Winchester Model 94, 55, & 64 Survey update
Pinned
Hello all.
I am researching/surveying all of the pre WW II production through post WW II era production Model 94s, Model 55s, and Model 64s that I can locate. For those of you who are interested and would like to participate in a survey concerning several different production changes made to the Models 94, 55, and 64, please review the information that I am specifically looking for, and then post your information here on this topic, or you can send it to me directly at Win1885@msn.com.
5/24/202 Edit 4: Well, here I am again, and still at it. As of today, I now have logged (surveyed) just shy of 25,000 specimens, and I still looking for more. For the past number of years, I have been collaborating with Robert (Bob) C. Renneberg, and have written and published a number of articles of my own discussing the Model 1894(94), Model 55, and Model 64 production. I have added serial numbers 1 - 7499 to my survey list (looking for the semi-rare "First" models. Please get in touch with me via email if you have an interest in supporting the research survey.
12/8/2014 Edit 3: I have surpassed 10,500 total serial numbers in this research survey, and I am still working towards reaching the 16,000 mark. Due to a welcome increase in the number of people who are actively assisting me with this research, I plan to continue this survey well beyond my original goal. Sometime early next year (2015), I will post the current results of the survey in an easy to read format.
9/24/2011 Edit 2: I am rapidly closing in on (5,000) total serial numbers in this survey, and I would like to surpass that mark before the end of this month. The various production numbers represented in the survey have firmed up considerably in this past year, and I do not believe that they will change by any significant % as the survey continues to progress. Still, it is my intention to keep this survey alive and growing until I reach the (16,120) total serial numbers surveyed mark (1% of the total numbers in the survey range). At that point, I will publish a statistical analysis reference document detailing my findings.
Edit 1: I have come to the realization that I need to ask all of the following questions...
1. The complete serial number (please, no partial serial numbers).
2. The exact caliber stamp marking.
3. The specific type of butt plate, e.g. Carbine, serrated steel shotgun style, flat checkered steel, hard rubber, or the checkered steel plate with the widows peak and diamond surrounding the lower screw hole.
4. The type (style) of the upper tang marking, e.g. type 5, 6, or 7, or if it is blank.
5. Is the left side of the receiver factory drilled & tapped for a peep sight?
6. Does it have U.S. martial or Canadian PCMR markings on the receiver frame?
7. Does it have a Nickel Steel or a Proof Steel marked barrel?
8. Does it have a saddle ring?
9. If in the 1,200,000 - 1,270,000 serial range, is the bottom of the receiver marked with a "W"?
10. If in the 1,260,000 - 1,330,000 serial range, does the leading "1" digit look like an "L"?
11. If in the 1,370,000 - 1,560,000 serial range, does it have a flat-band or a milled front barrel band?
12. If in the 1,700,000 - 1,770,000 serial range, does it have the long or the short forend stock?
13. If it is a Model 55, is it a Take Down or Solid frame?
14. If it is a Model 64, is it standard Rifle, a Deer Rifle (deluxe), a standard Carbine, or a deluxe Carbine?
More specifically, I am trying to determine the serial number transition points for the caliber markings on the barrel...
(1) "30 W.C.F." versus "30-30 WIN" marked barrels,
(2) "32 W.S." versus "32 WIN. SPL."
(3) "25-35 W.C.F." versus "25-35 WIN."
(4) The transition point from the traditional curved steel carbine butt plate, to the steel shotgun style with the horizontal cut lines (serrated), and again the later transition to the flat checkered steel plates.
(5) Upper Tang roll stamp types (e.g. Type 5, 6, 7, or blank)
(6) Those guns that were factory drilled & tapped for a receiver mounted peep sight (Lyman or Redfield).
(7) The transition from the milled front barrel band to the flat-band, and then back to the milled band.
(8) The exact serial range for the "W" stamped guns...
(9) The exact serial range for the leading "L" digit serial number stamped guns...
