Winchester Model 94, 55, & 64 Survey update
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Hello all.
I am researching/surveying all of the pre WW II production through post WW II era production Model 94s, Model 55s, and Model 64s that I can locate. For those of you who are interested and would like to participate in a survey concerning several different production changes made to the Models 94, 55, and 64, please review the information that I am specifically looking for, and then post your information here on this topic, or you can send it to me directly at Win1885@msn.com.
5/24/202 Edit 4: Well, here I am again, and still at it. As of today, I now have logged (surveyed) just shy of 25,000 specimens, and I still looking for more. For the past number of years, I have been collaborating with Robert (Bob) C. Renneberg, and have written and published a number of articles of my own discussing the Model 1894(94), Model 55, and Model 64 production. I have added serial numbers 1 - 7499 to my survey list (looking for the semi-rare "First" models. Please get in touch with me via email if you have an interest in supporting the research survey.
12/8/2014 Edit 3: I have surpassed 10,500 total serial numbers in this research survey, and I am still working towards reaching the 16,000 mark. Due to a welcome increase in the number of people who are actively assisting me with this research, I plan to continue this survey well beyond my original goal. Sometime early next year (2015), I will post the current results of the survey in an easy to read format.
9/24/2011 Edit 2: I am rapidly closing in on (5,000) total serial numbers in this survey, and I would like to surpass that mark before the end of this month. The various production numbers represented in the survey have firmed up considerably in this past year, and I do not believe that they will change by any significant % as the survey continues to progress. Still, it is my intention to keep this survey alive and growing until I reach the (16,120) total serial numbers surveyed mark (1% of the total numbers in the survey range). At that point, I will publish a statistical analysis reference document detailing my findings.
Edit 1: I have come to the realization that I need to ask all of the following questions...
1. The complete serial number (please, no partial serial numbers).
2. The exact caliber stamp marking.
3. The specific type of butt plate, e.g. Carbine, serrated steel shotgun style, flat checkered steel, hard rubber, or the checkered steel plate with the widows peak and diamond surrounding the lower screw hole.
4. The type (style) of the upper tang marking, e.g. type 5, 6, or 7, or if it is blank.
5. Is the left side of the receiver factory drilled & tapped for a peep sight?
6. Does it have U.S. martial or Canadian PCMR markings on the receiver frame?
7. Does it have a Nickel Steel or a Proof Steel marked barrel?
8. Does it have a saddle ring?
9. If in the 1,200,000 - 1,270,000 serial range, is the bottom of the receiver marked with a "W"?
10. If in the 1,260,000 - 1,330,000 serial range, does the leading "1" digit look like an "L"?
11. If in the 1,370,000 - 1,560,000 serial range, does it have a flat-band or a milled front barrel band?
12. If in the 1,700,000 - 1,770,000 serial range, does it have the long or the short forend stock?
13. If it is a Model 55, is it a Take Down or Solid frame?
14. If it is a Model 64, is it standard Rifle, a Deer Rifle (deluxe), a standard Carbine, or a deluxe Carbine?
More specifically, I am trying to determine the serial number transition points for the caliber markings on the barrel...
(1) "30 W.C.F." versus "30-30 WIN" marked barrels,
(2) "32 W.S." versus "32 WIN. SPL."
(3) "25-35 W.C.F." versus "25-35 WIN."
(4) The transition point from the traditional curved steel carbine butt plate, to the steel shotgun style with the horizontal cut lines (serrated), and again the later transition to the flat checkered steel plates.
(5) Upper Tang roll stamp types (e.g. Type 5, 6, 7, or blank)
(6) Those guns that were factory drilled & tapped for a receiver mounted peep sight (Lyman or Redfield).
(7) The transition from the milled front barrel band to the flat-band, and then back to the milled band.
(8) The exact serial range for the "W" stamped guns...
(9) The exact serial range for the leading "L" digit serial number stamped guns...
And finally, I am attempting to determine the precise serial number transition points for the Models 55 and 64.
