mormon neighbor and one world
I have written about my Mormon neighbors in a number of posts. Very good neighbors. Bill and his wife have four kids: a boy 21, a girl 17, girl 15 and a boy 12. Kids are very nice, helpful and repesctful. They remind me of what most kids used to be like.
Their son just got back from being a missionary. I asked him where he was living and he said he was a mormon missionary in Salt Lake City, Utah! I thought most people in Utah were moromns. I asked him what a missionary did in Utah, kind of tongue-in-cheek. He said he went there on a mission to covert the hispanics. I asked of there was a lot of hispanics there and he said there were. "Are they citizens?" I asked. He said many were not. We talked about the growth of illegal immigrants in our country. I told him I felt it was a problem. In the meantime Bill, his dad, came out to visit with us.
They did not agree that the illegals were a problem four our country. I was surprised at this since I thought mormans were more patriotic. He even said they helped illegals get citizenship if they joined the mormon church. I like my neighbors BUT I told them that this was wrong. How many illegals would use the mormon church to gain citizenship? Would they flock to Utah to join up so they could be citizens for free? Get the welfare benefits by being mormon?
The final shock came when they told me the moroman church had people in the goverment to help this along. Bill said they were trying to convert people all over the world and it did not matter what nation they were from. I said this was wel and good BUT they were converting criminals. If they are here illegally it is a crime, no?
Does this stick in anyone elses craw?
Their son just got back from being a missionary. I asked him where he was living and he said he was a mormon missionary in Salt Lake City, Utah! I thought most people in Utah were moromns. I asked him what a missionary did in Utah, kind of tongue-in-cheek. He said he went there on a mission to covert the hispanics. I asked of there was a lot of hispanics there and he said there were. "Are they citizens?" I asked. He said many were not. We talked about the growth of illegal immigrants in our country. I told him I felt it was a problem. In the meantime Bill, his dad, came out to visit with us.
They did not agree that the illegals were a problem four our country. I was surprised at this since I thought mormans were more patriotic. He even said they helped illegals get citizenship if they joined the mormon church. I like my neighbors BUT I told them that this was wrong. How many illegals would use the mormon church to gain citizenship? Would they flock to Utah to join up so they could be citizens for free? Get the welfare benefits by being mormon?
The final shock came when they told me the moroman church had people in the goverment to help this along. Bill said they were trying to convert people all over the world and it did not matter what nation they were from. I said this was wel and good BUT they were converting criminals. If they are here illegally it is a crime, no?
Does this stick in anyone elses craw?
0
-
I don't like it, not 1 little bit. Although i doubt you will ever change their minds. Brain-washed from birth, no doubt, by their Church... It's a cryin-shame...[V] 0 -
I guess the end justifies the means.
Pretty much human nature. For them... Any route to salvation justifies whatever it may take to get there. Funny how our personal interests supersede the rule of law at times, isn't it?
This isn't to pick on Mormons. We all have our weaknesses. I'm merely in the camp where salvation through citizenship isn't an option.
By the way... I mean anything illegal here. I have no objection to assisting those who seek legal citizenship. The problem is that one cannot seek legal status if here illegally.
Thus a conundrum. How do you make a criminal an uncriminal? I say that it really can't be done. Not in the context of what was shared, anyway!0 -
I have no problem with missionaries working to convert people who break the law. Isn't that what missionary work is?
Do illegals need God less than citizens?
