Winchester Model 94, 55, & 64 Survey update
Pinned
Hello all.
I am researching/surveying all of the pre WW II production through post WW II era production Model 94s, Model 55s, and Model 64s that I can locate. For those of you who are interested and would like to participate in a survey concerning several different production changes made to the Models 94, 55, and 64, please review the information that I am specifically looking for, and then post your information here on this topic, or you can send it to me directly at Win1885@msn.com.
5/24/202 Edit 4: Well, here I am again, and still at it. As of today, I now have logged (surveyed) just shy of 25,000 specimens, and I still looking for more. For the past number of years, I have been collaborating with Robert (Bob) C. Renneberg, and have written and published a number of articles of my own discussing the Model 1894(94), Model 55, and Model 64 production. I have added serial numbers 1 - 7499 to my survey list (looking for the semi-rare "First" models. Please get in touch with me via email if you have an interest in supporting the research survey.
12/8/2014 Edit 3: I have surpassed 10,500 total serial numbers in this research survey, and I am still working towards reaching the 16,000 mark. Due to a welcome increase in the number of people who are actively assisting me with this research, I plan to continue this survey well beyond my original goal. Sometime early next year (2015), I will post the current results of the survey in an easy to read format.
9/24/2011 Edit 2: I am rapidly closing in on (5,000) total serial numbers in this survey, and I would like to surpass that mark before the end of this month. The various production numbers represented in the survey have firmed up considerably in this past year, and I do not believe that they will change by any significant % as the survey continues to progress. Still, it is my intention to keep this survey alive and growing until I reach the (16,120) total serial numbers surveyed mark (1% of the total numbers in the survey range). At that point, I will publish a statistical analysis reference document detailing my findings.
Edit 1: I have come to the realization that I need to ask all of the following questions...
1. The complete serial number (please, no partial serial numbers).
2. The exact caliber stamp marking.
3. The specific type of butt plate, e.g. Carbine, serrated steel shotgun style, flat checkered steel, hard rubber, or the checkered steel plate with the widows peak and diamond surrounding the lower screw hole.
4. The type (style) of the upper tang marking, e.g. type 5, 6, or 7, or if it is blank.
5. Is the left side of the receiver factory drilled & tapped for a peep sight?
6. Does it have U.S. martial or Canadian PCMR markings on the receiver frame?
7. Does it have a Nickel Steel or a Proof Steel marked barrel?
8. Does it have a saddle ring?
9. If in the 1,200,000 - 1,270,000 serial range, is the bottom of the receiver marked with a "W"?
10. If in the 1,260,000 - 1,330,000 serial range, does the leading "1" digit look like an "L"?
11. If in the 1,370,000 - 1,560,000 serial range, does it have a flat-band or a milled front barrel band?
12. If in the 1,700,000 - 1,770,000 serial range, does it have the long or the short forend stock?
13. If it is a Model 55, is it a Take Down or Solid frame?
14. If it is a Model 64, is it standard Rifle, a Deer Rifle (deluxe), a standard Carbine, or a deluxe Carbine?
More specifically, I am trying to determine the serial number transition points for the caliber markings on the barrel...
(1) "30 W.C.F." versus "30-30 WIN" marked barrels,
(2) "32 W.S." versus "32 WIN. SPL."
(3) "25-35 W.C.F." versus "25-35 WIN."
(4) The transition point from the traditional curved steel carbine butt plate, to the steel shotgun style with the horizontal cut lines (serrated), and again the later transition to the flat checkered steel plates.
(5) Upper Tang roll stamp types (e.g. Type 5, 6, 7, or blank)
(6) Those guns that were factory drilled & tapped for a receiver mounted peep sight (Lyman or Redfield).
(7) The transition from the milled front barrel band to the flat-band, and then back to the milled band.
(8) The exact serial range for the "W" stamped guns...
(9) The exact serial range for the leading "L" digit serial number stamped guns...
And finally, I am attempting to determine the precise serial number transition points for the Models 55 and 64.
