welfare part II
How interesting that so many of us know a person or two who has used the welfare system as it was supposed to be used, a short-term program to get through hard times, and many, many people who treat it as a life-long "occupation." How interesting, too, that although trillions of dollars have flowed SE DC, most of West Virginia, Appalachia, and many other poor parts of the country, all those areas are still miserable, poverty-filled hell holes. I think that shows us quite well how the program is working.
And let's be honest, SSDI is welfare. Plain and simple. It's money the government gives a person. You can talk until you're blue in the face about all the money you contributed and how you're just getting that back, but the average person gets back all his contributions and interest in about 3 or 4 years. I don't know how long the average person is on disability, but I bet it's one heck of a lot longer than that.
Our government has turned into an income redistribution machine. It takes money from people who work hard and gives it to people who "can't" and won't work. My wife and I do without a lot. We take very few vacations, don't own fancy things, and we drive old cars. We do so so we can save for medical problems and retirement. Other people blow their cash or simply choose not to work. And guess who is going to have to pay whom.
If you can't take care of yourself then it is time for you to die. Yes, to die. If you don't, you just become a parasite. Somehow America has gone from a land of hard working people who suffered in silence and who would be ashamed to take a handout to a bunch of lazy slobs who feel entitled to stick their grubby hands into other peoples' wallets.
And let's be honest, SSDI is welfare. Plain and simple. It's money the government gives a person. You can talk until you're blue in the face about all the money you contributed and how you're just getting that back, but the average person gets back all his contributions and interest in about 3 or 4 years. I don't know how long the average person is on disability, but I bet it's one heck of a lot longer than that.
Our government has turned into an income redistribution machine. It takes money from people who work hard and gives it to people who "can't" and won't work. My wife and I do without a lot. We take very few vacations, don't own fancy things, and we drive old cars. We do so so we can save for medical problems and retirement. Other people blow their cash or simply choose not to work. And guess who is going to have to pay whom.
If you can't take care of yourself then it is time for you to die. Yes, to die. If you don't, you just become a parasite. Somehow America has gone from a land of hard working people who suffered in silence and who would be ashamed to take a handout to a bunch of lazy slobs who feel entitled to stick their grubby hands into other peoples' wallets.
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I am surprise how few people see it that way. I mean, what does it take to actually see things in this perspective... Not too complicated. 0 -
Notice I said that I would like what I have paid in back, and I will opt out.
No one in my close family,...........those close enough to be SURE of, has ever gotten any "benefit" from the Gov, other than collecting their SS, and most didn't get it long enough to get their money back.
Interest,.........that is a joke!![:D][:D]
SS generates about a 1.5 to 2% return,..........I can do better than that by over 3X without even thinking. A bit of wise investing, I can pound the hell out of it.
I simply would like my 15.24% that I have been paying for 16 years, and the 7.65% before back,...........they can keep the employer contribution before having my own business, and I will sign anything to get out of it. Ya think I will get a chance to do that?[;)]0 -
quote:If you can't take care of yourself then it is time for you to die. Yes, to die. If you don't, you just become a parasite.
So, we should clean out the nursing homes, assisted living homes, MHMR group homes and facilities, Alzheimer's treatment homes, etc, and just kill all those people?
That sure sounds like something Der Fuhrer would say. And do. And did. No offense.0 -
quote:Originally posted by nunn
quote:If you can't take care of yourself then it is time for you to die. Yes, to die. If you don't, you just become a parasite.
So, we should clean out the nursing homes, assisted living homes, MHMR group homes and facilities, Alzheimer's treatment homes, etc, and just kill all those people?
That sure sounds like something Der Fuhrer would say. And do. And did. No offense.
You just lost the argument by bring up nazi s--t.0 -
You need to blame FDR for starting us down the road to where we are, and confiscating working folks money.
Churches, and FAMILIES,........used to take care of the ones that really needed help, now it is the government.0 -
quote:Originally posted by Marc1301
You need to blame FDR for starting us down the road to where we are, and confiscating working folks money.
