Suicidal and or Dangerous?
If you knew someone was very suicidal and or a danger to themself or their family or even the public due to a mental illness, and you knew they had in their possesion a firearm, would you try to remove the firearm from that persons possesion if you had the oppourtunity or would you ignore it and hope for the best.
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Maybe if it were the heat of the moment, but otherwise, no. That's something cops get paid to do. 0 -
yes , i would. i would take any dangerous weapon away from someone who was an immediate threat to others. 0 -
As part of my job, I have had to do it. 0 -
No.
Doug0 -
I would do neither for a suicidal person. I would talk to them, and try to help them in any way i could with whatever had them so down, even if it just meant asking them about it and letting them explain. People are so afraid and uninformed about suicide that many people will just ignore the topic, and that can make a suicidal person feel alone and isolated, which makes the situtation worse.
If they were a danger to others, i would get the guns away from them.0 -
Wait, what type of gun(s) do they have? If it's one I wanted, like a nice 1911 or .44 Magnum I might.... 0 -
If it's a good friend or relative, the short answer is YES!
Cops can only do it if he/she is "Baker Acted".
I had a good friend who placed a 1911 in his mouth, Christmas eve 1983. He is forever 22. All my circle of friends knew he was depressed and acting "crazy". He had drug/alcohol problems. He was arrested 3 times for DUI and lost his license for 5 years. His GF left him a week prior.
We all knew about his problems. We kinda left him alone since he wasn't really nice to be around while high.
In hindsight, had we or his family done something (take his firearms away), he may very well be with us today.
RIP David V.0 -
Depends. If it were a close family member, I would, and I have. Several years ago after my Mom died, my Dad was very depressed, and doing some extrememly self-destructive stuff, and drinking heavilly. We (my brother, sister and I) decided that at that time, he would need to hit rock bottom before he would sober up, but that he did not need a weapon "handy," should his self-destructive behavior evolve into suicidal ideations.
Eventualy, he hit rock bottom, went into the hospital, then to a 28-day program.
After he sobered up, we gave them back.
He thanks us quite often for "saving his life"....
Of course, there are other means of ending one's life, should one so choose to do so, but I could not have lived with myself if I knew we could have done something, but didn't.0 -
Just like murder, if someone is determined to do it, they will.
The tool is irrelevant.
This is a serious anti-Second Amendment argument.
Doug0 -
someone was very suicidal and or a danger to themself or their family or even the public due to a mental illness
The danger to others part is a no-brainer. That person loses the gun until he or she gets it back under control. Gun ownership is not an absolute right. When you're loading your car with firearms and screaming about how you're headed to the airport to make everybody pay, you lose the gun.
The suicide issues is more complicated. There, setting aside obligations to family and others and emotional pain, nobody else is in danger of being hurt. The right to do what you want to with your life is the most essential right you have. Choosing to end your life early is, in my thinking, an essential right. If a person finds out that he has cancer and will spend the next six months in intractible pain and piling up medical bills, then I think choosing to end his life before things get awful is a reasonable choice.
What truly is a shame, though, is that people are forced to do so with a gun or poison. Fundamentalist religious leaders, Catholics mostly, shove their views on the rest of us and prohibit people from dying a peaceful, graceful death with a physican's assistance.
To summarize, a danger to others, and he loses it. A danger to himself, it depends.0 -
did it once, and I'd do it again.
Ben0 -
mlincoln,
Catholics are not fundamentalists. The two are on opposite ends of the spectrum.0 -
I have no sympathy for suicidal people.
Considering my mother threatened to suck start my dads 357 Python from the time I was pretty young and I didn't take the gun away. No I'd have to say that I wouldn't. I might advise to use a high building or cliff because I wouldn't want more ammo for the anti-gunners. The only sympathy I gave my mother was to tell her I would piss on her grave and deal to with things and move on. Life's about the fight, good and bad, that's what makes it so much worth it. At my fathers funeral one of his songs was the Dance by Garth Brooks, wonderfull song and meaningfull if you listen to the words.
I'm not sure what I'd do if I thought he would harm other people. What could you do? If he doesn't want to let you take the guns what can you do until he commits a crime?0 -
"Gun ownership is not an absolute right. "
-mlincoln
Yes it is.
Doug0 -
For some of us, the Tarasoff Ruling (duty to warn) is a legally binding obligation...
http://www.forensicpsychology.org/exports/Tarasoff_duty_to_warn.htm
[:(]0 -
Ive done both more than once. 0 -
My Dad broke his hip in ten places. It required cadaver bones and ten cables to put back together.
And while Dad has had lots of painful operations over the years, this time, the pain must have been very intense....for out of his own mouth, repeatedly, he asked us to bring him one of his guns.
I determined to have nothing to do with hurting him, or allowing him to hurt himself, so I picked up his guns and as far as he's concerned, I'm cleaning them for him.
Gonna take a long time to get them properly clean.
Sahagan0 -
Of course. Only an idiot or coward wouldn't. If they are determined to take themselves out, I want to make it real difficult for them to take anyone else out too. 0 -
"Gun ownership is not an absolute right. "
-mlincoln
Yes it is.