And finally, I am attempting to determine the precise serial number transition points for the Models 55 and 64.
If you own (or know of) a Model 94, 55, or 64 in the 1,000,000 - 2,700,000 serial range, please take a close look at it, and then either post, or send the information directly to me. Your name and information will remain anonymous if you email the information to me. I will post updated results in this Sticky topic as the survey progresses.
In closing, I would like to thank everyone who has contributed to this survey, and to all who particiapte in the future. [:)].
Bert H.
I am researching/surveying all of the pre WW II production through post WW II era production Model 94s, Model 55s, and Model 64s that I can locate. For those of you who are interested and would like to participate in a survey concerning several different production changes made to the Models 94, 55, and 64, please review the information that I am specifically looking for, and then post your information here on this topic, or you can send it to me directly at Win1885@msn.com.
5/24/202 Edit 4: Well, here I am again, and still at it. As of today, I now have logged (surveyed) just shy of 25,000 specimens, and I still looking for more. For the past number of years, I have been collaborating with Robert (Bob) C. Renneberg, and have written and published a number of articles of my own discussing the Model 1894(94), Model 55, and Model 64 production. I have added serial numbers 1 - 7499 to my survey list (looking for the semi-rare "First" models. Please get in touch with me via email if you have an interest in supporting the research survey.
12/8/2014 Edit 3: I have surpassed 10,500 total serial numbers in this research survey, and I am still working towards reaching the 16,000 mark. Due to a welcome increase in the number of people who are actively assisting me with this research, I plan to continue this survey well beyond my original goal. Sometime early next year (2015), I will post the current results of the survey in an easy to read format.
9/24/2011 Edit 2: I am rapidly closing in on (5,000) total serial numbers in this survey, and I would like to surpass that mark before the end of this month. The various production numbers represented in the survey have firmed up considerably in this past year, and I do not believe that they will change by any significant % as the survey continues to progress. Still, it is my intention to keep this survey alive and growing until I reach the (16,120) total serial numbers surveyed mark (1% of the total numbers in the survey range). At that point, I will publish a statistical analysis reference document detailing my findings.
Edit 1: I have come to the realization that I need to ask all of the following questions...
1. The complete serial number (please, no partial serial numbers).
2. The exact caliber stamp marking.
3. The specific type of butt plate, e.g. Carbine, serrated steel shotgun style, flat checkered steel, hard rubber, or the checkered steel plate with the widows peak and diamond surrounding the lower screw hole.
4. The type (style) of the upper tang marking, e.g. type 5, 6, or 7, or if it is blank.
5. Is the left side of the receiver factory drilled & tapped for a peep sight?
6. Does it have U.S. martial or Canadian PCMR markings on the receiver frame?
7. Does it have a Nickel Steel or a Proof Steel marked barrel?
8. Does it have a saddle ring?
9. If in the 1,200,000 - 1,270,000 serial range, is the bottom of the receiver marked with a "W"?
10. If in the 1,260,000 - 1,330,000 serial range, does the leading "1" digit look like an "L"?
11. If in the 1,370,000 - 1,560,000 serial range, does it have a flat-band or a milled front barrel band?
12. If in the 1,700,000 - 1,770,000 serial range, does it have the long or the short forend stock?
13. If it is a Model 55, is it a Take Down or Solid frame?
14. If it is a Model 64, is it standard Rifle, a Deer Rifle (deluxe), a standard Carbine, or a deluxe Carbine?
More specifically, I am trying to determine the serial number transition points for the caliber markings on the barrel...
(1) "30 W.C.F." versus "30-30 WIN" marked barrels,
(2) "32 W.S." versus "32 WIN. SPL."
(3) "25-35 W.C.F." versus "25-35 WIN."
(4) The transition point from the traditional curved steel carbine butt plate, to the steel shotgun style with the horizontal cut lines (serrated), and again the later transition to the flat checkered steel plates.
