"Strip search:
what the hell is wrong with these cops
"Strip search: "This is a standard procedure and she was a resistor.""
This is disturbing to watch. I'm surprised it wasn't picked up by the national media. At least they didn't taser the lady. What is going on in this country that excuses can even be made for this sort of thing? What's with the skinhead county police? Most of the police I've known have been regular neighbors. Just coincidence probably but Stark County, Ohio, where this occurred, is where Diebold has it's headquarters. Thank goodness, the local news reporters were doing their job and our laws still allow them to do so.
Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1yUsYIk2EM&feature=related
Follow uphttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQ6Lsqmf9yM
_______________________________________________
There is no evidence that Blackwater trained this police department but it is curious that even the Iowa DNR has received some Blackwater training. http://www.infowars.com/articles/ps/blackwater_training_us_police.htm
"Strip search: "This is a standard procedure and she was a resistor.""
This is disturbing to watch. I'm surprised it wasn't picked up by the national media. At least they didn't taser the lady. What is going on in this country that excuses can even be made for this sort of thing? What's with the skinhead county police? Most of the police I've known have been regular neighbors. Just coincidence probably but Stark County, Ohio, where this occurred, is where Diebold has it's headquarters. Thank goodness, the local news reporters were doing their job and our laws still allow them to do so.
Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1yUsYIk2EM&feature=relatedFollow up
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQ6Lsqmf9yM_______________________________________________
There is no evidence that Blackwater trained this police department but it is curious that even the Iowa DNR has received some Blackwater training. http://www.infowars.com/articles/ps/blackwater_training_us_police.htm
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1911a1fan, did you know that a bunch of the policies and procedures you disapprove of came from the ACLU by way of Judges? 0 -
quote:Originally posted by JamesRK
1911a1fan, did you know that a bunch of the policies and procedures you disapprove of came from the ACLU by way of Judges?
well right there should throw up a red flag0 -
"A while back you said you shoot hunting dogs for hunting"
James, i did not say i shot hunting dogs for hunting......i would how ever shoot dogs running cattle around and ect......i have put down a couple of my own dogs for couple reasons.....but just not to kill something for the DAY..
most of the leos i have been around are not the most reputable people that walk this rock......one was screwing other women while married and very very abusive to his wife....he now sits in jail awaiting being tried for murder.....shot her in the head in bed while his daughter was sleeping beside her......another one here is screwing highschool girls while and is married he also abuses his authority.....need i go on with more?
I am sure that some are outstanding people .....but if have not personally met any yet.....there are a few here that i think might be good people.......I myself have not had a single infraction with the law......not even a speeding ticket!0 -
When Lt. Colonel Nguyen Ngoc Loan executed a captured VC assassin during the Tet Offensive in 1968 he was acting within policy and violated no laws as spies, assassins and the like have no protections under international agreement. But when Americans saw the brutality of him summarily executing a man with his hands tied behind his back the policy changed because we found such a thing intolerable.
Maybe mentally distraught prisoners are routinely thrown to the floor and manhandled, humiliated and physically abused in a manner that seems more appropriate for the Spanish Inquisition than it does for someone who is supposedly being protected from themselves, but after seeing that video I am horrified. Sorry if that makes me a sissy but I am outraged at what I saw. I think many people will feel the same way and that video may effect change in the way such prisoners are handled in the future just as the Vietnam execution photo brought change in the policy regarding how we and our allies treat prisoners of war. I can only hope.
I can only repeat what I said earlier. There HAS to be a better way to deal with these situations.0 -
http://www.nowpublic.com/crime/ohio-police-strip-search-gone-bad
Ohio Police: Strip Search Gone Bad
by Orato | February 5, 2008 at 07:07 pm | 320 views | add comment
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You have to watch the video that goes with this post - it's absolutely chilling. CLICK HERE FOR VIDEO
"Stark
County, Ohio police are under investigation over the use of excessive
force for strip-searching Hope Steffey. Yet, this is not the only case
in recent months of what is being deemed as an illegal strip-search.
The department is also facing accusations by three young teenage
girls ages 14, 15 and 16 that say that they too were illegally
strip-searched on May 18, 2007 for what the officers deemed as being
for "their own safety." (For further information:In Depth Coverage of the Incident)
But let's not stop there. A Stark County police officer is also up
for capital murder after he strangled his pregnant girlfriend to death,
rolled her body up in a rug, and then dumped her body some twenty miles
away. (For further information:Police Officer Murders Pregnant Girlfriend )
Could this be an out of control police department?"0 -
quote:Originally posted by gskyhawk
Could this be an out of control police department?"
