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Winchester Model 94, 55, & 64 Survey update

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Bert H.
Hello all.

I am researching/surveying all of the pre WW II production through post WW II era production Model 94s, Model 55s, and Model 64s that I can locate. For those of you who are interested and would like to participate in a survey concerning several different production changes made to the Models 94, 55, and 64, please review the information that I am specifically looking for, and then post your information here on this topic, or you can send it to me directly at Win1885@msn.com.

5/24/202 Edit 4: Well, here I am again, and still at it. As of today, I now have logged (surveyed) just shy of 25,000 specimens, and I still looking for more. For the past number of years, I have been collaborating with Robert (Bob) C. Renneberg, and have written and published a number of articles of my own discussing the Model 1894(94), Model 55, and Model 64 production. I have added serial numbers 1 - 7499 to my survey list (looking for the semi-rare "First" models. Please get in touch with me via email if you have an interest in supporting the research survey.

12/8/2014 Edit 3: I have surpassed 10,500 total serial numbers in this research survey, and I am still working towards reaching the 16,000 mark. Due to a welcome increase in the number of people who are actively assisting me with this research, I plan to continue this survey well beyond my original goal. Sometime early next year (2015), I will post the current results of the survey in an easy to read format.

9/24/2011 Edit 2: I am rapidly closing in on (5,000) total serial numbers in this survey, and I would like to surpass that mark before the end of this month. The various production numbers represented in the survey have firmed up considerably in this past year, and I do not believe that they will change by any significant % as the survey continues to progress. Still, it is my intention to keep this survey alive and growing until I reach the (16,120) total serial numbers surveyed mark (1% of the total numbers in the survey range). At that point, I will publish a statistical analysis reference document detailing my findings.

Edit 1: I have come to the realization that I need to ask all of the following questions...

1. The complete serial number (please, no partial serial numbers).
2. The exact caliber stamp marking.
3. The specific type of butt plate, e.g. Carbine, serrated steel shotgun style, flat checkered steel, hard rubber, or the checkered steel plate with the widows peak and diamond surrounding the lower screw hole.
4. The type (style) of the upper tang marking, e.g. type 5, 6, or 7, or if it is blank.
5. Is the left side of the receiver factory drilled & tapped for a peep sight?
6. Does it have U.S. martial or Canadian PCMR markings on the receiver frame?
7. Does it have a Nickel Steel or a Proof Steel marked barrel?
8. Does it have a saddle ring?
9. If in the 1,200,000 - 1,270,000 serial range, is the bottom of the receiver marked with a "W"?
10. If in the 1,260,000 - 1,330,000 serial range, does the leading "1" digit look like an "L"?
11. If in the 1,370,000 - 1,560,000 serial range, does it have a flat-band or a milled front barrel band?
12. If in the 1,700,000 - 1,770,000 serial range, does it have the long or the short forend stock?
13. If it is a Model 55, is it a Take Down or Solid frame?
14. If it is a Model 64, is it standard Rifle, a Deer Rifle (deluxe), a standard Carbine, or a deluxe Carbine?

More specifically, I am trying to determine the serial number transition points for the caliber markings on the barrel...

(1) "30 W.C.F." versus "30-30 WIN" marked barrels,

(2) "32 W.S." versus "32 WIN. SPL."

(3) "25-35 W.C.F." versus "25-35 WIN."

(4) The transition point from the traditional curved steel carbine butt plate, to the steel shotgun style with the horizontal cut lines (serrated), and again the later transition to the flat checkered steel plates.

(5) Upper Tang roll stamp types (e.g. Type 5, 6, 7, or blank)

(6) Those guns that were factory drilled & tapped for a receiver mounted peep sight (Lyman or Redfield).

(7) The transition from the milled front barrel band to the flat-band, and then back to the milled band.

(8) The exact serial range for the "W" stamped guns...

(9) The exact serial range for the leading "L" digit serial number stamped guns...

And finally, I am attempting to determine the precise serial number transition points for the Models 55 and 64.

If you own (or know of) a Model 94, 55, or 64 in the 1,000,000 - 2,700,000 serial range, please take a close look at it, and then either post, or send the information directly to me. Your name and information will remain anonymous if you email the information to me. I will post updated results in this Sticky topic as the survey progresses.

In closing, I would like to thank everyone who has contributed to this survey, and to all who particiapte in the future. [:)].

Bert H.
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Comments

571 comments

Date Votes
  • Bert H.
    quote:Originally posted by goatman1
    i was reading this post and i just wanted to know what the serial # would have been for the 13 made in 1944 and is it possible to find 1 of the 13 or are they all own by collectors

    p.s really find all this info very interesting keep it up Bert
    thanks


    Hello,

    The (13) serial numbers that were manufactured in 1944 are 1343184 - 1343196. However, not all of them were Model 94s. In fact, of the (13) serial numbers, I suspect that most of them were Model 64s. The reason for my suspicion is that I have found just one of the (13) 1944 made serial numbers, and it is a Model 64 Deer Rifle. Keep in mind that the Model 64 was serial numbered entirely within the Model 94 sequence.