(5) Upper Tang roll stamp types (e.g. Type 5, 6, 7, or blank)
(6) Those guns that were factory drilled & tapped for a receiver mounted peep sight (Lyman or Redfield).
(7) The transition from the milled front barrel band to the flat-band, and then back to the milled band.
(8) The exact serial range for the "W" stamped guns...
(9) The exact serial range for the leading "L" digit serial number stamped guns...
And finally, I am attempting to determine the precise serial number transition points for the Models 55 and 64.
If you own (or know of) a Model 94, 55, or 64 in the 1,000,000 - 2,700,000 serial range, please take a close look at it, and then either post, or send the information directly to me. Your name and information will remain anonymous if you email the information to me. I will post updated results in this Sticky topic as the survey progresses.
In closing, I would like to thank everyone who has contributed to this survey, and to all who particiapte in the future. [:)].
Bert H.
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Great work and information, thank you Sir! 0 -
bert: i have been off the forum for a year and a half, but just picked up two 94's. they are in the mail, but can you tell me just the years? i will send rest of survey info. when they arrive: 1,354,690 and 1,349,812.
also, last year i asked for the 1943 serial range and you gave me a range. i have tried to read all the post since 3/25/09. are you now saying that no guns were produced during 1943 as i think i read in a newer post? thanks, for your help...mike0 -
quote:Originally posted by mikey888f
bert: i have been off the forum for a year and a half, but just picked up two 94's. they are in the mail, but can you tell me just the years? i will send rest of survey info. when they arrive: 1,354,690 and 1,349,812.
also, last year i asked for the 1943 serial range and you gave me a range. i have tried to read all the post since 3/25/09. are you now saying that no guns were produced during 1943 as i think i read in a newer post? thanks, for your help...mike
Hello Mike,
As it turns out (per the information contained in the Polishing Room Serialization Record books), Winchester did not manufacture any Model 94s in the year 1943. Production ceased in August of 1942 at serial 1343183, and resumed in November of 1944 at serial number 1343184.
1349812 was serialized in December of 1945. 1354690 was serialized in very early 1946.0 -
bert: thanks for the info. happy thanksgiving!!
another question: i went back through your "94 facts section", but i did find serial number ranges for the 1930 to 1941 years(last of prewar). are these on the sight somewhere, the correct polishing room numbers like yours? thanks, mike0 -
bert: also, is 1,324,532 a 1942 d.o.m.? thanks again, mike 0 -
quote:Originally posted by mikey888f
bert: also, is 1,324,532 a 1942 d.o.m.? thanks again, mike
March 1942 to be exact.0 -
quote:Originally posted by mikey888f
bert: thanks for the info. happy thanksgiving!!
another question: i went back through your "94 facts section", but i did find serial number ranges for the 1930 to 1941 years(last of prewar). are these on the sight somewhere, the correct polishing room numbers like yours? thanks, mike
Mike,
I am not exactly clear about what you are asking?
The Polishing Room Serialization Records I have access to are complete from serial number 1 through 1352066 (September 29th, 1894 to December 29th, 1945).0 -
can you give me the serial ranges for 1939 and 1941? i couln't find these years in your "1894 facts" section. are these years in there and i missed them? mike 0 -
quote:Originally posted by mikey888f
can you give me the serial ranges for 1939 and 1941? i couln't find these years in your "1894 facts" section. are these years in there and i missed them? mike
1939 = 1198405 - 1216165
1941 = 1259564 - 13133010 -
Bert:
Serial Number 1077243, Model 94, 32ws
Good condition
Any idea without pictures as to what I should ask for a selling price.
Never reblued or altered.0 -
quote:Originally posted by bentbarrel
Bert:
Serial Number 1077243, Model 94, 32ws
Good condition
Any idea without pictures as to what I should ask for a selling price.
Never reblued or altered.