If you own (or know of) a Model 94, 55, or 64 in the 1,000,000 - 2,700,000 serial range, please take a close look at it, and then either post, or send the information directly to me. Your name and information will remain anonymous if you email the information to me. I will post updated results in this Sticky topic as the survey progresses.
In closing, I would like to thank everyone who has contributed to this survey, and to all who particiapte in the future. [:)].
Bert H.
I am researching/surveying all of the pre WW II production through post WW II era production Model 94s, Model 55s, and Model 64s that I can locate. For those of you who are interested and would like to participate in a survey concerning several different production changes made to the Models 94, 55, and 64, please review the information that I am specifically looking for, and then post your information here on this topic, or you can send it to me directly at Win1885@msn.com.
5/24/202 Edit 4: Well, here I am again, and still at it. As of today, I now have logged (surveyed) just shy of 25,000 specimens, and I still looking for more. For the past number of years, I have been collaborating with Robert (Bob) C. Renneberg, and have written and published a number of articles of my own discussing the Model 1894(94), Model 55, and Model 64 production. I have added serial numbers 1 - 7499 to my survey list (looking for the semi-rare "First" models. Please get in touch with me via email if you have an interest in supporting the research survey.
12/8/2014 Edit 3: I have surpassed 10,500 total serial numbers in this research survey, and I am still working towards reaching the 16,000 mark. Due to a welcome increase in the number of people who are actively assisting me with this research, I plan to continue this survey well beyond my original goal. Sometime early next year (2015), I will post the current results of the survey in an easy to read format.
9/24/2011 Edit 2: I am rapidly closing in on (5,000) total serial numbers in this survey, and I would like to surpass that mark before the end of this month. The various production numbers represented in the survey have firmed up considerably in this past year, and I do not believe that they will change by any significant % as the survey continues to progress. Still, it is my intention to keep this survey alive and growing until I reach the (16,120) total serial numbers surveyed mark (1% of the total numbers in the survey range). At that point, I will publish a statistical analysis reference document detailing my findings.
Edit 1: I have come to the realization that I need to ask all of the following questions...
1. The complete serial number (please, no partial serial numbers).
2. The exact caliber stamp marking.
3. The specific type of butt plate, e.g. Carbine, serrated steel shotgun style, flat checkered steel, hard rubber, or the checkered steel plate with the widows peak and diamond surrounding the lower screw hole.
4. The type (style) of the upper tang marking, e.g. type 5, 6, or 7, or if it is blank.
5. Is the left side of the receiver factory drilled & tapped for a peep sight?
6. Does it have U.S. martial or Canadian PCMR markings on the receiver frame?
7. Does it have a Nickel Steel or a Proof Steel marked barrel?
8. Does it have a saddle ring?
9. If in the 1,200,000 - 1,270,000 serial range, is the bottom of the receiver marked with a "W"?
10. If in the 1,260,000 - 1,330,000 serial range, does the leading "1" digit look like an "L"?
11. If in the 1,370,000 - 1,560,000 serial range, does it have a flat-band or a milled front barrel band?
12. If in the 1,700,000 - 1,770,000 serial range, does it have the long or the short forend stock?
13. If it is a Model 55, is it a Take Down or Solid frame?
14. If it is a Model 64, is it standard Rifle, a Deer Rifle (deluxe), a standard Carbine, or a deluxe Carbine?
More specifically, I am trying to determine the serial number transition points for the caliber markings on the barrel...
(1) "30 W.C.F." versus "30-30 WIN" marked barrels,
(2) "32 W.S." versus "32 WIN. SPL."
(3) "25-35 W.C.F." versus "25-35 WIN."
(4) The transition point from the traditional curved steel carbine butt plate, to the steel shotgun style with the horizontal cut lines (serrated), and again the later transition to the flat checkered steel plates.
(5) Upper Tang roll stamp types (e.g. Type 5, 6, 7, or blank)
(6) Those guns that were factory drilled & tapped for a receiver mounted peep sight (Lyman or Redfield).