    I have no idea who owns the one I found (it was in an auction listing), and I doubt very much that the other (12) are locked up in collections... more than likely they are simply in someone's gun cabinet.
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  • chipman
    I have a model 94 serial # 2596926. What year was this made? Previous owner had installed a side mounted scope would this affect the value much?
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  • Bert H.
    quote:Originally posted by chipman
    I have a model 94 serial # 2596926. What year was this made? Previous owner had installed a side mounted scope would this affect the value much?


    Your Model 94 was made in early 1963, just before Winchester retooled and began manufacturing the new (not improved) version.

    Yes, most definitely the side mounted scope affects the value... quite negatively. In fact, it permanently destroys any "collector" value, and relegates it to being nothing more than a "shooter" grade gun.
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  • lacr3am
    I have a model 94 for you.

    serial # 1017279
    32 W.S.
    Traditional curved steel butt plate
    Type 5 upper tang
    Not drilled & tapped
    No special markings
    Nickel steel barrel
    Has sadle ring

    I was wondering the DOM of it I'm a 3rd generation owner of it and plan to pass it down to the 4th generation when I go. Thanks
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  • Bert H.
    quote:Originally posted by lacr3am
    I have a model 94 for you.

    serial # 1017279
    32 W.S.
    Traditional curved steel butt plate
    Type 5 upper tang
    Not drilled & tapped
    No special markings
    Nickel steel barrel
    Has sadle ring

    I was wondering the DOM of it I'm a 3rd generation owner of it and plan to pass it down to the 4th generation when I go. Thanks


    Hello and thank you for posting[:)].

    Your Model 94 SRC was manufactured on February 24th, 1928, and it is completely standard.
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  • croweman0829
    i have one model 94 that fits your criteria, its serial number 1797256 has "MODEL 94 30-30 Win" on the barrel checkered metal buttplate. And if you could help me on these two it would be greatly appreciated. Winchester model 94 .32 W.S. #299476 nickel steel barrel with smokeless rear sight. and the other is a model 94 30-30 #397275 and is a 1/2 oct 1/2 rd bbl. thanks
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  • Bert H.
    quote:Originally posted by croweman0829
    i have one model 94 that fits your criteria, its serial number 1797256 has "MODEL 94 30-30 Win" on the barrel checkered metal buttplate. And if you could help me on these two it would be greatly appreciated. Winchester model 94 .32 W.S. #299476 nickel steel barrel with smokeless rear sight. and the other is a model 94 30-30 #397275 and is a 1/2 oct 1/2 rd bbl. thanks


    Your Model 94 is a 1951 vintage standard Carbine.

    Serial 299476 is a February 1906 vintage Model 1894, and serial 397275 is a May 1908 vintage Model 1894 Rifle.
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  • maltbyp
    Bert,
    I have a 94 #2307701, checkered butt plate. Can you tell me when it was manufactured?

    Also, I wish to purchase a 1931 94 for my father's b-day. Is #1071421 to #1079689 the correct range?
    Thanks so much for your help,
    Pat
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  • Bert H.
    quote:Originally posted by maltbyp
    Bert,
    I have a 94 #2307701, checkered butt plate. Can you tell me when it was manufactured?

    Also, I wish to purchase a 1931 94 for my father's b-day. Is #1071421 to #1079689 the correct range?
    Thanks so much for your help,
    Pat


    Hello Pat,

    Serial 2307701 is a 1958 vintage Model 94 (approximately July/August). What caliber is it?

    Yes, you have the correct serial number range for the year 1931.
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  • maltbyp
    Re: Winchester 94 #2307701 - it has 30 -30 WIN and proof steel stamped.
    Thanks again for your help,
    Pat
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  • Bert H.
    quote:Originally posted by maltbyp
    Re: Winchester 94 #2307701 - it has 30 -30 WIN and proof steel stamped.
    Thanks again for your help,
    Pat


    Thank you, and you are quite welcome[:)].
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  • croweman0829
    hey bert got another one for you, serial #872751 checkered buttplate and and a 3/4 mag. whats your take on this one?

    thanks,
    manuel
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  • Bert H.
    quote:Originally posted by croweman0829
    hey bert got another one for you, serial #872751 checkered buttplate and and a 3/4 mag. whats your take on this one?

    thanks,
    manuel


    Not enough information to formulate an accurate assesment. Is it a Rifle or a Carbine? If a Carbine, does it have a saddle ring? Caliber? Barrel length?

    If you can, please post a few pictures.
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  • croweman0829
    sorry i didn't put more info, kinda excited with the find and price! its a 30-30 carbine, no saddle ring oh and i made a mistake its a 2/3 mag. I'm pretty sure its standard carbine barrel length as i had it next to a .32 ws carbine and it was teh same length. Sorry if its kinda vague I'm going off of memory as i have to wait 10 days to pick up.[:(] I will definitely post pics when i have the gun in hand.
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  • Bert H.
    quote:Originally posted by croweman0829
    sorry i didn't put more info, kinda excited with the find and price! its a 30-30 carbine, no saddle ring oh and i made a mistake its a 2/3 mag. I'm pretty sure its standard carbine barrel length as i had it next to a .32 ws carbine and it was teh same length. Sorry if its kinda vague I'm going off of memory as i have to wait 10 days to pick up.[:(] I will definitely post pics when i have the gun in hand.