Churches, and FAMILIES,........used to take care of the ones that really needed help, now it is the government.
Yup. Funny how this works, there was a pool while back on politicalcrossfire forum about who people think were 3 greatest presidents. Almost everyone put FDR in top 3. Interesting, isn't it?0 -
My parents were on welfare for a very short period (about 4 years) during which time both of my parents were going to school, working, and raising us kids. When they got off welfare, they both had degrees. Dad had an accociates degree in Precision Inspection in Welding and Mom had a bachellor of science degree in Vocational Rehab, and was in the process of finishing her masters degree in the same. 0 -
quote:You just lost the argument by bring up nazi s--t
I think not. That other feller blew it by spouting Nazi (and Commie)ideology.0 -
quote:Originally posted by nunn
quote:You just lost the argument by bring up nazi s--t
I think not. That other feller blew it by spouting Nazi (and Commie)ideology.
Actually, you did, not him. He's only spouting pure capitalism ideology of self-reliance. You somehow got to "let's kill the weak". Where exactly do you see "If you can't take care of yourself then it is time for you to die." nazi/commie ideology here? Or are you saying it's my responsibility to take care of everyone who can't or don't want to do it themselves? What about me and my family? Are you going to pay for me when I am old? Or your children or grandchildren? No, don't see what's wrong with your way of thinking and right with what "that other feller" is saying?0 -
quote:Originally posted by Zulu7
My parents were on welfare for a very short period (about 4 years) during which time both of my parents were going to school, working, and raising us kids. When they got off welfare, they both had degrees. Dad had an accociates degree in Precision Inspection in Welding and Mom had a bachellor of science degree in Vocational Rehab, and was in the process of finishing her masters degree in the same.
Here is where the "argument" lies unfortunately. Zulu, don't take this the wrong way, as I honor your service to this country,...........I'm just explaining where the thoughts come from.
There was a time, when folks in your parents situation, would have had to rely on family, or third parties, such as religious institutions for help.
Obviously it seems they turned something bad into something good. I am happy for that.
But,...........many feel that people that have children, before they are financially able to provide for them, should have used better thought processes.
In a nutshell,.......your parents took money from other folks pockets, that didn't give it willingly, to get by, due to their "mistakes", and inability to do it on their own.
Just trying to explain folks feelings about this subject,.........and this is by no means, an attack on you, or your parents.
Glad everything worked out, and they were off of it quick. If most did that, I don't believe there would be the anger that there is about this subject.
The facts are, we used to be "self-sustaining", and that has changed.[;)]0 -
quote:Originally posted by Marc1301
quote:Originally posted by Zulu7
My parents were on welfare for a very short period (about 4 years) during which time both of my parents were going to school, working, and raising us kids. When they got off welfare, they both had degrees. Dad had an accociates degree in Precision Inspection in Welding and Mom had a bachellor of science degree in Vocational Rehab, and was in the process of finishing her masters degree in the same.
Here is where the "argument" lies unfortunately. Zulu, don't take this the wrong way, as I honor your service to this country,...........I'm just explaining where the thoughts come from.
There was a time, when folks in your parents situation, would have had to rely on family, or third parties, such as religious institutions for help.
Obviously it seems they turned something bad into something good. I am happy for that.
But,...........many feel that people that have children, before they are financially able to provide for them, should have used better thought processes.
In a nutshell,.......your parents took money from other folks pockets, that didn't give it willingly, to get by, due to their "mistakes", and inability to do it on their own.
Just trying to explain folks feelings about this subject,.........and this is by no means, an attack on you, or your parents.
Glad everything worked out, and they were off of it quick. If most did that, I don't believe there would be the anger that there is about this subject.
The facts are, we used to be "self-sustaining", and that has changed.[;)]
i really dont care either way, but without we would just have people dieng in the streets, we would slowly turn into a third worls country. people on welfare are at least getting some money, and im sure that deters at least some of them from having to do other things for money. Please donate to the Anti me robbing you fund.0 -
"...it's time to die..." A direct quote.
