.50 cal...legitimate in Law Enforcement?
A long running debate among us cops. Does the .50 cal have a legit purpose in a Law Enforcement setting or should it be left to the guys in the military. I personaly think it is way too much for L.E.
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Who the heck is arguing that LE needs a .50 caliber? Tackleberry? 0 -
if something comes up that needs a deuce call the grunts. 0 -
The only reason I see that it would be needed would be in a anti-material role, such as stopping a truck. 0 -
Well it certainly would be a continuation of the trend of USA police emulating ninja storm troopers instead of being cops. 0 -
NO 0 -
I recently read about this arguement in an article in a L.E magazine and had the subject brought up by a few members of a S.W.A.T. team during a training session. Keeping in mind that most SWAT, SRT, CERT teams are comprised of alot of ex-military, I guess they subscribe to the "have it and never need it than to need it and never have it" mentality. In all fairness, the article was referring to large municiple agencies such as LAPD, Miami-Dade, Atlanta.. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by glabray
Well it certainly would be a continuation of the trend of USA police emulating ninja storm troopers instead of being cops.
Succinct.
D.0 -
i think so...like when the police ground pounded the little old lady in new orleans because she had a small pistol...they now could safely disarm her from a 1000 yards 0 -
quote:Originally posted by glabray
Well it certainly would be a continuation of the trend of USA police emulating ninja storm troopers instead of being cops.
+1 The militarization of our Law Enforcement should concern everyone.0 -
A .50 cal will be helpful the next time you entrap a citizen and shoot his dog and his son. Then, when you want to get his wife, you can stand off 2,000 yards and not be at risk from defensive fire. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by Don McManus
A .50 cal will be helpful the next time you entrap a citizen and shoot his dog and his son. Then, when you want to get his wife, you can stand off 2,000 yards and not be at risk from defensive fire.
10-4!!!!0 -
I see no reason why law enforcement shouldnt have .50 cal rifles. I see no reason why private citizens shouldnt have them as well. 0 -
Damn straight they should have them, and so should every citizen who wants one.
I'm against any type of gun control, including any regulation of what a PD can or can't use.0 -
quote:I see no reason why private citizens shouldnt have them as well.
Better get them while you got a chance.0 -
Sure it is. However it's not the .50 BMG round's long range capability that's needed, it's the penetration and sheer power of this round for anti-material use.
Vehicle borne IED's are a very real threat and 18-wheelers or any sort of heavy equipment is impossible to stop with anything less.
As an example, for a whole bunch of reasons there won't be any troops with anti-armor weapons posted around the stadium in Phoenix this Sunday. What action do you expect could be taken if an 18-wheeler were to come barreling across the parking lot at full speed during the Super Bowl game?0 -
[:D][:D][:D]
quote:Originally posted by peon
Who the heck is arguing that LE needs a .50 caliber? Tackleberry?0 -
quote:Originally posted by MT357
quote:I see no reason why private citizens shouldnt have them as well.
Better get them while you got a chance.
i missed the chance in my state. they are now banned in california. hopefully i am moving soon0 -
i didn't say they shouldn't have them. cops should just learn to shoot first. 0 -
I think .30 cal is just about big enough for the cops. 50 would be overkill.
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quote:Originally posted by Jake_S-83
if something comes up that needs a deuce call the grunts.
Ever heard of Posse Comitatus?0 -
I think sheriff's departments in border counties need them, next time the Federales show up to help their drug runner buddies, open up on them beyond their own effective range [:D]
as far as SWAT use...I thought the idea behind a SWAT sniper was to use a round that kills or incapacitates the badguy without going through a couple walls and 2-3 innocents [:p]0 -
The way I see it if "I" can't have one they shouldn't have one either.
A town of Carmel, CA with a small force of police who are too well equiped with HK-MP5's (too much tax dollars from art galleries needing spending[:D]). At most per shift there can't be more than a dozen cops on duty (including the meter maid). Mind you it's not like Dade County in the hay days of Cocain Cowboys it's general populus is retired folks or the "Nouveau Riche".
Personally they could've spent the cash better like on street cameras, since them galleries and shops seems to get ripped off might offten. It's funny how the owners don't see a person walking out with thousands of dollars sculpture or canvases. Or bottles of wine that costs more than what I make per pay period[:D]. I suppose them MP-5s were good investments it sure are detering not to mess with the C.P.D.[:D] for all I know they do have a .50 cal for getting cats out of trees or keeping the papers from flying off some desk.0 -
They already have firearms in excess of .50 cal, so I don't know what the argument is.