If you own (or know of) a Model 94, 55, or 64 in the 1,000,000 - 2,700,000 serial range, please take a close look at it, and then either post, or send the information directly to me. Your name and information will remain anonymous if you email the information to me. I will post updated results in this Sticky topic as the survey progresses.
In closing, I would like to thank everyone who has contributed to this survey, and to all who particiapte in the future. [:)].
Bert H.
I am researching/surveying all of the pre WW II production through post WW II era production Model 94s, Model 55s, and Model 64s that I can locate. For those of you who are interested and would like to participate in a survey concerning several different production changes made to the Models 94, 55, and 64, please review the information that I am specifically looking for, and then post your information here on this topic, or you can send it to me directly at Win1885@msn.com.
5/24/202 Edit 4: Well, here I am again, and still at it. As of today, I now have logged (surveyed) just shy of 25,000 specimens, and I still looking for more. For the past number of years, I have been collaborating with Robert (Bob) C. Renneberg, and have written and published a number of articles of my own discussing the Model 1894(94), Model 55, and Model 64 production. I have added serial numbers 1 - 7499 to my survey list (looking for the semi-rare "First" models. Please get in touch with me via email if you have an interest in supporting the research survey.
12/8/2014 Edit 3: I have surpassed 10,500 total serial numbers in this research survey, and I am still working towards reaching the 16,000 mark. Due to a welcome increase in the number of people who are actively assisting me with this research, I plan to continue this survey well beyond my original goal. Sometime early next year (2015), I will post the current results of the survey in an easy to read format.
9/24/2011 Edit 2: I am rapidly closing in on (5,000) total serial numbers in this survey, and I would like to surpass that mark before the end of this month. The various production numbers represented in the survey have firmed up considerably in this past year, and I do not believe that they will change by any significant % as the survey continues to progress. Still, it is my intention to keep this survey alive and growing until I reach the (16,120) total serial numbers surveyed mark (1% of the total numbers in the survey range). At that point, I will publish a statistical analysis reference document detailing my findings.
Edit 1: I have come to the realization that I need to ask all of the following questions...
1. The complete serial number (please, no partial serial numbers).
2. The exact caliber stamp marking.
3. The specific type of butt plate, e.g. Carbine, serrated steel shotgun style, flat checkered steel, hard rubber, or the checkered steel plate with the widows peak and diamond surrounding the lower screw hole.
4. The type (style) of the upper tang marking, e.g. type 5, 6, or 7, or if it is blank.
5. Is the left side of the receiver factory drilled & tapped for a peep sight?
6. Does it have U.S. martial or Canadian PCMR markings on the receiver frame?
7. Does it have a Nickel Steel or a Proof Steel marked barrel?
8. Does it have a saddle ring?
9. If in the 1,200,000 - 1,270,000 serial range, is the bottom of the receiver marked with a "W"?
10. If in the 1,260,000 - 1,330,000 serial range, does the leading "1" digit look like an "L"?
11. If in the 1,370,000 - 1,560,000 serial range, does it have a flat-band or a milled front barrel band?
12. If in the 1,700,000 - 1,770,000 serial range, does it have the long or the short forend stock?
13. If it is a Model 55, is it a Take Down or Solid frame?
14. If it is a Model 64, is it standard Rifle, a Deer Rifle (deluxe), a standard Carbine, or a deluxe Carbine?
More specifically, I am trying to determine the serial number transition points for the caliber markings on the barrel...
(1) "30 W.C.F." versus "30-30 WIN" marked barrels,
(2) "32 W.S." versus "32 WIN. SPL."
(3) "25-35 W.C.F." versus "25-35 WIN."
(4) The transition point from the traditional curved steel carbine butt plate, to the steel shotgun style with the horizontal cut lines (serrated), and again the later transition to the flat checkered steel plates.
(5) Upper Tang roll stamp types (e.g. Type 5, 6, 7, or blank)
(6) Those guns that were factory drilled & tapped for a receiver mounted peep sight (Lyman or Redfield).