Nope, sounds about right.0 -
quote:Originally posted by SaxonPig
When Lt. Colonel Nguyen Ngoc Loan executed a captured VC assassin during the Tet Offensive in 1968 he was acting within policy and violated no laws as spies, assassins and the like have no protections under international agreement. But when Americans saw the brutality of him summarily executing a man with his hands tied behind his back the policy changed because we found such a thing intolerable.
Maybe mentally distraught prisoners are routinely thrown to the floor and manhandled, humiliated and physically abused in a manner that seems more appropriate for the Spanish Inquisition than it does for someone who is supposedly being protected from themselves, but after seeing that video I am horrified. Sorry if that makes me a sissy but I am outraged at what I saw. I think many people will feel the same way and that video may effect change in the way such prisoners are handled in the future just as the Vietnam execution photo brought change in the policy regarding how we and our allies treat prisoners of war. I can only hope.
I can only repeat what I said earlier. There HAS to be a better way to deal with these situations.
very good comparison saxon thank you
never mind we have a 4th amendment that is disregarded with these "policies"0 -
Funny how all the LEOs have defended the barbaric actions of these guards/LEOs because they "have a hard job", "they deal w/the scum of society", "they're underpaid", "they have urine and feces" thrown at them, blah, blah, blah.
Well....If you can't take the heat...find another job.
That is no excuse to degrade OR violate someone's constitutional rights! If the pressures of the job is getting to you...DON'T take it out on society...DEAL with it. You made the choice to be a LEO.
Garbage men have a difficult job. It's smelly, hot/cold, it's dangerous...they're constantly dodging cars AND pitbulls.
Yet, that does not give the garbage men the right to beat the crap outta people or violate their rights, now does it?
Why should LEOs be any different???0 -
quote:Originally posted by dolfan
Funny how all the LEOs have defended the barbaric actions of these guards/LEOs because they "have a hard job", "they deal w/the scum of society", "they're underpaid", "they have urine and feces" thrown at them, blah, blah, blah.
Well....If you can't take the heat...find another job.
That is no excuse to degrade OR violate someone's constitutional rights! If the pressures of the job is getting to you...DON'T take it out on society...DEAL with it. You made the choice to be a LEO.
Garbage men have a difficult job. It's smelly, hot/cold, it's dangerous...they're constantly dodging cars AND pitbulls.
Yet, that does not give the garbage men the right to beat the crap outta people or violate their rights, now does it?
Why should LEOs be any different???
[:0]0 -
quote:Originally posted by nunn
By the way, the thread started about a "strip search," which this apparentlty was not. Strip searches are routine, and acceptable, and a way of maintaining jail security and safety.
As much as you might relish it, cop, strip searching a woman was not ALLOWED in that jail; the procedures spelled it out. There are lots of husbands who would be out cop hunting right now. And then people wonder why a citizen will walk into a city hall and shoot five people. I don't wonder why at all. And before you jump on your highhorse, I don't condone a vigilante, but I can sure see their reasons.
Clouder..0 -
I'm staying the hell out of this one....
And y'all complain about the Politics Forum being bad?0 -
I am sure the sheriff would gladly give up these procedures as long as he wuld be given immunity from civil actions for people that commit suicide while in his jail aa well as immunity from civil action for any weapon hidden in a persons body that is used to injure or kill another prisoner. 0 -
WC- The department is standing (hiding?) behind the claim that it wasn't a strip search, that it was part of a "suicide prevention."
But some (including me) would argue that the procedures are in effect the same thing and the same policies should apply.
I still think that scene was barbaric and something has to change.0 -
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Heck, let them all hang themselves. I really DON'T care. Let your sons and daughters who get arrested for minor charges end their lives over a minor embarrassment.
"There has to be a better way..." Sounds like the cry of a closet Democrat. WHAT is a better way?
Heck, let's let people smuggle all sorts of weapons and drugs into jail in their various orifices.
Let's just forget about jail security. How about we just close the jails and let the miscreants back out to plague all you folks who can't stand to see them mistreated?