I don't know whether it is right or wrong for the church to help them gain legal citizenship. It sounds ok to me though as long as they aren't giving them sanctuary from the law.0 -
I have no problem with legal immigrants and if the immigration code book is anything like the IRS codes I think they'd need all the help they can get. AS long as nobody is breaking the law, as long as the Mormons are just helping the illegals wade through the paperwork and idiotic bureaucracy then I'm OK with it. 0 -
This is not a religious issue to me. Not trying to make it one. My concern stems from providing legitimacy/citizenship to illegal aliens through short cuts.
quote:Originally posted by john in jax
I have no problem with legal immigrants and if the immigration code book is anything like the IRS codes I think they'd need all the help they can get. AS long as nobody is breaking the law, as long as the Mormons are just helping the illegals wade through the paperwork and idiotic bureaucracy then I'm OK with it.0 -
I know from hard experience that mormons will do anything to advance their membership. They are duty bound to OBEY the leadership, to not do so means excommunication. Remember this when you vote. The Dems have a problem offering Hillary when they know damned well we'll get BIll and the Republicans have the same problem with Romney. You are expecting to get him when in fact you are getting the presidency of the LDS church and twelve 'apostles'. The Mormons know this, the rest are blissfully unaware. Ask Romney to explain the 'command' structure of his church and he will waffle---guarnateed. There's a reason fo that. Be Aware.
Clouder..0 -
This appears to me to be a prohibited "church and state" activity ??
Doug0 -
One reason there are so many illegals is that for many people there is no legal path.
My wife's niece has been trying to get here from Honduras for seventeen years. She has a daughter & four grandchildren that are U.S. citizens. We kept trying to find out about the statis of her application & the reply was that they were not up to her yet.
Then she got a letter telling her that HER VISA HAD EXPIRED. They never told her that it had been approved & even when it was in effect their web page kept saying it was pending. Now they want her to start all over including paying all the fees again.0 -
LDS church has shortcuts for the shortcuts
they have people all over the country hell all over the world in very high places. there is strength in numbers they have preached this since the day they where run out of Nauvoo IL. they will do anything they can to boaster their numbers weather it on the level or not.
these are the people who invented poligamy, IMO I don't think we want them running anything exspecially this country.0 -
Coming from a very active Latter Day Saint/Mormon
get your facts straight www.lds.org
Show Index
Political Neutrality
Child Abuse
Abortion
Same-Gender Attraction
Embryonic Stem-cell Research
Euthanasia and Prolonging Life
Capital Punishment
Political Neutrality
The Church's mission is to preach the gospel of Jesus Christ, not to elect politicians. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is neutral in matters of party politics. This applies in all of the many nations in which it is established.
The Church does not:
Endorse, promote or oppose political parties, candidates or platforms.
Allow its church buildings, membership lists or other resources to be used for partisan political purposes.
Attempt to direct its members as to which candidate or party they should give their votes to. This policy applies whether or not a candidate for office is a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
Attempt to direct or dictate to a government leader.
The Church does:
Encourage its members to play a role as responsible citizens in their communities, including becoming informed about issues and voting in elections.
Expect its members to engage in the political process in an informed and civil manner, respecting the fact that members of the Church come from a variety of backgrounds and experiences and may have differences of opinion in partisan political matters.
Request candidates for office not to imply that their candidacy or platforms are endorsed by the Church.
Reserve the right as an institution to address, in a nonpartisan way, issues that it believes have significant community or moral consequences or that directly affect the interests of the Church.
In the United States, where nearly half of the world's Latter-day Saints live, it is customary for the Church at each national election to issue a letter to be read to all congregations encouraging its members to vote, but emphasizing the Church's neutrality in partisan political matters.
Relationships With Government
Elected officials who are Latter-day Saints make their own decisions and may not necessarily be in agreement with one another or even with a publicly stated Church position. While the Church may communicate its views to them, as it may to any other elected official, it recognizes that these officials still must make their own choices based on their best judgment and with consideration of the constituencies whom they were elected to represent.
Modern scriptural references to the role of government: Doctrine and Covenants, Section 1340 -
It's true, we are all over the world. Over $905 million in aid to people all over the world. We are a world wide church.
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints provides relief and development projects for humanitarian purposes in countries all over the world. Projects operate without regard to the nationality or religion of the recipients.