(7) The transition from the milled front barrel band to the flat-band, and then back to the milled band.
(8) The exact serial range for the "W" stamped guns...
(9) The exact serial range for the leading "L" digit serial number stamped guns...
And finally, I am attempting to determine the precise serial number transition points for the Models 55 and 64.
If you own (or know of) a Model 94, 55, or 64 in the 1,000,000 - 2,700,000 serial range, please take a close look at it, and then either post, or send the information directly to me. Your name and information will remain anonymous if you email the information to me. I will post updated results in this Sticky topic as the survey progresses.
In closing, I would like to thank everyone who has contributed to this survey, and to all who particiapte in the future. [:)].
Bert H.
0
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Hello Bert I sent email on survey yesterday i have no idea if you got it so i will do it again. 1st model 94
1.sn. 81862
2. 30 W.C.F.
3. crescent
4.#5
5. no
7. nickel steel
8. no
2nd model 94
1.sn. 1610656
2.MODEL 94-30 W.C.F-
3.flat checkered steel
4.blank
5.no
6.no
7.WINCHESTER PROOF STEEL
8.no saddle ring
11.milled barrle band
I hope this helps. Have any questions let me know. I would apreciate any info. on them thanks0 -
quote:Originally posted by ca9430
Hello Bert I sent email on survey yesterday i have no idea if you got it so i will do it again. 1st model 94
1.sn. 81862
2. 30 W.C.F.
3. crescent
4.#5
5. no
7. nickel steel
8. no
2nd model 94
1.sn. 1610656
2.MODEL 94-30 W.C.F-
3.flat checkered steel
4.blank
5.no
6.no
7.WINCHESTER PROOF STEEL
8.no saddle ring
11.milled barrle band
I hope this helps. Have any questions let me know. I would apreciate any info. on them thanks
Chris,
I did receive it, but was a little too busy to reply right away. I did send you a reply about an hour ago.
Thanks for posting[:)]0 -
Hi Bert,
I have a 94 Octagonal barrel 30WCF
SN: 64916
Would love to post pics, but It looks like unspeakable deeds were done to it in the 70's... like somebody put it in a vise and sanded it.
Will post pics if requested, but please don't hurt me. I just did as the owner asked, as it was rusting away.0 -
quote:Originally posted by jdsteel82
Hi Bert,
I have a 94 Octagonal barrel 30WCF
SN: 64916
Would love to post pics, but It looks like unspeakable deeds were done to it in the 70's... like somebody put it in a vise and sanded it.
Will post pics if requested, but please don't hurt me. I just did as the owner asked, as it was rusting away.
Hello JD,
No need for pictures, and it is what it is now... a "shooter". The serial number places the DOM in July of 1899.0 -
Got a Winchester 94AE, .357Mag on hand
Serial# 6487150
When would that be from, and are parts still available.?
It has a bad part, which sometimes lets out a cartridge from the magazine - under the "flip-up"lever-thingy /cartridge-lifter-thingy.0 -
quote:Originally posted by HappyNanoq
Got a Winchester 94AE, .357Mag on hand
Serial# 6487150
When would that be from, and are parts still available.?
It has a bad part, which sometimes lets out a cartridge from the magazine - under the "flip-up"lever-thingy /cartridge-lifter-thingy.
This should help you...
U.S. Repeating Arms Co. (the maker of Winchester trademarked firearms January 1981 - March 2006) - http://www.winchesterguns.com/services/index.asp
Product Information: If your question hasn't been answered in the Frequently Asked Questions and it is a question about manuals, catalogs, & products please call our Consumer Department directly at: 800.333.3288 or 801.876.2711 & for Parts & Service call: 800.322.46260 -
1846187 30-30 win checkered not tapped
2140421 same same tapped
2343937 same same same
1295951 30 wcf serrated not tapped type 7 tang
1465531 same checkered same
1153141 same serrated same type 6 tang
1174741 same same same typr 7 tang
1555552 same checkered same
1569287 same same same
1654760 same same same
2462916 30-30 win same tapped
1986519 same same same0 -
one more
2050712 30-30 win checkered tapped0 -
Hello kenjoe,
First, thank you very much for your post and sharing the information.