Suits me. I will retire before this issue is settled anyway.0 -
yeah, this conversation has been around the same circle several times. I will be interested to see what the judge and jury have to say about it, but for now I'm done with it. That is unless we want to skip the judge and jury and just get a rope. String um up. 0 -
I hope none of you get put in jail, if you new the things that go on in there,you would be changing your attitudes.BTW I agree that this should not have happened, in reality it does! 0 -
quote:"Disciplinary Punishment," is what Foucault says is practiced in the modern era. Disciplinary punishment gives "professionals" (psychologists, programme facilitators, parole officers, etc.) power over the prisoner, most notably in that the prisoner's length of stay depends on the professionals' judgment
It's all about control. LEO's and their jailer minions are societies enforcers. They are there to control us. They are not our friend. That crazy POS Michel Foucault wrote about it in his book Discipline and Punishand hit the nail right on its head. The LEO's on GunBroker should get a copy.[;)]
quote:
Discipline and PunishMain article: Discipline and Punish
Discipline and Punish: The Birth of the Prison was translated into English in 1977, from the French Surveiller et punir: Naissance de la prison, published in 1975.
The book opens with a graphic description of the brutal public execution in 1757 of Robert-Fran?ois Damiens, who attempted to kill Louis XV. Against this it juxtaposes a colourless prison timetable from just over 80 years later. Foucault then inquires how such a change in French society's punishment of convicts could have developed in such a short time. These are snapshots of two contrasting types of Foucault's "Technologies of Punishment". The first type, "Monarchical Punishment", involves the repression of the populace through brutal public displays of executions and torture. The second, "Disciplinary Punishment," is what Foucault says is practiced in the modern era. Disciplinary punishment gives "professionals" (psychologists, programme facilitators, parole officers, etc.) power over the prisoner, most notably in that the prisoner's length of stay depends on the professionals' judgment.
Foucault also compares modern society with Jeremy Bentham's "Panopticon" design for prisons (which was unrealized in its original form, but nonetheless influential): in the Panopticon, a single guard can watch over many prisoners while the guard remains unseen. The dark dungeon of pre-modernity has been replaced with the bright modern prison, but Foucault cautions that "visibility is a trap". It is through this visibility, Foucault writes, that modern society exercises its controlling systems of power and knowledge (terms which Foucault believed to be so fundamentally connected that he often combined them in a single hyphenated concept, "power-knowledge"). Increasing visibility leads to power located on an increasingly individualized level, shown by the possibility for institutions to track individuals throughout their lives. Foucault suggests that a "carceral continuum" runs through modern society, from the maximum security prison, through secure accommodation, probation, social workers, police, and teachers, to our everyday working and domestic lives. All are connected by the (witting or unwitting) supervision (surveillance, application of norms of acceptable behaviour) of some humans by others.0 -
quote:Originally posted by nunn
quote:ok for the sake of argument lets just go with this as being "standard operating procedure"
IT NEEDS TO STOP NOW!
I reckon you have never found anyone in a cell hanging from his shirt or blue jeans. I have. It is not fun. [xx(] The suicidal impulse, at least in jail, is generally temporary, and if we can remove the opportunity until the impulse passes, then a life is saved.
I reckon in your world, suicide in jail is an acceptable thing?
As I have pointed out before, we work for you. If you don't like our policies and procedures, there are ways to get them changed. Hell, you can force us all to go unarmed and carry batons made of marshmallows if you want.
Still, I advise all of you to do your best to stay out of jail. It is an unpleasant place, and you cannot maintain your dignity there.
By the way, the thread started about a "strip search," which this apparentlty was not. Strip searches are routine, and acceptable, and a way of maintaining jail security and safety. That's why I suggested that you naysayers go and work for a correctional or detention facility for a while. You would be amazed at what people try to hide, and where, and what they can do with it once in the relative privacy of their cells. [:0]
So this falls under the logic of, "Even if it saves just one innocent life, isn't it all worth it?"
Gun banners use the same argument. [:(!]0 -
How about what they do in hospitals with patients who might hurt themselves? They are placed on gurneys with wrist and ankle restraints. They can't go anywhere, the restraints don't cause loss of circulation or other medical problems, and the patients can't hurt themselves or anyone else.
I sound like a Democrat because I think throwing distraught people to the floor and brutalizing them isn't the best way to keep them from harming themselves? So, a Republican would support continuing the practice seen on the video? This doesn't strike me a political issue, it's a human one.0 -
I find it interesting that people that are not willing to step up and become part of the solution are the loudest in crying "foul" here.
Fact A: It wasn't a "strip search". What it is: a highly edited video of a person resisting being placed in a safety cell.
Fact B: Male officers can assist the female officers in restraining (and vice-a-versa) for placement in a safety cell.
This subject has the odor of a beaten dead horse.
I will no longer post on this thread.0 -
I watched the video again and had my wife watch it also to get her opinion on it and she felt that if she was drunk, biligerant,refused to cooperate and stated suicidal tendencies the cops have every right to do what they did.