Humanitarian service may include emergency response to natural disasters, such as an earthquake or a tsunami, or man-made disasters, such as the effects of war and famine. It may also be part of a longer-term effort to meet serious and more entrenched human needs, such as the need to alleviate disease.
Within hours of a disaster, the Church works with local government officials to determine what supplies and food are needed. Materials are then immediately sent to the area.
After urgent needs are met, the Church looks for additional ways to help with the long-term needs of the community. The Church's approach is to help people become self-reliant by teaching skills and providing resources for a self-sustained life.
Donations, principally from Church members but also from people around the world, are used to make relief projects possible. One hundred percent of the donations given to the Church's humanitarian services are used for relief efforts. The Church absorbs its own overhead costs.
The humanitarian services arm of the Church sponsors five ongoing global projects to help people become more self-reliant. Initiatives include neonatal resuscitation training, clean water projects, wheelchair distribution, vision treatment and measles vaccinations.0 -
I'm not sure what the big deal is. For people who's calling in life is to preach the Gospel, their primary goal is to help others reach salvation, not to aid in the enforcement of immigration policy. 0 -
Okay, I'll bite on this one. Normally I lurk but ignorance irks me.
Up front, I am a "Mormon." I do not support Mitt Romney because he is a Mormon, nor do I believe that he would be manipulated by the Church leaders if elected any more than the pope would manipulate a Catholic if elected. Personally, I care to know more about his policies, plans, record, past actions, etc. So far what I have seen I have not been impressed. In talking with family members and friends, nobody I talk with is enthusiastic about him as a President simply because he is LDS. In spite of what some think, "Mormons" are capable of rational thought and discourse on the merits of the discussion not a bunch of ignorant sheep.
With regard to the illegals, I disagree with the neighbor who didn't think that being in the country illegally was wrong. Most of the Mormons I know are very patriotic and would agree that doing anything against the law of any country is bad. I SUSPECT that what is really happening is that the LDS Church MAY be providing a service to help them wade through the necessary paperwork to become legal- not shortcuts necessarily, but having an advocate who knows the procedure can help. As far as I'm concerned, if they are here illegally then they should be hauled off and deported, and required to follow the proper, LEGAL path to be here properly.
Contrary to what some of you apparently think, Mormons don't blindly follow the Church leaders. We are free to think for ourselves and do what we feel is right and proper. You think we are brainwashed? Look in the mirror and figure out who told you that (i.e. brainwashed you into thinking that). There are plenty of people in the Church who disagree with the leaders who don't get excommunicated. But, like any organization (including Gunbroker), if you don't follow the rules you can be banned, shunned, or kicked out.
BTW, in case you are wondering, or probably know, the biggest idiot in Congress- Harry Reid- is a Mormon. I suppose that some of you think that he is toeing the line and doing exactly what "The Church" tells him to do. If he were, his direction would be completely opposite of what he is doing now. Yet, he is considered a member in good standing.
Sheesh.0 -
The Mormons just want more members/money! They are willing to sell the USA out for Money[xx(][V][xx(][V]!!!!
Dean0 -
you have to remember, the whole original theory of mormons was that the hispanic indians of the america's were the lost tribe that they were sent to convert. (yes its odd.)
so, that would explain why they are so helpful to the illegals...
they want to get them believing in the mormon church.
my biggest erk with mormons is that they act like they have the patent on family living. they ACT good, LOOK good, but are sinners and mistake makers just like everyone.....a common problem when you dont put JESUS CHRIST first in your life or you family.
