baptism question{s}
what form of baptism do you believe in, Jesus name, father/son/holy spirit, sprinkle, etc.?
why is it important one way vs. another
why is it important one way vs. another
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quote:Originally posted by JamesRK
quote:Originally posted by 1911a1fan
maybe that is what enabled you to be 1 of the 2 who are able to answer the question correctly[:)]
If you already knew the correct answer, why did you ask the question?
I don't know who you picked as the other correct answer, but nunn gave you the first correct answer.
If you're a Christian being baptized is a good thing and you should do it. It is not required for salvation. If you're not a Christian, it doesn't matter very much.
i did not ask what anyone believes what requirement there was for salvation, the question was HOW where you baptized if in fact you where, it doesn't matter what you have done since for salvation, and there is no correct answer so i did not know the answer already, there is only answer of what a person believes, if you do not believe in water baptism then that would be your answer, no sarcasm required
let me ask it again
what form of baptism do you believe in, Jesus name, father/son/holy spirit, sprinkle, etc.?
i don't see a thing in that question about what you believe in for salvation
quote:Show me the passage in Scripture where it says that Jesus was immersed. It ain't there. But it doesn't matter. Our church baptizes by pouring, symbolizing the "out pouring" of the Holy Spirit on the person when they are saved. But if you come over from the Church of Christ or from a Baptist church, we accept your baptism, whatever the mode in which it was administered.
it like most of the bible is subject to debate
Mathew 3 16
And Jesus, when he was abaptized, went up bstraightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the cSpirit of God descending like a ddove, and lighting upon him
another version, depending on what bible your reading
16As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and lighting on him.
but it as well as many other passages are argued, how can he come "out of the water" if he was not immersed?0 -
I believe, and was baptised by full submersionunder the water and in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. 0 -
Matt. 3:16 says nothing about immersion. It says Jesus came out of the water immediately after baptism. Nothing about mode. And as far as baptism meaning immersion, in the Old testament it doesn't. It talks in several places about the priests being baptized by sprinkling and pouring to purify themselves before entering the temple.
quote:how can he come "out of the water" if he was not immersed?
I "come out of the water" when I have been trout fishing. Hopefully, I haven't been immersed!0 -
"Show me the passage in Scripture where it says that Jesus was immersed. It ain't there."
In the New testament, Jesus' resurrection was accomplished from a point of burial. He was buried. He was resurrected from that tomb, that place of burial.
"Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?'
'Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.'
'For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:" Romans 6:3-5
If you can call being put to death, a sprinkling. If you can call being buried, a sprinkling. If you can plant something by the passage of a sprinkling of water on it. If the river Jordan was a tiny waterfall where sprinkling occurred and one could not be immersed. If you can be resurrected from a sprinkling.
Then yes, you can be sprinkled instead of baptized. But Jesus' death was His baptism. And his death culminated in the ground, in a tomb, buried. He was resurrected from that tomb in the ground, not from from a spring shower, or even a hard rain.
What baptism does for us, can only be accomplished by a burial. In the case of our burial, it is in water. Immersion is burial. Burial is immersion. Sprinkling is, uh, sprinkling.
"That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death.'
'If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead." Phillipians 3:10-11.
If we are to conform to his death, so that we might attain the same resurrection, we must be buried, not sprinkled, for in death, He was buried.
"Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead." Colossians 2:12
We must be buried with him in baptism. It does not say, "Sprinkled with him in baptism".
In order to understand a biblical concept, in which many scriptures combine to reveal the truth....you must read and study every single one of those scriptures. And you must be able to reconcile every one of them, with every other one of them. In respect to baptism, immersion is the only way this can be done.
And this process is not biblical 'interpretation', for no scripture is of any private interpretation, "Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation". 2 Peter 1:20
Rather, the scripture must be rightly 'divided', not interpreted, "Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." 2 Timothy 2:15
The process I mentioned above, the studying of all the scriptures, and the particular study of those that specially pertain to your subject, is rightly dividing the word of truth.
Sahagan0 -
quote:Originally posted by iluvguns
Matt. 3:16 says nothing about immersion. It says Jesus came out of the water immediately after baptism. Nothing about mode. And as far as baptism meaning immersion, in the Old testament it doesn't. It talks in several places about the priests being baptized by sprinkling and pouring to purify themselves beforeentering the temple.
quote:how can he come "out of the water" if he was not immersed?
I "come out of the water" when I have been trout fishing. Hopefully, I haven't been immersed!