The male cops didnt strip her,they didnt even try to sneek a peek,they were simply holding her down while the females stripped her.As far as being in the cell naked for 6 hrs. that is standard procedure under a suicide watch.
Bottom line is,Dont act like a dink when in jail.The only question I have about it is why did she not recieve medical attention from the beginning and why no phone call.? Need the whole story and not some news station snippits.As far as the cop bashing goes,remember,cops are humans too and not all are created equal as I could say the same for some of the folks on these forums. Flame on![:X][:D]0 -
quote:Originally posted by Alpine
I find it interesting that people that are not willing to step up and become part of the solution are the loudest in crying "foul" here.
Fact A: It wasn't a "strip search". What it is: a highly edited video of a person resisting being placed in a safety cell.
Fact B: Male officers can assist the female officers in restraining (and vice-a-versa) for placement in a safety cell.
This subject has the odor of a beaten dead horse.
I will no longer post on this thread.
good deal cause there is a way which seems right unto men, but the end result is the way of death[;)][V]0 -
i guess we all watched a different version, the one i watched i almost got a peek, if it where not for the blurring, and the male officer holding her ankles assisting in removing her panties i'm sure he closed his eyes
besides there is the factual issue even admitted that males are not supposed to be present as policy0 -
quote:How about what they do in hospitals with patients who might hurt themselves? They are placed on gurneys with wrist and ankle restraints. They can't go anywhere, the restraints don't cause loss of circulation or other medical problems, and the patients can't hurt themselves or anyone else.
I sound like a Democrat because I think throwing distraught people to the floor and brutalizing them isn't the best way to keep them from harming themselves? So, a Republican would support continuing the practice seen on the video? This doesn't strike me a political issue, it's a human one.
It isn't a hospital. It isn't a nursery school. It isn't a Sunday school picnic. It darn sure isn't Burger King. It is a JAIL.
The procedures are similar in the jail in YOUR community, where YOU pay taxes. If you think the proceures are immoral, CHANGE THEM. Clean up your little corner of the world. When the rest of the jail administrators see what a wonderful place the Pulaski County Jail has become, they will surely all adopt the new, humanitarian procedures.0 -
quote:Originally posted by nunn
quote:How about what they do in hospitals with patients who might hurt themselves? They are placed on gurneys with wrist and ankle restraints. They can't go anywhere, the restraints don't cause loss of circulation or other medical problems, and the patients can't hurt themselves or anyone else.
I sound like a Democrat because I think throwing distraught people to the floor and brutalizing them isn't the best way to keep them from harming themselves? So, a Republican would support continuing the practice seen on the video? This doesn't strike me a political issue, it's a human one.
It isn't a hospital. It isn't a nursery school. It isn't a Sunday school picnic. It darn sure isn't Burger King. It is a JAIL.
The procedures are similar in the jail in YOUR community, where YOU pay taxes. If you think the proceures are immoral, CHANGE THEM. Clean up your little corner of the world. When the rest of the jail administrators see what a wonderful place the Pulaski County Jail has become, they will surely all adopt the new, humanitarian procedures.
David,
I understand that this isn't a hospital, a nursery school or anywhere else I'd want to be. I understand that this is jail.
Do you deny that innocent people are arrested and taken to jail?
If someone asked me to disrobe in front of them, and I wasn't married to her, you can bet your bottom dollar that I'd put up a stink. And, I'm a guy. Women are typically much more concerned about disrobing in front of others than men are.
If someone then demanded that you sat naked in a jail for hours upon hours, would you be upset? Or, would you just chalk it up to LEOs doing their job?
You still failed to address my comment earlier. You claim that this is done to save a life. Fine. How is that any different from the gun banners that argue if we can just save one life, isn't banning guns worth it?
My guess is that you'd find reason as to why banning guns to save a life is different than forceably strip-searching someone and leaving them to remain naked for two, four, six, eight hours (or however long it takes) who should be presumed and may very well be innocent of what they're accused of.
I respect LEOs when they deserve my respect. For instance, David, you've given me no reason to not respect you. However, I've certainly met my fair share of LEOs who think they're the cat's meow and have treated me like I'm some stupid citizen that they can boss around. They have superiority complexes. They think, because they've a badge and a gun, that they're better than Joe Average.