(7) The transition from the milled front barrel band to the flat-band, and then back to the milled band.
(8) The exact serial range for the "W" stamped guns...
(9) The exact serial range for the leading "L" digit serial number stamped guns...
And finally, I am attempting to determine the precise serial number transition points for the Models 55 and 64.
If you own (or know of) a Model 94, 55, or 64 in the 1,000,000 - 2,700,000 serial range, please take a close look at it, and then either post, or send the information directly to me. Your name and information will remain anonymous if you email the information to me. I will post updated results in this Sticky topic as the survey progresses.
In closing, I would like to thank everyone who has contributed to this survey, and to all who particiapte in the future. [:)].
Bert H.
0
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quote:Originally posted by fourbie
survey input ....
mdl 94 s/n: 1571465
caliber marking: 30 W.C.F.
butt plate: flat checkered steel
tang marking: blank
factory drilled for peep sight: no
US martial or PCMR: unknown--how to tell?
Proof steel marking: yes
saddle ring: no
barrel band: milled
Thank you very much for the information[:)].
Your Model 94 Carbine was manufactured in the very early months of the year 1949.
The U.S. marked Carbines will have a "U S" and a flaming ordnance bomb stamped on the top of the frame ring. The PCMR Carbines have a broad arrow stamp on the lower left side of the receiver frame and on the butt stock. All of the PCMR Carbines were made in 1942.0 -
Thanks for the input Bert. this firearm has neither the US martial nor PCMR marking as you might expect.
It is surprising, or maybe not, that this firearm shoots amazingly accurately. I presume it would be more valuable but at some point I apparently set on someone's truck floorboard and apparent condensation has caused some oxidation on one side. I suppose it could be refinished. would refinishing be appropriate or detrimental to it value?
thanks in advance.0 -
quote:Originally posted by fourbie
Thanks for the input Bert. this firearm has neither the US martial nor PCMR marking as you might expect.
It is surprising, or maybe not, that this firearm shoots amazingly accurately. I presume it would be more valuable but at some point I apparently set on someone's truck floorboard and apparent condensation has caused some oxidation on one side. I suppose it could be refinished. would refinishing be appropriate or detrimental to it value?
thanks in advance.
You are quite welcome.
Ordinarily, refinishing a pre-64 Winchester is detrimental to the value. Without the benefit of actually seeing your Carbine, it is impossible to say what the best course of action should be. If you are able, please post a few pictures of it.0 -
Hi Bert , I have a model 94 serial # 1060101 nickel steel-32W.S. Type 6 , Milled band, carbine buttplate. I have had the gun since 65 or so and it still shoots nice and is a joy to carry in the swamps. hope this is useful to you 0 -
quote:Originally posted by Pembine
Hi Bert , I have a model 94 serial # 1060101 nickel steel-32W.S. Type 6 , Milled band, carbine buttplate. I have had the gun since 65 or so and it still shoots nice and is a joy to carry in the swamps. hope this is useful to you
Hello Pembine and thank you for sharing the information on your Eastern Carbine[:)].
The serial number places the DOM in December 1929. I assume that it has standard carbine style sights (the milled steel block w/pinned blade front sight, and the flip-up ladder style rear sight)?0 -
Bert,
I own a Model 94 32 Win Special, Serial #2039217 which I believe dates it to 1954. It is in pristine condition however, I do not have the original box or anything else.
Caliber Stamp: -32 WIN.SPL.-
Butt Plate: Flat Checkered Steel
Upper Tang Marking: None
Receiver: Yes, drilled & tapped for a peep sight
No U.S. or PCMR markings
Proof Steel marked barrel
No Saddel Ring
It has the initials DK stamped just ahead of the trigger0 -
quote:Originally posted by Magic051
Bert,
I own a Model 94 32 Win Special, Serial #2039217 which I believe dates it to 1954. It is in pristine condition however, I do not have the original box or anything else.