Now, since the instinct of self-preservation is strong in most humans, very few are going to volunteer to die, even if they are no longer productive. Now, since most of those who need to die will not volunteer to do so, how do you and mlincoln propose disposing of these useless creatures?
A long time ago, I heard a Chinese story about a man, his son, and his father. The old man, the grandpa, got old, and unable to contribute to the family anymore. His son decided that, since Grandpa wasn't worth his rice ration anymore. So he prepared a litter, and put Grandpa on it. Then he had his son help him carry Grandpa far off into the wilderness, presumably to starve or be killed by wild animals. They set the litter down. Dad turned and headed toward home. Son helped Grandpa off the litter, then folded it up, and carrying the empty litter, started off after Dad. Dad turned and asked Son why he was bringing the litter back. Son replied, "My son and I will need it when you become old and useless."
Dad and Son put Grandpa back on the litter and took him home.
I don't like welfare rats, but in any society there has to be room for some charity.0 -
quote:i really dont care either way, but without we would just have people dieng in the streets, we would slowly turn into a third worls country. people on welfare are at least getting some money, and im sure that deters at least some of them from having to do other things for money. Please donate to the Anti me robbing you fund.
Suburban,........you obviously didn't get my point. I was trying to explain where the "feelings" come from!
You are too young to remember what I am talking about in terms of the families, and churches, taking care of what the government does now. No anger from me![;)]0 -
i understand what you mean about the families and churches helping people. Just because im young doesnt mean i cant read. 0 -
Obviously a bit of anger in your response,........too bad.
Do you know how much welfare fraud there is,..........any idea?
The people on the streets that you are referring to, often sell their foodstamps for pennies on the dollar, so they can buy drugs, and booze,.........are you in favor of that? Is that something that you, or I should have to pay for?
As far as the "Anti Me robbing you fund",........that is why I am armed and carry.[;)]0 -
quote:Originally posted by Marc1301
quote:Originally posted by Zulu7
My parents were on welfare for a very short period (about 4 years) during which time both of my parents were going to school, working, and raising us kids. When they got off welfare, they both had degrees. Dad had an accociates degree in Precision Inspection in Welding and Mom had a bachellor of science degree in Vocational Rehab, and was in the process of finishing her masters degree in the same.
Here is where the "argument" lies unfortunately. Zulu, don't take this the wrong way, as I honor your service to this country,...........I'm just explaining where the thoughts come from.
There was a time, when folks in your parents situation, would have had to rely on family, or third parties, such as religious institutions for help.
Obviously it seems they turned something bad into something good. I am happy for that.
But,...........many feel that people that have children, before they are financially able to provide for them, should have used better thought processes.
In a nutshell,.......your parents took money from other folks pockets, that didn't give it willingly, to get by, due to their "mistakes", and inability to do it on their own.
Just trying to explain folks feelings about this subject,.........and this is by no means, an attack on you, or your parents.
Glad everything worked out, and they were off of it quick. If most did that, I don't believe there would be the anger that there is about this subject.
The facts are, we used to be "self-sustaining", and that has changed.[;)]
"your parents took money from other folks pockets, that didn't give it willingly,"
This is a key point in the discusion.
Rick0 -
So if you could eliminate[:0] all cheaters from the system.How big a taxreduction would that add up to 0.007 % less tax for all ? 0 -
You guys should go read "Logan's Run" - the book, not the movie or TV show.
It is strange how quickly attitudes change when one is put in an unfortunate position.
How about medical care for injured or sick children of young families whose parents haven't had the TIME to save to give them care ??
It seems that, to me anyway, you are totally discounting all the money I have contributed to my medical and retirement funds over the years.
May I please have my money back, with a decent ROI ??
It will be my pleasure to get off the gubmint teat, if you'll do that.