Some of the responses that I've seen here certainly mimic that. And, what truly disgusts me is those that say if you're arrested, you've probably been arrested for good reason.0 -
OVERVIEW OF THE POLICE BRUTALITY LAW
When an individual government official, or other person acting under color of law, violates one's civil rights, such a violation may give rise to civil liability, under 42 U.S.C. ? 1983. This statute allows a person to sue that individual -- and perhaps his government-employer in certain circumstances -- for money damages. Additionally, if successful on a civil rights claims, the law allows recovery of attorney's fees, under 42 U.S.C. ? 1988.
Misbehavior by a government official or agency may well also give rise to "negligence" type claims. Many states have "governmental immunities" acts, "sovereign immunities" acts, "tort claims" acts, and the like. These statutes often outline the nature and extent of permissible claims against the particular governmental entity at issue -- oftentimes, a government agrees to "waive" immunity in certain situations, thus allowing a private citizen to sue on non-civil rights claims as well. Sometimes the statute will impose a monetary cap on recovery, or prohibit punitive (i.e., "punishment") damages, or require specific notice to be given within a specified period of time in order to permit one to bring such a claim. It is imperative, in every situation that possibly invoves police (or other governmental) liability, that you immediately consult with an attorney to determine the particular type of notice, if any, that must be given to the government. Frequently a failure to give such notice will bar absolutely any claims under the pertinent tort claims/sovereign immunity act.
Sometimes tragedies occur when a person who is incarcerated, whether pre-trial or post-trial, is assaulted by other inmates. Or perhaps an inmate has a particular problem that leads him to take his own life. These acts, too, may give rise to civil claims against government officials. When a government limits or restricts one's ability to act on his own behalf -- thereby creating what is known as a "special relationship" -- the law imposes upon that government the obligation to assume some responsibility for his safety and general well-being. This includes the obligation to provide things such as food, clothing, shelter, medical care and reasonable safety. The United States Supreme Court has repeatedly reaffirmed these obligations.
[;)][;)][:D]0 -
Saxon Pig said "How about what they do in hospitals with patients who might hurt themselves? They are placed on gurneys with wrist and ankle restraints. They can't go anywhere, the restraints don't cause loss of circulation or other medical problems, and the patients can't hurt themselves or anyone else.
I sound like a Democrat because I think throwing distraught people to the floor and brutalizing them isn't the best way to keep them from harming themselves? So, a Republican would support continuing the practice seen on the video? This doesn't strike me a political issue, it's a human one."
I'm with Saxon Pig on this. I'm sure most are there for good reason. Some are not and some of those are there for a misdemeanor and don't deserve that. I'm sure her husband, who did not comitt a crime, is not happy about the nudity, males present, photographs and treatment of his wife.
A change is needed because it is the right thing to do. If doing the right thing is not enough motivation then it should be done because the present way makes law enforcement look bad. Bad press isn't just losing a few votes for additional funding for the police departments. The support base is becoming less. The members of this forum should be among LE's strongest supporters yet there is dissent. EVERYBODY sees and hears the news. This is how they picture LE. Remember Peyer? He was a highway patrolman that threw a coed over a bridge and killed her. He was up for parole last week and was denied. It was all over the news. The public will see this again in four years and be reminded. The benefits of the method of handling her are just not worth the press LE received.0 -
you guys are hilarious, to take these "extra" precautions require "extra" work, and who in their right mind takes on more work?, oh i'm sure it's not easy the way its done now on occasion, and we all know that being in jail automatically makes you want to commit suicide, and upon being released you forget all about it
judge dread is the way to go, each officer will become judge, jury, and executioner, no more jails no more courts, ans will save time money, and apparently suicide0 -
Spaniel-
As far as the saving a life comment-
The constitution guarantees your right to keep and bear arms. But even this is suspended while you are in custody in a jail setting.
You have a right to be free from unreasonable searches, but searches are generally not deemed to be unreasonable while in jail either.
When you are arrested and in a custodial situation, you may go to jail awaiting arraignment or trial. In these cases see the above listed facts.
Police can only (physically) arrest on probable cause (for a felony) or for a misdemeanor which is committed in their presence. The presumption of innocence is for the trial. Occasionally, innocent people do get arrested. But the police are legally able to arrest if they have probable cause. The arraignment is for a judge or magistrate to review the facts to ensure the police have enough probable cause. When a police officer places someone under arrest, they are responsible for their safety.
That is why things like this incident happen. Believe me, police don't like these situations either. I just think they have a better understanding because of their training and experience.
Your rights to keep and bear arms are guaranteed by the constitution. Your right to harm yourself or another person while in police custody are not.
I hope that answers the question.0
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