BEING christlike and ACTING christlike are two different matters. obeying GODS LAW and obeying MORMON DOCTRINE are NOT the same. since mormon doctrine changes with the wind, i'll go on the time proven one...THE BIBLE. and my bible tells me to obey the laws of the land and to pray for the government in place to oversee and direct you.0 -
weeell, I think it's kind of dicey. they want to 'help' illegal immigrants. ok; they want to help them gain legal status. sort of ok. most of the problems with illegals (besides the fact that they're here) come directly from their illega status: they can commit crimes and they're hard to find, politicians want to give them money and social services but they aren't paying taxes, etc etc. so it would be a good thing to get them legal status. yes they should be rounded up and sent to the border in the first place. but what's the next best thing? getting them legalized.
religious organizations do a lot of good for needy people, in return for ministering to them. the Salvation Army gives food and shelter to the homeless. other churches send food, money, clothing, medicine, etc and of course missionaries to very poor people in other countries who desperately need it. is that a bad thing? not really.
so, I would say what they are doing is along those lines. it's not entirely bad.
the mormons you talked to said that illegal immigrants weren't a problem. (they are) perhaps they don't see it as "a problem" because a) it's not harming them because they have what they think is a solution, and b) they think they're in the process implementing that solution.
let's say tomorrow the gov't says from now on, they're rounding up all the illegals and sending them back to wherever they came from. and the next day they do in fact start bussing thousands of them back to mexico. and soon the figures are that the illegals are declining by 10% every month. at that point, would you say "illegals are a problem"? no.
anyways, "does it stick in my craw"? no, because I'm not in the business of running around making sure that everybody sees things like I do. let them think what they want.
what I don't like would be the fact that "the moroman church had people in the goverment to help this along". if they are 'helping' illegals gain legal status with illegal procedures, that's wrong, that's abuse of governmental power, and now we're stuck with who knows how many "legals" that should in fact still be "illegal".0 -
quote:Originally posted by bobski
you have to remember, the whole original theory of mormons was that the hispanic indians of the america's were the lost tribe that they were sent to convert. (yes its odd.)
so, that would explain why they are so helpful to the illegals...
they want to get them believing in the mormon church.
my biggest erk with mormons is that they act like they have the patent on family living. they ACT good, LOOK good, but are sinners and mistake makers just like everyone.....a common problem when you dont put JESUS CHRIST first in your life or you family.
BEING christlike and ACTING christlike are two different matters. obeying GODS LAW and obeying MORMON DOCTRINE are NOT the same. since mormon doctrine changes with the wind, i'll go on the time proven one...THE BIBLE. and my bible tells me to obey the laws of the land and to pray for the government in place to oversee and direct you.
99.9% of so-called "christians" I've seen (pick any flavor) do not follow the same God's word they say they ascribe to.0 -
Would someone please get rid of the those URL's? It's impossible to read anything... 0 -
quote:Originally posted by buschmaster
quote:
99.9% of so-called "christians" I've seen (pick any flavor) do not follow the same God's word they say they ascribe to.
Who's the .1% Christian that you know?0 -
quote:Originally posted by Rockatansky
Would someone please get rid of the those URL's? It's impossible to read anything...
tinyurl.com0 -
quote:Originally posted by Oklahoma223
Who's the .1 Christian that you know?
I've met a handful out of my entire lifetime, can't remember who and I wasn't really paying attention. currently I can't name one who does, out of all the christians this world is infiltrated with.0 -
I am not attacking mormons or their religion. Didnt mean that. Was concerned some mormon church people were helping illegals become legal through some back-door/unknown expediency. I said my neighbor was a good guy. I just don't agree that we are "all the same the world over". I am tired of Americans taking it in the shorts and living by the book while illegals and deadbeat citizens benefit from bull@#$% social programs they never pay to support.
Not a dig against all mormons.0 -
HARRY REID IS MORMON?!?[:0]?![B)] What the hell happend to him!!!
[:0]!>A government that is too paralyzed to protect its citizens and too afraid to allow them the means to protect themsleves has lost the moral right govern?
quote:Originally posted by Rocky4winds
Okay, I'll bite on this one. Normally I lurk but ignorance irks me.