I think a good decent return would just be, oh, say, a percentage equal to 90 percent of the increase in the DJ, since 1958.
You bet I'll give back what I've been paid.
And I'll have a pretty damn nice ranch, 2 or 3 cars, a boat, and a hell of a lot more horses.
I understand your frustration, and I really do agree with you from a philosophical perspective, but it isn't going to happen until and unless the Revolution succeeds.
Doug0 -
most people think this way until something unfortunate happens to them. i have worked hard all my life, and i don't mind helping those that are truly disabled , sick, or old. what pisses me off is to see young people who are able bodied, cash a disibility check while driving a brand new car and proceed to the store and buy steak with food stamps while i buy hamburger.[V] 0 -
quote:Originally posted by tomahawk
most people think this way until something unfortunate happens to them. i have worked hard all my life, and i don't mind helping those that are truly disabled , sick, or old. what pisses me off is to see young people who are able bodied, cash a disibility check while driving a brand new car and proceed to the store and buy steak with food stamps while i buy hamburger.[V]
+1,.......I believe once again, I have been misunderstood, even with all of the points in my responses. People often don't really read what is there,......they take what they want to , and form an opinion. I feel much like you do,......without the fraud that takes place.0 -
Welfare is now a short term thing.
The big thing here in Appalachia, especially across the river in West Virginia; is getting big settlements for workers comp and then adding SSI disability for life to the pile.
That income provides a trailer on five acres, Dish net work with HBO a few cartons of smokes, some vittles from Wal-mart. Cheap beer, two cases a week, 1/2 tank of gas in a 15 year old car or truck and some walmart clothes every six to eight months.
With the health card from the state all the kids (four or five, all dirty) are free to be born and get free medical. Mom is about 350 pounds now and can't walk too well. SHe will be on SSI soon too. That will help dad with the beer bill.
It is a full time job getting on SSI and the Lawyers buy full page adds in the local phone books.0 -
Anyone have any REAL solutions to offer ??
I liked the "workfare" concept, if we need to continue the socialization of the process.
As far as SS Disability, I think more emphasis should be put on fraud enforcement. I have heard that it sometimes takes years for people to get on it, because they have to get attorneys to fight for them - the attorneys, by the way, are paid by the gubmint. Kinda like betting against your own money in a poker game.
Because of the nature of my disabilities, I received my first payment on the first day I could have, with no delays at all.
Doug0 -
Doug,........I hope that you read ALL of my posts, on both threads. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by Marc1301
quote:Originally posted by Zulu7
My parents were on welfare for a very short period (about 4 years) during which time both of my parents were going to school, working, and raising us kids. When they got off welfare, they both had degrees. Dad had an accociates degree in Precision Inspection in Welding and Mom had a bachellor of science degree in Vocational Rehab, and was in the process of finishing her masters degree in the same.
Here is where the "argument" lies unfortunately. Zulu, don't take this the wrong way, as I honor your service to this country,...........I'm just explaining where the thoughts come from.
There was a time, when folks in your parents situation, would have had to rely on family, or third parties, such as religious institutions for help.
Obviously it seems they turned something bad into something good. I am happy for that.
But,...........many feel that people that have children, before they are financially able to provide for them, should have used better thought processes.
In a nutshell,.......your parents took money from other folks pockets, that didn't give it willingly, to get by, due to their "mistakes", and inability to do it on their own.
Just trying to explain folks feelings about this subject,.........and this is by no means, an attack on you, or your parents.
Glad everything worked out, and they were off of it quick. If most did that, I don't believe there would be the anger that there is about this subject.
The facts are, we used to be "self-sustaining", and that has changed.[;)]
One thing you need to realize is that my parents were financially responsible and well off when I was born and for a few years later. It wasn't until my dad was seasonally laid-off from the railroad and not rehired the next spring, and couldn't get another job that paid as well that they ran into trouble. Both sets of grandparents helped them out as much as they could afford to.0 -
Mark - I don't think you and I have any essential disagreement ??
