baptism question{s}

November 07, 2007 13:16

I cannot understand this use of the word 'symbol'. Baptism isn't a symbol of death and burial. It is a death and burial, followed by a resurrection directed toward walking in newness of life.

There are two types of understandings or valuations going on when we speak of the bible and of ourselves. On the one hand, we have our understanding of a matter, and as to baptism, it's apparent that many folks feel baptism is no more than a symbol.

But there is another understanding. And that is the valuation that God Himself places upon baptism. And we always find God's mind on a matter in His own Word.

For us, a symbol. For God, an act (not of 'obedience', but of faith) by which our old man is actually, factually, and fatally put to death.

Prayer for healing is not a symbol, but a means to an end, that is being healed. Baptism is not a symbol, but a means to an end, that is the death of the old man, and the rising of the new man.

Truth is, you cannot find the word 'symbol' in the New testament. No more than you can find the phrase "an act of obedience". An act of obedience follows commandment. Baptism isn't a commandment. It's an agency, a process, whereby the flesh is put down, killed, and the spiritual man is born.

If baptism is a symbol, how is it that being baptized means, "....that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. FOR HE THAT IS DEAD IS FREED FROM SIN"? Romans 6:6-7.

Do you recall what Jesus said to the woman taken in adultery? You'll find it in the 8th chapter of the gospel of John. Here are the Lord's words, "....Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more." John 8:11.

Jesus healed a man on the sabbath at the pool of Bethesda, which healing was against the sabbath law. So the Jews asked the man who it was that had healed him, for he too was breaking the sabbath by carrying his pallet on which he had lain for 38 years. He didn't know, for Jesus had conveyed himself away. Later, Jesus finds the man in the temple and says to him, "....Behold, thou are made whole: sin no more,lest a worse thing come unto thee." John 5:14.

Life for one who is saved, should be a life of 'sinning no more'. Yes, I know people say no one, save Jesus Himself was without sin. But the bible says differently. Another example of man's understanding, as opposed to God's understanding and mind on the matter.

The parents of John the Baptist, Zacharias and Elisabeth, "....were both righteous before God, walking in ALL THE COMMANDMENTS AND ORDINANCES OF THE LORD BLAMELESS." Luke 1:6. Sin was at that time, the breaking of the commandments and ordinances. But Elisabeth and Zacharias were walking blameless in the law.

And Paul? He persecuted the church, standing by as Stephen was stoned. But Paul was also without blame as to the righteousness in the law. "Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, BLAMELESS." Philippians 3:6.

And we have Jesus, as fully human as any man who ever lived, who was, "....in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin." Hebrews 4:15b

Being baptised is an act of faith by which the old man of sin is destroyed, so that we might hereafter live a life of righteousness, not a life of sin and degradation.

Baptism isn't just a symbol. It's a door into righteousness through faith.

Sahagan

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SahaganBeta

November 07, 2007 13:27

And once again, this issue about the name by which we are baptized. This controversy takes all attention away from what it is baptism does, and concentrates on a minor issue.

Jesus said plainly, to, "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost...'

'Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you..." Matthew 28:19-20. That phrase 'all things whatsoever I have commanded you' includes in it, the commandment to baptize in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.

If Jesus' words on a matter aren't sufficient, then whatever you choose to do, however you choose to do it, is of course, your perogative. If God doesn't care, cool. If He does care, then maybe not so cool.

Jesus said to baptize in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. And yet Peter baptized in the name of Jesus.

So we then, enlightened souls that we are, argue endlessly (and yep, this argument has gone on for literally thousands of years) over this little thing, while one of the most important experiences of the Christian life, that of the death of the flesh, of the old man, and of becoming a totally new man, is ignored.

I still say, it shouldn't be an issue of how it's done, but what doing it does for us.

Sahagan

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Captplaid

November 07, 2007 16:00

Thanks for an interesting read.

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iluvguns

November 07, 2007 17:00

quote:Baptism isn't just a symbol. It's a door into righteousness through faith.

That's fine you believe that. But I don't. Baptism is an outward sign of an inward change. You can be saved without being baptized. What about the thief hanging beside Jesus on the cross? He confessed, and without being baptized, Jesus said that he would be with him in heaven. Again, no baptism.

Here is what my church (Presbyterian) has to say on the issue, from our Book of Common Worship:

Baptism symbolizes the baptism of the Holy Spirit and is the external sign of the covenant which marks membership in the community of faith. In this sacrament the church witnesses to God's initiative to claim persons in Christ, forgive their sins, grant them grace, shape and order their lives through the work of the Holy Spirit, and set them apart for service. (Mt. 3:11-12; Acts 2:28-31, 10:44-48)

The sacrament of baptism is administered to infants, one or both of whose parents or guardians affirm faith in Jesus Christ and assume the responsibilities of the covenant, and to all persons who affirm personal faith in Jesus Christ and have not received the sacrament. (Acts 16:14-15, 32-33; 1 Co 1:16)

Water is the element to be used in this sacrament. The person receiving the sacrament is to be baptized in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. (Mat. 28:19; Ac. 8:36-39, 10:47-48)

In administering the sacrament the pouring or sprinkling of water on the person by the minister fittingly symbolizes the baptism of the Holy Spirit; however, the validity of the sacrament is not dependent upon its mode of administration. (Ac. 2:33, 10:45; Tit. 3:4-7)

It is the privilege and duty of all believers to seek baptism for themselves and their children, and to accept its benefits. However, baptism is neither an indispensible condition of salvation nor effective apart from life in Christ and the church. (Ac. 8:36-38, 16:15, 33; 1 Co. 1:16)

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Captplaid

November 07, 2007 17:07

I guess when baptism is done in the cattle tank it's called "dunking" instead of "immersion".

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iluvguns

November 07, 2007 17:09

quote:I guess when baptism is done in the cattle tank it's called "dunking" instead of "immersion".

In the South, we call it "dunkin'" no matter where it's done!! [:D]

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