Again, Strong's Concordance: Page 16 Greek dictionary # 911
#946;#945;#960;#964;#953;#769;#950;#969;
baptizo#772;
bap-tid'-zo
From a derivative of G911; to make whelmed (that is, fully wet); used only (in the New testament) of ceremonial immersion , especially (technically) of the ordinance of Christian baptism: - baptist, baptize, wash.
Baptize simply means to immerse. It's like this, if wrote "I fired my rifle" would you then say "but you didn't say specifically that you shot it, only that you fired it" It just means the same exact thing. If you are not comfortable with this, then I will say no more about it. Respectfully said of course.0 -
"Sahagan,
Do you also practice communion? If so, do you also wash feet as commanded? Just curious. I often wonder why this practice is overlooked by so many... especially Baptists."
Foot washing is introduced as a New testament church activity in John chapter 13, and to allow Jesus to sum it up, "Ye call me Master and Lord: and ye say well; for so I am.'
'If I then, your Lord and Master, have washed your feet; ye also ought to wash one another's feet.'
'For I have given you an example, that ye should do as I have done to you." John 13:13-15
Paul also mentions foot washing in his first letter to Timothy, "Well reported of for good works; if she have brought up children, if she have lodged strangers, if she have washed the saints' feet..." 1 Timothy 5:10
But lots of folks put foot washing in the same category where we find the commandment for women to wear head coverings during church meetings. And without quoting the whole long passage (1 Corinthians 11:3-16) Paul sums it up, making it, as foot washing (according to some), an activity of the church, not a commandment, with these words, "But if any man seem to be contentious, we have no such custom, neither the churches of God." 1 Corinthians 3:16
In other words, do it, or don't do it, just don't argue about it, don't judge others on it, and above all, don't alienate other brethren on the basis of it.
And to answer your questions fully and personally, yes, I do celebrate the Lord's supper, and yes, I have practiced foot washing. Although currently, the church we attend doesn't practice foot washing. And I'm not planning on being contentious about it.
Sahagan0 -
sav99...I'm not uncomfortable with it. I enjoy it. I am at home now. Took the son deer hunting today and am wore out. When I get to the office tomorrow and get my Greek NT, I will tell you specifically what it says. I can't recall exactly from memory. What I do have a problem with is people and churches who are so dogmatic that they will not accept another view, and condone a person for a view they *think* is wrong. One more thing though...water was a valuable commodity in Palestine (still is today). The Jordan is not much more than a creek lots of the year, and sometimes dried up completely. You wouldn't *waste* what you had baptizing with it. You would make do symbolically with what you had. Anyway...have a great night. I'm going to bed! [;)] 0 -
G'night Pstr. [:)] 0 -
full submersion, once under for the father, once for the son and once for the holy ghost, each time seemed a little longer. 0 -
quote:The Jordan is not much more than a creek lots of the year, and sometimes dried up completely.
Now, I can't state for sure, but my mother visited Israel several years ago, and was baptized (immersed) in the Jordan. She didn't say anything about there not being enough water.0 -
quote:Originally posted by 1911a1fan
i did not ask what anyone believes what requirement there was for salvation, the question was HOW where you baptized if in fact you where, it doesn't matter what you have done since for salvation, and there is no correct answer so i did not know the answer already, there is only answer of what a person believes, if you do not believe in water baptism then that would be your answer, no sarcasm required
let me ask it again
what form of baptism do you believe in, Jesus name, father/son/holy spirit, sprinkle, etc.?
i don't see a thing in that question about what you believe in for salvation
I took this question as "what form of baptism do you believe in" and "why is it important one way vs. another". My mistake.
quote:Originally posted by 1911a1fan
what form of baptism do you believe in, Jesus name, father/son/holy spirit, sprinkle, etc.?
why is it important one way vs. another
quote:Originally posted by 1911a1fan
maybe that is what enabled you to be 1 of the 2 who are able to answer the question correctly[:)]
I took this to mean "maybe that is what enabled you to be 1 of the 2 who are able to answer the question correctly[:)]". My mistake.0 -
quote:Originally posted by SahaganBeta
In other words, do it, or don't do it, just don't argue about it, don't judge others on it, and above all, don't alienate other brethren on the basis of it.
I agree wholeheartedly. It also applies to baptism.0 -
1911a1fan, even if you don't mean what you say, say what you mean. [;)] [:D] 0 -
quote:Originally posted by JamesRK
1911a1fan, even if you don't mean what you say, say what you mean. [;)] [:D]
you mean you still don't understand the questions?0 -
quote:Originally posted by 1911a1fan
quote:Originally posted by JamesRK
1911a1fan, even if you don't mean what you say, say what you mean. [;)] [:D]
you mean you still don't understand the questions?