The DOM information for your Model 94s is as follows;
1. 1153141 - November 11th, 1937.
2. 1174741 - May 4th, 1938.
3. 1295951 - September 11th, 1941. Does the leading "1" look like an "L"?
The following are estimated dates only...
4. 1465531 - Late 1947. This should be a Flat-band Carbine.
5. 1555552 - Very late 1948.
6. 1569287 - Early 1949.
7. 1654760 - Very late 1949.
8. 1846187 - Late 1951.
9. 1986519 - Mid-year 1953.
10. 2050712 - Very early 1954.
11. 2140421 - Mid-year 1955.
12. 2343937 - Early 1959.
13. 2462916 - Early 1961.
If you have any questions, please let me know.0 -
Hey Bert. I have a Model 94:
1. SN- 1342175
2. Serrated butt plate
3. Type 7 tang stamp
4. Not drilled and tapped
5. Milled band
6. Cal. stamped 30 W.C.F.
7. Proof steel
Hope this helps.0 -
quote:Originally posted by bkalex
Hey Bert. I have a Model 94:
1. SN- 1342175
2. Serrated butt plate
3. Type 7 tang stamp
4. Not drilled and tapped
5. Milled band
6. Cal. stamped 30 W.C.F.
7. Proof steel
Hope this helps.
Thanks for posting!
Your Model 94 was serialized in July of 1942, and it is standard in all respects.0 -
Thanks Bert! 0 -
Thanks for the dates. regarding the 1295951 number, yes the leading "1" does look like an L, what does this mean? 0 -
quote:Originally posted by kenjoe45
Thanks for the dates. regarding the 1295951 number, yes the leading "1" does look like an L, what does this mean?
It has no specific meaning. It was simply just a different style number die.0 -
Thanks again. I have noticed on my Model 94,s, seven of them have the forearm about one inch longer than the other six. Any meaning to this. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by kenjoe45
Thanks again. I have noticed on my Model 94,s, seven of them have the forearm about one inch longer than the other six. Any meaning to this.
No, there is no special meaning. Winchester simply changed the length of the forend stock on the Carbines at or very near serial number 1750600 in late 1950.0 -
Good Morning all.
I have a model 94 30-30 serial # 148#### it does have the flat band and checkered plate. I tryed to look up the date and but cant find any formation. I also have model 70 serial # 804###(243) which I'm also looking for some info on as to feather weight or sporter or any info.
Thanks in advance.0 -
quote:Originally posted by JROB9mm
Good Morning all.
I have a model 94 30-30 serial # 148#### it does have the flat band and checkered plate. I tryed to look up the date and but cant find any formation. I also have model 70 serial # 804###(243) which I'm also looking for some info on as to feather weight or sporter or any info.
Thanks in advance.
In order to provide accurate answers, I require complete serial numbers... no "###" or "xxx". If you are not comfortable posting the complete number, you can send them to me at Win1885@msn.com or via a PM on this forum.0 -
Bert H.,
I have a Win. Mod. 94 SRC
32 W.S.
Ser. No. 1,062,304
20" RBFM
Saddle Ring
Carbine butt
Type 6 tang marking
Nickel Steel barrel marking
I can give you minimal information on 3 other guns that fall in the serial range you are researching. I couldn't provide more info because I no longer own them.0 -
quote:Originally posted by oakridge
Bert H.,
I have a Win. Mod. 94 SRC
32 W.S.
Ser. No. 1,062,304
20" RBFM
Saddle Ring
Carbine butt
Type 6 tang marking
Nickel Steel barrel marking
I can give you minimal information on 3 other guns that fall in the serial range you are researching. I couldn't provide more info because I no longer own them.