    I will look forward to seeing the pictures.
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  • maltbyp
    Bert,
    I found a 1931 Winchester 94 with a gunsight I am not sure is original. It is pictured below. Could you take a look and tell me what you think?
    Thanks,
    Pat

    164338.jpg
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  • Bert H.
    quote:Originally posted by maltbyp
    Bert,
    I found a 1931 Winchester 94 with a gunsight I am not sure is original. It is pictured below. Could you take a look and tell me what you think?
    Thanks,
    Pat


    Most definitely not a factory original rear sight. What is the serial number on this Carbine?
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  • maltbyp
    Re: Most definitely not a factory original rear sight. What is the serial number on this Carbine?

    1074530
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  • 7x57Hunter
    Bert,

    What year did they switch from the "checkered" hammer to the serrated(lined)hammer? I saw a flat band 30-30 with the checkered hammer the other day and I was wondering if it was original or not. I didn't get the serial number, I'll have to check it out again.

    Jon
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  • Bert H.
    quote:Originally posted by 7x57Hunter
    Bert,

    What year did they switch from the "checkered" hammer to the serrated(lined)hammer? I saw a flat band 30-30 with the checkered hammer the other day and I was wondering if it was original or not. I didn't get the serial number, I'll have to check it out again.

    Jon



    Hello Jon,

    Circa 1946. The early Flat-band carbines may be found with the old style hammer.
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  • steamburner
    Bert,
    I have been reading some of these post dating back a few years. If you are still researching, I have a S/N 1336130 handed down to me from my Dad. It is marked Model 94-30 W.C.F.- Serrated butt plate,Tang #7, Milled band,let me know if you want pictures. What year? and why are some people afraid to post S/n?
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  • kylew
    Was made in 1945. Bert will give you the exact date. He will ask additional questions. Cool gun
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  • Bert H.
    quote:Originally posted by steamburner
    Bert,
    I have been reading some of these post dating back a few years. If you are still researching, I have a S/N 1336130 handed down to me from my Dad. It is marked Model 94-30 W.C.F.- Serrated butt plate,Tang #7, Milled band,let me know if you want pictures. What year? and why are some people afraid to post S/n?


    Hello,

    Yes, I am still researching, and thank you very much for sharing the information on your Model 94 Carbine.

    Serial number 1336130 was manufactured on June 3rd, 1942.

    Most of the Model 94s that I have surveyed in that serial number range are PCMR (Pacific Coast Militia Ranger) Carbines. By chance does your Carbine have a broad arrow marking on the left front side of the receiver frame?

    In regards to your question about why some people are afraid to post a serial number, it is my opinion that they suffer from ignorant paranioa.
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  • kylew
    steamburner, you can always trust Bert. I knew as soon as I posted I was wrong and 42 was the correct year. Are you looking to sell or just after info. I assume it's a carbine or is it perhaps a rifle?
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  • steamburner
    quote:Originally posted by kylew
    steamburner, you can always trust Bert. I knew as soon as I posted I was wrong and 42 was the correct year. Are you looking to sell or just after info. I assume it's a carbine or is it perhaps a rifle?


    Good question Kyle, it's a lever action,looks like a rifle, what makes it a carbine? I have to visit the local gun shop first to have the scope removed and hopefully restore the value that Bert indicated the scope removed. Yes I think I will sell it. The wife hates guns in the house and my hunting days are past. Thanks, Ken
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  • kylew
    Steamburner, I need to read more carefully, You mention that it had milled bands. That makes it a carbine. A rifle would have the mag tube attached by a dovetail on the bottom of the barrel at the end of the tube. A rifle would also most likely have a 26" barrel. The carbine has the band that goes clear around the barrel. If you decide to sell it let me know when it goes up on the GB site. I may be interested depending on the condition etc. Kyle
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  • steamburner
    Bert, Thank you for dating my gun, there is no PCM arrow on the side, does that mean it is not from the Pacific Coast Militia Reserve? Thanks again. Ken
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  • Bert H.
    quote:Originally posted by steamburner
    Bert, Thank you for dating my gun, there is no PCM arrow on the side, does that mean it is not from the Pacific Coast Militia Reserve? Thanks again. Ken


    Ken,

    You are quite welcome[:)].

    By the year 1938, all Winchester Model 94s were Carbines (the Sporting Rifle was discontinued in December of 1937).

    If your Carbine does dot have a broad arrow stamp on the left side of the receiver and butt stock, it is a not a PCMR gun.
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  • croweman0829
    hey there bert i sent you an email to win1885 with those pics of my 94 carbine half mag.
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  • Bert H.
    quote:Originally posted by croweman0829
    hey there bert i sent you an email to win1885 with those pics of my 94 carbine half mag.


    I received them and replied to you.
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