Evidently, that's pretty much what I mean. [?]0 -
quote:but my mother visited Israel several years ago, and was baptized (immersed) in the Jordan. She didn't say anything about there not being enough water.
WHen we were there in 1999, I was also baptized in the Jordan, by pouring (even though I had been baptized previously, also by pouring [;)] ). The fine folks there who run what really amount to "tourist traps" today, along with the government, who understands that tourism is their bread and butter, aren't about to let the Jordan get low enough that you can't immerse in it today. Read up on the geography and history of the area back when John the Baptist was doing his thing.0 -
It is amazing after reading through all of these posts, on the whole outlook of our Christianity. Any of us Christians seem to agree that, no matter what denomination, believe, no matter what the name is on the house, it is the house of our God. We are priveleged to be able to speak of our heavenly father, his son, Jesus, and the holy ghost, with out peing persecuted.
I was baptized in a swimming pool by immersion, on a Sunday school picnic. The ceremony was done by my grandfather, the late Rev. Stanton(which I share that middle name) Virts. He was the pastor of the Assembly of God, here in my home town for 34 years. I truly miss the old fashiond Pentecostal fire he breathed and exhaled in his sermons.
Amen,
Best0 -
quote:Originally posted by JamesRK
quote:Originally posted by 1911a1fan
quote:Originally posted by JamesRK
1911a1fan, even if you don't mean what you say, say what you mean. [;)] [:D]
you mean you still don't understand the questions?
Evidently, that's pretty much what I mean. [?]
JamesRK, you're not alone. I found the question to be unclear also.[?]
The Bible uses multiple baptism phrases, such as;
baptism by Holy Spirit
baptism by water
baptism by fire
Never is a method to do this described. However the act of obedience and surrender is. The method is totally unimportant.
Just as a Communion is practiced in different styles, a shared cup, wine or juice, bread or wafer, intinction or portioned... the symbolic act is still an act of obedience. Jesus clearly said for example to wash each others feet, shared the bread and share the cup. Three seperate acts. Do this to remember me, He said. Out of convenience and custom we adopt a more abreviated stye.
Is there a right or wrong way? One should be careful when saying there is only one way or another isn't as meaningful. Only Pharisees would bother worrying about such details, by thinking the value is in the ceremony and not the intent of the worshippers.0 -
quote:Is there a right or wrong way? One should be careful when saying there is only one way or another isn't as meaningful. Only Pharisees would bother worrying about such details, by thinking the value is in the ceremony and not the intent of the worshippers
AMEN AMEN AND AMEN! Again, the church I pastor practices pouring or sprinkling, but I have immersed people who wanted that. I do explain our reasoning on sprinkling or pouring before I immerse them, but if that is what they want, that's ok. It's not the water that saves. That is just an external symbol, and if nothing has happened internally, it doesn't matter anyway. Baptism is NOT required for salvation. It is important, but not necessary.
This will be a long post, but I do want to post where we get our ideas on the mode. Again, we accept any mode. But our preferred mode is pouring or sprinkling, because it best represents what we believe baptism represnts: THe outpouring of the Holy Spirit upon a person when they accept Christ. Anyway...The Law states that the first covenant was sealed by sprinkling (Ex. 24:3-8; Lev. 14:7; Num. 8:7). Isaiah ways the Messiah will sprinkle (52:15). Irregardless of what some people will tell you, the word "immersion" does not appear in the Bible. In Mat. 3:6, it says that John was baptizing "IN" the Jordan. Does that mean immersion? If so, people were immersed IN the wilderness (Mark 1:4), IN Bethany (John 1:28), and IN Enon (John 3:23). John compares his baptism to the baptism of the Holy Spirit (Matt. 3:11-12) 1 Peter 1:2 speaks of the "sprinkling of the blood of Jesus. In Acts 16'33, the Philippian jailer was baptized IN the house. Where could you have immersed IN the house? Bath tubs weren't in the house. Acts 22:16 Paul was baptized in the house where he was staying. Again, what in the house is large enough to immerse someone in? Acts 2 gives an account of Pentecost. 2:15 says it was about 9 AM when Peter was preaching. 2:41 says there were 3000 who believed and were baptized. If all 12 apostles were baptizing, where in Jerusalem would there be 12 places in the city to immerse? There aren't 12 places in OLd Jerusalem to immerse. 10 AM to 5 PM is 7 hours, or 420 minutes. If all 12 were baptizing and it took 2 minutes on the average to baptize, that would be 360 per hour or 2520 in 7 hours - NON STOP! That just isn't reasonable.