Your Model 94 SRC is completely normal, and was serialized on March 5th, 1930.
Please provide any information you can.
Thanks.0 -
Bert H.,
This is the only info I have on these:
Win. Mod. 94 Carbine
Ser. No. 1,111,937
Cal. .30 W.C.F.
20" RBFM
This is a standard carbine made
WITHOUT saddle ring.
Win. Mod. 55 Rifle
Ser. No. 8504
Cal. .25-35 W.C.F.
24"RB Half Magazine
Shotgun butt
Takedown
Lyman front "Jacksight"
Lyman folding leaf rear sight
Lyman #38 receiver sight
Sling swivels
Win. Mod. 64 Rifle
Ser. No. 1,377,401
Cal. .219 Zipper
26" RB Half magazine
Shotgun Butt
Deluxe
Checkered forearm and
pistol grip with grip cap0 -
Hello oakridge,
First, thank you very much for the additional information, especially the Model 55 and 64. Each one found and surveyed fills in one more piece to the puzzle[:)].
I do have a question about the Model 64 219 Zipper... do you remember if it had a bolt peep sight, or a receiver peep sight (or the drilled & tapped holes for one)?
Thanks,0 -
Bert H.,
Sorry about that. My Zipper did have a receiver sight. It was not like the long Lyman #21 that I had on several Winchesters. I think it was the Lyman #56 sight. I don't think the bolt was made for a bolt peep sight.0 -
quote:Originally posted by oakridge
Bert H.,
Sorry about that. My Zipper did have a receiver sight. It was not like the long Lyman #21 that I had on several Winchesters. I think it was the Lyman #56 sight. I don't think the bolt was made for a bolt peep sight.
No need to appologize... it is very easy to not remember all of the little details.
A Lyman No. 56 was a common sight on the Model 64.
Thanks for the update[:)]0 -
Bert,
Here are what I have,
1 Serial # 1837166
2 --Model 94--32 WIN SPL--
3 Checkered Butt Plate
4 Blank
5 Not drilled and tapped for sights
6 No
7 Barrel is marked --Winchester Proof Steel--
8 No saddle ring
1 Serial # 2149123
2 --Model-94--30-30 WIN--
3 Checkered Butt Plate
4 Blank
5 drilled and tapped for sights
6 No
7 Barrel is marked --Winchester Proof Steel--
8 No saddle ring
1 Serial # 1145276
2 30 W.C.F.-
3 It has the serrated steel butt plate
4 Type 6
5 drilled and tapped for sights
6 No
7 Barrel is marked Winchester Proof Steel
8 No saddle ring
1 Serial # 1393478
2 - Model 94 -30 W.C.F.-
3 It has the checkered steel butt plate
4 Blank
5 Not drilled or tapped for sights
6 No
7 Barrel is marked Winchester Proof Steel
8 No saddle ring
11 It has the flat band
1 Serial # 1234793
2 - Model 94 -30 W.C.F.-
3 Red rubber Butt Plate "Redhead brand Chicago"
4 Type 6
5 Not drilled or tapped for sights
6 No
7 Barrel is marked Winchester Proof Steel
8 No saddle ring
9 W on bottom
What butt plate should this rifle have?0 -
Hello Joe,
First, thank you very much for your interest, and for posting the information on your collection of Model 94s.
I have inserted my reply for each gun in blue below.
quote:Originally posted by joeoim
Bert,
Here are what I have,
1 Serial # 1837166 (1951)
2 --Model 94--32 WIN SPL--
3 Checkered Butt Plate
4 Blank
5 Not drilled and tapped for sights
6 No
7 Barrel is marked --Winchester Proof Steel--
8 No saddle ring
Standard production Sporting Carbine
1 Serial # 2149123 (circa 1955)
2 --Model-94--30-30 WIN--
3 Checkered Butt Plate
4 Blank
5 drilled and tapped for sights
6 No
7 Barrel is marked --Winchester Proof Steel--
8 No saddle ring
Standard Sporting Carbine. It would be interesting to know what the date stamp on the bottom of the barrel is.