I need more information... Is it a SRC, an Eastern Carbine, or a Sporting Rifle?0 -
bert: my new(!) 1894:
serial number= 1,354,690
barrel says 42
32 ws
checkered steel
blank tang
no sight tapping
not sure where pcmr would be
proof steel
no ring
milled barrel band
i'm curious about the 42 barrel as it should be 46,eh? mike0 -
bert: here is some additional info about #1,354,690. looking at your pics of the barrel undersides, mine is different in that the 32ws is printed upside down and the 42 is printed at right angles to all the barrel year numbers in your pics. 42 is not parallel to the printing on top of the barrel as your pics are, it is turned 90* to the right. hope this makes sense. mike 0 -
Hello Mike,
Production of the Model 94 was halted in late August of 1942 at serial number 1343183. A very limited few were manufactured in November of 1944 (13 total) and June of 1945 (3 total), and then regular production was resumed in September of 1945 (at serial number 1342000).
When production was halted in late 1942, I am willing to bet that there were a large number of barrels still on hand, and that when production was resumed in late 1945, "42" marked barrels were used.
Based on these month ending numbers (from the Polishing Room records);
28-Sep 1945 - 1343510
30-Oct 1945 - 1345463
29-Nov 1945 - 1348730
29-Dec 1945 - 1352066
I am willing to bet that your Carbine was manufactured in January of 1946, and as such, it very likely could have a 1942 marked barrel on it. As for the date number being turned 90 degrees, that is a bit odd, but nothing to be concerned about.
Edit: Checking my records, serial number 1368130 (also a 32 WS) has a "42" barrel date. That confirms my suspicion that your Carbine is correct with a "42" marked barrel.0 -
bert: thanks, i'm still waiting for my 2nd 94, 1,349,8xx to see what barrel it has! thanks again...mike 0 -
Bert My 94 is serial#2076017 is taped for a rear sight and has a round barrel band. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by singleshotfanatic
Bert My 94 is serial#2076017 is taped for a rear sight and has a round barrel band.
Which cartridge is it chambered for?0 -
Bert,
Serial No# 2002682
Win 94
30-30-WIN
Checkered steel buttplate
Blank tang
D&T
Milled band
NO Martial or PCMR marks
Winchester proof steel barrel
NO Saddle ring
Steve0 -
quote:Originally posted by sschrad
Bert,
Serial No# 2002682
Win 94
30-30-WIN
Checkered steel buttplate
Blank tang
D&T
Milled band
NO Martial or PCMR marks
Winchester proof steel barrel
NO Saddle ring
Steve
Hello Steve,
Thank you for your participation in the survey.
Your Model 94 is a standard Sporting Carbine, manufactured in 1953.0 -
quote:Originally posted by Bert H.
Hello all.
I am attempting to research all of the pre WW II production through post WW II era production Model 94s, Model 55s, and Model 64s that I can locate. For those of you who are interested and would like to participate in a survey concerning several different production changes made to the Models 94, 55, and 64, please either post your information here, or send it directly to me at Win1885@msn.com.
Edit: I have come to the realization that I need to ask all of the following questions...
1. The complete serial number (please, no partial serial numbers).
2. The exact caliber stamp marking (see the pictures below for examples).
3. The specific type of butt plate, e.g. Carbine, serrated steel shotgun style, flat checkered steel, hard rubber, or the checkered steel plate with the widows peak and diamond surrounding the lower screw hole (see the pictures below).
4. The type (style) of the upper tang marking, e.g. type 5, 6, or 7, or if it is blank (see the pictures below).
5. Is the receiver factory drilled & tapped for a peep sight?
6. U.S. martial or PCMR marked guns?
7. Nickel Steel or Proof Steel marked barrel?
8. Does it have a saddle ring?
9. If in the 1,200,000 - 1,270,000 serial range, is the bottom of the receiver marked with a "W"?
10. If in the 1,260,000 - 1,310,000 serial range, does the leading "1" digit look like an "L"?
11. If in the 1,370,000 - 1,560,000 serial range, does it have a flat-band or a milled front barrel band?
12. If in the 1,700,000 - 1,770,000 serial range, does it have the long or the short forend stock?
13. If a Model 55, is it a Take Down or Solid frame?
14. If a Model 64, is it standard Rifle, a Deer Rifle (deluxe), a standard Carbine, or a deluxe Carbine?
More specifically, I am trying to determine the approximate serial number transition point for...