The 12 ga. shotgun slug is a little less the 3/4" in size and can penetrate a motor block. The .50 cal round only gets you a little more range that the 12 ga. don't have.
Generally most LE stuff is close range, but to have it in the truck is not a bad thing.0 -
Isn't there a significant risk of collateral damage with a .50 cal in an urban setting? If you want to stop a vehicle, there are much better solutions for LE, like electronic ignition disabling devices, stop sticks, and physical barriers. 0 -
I don't think a 12 ga. slug can pierce or break an iron engine block. Maybe an aluminum rice burner, but you could bust one of them with a .357 S&W Magnum.
I have a friend who owns a wrecking yard. Next time I go their, I'll shoot up some engine and post pix.
(If I remember).
Doug
* spelling0 -
I've done it. And it was a lonnnng time ago before there were aluminum blocks.
Just don't shoot the car where the front suspension is. Those old "A" arms would deform the slug to much.0 -
quote:Originally posted by yoshmyster
The way I see it if "I" can't have one they shouldn't have one either.
A town of Carmel, CA with a small force of police who are too well equiped with HK-MP5's (too much tax dollars from art galleries needing spending[:D]). At most per shift there can't be more than a dozen cops on duty (including the meter maid). Mind you it's not like Dade County in the hay days of Cocain Cowboys it's general populus is retired folks or the "Nouveau Riche".
Personally they could've spent the cash better like on street cameras, since them galleries and shops seems to get ripped off might offten. It's funny how the owners don't see a person walking out with thousands of dollars sculpture or canvases. Or bottles of wine that costs more than what I make per pay period[:D]. I suppose them MP-5s were good investments it sure are detering not to mess with the C.P.D.[:D] for all I know they do have a .50 cal for getting cats out of trees or keeping the papers from flying off some desk.
I've heard of many small town and backwater sheriff's departments getting Federal Homeland Security money. I honestly think that the small town police/sheriffs are also gun lovers and want to have those class 3s to play with even though they know they may never need them [:D]0 -
quote:Originally posted by Doug Wilson
I don't think a 12 ga. slug can pierce or break an iron engine block. Maybe an aluminum rice burner, but you could bust one of them with a .357 S&W Magnum.
I have a friend who owns a wrecking yard. Next time I go there, I'll shoot up some engine and post pix.
(If I remember).
Doug
* spelling
* and again0 -
quote:Originally posted by tysonagreen
Isn't there a significant risk of collateral damage with a .50 cal in an urban setting? If you want to stop a vehicle, there are much better solutions for LE, like electronic ignition disabling devices, stop sticks, and physical barriers.
Don't expect much collateral damage from a single round straight into an 18-wheeler engine block, especially from a downward angle. Even so, when you're talking about stopping a truck bomb this would be an acceptable risk. In all probablity the immediate area is about to receive a considerable amount of damage anyhow.
Electronic ignition disabling devices are ineffective against diesel engines.
Stop sticks don't immediately stop any vehicle, they're all able to continue for quite a ways. They eventually stop either because the driver decides to give up or friction causes the vehicle to catch fire.
Complete 360 degree semi-truck proof physical barriers aren't practical at all locations.
quote:Originally posted by Alpine
The 12 ga. shotgun slug is a little less the 3/4" in size and can penetrate a motor block. The .50 cal round only gets you a little more range that the 12 ga. don't have.You might get a 12 ga. to penetrate the outer jacket of a car's bare engine block under perfect conditions, but I wouldn't expect it to be effective on anything bigger. I'm talking about the need for something to reliably shut any type of vehicle down immediately, meaning complete penetration of it's engine or transmission from any angle. Besides this, good luck hitting a moving target the size of an engine block with a shotgun slug at more than about 50 yds. We're talking about truck bombs here. By the time it's in range it would be way too late.0 -
Were Talkin some major firepower here,if i remember correctly over 14,000 ft.lbs of energy at the muzzle,the average deer rifle is 3800.This is extreme firepower!!If a plane was coming over a hill this would bring it down.In some police localities i can see use in an extreme situation. 0
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