Doug0 -
Zulu,.......that is what it was meant for!
I doubt many would have a problem with that,.......not me for certain![8D]
Doug,......we have no disagreement,.......just wanted everything I had said to be understood, as I know your situation, or at least I believe I do.[;)]
EVERYONE hates fraud, and deadbeats, that make a "lifestyle" out of the system, at least I believe those here do. That is the end of my commentary!0 -
If you want to see welfare abuse reduced it needs to be run like the WIC progam. In the WIC program you can only purchase basic foods and ingrediants and lower cost brands of them. You cant purchase soft drinks, junk food, deli food, ect... If someone is needy they will be glad to have things like a gallon of milk, cheese, peanut butter, bread, eggs, oatmeal, unsweet cerial, ect... The welfare bums for the most part only use it because they can buy whatever they want from junk food and sodas to deli food and tv dinners. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by 1776-1976
If you want to see welfare abuse reduced it needs to be run like the WIC progam. In the WIC program you can only purchase basic foods and ingrediants and lower cost brands of them. You cant purchase soft drinks, junk food, deli food, ect... If someone is needy they will be glad to have things like a gallon of milk, cheese, peanut butter, bread, eggs, oatmeal, unsweet cerial, ect... The welfare bums for the most part only use it because they can buy whatever they want from junk food and sodas to deli food and tv dinners.
Wic is a good program, when i worked at a gracery store, this mexican woman was trying to buy candy with her wic check, she said "the other cashier lets me do it", No dice here lady!0 -
quote:Originally posted by SuburbanNoize
quote:Originally posted by Marc1301
quote:Originally posted by Zulu7
My parents were on welfare for a very short period (about 4 years) during which time both of my parents were going to school, working, and raising us kids. When they got off welfare, they both had degrees. Dad had an accociates degree in Precision Inspection in Welding and Mom had a bachellor of science degree in Vocational Rehab, and was in the process of finishing her masters degree in the same.
Here is where the "argument" lies unfortunately. Zulu, don't take this the wrong way, as I honor your service to this country,...........I'm just explaining where the thoughts come from.
There was a time, when folks in your parents situation, would have had to rely on family, or third parties, such as religious institutions for help.
Obviously it seems they turned something bad into something good. I am happy for that.
But,...........many feel that people that have children, before they are financially able to provide for them, should have used better thought processes.
In a nutshell,.......your parents took money from other folks pockets, that didn't give it willingly, to get by, due to their "mistakes", and inability to do it on their own.
Just trying to explain folks feelings about this subject,.........and this is by no means, an attack on you, or your parents.
Glad everything worked out, and they were off of it quick. If most did that, I don't believe there would be the anger that there is about this subject.
The facts are, we used to be "self-sustaining", and that has changed.[;)]
i really dont care either way, but without we would just have people dieng in the streets, we would slowly turn into a third worls country. people on welfare are at least getting some money, and im sure that deters at least some of them from having to do other things for money. Please donate to the Anti me robbing you fund.
Have you seen alot of those welfare turds? I deal with them all the time here in Houston. They have babies to make more money from the goverment. They murder each other constantly money or no money. The most shocking thing is they feel they are owed more!!
Here I am working everyday and live a decent life money wise. I know having another kid would tighten things up to much where I wouldn't be able to provide if something went wrong. So more then likely I'll never be able to have a son because some piece of trash mooch is commiting open fraud with nobody giving a crap.
Please donate to the anti robbing fund? Damn right I'll donate, I'll donate a bleening .45 hollow point. [:(!]0 -
As I said before: Hopefully, nothing will happen in your life that makes you see your flawed thinking".
I could go on with a story here as to how and why I ended up on SSDI, that would sound like an "As the World Turns" episode, but I seriously doubt it would change your mind anyway.
Long story short: there are many circumstances that can figure in to why/how some have ended up like this, and many times has a damn little to do with how "responsible" they are/were.
I guess I could say I ended up like this because I was too resposible.0
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