(1) "30 W.C.F." versus "30-30 WIN" marked barrels,
(2) "32 W.S." versus "32 WIN. SPL."
(3) The transition point from the traditional curved steel carbine butt plate, to the steel shotgun style with the horizontal cut lines (serrated), and again the later transition to the flat checkered steel plates.
Carbine butt plate used only on the Model 94...
Serrated steel butt plate used on both the Model 94 and 55...
Checkered steel butt plate used only on the Model 94...
Checkered steel with widows peak butt plate used almost exclusively on the Model 64... (this type of butt plate was first introduced for the Model 1887 and 1897 shotguns)
(4) Upper Tang roll stamp types.
Type 5
Type 6
Type 7
(5) Those guns that were factory drilled & tapped for a receiver mounted peep sight (Lyman or Redfield).
(6) The transition from the milled front barrel band to the flat-band
Milled Band...
Flat-Band...
(7) The exact Serial range for the "W" stamped guns...
(8) The exact Serial range for the "L" stamped guns...
And finally, I am attempting to determine the precise serial number transition points for the Models 55 and 64.
If you own (or know of) a Model 94, 55, or 64 in the 1,000,000 - 2,700,000 serial range, please take a close look at it, and then either post, or send the information directly to me. Your name and information will remain anonymous if you email the information to me. I will post updated results in this Sticky topic as the survey progresses.
Thanks in advance to all who respond & participate[:)].
Bert H.0 -
quote:Originally posted by brute
quote:Originally posted by Bert H.
Hello all.
I am attempting to research all of the pre WW II production through post WW II era production Model 94s, Model 55s, and Model 64s that I can locate. For those of you who are interested and would like to participate in a survey concerning several different production changes made to the Models 94, 55, and 64, please either post your information here, or send it directly to me at Win1885@msn.com.
Edit: I have come to the realization that I need to ask all of the following questions...
1. The complete serial number (please, no partial serial numbers).
2. The exact caliber stamp marking (see the pictures below for examples).
3. The specific type of butt plate, e.g. Carbine, serrated steel shotgun style, flat checkered steel, hard rubber, or the checkered steel plate with the widows peak and diamond surrounding the lower screw hole (see the pictures below).
4. The type (style) of the upper tang marking, e.g. type 5, 6, or 7, or if it is blank (see the pictures below).
5. Is the receiver factory drilled & tapped for a peep sight?
6. U.S. martial or PCMR marked guns?
7. Nickel Steel or Proof Steel marked barrel?
8. Does it have a saddle ring?
9. If in the 1,200,000 - 1,270,000 serial range, is the bottom of the receiver marked with a "W"?
10. If in the 1,260,000 - 1,310,000 serial range, does the leading "1" digit look like an "L"?
11. If in the 1,370,000 - 1,560,000 serial range, does it have a flat-band or a milled front barrel band?
12. If in the 1,700,000 - 1,770,000 serial range, does it have the long or the short forend stock?
13. If a Model 55, is it a Take Down or Solid frame?
14. If a Model 64, is it standard Rifle, a Deer Rifle (deluxe), a standard Carbine, or a deluxe Carbine?
More specifically, I am trying to determine the approximate serial number transition point for...
(1) "30 W.C.F." versus "30-30 WIN" marked barrels,
(2) "32 W.S." versus "32 WIN. SPL."
(3) The transition point from the traditional curved steel carbine butt plate, to the steel shotgun style with the horizontal cut lines (serrated), and again the later transition to the flat checkered steel plates.
Carbine butt plate used only on the Model 94...