Caliber Stamp: -32 WIN.SPL.-
Butt Plate: Flat Checkered Steel
Upper Tang Marking: None
Receiver: Yes, drilled & tapped for a peep sight
No U.S. or PCMR markings
Proof Steel marked barrel
No Saddel Ring
It has the initials DK stamped just ahead of the trigger
My research (thus far) puts it at the tail end of 1953. If you are willing and able, please check to see what the 2-digit year number is that is stamped on the bottom of the barrel (under the forend stock & magazine tube). It could be either a "53" or a "54".0 -
Bert,
The stamp under the forearm on the barrel is 53........
Derek0 -
quote:Originally posted by Magic051
Bert,
The stamp under the forearm on the barrel is 53........
Derek
Hello Derek,
Thank you for checking it[:)]. Your finding confirms what I suspected, and it more positively points towards it being a late 1953 production carbine.0 -
Here is another one you can add to your survey...
1). Serial # 1293730
2). 30 W.C.F.
3). Serrated steel butt plate
4). Type 7
5). No peep sight holes drilled
6). No U.S. or arrow markings
7). Winchester Proof Steel marked on barrel
8). No saddle ring
10). I actually thought the first letter in the serial # was an "L", so yes
It does have a milled barrel ring as well. It also has a stamped number "40" just forward of the trigger on the bottom of the receiver. I'm guessing that would be a year of manufacture?? If so, it is a couple of years older than the age estimates I've seen.
BTW, I've learned a lot on this thread.
Thanks,
Kevin0 -
quote:Originally posted by kevind6
Here is another one you can add to your survey...
1). Serial # 1293730
2). 30 W.C.F.
3). Serrated steel butt plate
4). Type 7
5). No peep sight holes drilled
6). No U.S. or arrow markings
7). Winchester Proof Steel marked on barrel
8). No saddle ring
10). I actually thought the first letter in the serial # was an "L", so yes
It does have a milled barrel ring as well. It also has a stamped number "40" just forward of the trigger on the bottom of the receiver. I'm guessing that would be a year of manufacture?? If so, it is a couple of years older than the age estimates I've seen.
BTW, I've learned a lot on this thread.
Thanks,
Kevin
Hello Kevin,
Thank you very much for the information[:)]. This topic post was intended to be educational for all... including myself.
Model 94 number 1293730 was serialized in August of 1941, and it was assembled sometime after that date. The "40" stamp you are referring to is an inspectors stamp (for final fit & function).0 -
Model 94 - 32 WIN SPL
1837156
checkered0 -
quote:Originally posted by iweb
Model 94 - 32 WIN SPL
1837156
checkered
Thank you for posting[:)]
Is the receiver drilled & tapped for a peep sight? (I suspect that it is not, but would like to confirm that).
The serial number indicates that the receiver was serialized in the latter half of the year 1951.0 -
Hi Bert, This one belongs to a friend. It's a bit before the range you seek but here it is, Ser# 958847 marked 30 wcf Nickle steel especialy for smokeless carbine butt reciever not drilled but tang is type 5 tang markings buckhorn rear sight milled band that is in front of the front sight long fore arm I've not seen one set up with the band here before, the front sight is a small forging integeral with the barrel Swanie 0 -
No it is not drilled and thanks! 0 -
quote:Originally posted by wilmamae
Hi Bert, This one belongs to a friend. It's a bit before the range you seek but here it is, Ser# 958847 marked 30 wcf Nickle steel especialy for smokeless carbine butt reciever not drilled but tang is type 5 tang markings buckhorn rear sight milled band that is in front of the front sight long fore arm I've not seen one set up with the band here before, the front sight is a small forging integeral with the barrel Swanie
Model 94 serial 958847 was manufactured in the month of May, 1923. The front barrel band location you are referring to is normal for all of the Carbines that were manufactured starting in late 1894, all the way through early 1932 (April). When Winchester made the switch to the ramp style front sight in early 1932, they moved the barrel band behind the ramp.0 -
Good morning Bert,
A dandy little 94 SRC fell into my lap yesterday![:D]
Serial#949284
Nickel steel barrel 32W.S.