Up front, I am a "Mormon." I do not support Mitt Romney because he is a Mormon, nor do I believe that he would be manipulated by the Church leaders if elected any more than the pope would manipulate a Catholic if elected. Personally, I care to know more about his policies, plans, record, past actions, etc. So far what I have seen I have not been impressed. In talking with family members and friends, nobody I talk with is enthusiastic about him as a President simply because he is LDS. In spite of what some think, "Mormons" are capable of rational thought and discourse on the merits of the discussion not a bunch of ignorant sheep.
With regard to the illegals, I disagree with the neighbor who didn't think that being in the country illegally was wrong. Most of the Mormons I know are very patriotic and would agree that doing anything against the law of any country is bad. I SUSPECT that what is really happening is that the LDS Church MAY be providing a service to help them wade through the necessary paperwork to become legal- not shortcuts necessarily, but having an advocate who knows the procedure can help. As far as I'm concerned, if they are here illegally then they should be hauled off and deported, and required to follow the proper, LEGAL path to be here properly.
Contrary to what some of you apparently think, Mormons don't blindly follow the Church leaders. We are free to think for ourselves and do what we feel is right and proper. You think we are brainwashed? Look in the mirror and figure out who told you that (i.e. brainwashed you into thinking that). There are plenty of people in the Church who disagree with the leaders who don't get excommunicated. But, like any organization (including Gunbroker), if you don't follow the rules you can be banned, shunned, or kicked out.
BTW, in case you are wondering, or probably know, the biggest idiot in Congress- Harry Reid- is a Mormon. I suppose that some of you think that he is toeing the line and doing exactly what "The Church" tells him to do. If he were, his direction would be completely opposite of what he is doing now. Yet, he is considered a member in good standing.
Sheesh.0 -
I have to say, that being a mormon does not mean you are for growth through illegal means. I too am a mormon. I served a mission in southern florida. While we taught and baptised many illegals, they were always 100% encouraged to find and work out the legalities of thier status. The teaching of Jesus Christ aren't ment for a select few. You might need to brush up on some world history; remember the crusades? how about the spanish inquisistion. Nothing like Forece to make belivers. LDS church does not force someone to believe, but teaches. They also believe in obeying the laws of the land, there for we do not harbor illegals nor do we encourage illegal citizenship. We will encourge all those who join to obey the lasw of the land and fix their illegal status or go home. 0 -
Hey man, thanks for this post. I regretted bring it up since I heard it from one mormon guy. This illegal invasion has me riding herd on a lot of issues. Your post is fresh air.
BUT WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO HARRY REID? You don't have to answer this one. [:0]
quote:Originally posted by AHansen
I have to say, that being a mormon does not mean you are for growth through illegal means. I too am a mormon. I served a mission in southern florida. While we taught and baptised many illegals, they were always 100% encouraged to find and work out the legalities of thier status. The teaching of Jesus Christ aren't ment for a select few. You might need to brush up on some world history; remember the crusades? how about the spanish inquisistion. Nothing like Forece to make belivers. LDS church does not force someone to believe, but teaches. They also believe in obeying the laws of the land, there for we do not harbor illegals nor do we encourage illegal citizenship. We will encourge all those who join to obey the lasw of the land and fix their illegal status or go home.0 -
Harry Reid was dropped on his head as a baby. Personally I think he is one of the bad apples on the barrel. I know there are many mormons the are dems. But I personally don't think you can be a good mormon and be a dem at the same time. 0 -
I think mormons are some of the nicest religious folk I've met, and they live a cleaner life than other christians. 0 -
That or maybe his folks made him sit down to pee. [;)]
quote:Originally posted by AHansen
Harry Reid was dropped on his head as a baby. Personally I think he is one of the bad apples on the barrel. I know there are many mormons the are dems. But I personally don't think you can be a good mormon and be a dem at the same time.0 -
Ok Dutchman, I'll forgive you, That was dang funny. 0 -
Once in awhile I can come up with a good one. Have a good Thanksgiving AHansen.
quote:Originally posted by AHansen
Ok Dutchman, I'll forgive you, That was dang funny.0
Please sign in to leave a comment.
Comments
65 comments