ANyway...pick a mode you like and believe in, accept Christ, and do it. The water is just water...plain old H2O.
If anyone wants to open another can of worms, we also baptize infants. [:D]0 -
quote:Originally posted by iluvguns
If anyone wants to open another can of worms, we also baptize infants. [:D]
Do you then re baptize them once they receive Jesus and get saved?
For the record, I was not water baptized until two years had passed after I was saved. The Lord Himself told me to it.0 -
Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. 0 -
quote:what form of baptism do you believe in
Actually 1911 you did not asked how anyone was baptized, you asked what form we believe in, not at all the same.
As for me I was never baptized, and don't believe I will be.0 -
quote:Originally posted by MVP
Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but hethat believeth not shall be damned.
Notice the emphasis here on "believe" and not on water baptize. Which implies that believing and being baptized go hand in hand versus baptism being a requirement for salvation.
"Believe" here does not simply mean an opinion, rather it represents a choice to except by faith. From the Greek translation:
G4100 pg.70
pisteuo;
pist-yoo'-o
From G4102; to have faith (in, upon, or with respect to, a person or thing), that is, credit; by implication to entrust (especially one's spiritual well being to Christ): - believe (-r), commit (to trust), put in trust with.0 -
All right, I will throw my two cents in. I normally don't for this type of topic, but I will this time.
First of all, most of you speak of saving or accepting God as something that you do. Let me tell you, that there is nothing that you can do, no work, no act, nothing that will allow you to enter the kingdom of Heaven, although there are plenty of things that we can do to lose it. We are saved by grace alone. We don't let God into our hearts. He is there when we are born. The choice that we make is to let him dwell there, or kick him out. That's it.
As far as baptism is concerned, the water is symbolic. What actually happens during baptism is that you are immersed in the holy spirit. We baptise infants. The reason is that when immersed in the Holy Spirit, they are cleansed of the original sin that they are born with. We baptise in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.
Since someone brought up Communion, I will ask this question. Do you give Communion to anyone. If so, you may want to re-read the Book of 1st Corinthians again.
That's it. I am done now.0 -
quote:Originally posted by He Dog
quote:what form of baptism do you believe in
Actually 1911 you did not asked how anyone was baptized, you asked what form we believe in, not at all the same.
As for me I was never baptized, and don't believe I will be.
if someone truly believes in baptism they typically don't put it off till their death bed it's not something you procrastinate about regardless of the method if you are a believer0 -
quote:Do you then re baptize them once they receive Jesus and get saved?
Nope. There is this thing called "prevening grace" or "the grace that comes before." Before the child is aware of God, God is aware of the child, loves the child, and died for the sins of that child. It is, just like adult baptism, a symbol. And a pledge made not only by the parents, but by the entire church, that they will do what they can to raise that child in a godly manner ("raise up a child in the way he should go" kinda thing). When that child baptized as an infant reaches the "age of acountability" then they accept for themselves the promise of God and accept what their parents loved them enough for in the beginning of their lives to do for them. See, we don't believe that a child dying in infancy goes to hell, as some denominations. Until they reach that "age", then they are under God's care for all eternity. What is that "age?" I don't know. It is different with each child. In my experience, sometimes as young as 6-8, or maybe 12-14. Maybe, due to mental issues, they NEVER reach it. But God loves them irregardless.0 -
We agree on the points that you just stated for the most. Exception being that we Christen/Dedicate (sp) a baby and not baptize him or her. Then upon salvation, at what ever age that may be that the individual excepts Christ, we then water baptize. Other than that, we agree completely.
By the way, did you get my e mail regarding the E-Sword download?0 -
quote:By the way, did you get my e mail regarding the E-Sword download?
Yes, thanks very much! Haven't had time to do much other than glance at it. Busy day. And tonight the men at church are cooking the dinner for our kids ministry. We are serving breakfast, and I gotta get busy frying sausage!0 -
On the day of pentecost they asked the desciples what they were supposed to do.
and Peter answered them.
What do you guys think?
Act 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
Act 2:37 Now when they heard [this], they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men [and] brethren, what shall we do?
Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, [even] as many as the Lord our God shall call.
Act 2:40 ? And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
Act 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added [unto them] about three thousand souls.0 -
Also can some one show me where anyone was ever babtized in the titles Father, Son and Holy Ghost in the new testament?
Every Babtizm I am seeing is performed as Babtized in Jesus name.0
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