Carbine butt
All factory original conservatively 80% but missing the ring. The stud is there however.
What year do your records show she was born? What price range are the SRC's running in this economy?
Thanks,
Ed0 -
quote:Originally posted by gearheaddad
Good morning Bert,
A dandy little 94 SRC fell into my lap yesterday![:D]
Serial#949284
Nickel steel barrel 32W.S.
Carbine butt
All factory original conservatively 80% but missing the ring. The stud is there however.
What year do your records show she was born? What price range are the SRC's running in this economy?
Thanks,
Ed
Hello Ed,
Late November, 1922 (serial number 949494 was the last Model 94 serialized on November 29th, 1922).
At 80% but with a missing SR, and being a 32 W.S., it is worth about $750.0 -
Thanks Bert!!
Ed0 -
Hi Bert i'm new here i have a model 64 30 W.C.F Serial#299241
can't find any infor. about it.
19.5" barrel
proof steel
No SR
tang plate Model 1894 Winchester trade mark0 -
quote:Originally posted by bulldogger
Hi Bert i'm new here i have a model 64 30 W.C.F Serial#299241
can't find any infor. about it.
19.5" barrel
proof steel
No SR
tang plate Model 1894 Winchester trade mark
Hello,
Unfortunately what you actually have is an early 1906 vintage Model 1894 Sporting Rifle that was rebarreled with a Model 64 Carbine barrel. The fact that the barrel is marked "30 W.C.F." indicates that it a 1933 - 1950 vintage barrel. If you are really curious, remove the forend stock and magazine tube, and you should find a 2-digit year number stamped on the bottom of the barrel very near to where it threads into the frame ring.0 -
Thanks Bert for the infor. I will check the barrel out to see what it is. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by bulldogger
Thanks Bert for the infor. I will check the barrel out to see what it is.
You are quite welcome[:)].0 -
The 2 digit #39 0 -
quote:Originally posted by bulldogger
The 2 digit #39
That confirms what I mentioned before... you have a much later Model 64 barrel on an early Model 1894 receiver frame.0 -
Bert, Here is another one. MODEL 94-30-30 WIN-. proof steel, no tang marks, no peep drilling, milled carbine bands, short forearm, checkered butt, hooded front site. Ser#1853222X the X appears to be factory. I don't know much but I have never seen one with a letter. Blue is 90%+ but has smooth wear from a saddle scabbard. Kyle 0 -
quote:Originally posted by kylew
Bert, Here is another one. MODEL 94-30-30 WIN-. proof steel, no tang marks, no peep drilling, milled carbine bands, short forearm, checkered butt, hooded front site. Ser#1853222X the X appears to be factory. I don't know much but I have never seen one with a letter. Blue is 90%+ but has smooth wear from a saddle scabbard. Kyle
Hello Kyle,
Thank you very much for posting the information on your Winchester[:)].
The serial number tells me that it is a relatively late year 1951 production Model 94. The "X" on the end of the serial number is factory stamped, and it tells us that it was a duplicate serial number. The automatic indexing system on the serial number stamping machine on rare occasion would apparently malfunction, resulting in two (or more) receivers being stamped with the same number. When that happened, an "X" or "XX" was added to the end of the serial number. Winchester began that practice sometime during the 1940s. Your Model 94 is the 6th one I have in my survey with the "X" suffix, and it is very close to one other (1854060X). I suspect that the serial number machine may have been in need of some maintenance work at that time.0 -
Bert, Thank you for the info. I will have data on more 94's to follow. Kyle 0 -
quote:Originally posted by kylew
Bert, Thank you for the info. I will have data on more 94's to follow. Kyle
Hello Kyle,
Thank you, and I will look forward to your next post.0 -
Bert, Know you don't really need it but I just picked this one for $150 in 85%. Winchester 94, 30-30 WIN, drilled for receiver sights, no tang marks, hooded sight, ser # 1938233.
Lance0
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