Serrated steel butt plate used on both the Model 94 and 55...
Checkered steel butt plate used only on the Model 94...
Checkered steel with widows peak butt plate used almost exclusively on the Model 64... (this type of butt plate was first introduced for the Model 1887 and 1897 shotguns)
(4) Upper Tang roll stamp types.
Type 5
Type 6
Type 7
(5) Those guns that were factory drilled & tapped for a receiver mounted peep sight (Lyman or Redfield).
(6) The transition from the milled front barrel band to the flat-band
Milled Band...
Flat-Band...
(7) The exact Serial range for the "W" stamped guns...
(8) The exact Serial range for the "L" stamped guns...
And finally, I am attempting to determine the precise serial number transition points for the Models 55 and 64.
If you own (or know of) a Model 94, 55, or 64 in the 1,000,000 - 2,700,000 serial range, please take a close look at it, and then either post, or send the information directly to me. Your name and information will remain anonymous if you email the information to me. I will post updated results in this Sticky topic as the survey progresses.
Thanks in advance to all who respond & participate[:)].
Bert H.0 -
Hi Bert I have a model 64 #2061750 30-30 win,checkered steel butt plate window peak, blank top strap, drilled and tapped with a redfield peep sight and original ramp sight, front hood, 24 inch barrel, org. leather sling and swivel. Bluing is perfect, bore is perfect, stock is excellent. It's a deluxe deer rifle. I don't know about nickel or proof steel marks. 0 -
Bert,
I recently acquired my first Model 94 and here is its stats:
S/N 1817230 (1951)
-Model 94-30-30-WIN.-
Flat checkered steel butt
Upper tang is blank
not drilled
miller front barrel band
No letter under S/N
However, on the bottom just in front of the trigger is the stamp CB.
Any idea what that is?
Thanks0 -
quote:Originally posted by brute
Hi Bert I have a model 64 #2061750 30-30 win,checkered steel butt plate window peak, blank top strap, drilled and tapped with a redfield peep sight and original ramp sight, front hood, 24 inch barrel, org. leather sling and swivel. Bluing is perfect, bore is perfect, stock is excellent. It's a deluxe deer rifle. I don't know about nickel or proof steel marks.
Thank you for posting the information[:)]
The date on the barrel should be "54", and it is marked "WINCHESTER PROOF STEEL" on the left side of the barrel near the rear sight.0 -
quote:Originally posted by MPinkston
Bert,
I recently acquired my first Model 94 and here is its stats:
S/N 1817230 (1951)
-Model 94-30-30-WIN.-
Flat checkered steel butt
Upper tang is blank
not drilled
miller front barrel band
No letter under S/N
However, on the bottom just in front of the trigger is the stamp CB.
Any idea what that is?
Thanks
Hello Mark,
Thank you for posting[:)]
The serial number indicates that it will have a "51" marked barrel. The "CB" is an inpsection stamp.0 -
bert: info on my second 94:
1. 1,349,880 (can you give me a day, month if you have it?)
2. 30wcf
3. serated steel shotgun (are these straight top-bottom?
4. no tang mark
5. no pcmr
6. no peep drill
7. proof steel
8. no sr
9. 42 barrel!!30wcf mike0 -
quote:Originally posted by mikey888f
bert: info on my second 94:
1. 1,349,880 (can you give me a day, month if you have it?)
2. 30wcf
3. serated steel shotgun (are these straight top-bottom?
4. no tang mark
5. no pcmr
6. no peep drill
7. proof steel
8. no sr
9. 42 barrel!!30wcf mike
December 10th, 1945.0 -
bert: 1,205,178 is what month and year? looking to buy...mike 0 -
quote:Originally posted by mikey888f
bert: 1,205,178 is what month and year? looking to buy...mike
March 1939.
What caliber is it? Does it have a "W" stamped on the bottom of the receiver?0 -
bert: haven't had it in mu hands yet. mike 0
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