jumping to incorrect conclusions. You want to please skip the personal attacks and just keep to the facts, or do you really think your internet attitude is going to influence me?




    I'm sure that whatever I might think or know will have absolutly NO influence on you.


    There you go! You finally got one conclusion right![8D]
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  • select-fire
    One less Christmas Bonus to pay... Real Class.. fired ..
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  • callktulu
    We don't have a bonus program, Christmas or otherwise.
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  • LesWVa
    I thought that it was illegal to disclose a persons employment record to the public.

    "Yes Sir, Mr/s _____ _____ worked here from such and such date until such and such date.

    "NO. I can not give the the reason he/she is no long longer employed with this company. NOR can I disclose his/her work habits. FOR that would be in VIOLATION of state and federal law."

    "..I think I was also asked to be there "just in case" things went ugly or violent..."

    Hope that the guy does not visit the GB forums and sees this thread. For you even remotely insinuating that he may be a violent person can land you in some deep and seriously hot water legally.
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  • iluvguns
    quote:do I risk my job by using my firearm to defend my self or others against someone else's violence?



    It's usually easier to ask forgivness than it is permission. [:D]
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  • Alpine
    You're asking an opinion from people that would not place themselves in your predicament in the first place.

    If the company wants a witness tell them to buy a video camera.

    If the HR person is so sharp they why do they need a witness. If she had her ducks in a row, a witness is unnecessary.

    If I was asked what you were asked, I would politely decline, without explanation, and suggest the video camera. If the HR person insisted on a reason, then depending on your take on her tell her or not.

    And by the way I'm not a small person, and I have taken down violent people before. There is no way I'm going into a place where there is a level playing field. The way to always win is to make sure the odds are all in your favor.
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  • iceracerx
    I can only hope that if you had "popped" that big bad (ex)employee with that NAA 22 of your's, that he would have shoved it up your hiney, sideways.
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