1 Serial # 1145276 (September 23rd, 1937)
2 30 W.C.F.-
3 It has the serrated steel butt plate
4 Type 6
5 drilled and tapped for sights
6 No
7 Barrel is marked Winchester Proof Steel
8 No saddle ring
Standard Sporting Carbine
1 Serial # 1393478 (1946)
2 - Model 94 -30 W.C.F.-
3 It has the checkered steel butt plate
4 Blank
5 Not drilled or tapped for sights
6 No
7 Barrel is marked Winchester Proof Steel
8 No saddle ring
11 It has the flat band
Early production Flat-band Carbine.
1 Serial # 1234793 (July 9th, 1940)
2 - Model 94 -30 W.C.F.-
3 Red rubber Butt Plate "Redhead brand Chicago"
4 Type 6
5 Not drilled or tapped for sights
6 No
7 Barrel is marked Winchester Proof Steel
8 No saddle ring
9 W on bottom
Standard pre-war Sporting Carbine (except for the rubber recoil pad).
What butt plate should this rifle have? It should have the identical serrated steel butt plate that is on serial number 1145276.0 -
Thank-You Bert
My dates were off a little.
These old rifles put a lot of meat on the table.
So did the 25-35.0 -
quote:Originally posted by joeoim
Thank-You Bert
My dates were off a little.
These old rifles put a lot of meat on the table.
So did the 25-35.
Joe,
You are quite welcome[:)].
The two precise dates (for the two earliest serial numbers) come from the Polishing Room Serialization Records, and the other three dates are estimates based on barrel dates that I have verified thus far. If you are adept at the disassembly of your guns, I would appreciate it if you could check the 2-digit year number stamped on the bottom of the barrels of each of the latter three guns.0 -
Hi Bert: First let me say I applaud your efforts in gathering this information on the 94 and it's siblings. I hope you publish a summary of it one day. Let me add some information about my 94 Winchester Eastern Carbine, 32 Win Spl, barrel is dated under chamber '37', Winchester Proof Steel stamped on top, Serial Number 1135619, second and third lines of tang label are hyphonated, bottom tang stamped 'S' in front of trigger, reciever is NOT d/t for receiver sight, buttplate has horizontal serations. The information will bring a new dimension to collecting these fine Winchesters. Thanks again, 0 -
quote:Originally posted by Halfled
Hi Bert: First let me say I applaud your efforts in gathering this information on the 94 and it's siblings. I hope you publish a summary of it one day. Let me add some information about my 94 Winchester Eastern Carbine, 32 Win Spl, barrel is dated under chamber '37', Winchester Proof Steel stamped on top, Serial Number 1135619, second and third lines of tang label are hyphonated, bottom tang stamped 'S' in front of trigger, reciever is NOT d/t for receiver sight, buttplate has horizontal serations. The information will bring a new dimension to collecting these fine Winchesters. Thanks again,
I have already written a preliminary article that was published in early 2009 (in the WACA Collector magazine), and I have three follow-up articles that are 98% complete (they will also be published in the WACA Collector magazine in the next year or so). After those articles have been published, I will see what I can do to put together a summary in a format that I can post here on Gunbroker.
In regards to your Model 94 Sporting Carbine, serial number 1135619 is listed in the PR records as next to the last receiver serialized on July 15th, 1937. Everything you described is standard except the reference to "eastern". When Winchester discontinued the saddle ring as a standard item in early 1932, the "Saddle Ring Carbine" became the "Sporting Carbine". The term "Eastern Carbine" refers to those that were made (ordered) without a saddle ring when it was still a standard item.
Thank you very much for participating in my research survey. As of this moment, I now have a total of (234) Model 55s, (521) Model 64s, and (3046) Model 94s listed. The transition points (serial number range) for nearly all of the various production changes are very well defined at this point, and the extrapolated caliber production percentages have not changed much in the past 12-months or so.0
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