Doug
Hey, Doug, you're totally right. And the freedom of speech is an absolute right as well, isn't it? Why don't you prove both by calling up a government building and saying that you plan on shooting a high-ranking government offical and that you'll be driving to the building with a gun in your vehicle? Be sure to give your name, license plate, and your route.
Then you can post on here how terribly wrong I am. You may have some trouble typing with the bracelets on, but I'm sure you'll manage.0 -
quote:Originally posted by Doug Wilson
Just like murder, if someone is determined to do it, they will.
The tool is irrelevant.
This is a serious anti-Second Amendment argument.
Doug
+10 -
Suicidal people are a danger to everyone around them if they do not get help.
How many times have you seen where a coworker or spouse kills a person or several before they commit suicide.
Murder suicide.
I don't believe suicidal people should have a firearm until they are in their right mind.0 -
quote:Originally posted by Kodiakk
I have no sympathy for suicidal people.
wow, that's a harsh statement and i take great offense to that for reasons i don't care to explain to someone of your sentiment.0 -
quote:Originally posted by hisbigbootygirl
quote:Originally posted by Kodiakk
I have no sympathy for suicidal people.
wow, that's a harsh statement and i take great offense to that for reasons i don't care to explain to someone of your sentiment.
I've seen that attitude before. I don't want to get too head shrinky, but i've seen some people who i am convinced are mad at a family member for "deserting them" when it may have been them who deserted the family member, adding to their despair. It's easier to get mad at the suicidal person than yourself.
Kodiakk, i am not saying that this describes you, and have no hard feeling toward you. I am just giving my opinion, and respect your right to give yours.0 -
quote:Originally posted by Doug Wilson
This is a serious anti-Second Amendment argument.
Agreed.
Is this the same crowd that is generally against ammending current gun-ownership rules so that mental status would be considered before being able to buy a gun? Let's make up our minds. Does the fact that you know the person in this scenario change your principals?0 -
quote:Originally posted by LKB3rd
quote:Originally posted by hisbigbootygirl
quote:Originally posted by Kodiakk
I have no sympathy for suicidal people.
wow, that's a harsh statement and i take great offense to that for reasons i don't care to explain to someone of your sentiment.
I've seen that attitude before. I don't want to get too head shrinky, but i've seen some people who i am convinced are mad at a family member for "deserting them" when it may have been them who deserted the family member, adding to their despair. It's easier to get mad at the suicidal person than yourself.
Kodiakk, i am not saying that this describes you, and have no hard feeling toward you. I am just giving my opinion, and respect your right to give yours.
Bigbootygirl, why would it offend you that I feel that way? You and I have no family or ties in anyway, so why would you care? Why would you care of someone I know commited suicide and thought they wasted their life and no consideration for those around them? Why should I care about them if they didn't even care about themselves? I can't comprehend your logic.
LKB3rd, first of all no hard feelings at all. It was a good guess, however I'm not sure if that describes me as I have never had someone commit suicide in my family. My mother threatened for years and it made me feel she was very selfish and lower then dirt for putting a child through that. The only reason why I still talk with my mother is the bible and what it says about respecting your parents. I have alot of issues with this since I've basically been on my own since I was 12 years old, but I try and am working on it.
My brother in law had his mother commit suicide. He deals with it in a ok manner, but he is mad about it and you can see it still hurts him over 20 years later.
Why I have no sympathy is why would you do that to people you love? The only exception I can think of were I would feel sympathy is a terminal illness and alot of pain, however I really don't see that as suicide either since they are just speeding up the end result.
I'm actually really sorry if I offend anyone, this is just how I feel about it.0 -
quote:Originally posted by rhythm_guy
quote:Originally posted by Doug Wilson
This is a serious anti-Second Amendment argument.
Agreed.
Is this the same crowd that is generally against ammending current gun-ownership rules so that mental status would be considered before being able to buy a gun? Let's make up our minds. Does the fact that you know the person in this scenario change your principals?
Thats what some people would like you to think but the truth is "mental status" has been part of the deciding factor since the Gun Control Act of 1968
It has been for 40 years.0 -
May not like it, but the Tarasoff ruling set many a legal precedent: many of us do have the duty to inform. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by Kodiakk
quote:Originally posted by LKB3rd
quote:Originally posted by hisbigbootygirl
quote:Originally posted by Kodiakk
I have no sympathy for suicidal people.
wow, that's a harsh statement and i take great offense to that for reasons i don't care to explain to someone of your sentiment.
I've seen that attitude before. I don't want to get too head shrinky, but i've seen some people who i am convinced are mad at a family member for "deserting them" when it may have been them who deserted the family member, adding to their despair. It's easier to get mad at the suicidal person than yourself.
Kodiakk, i am not saying that this describes you, and have no hard feeling toward you. I am just giving my opinion, and respect your right to give yours.
Bigbootygirl, why would it offend you that I feel that way? You and I have no family or ties in anyway, so why would you care? Why would you care of someone I know commited suicide and thought they wasted their life and no consideration for those around them? Why should I care about them if they didn't even care about themselves? I can't comprehend your logic.
The answer to the question in red is: I do care if that happened to you because I know what it's like. your other questions are just rediculous.
I just think that your mind set about suicidal people, is all wrong. You should want these people to get help so that they won't hurt other people in the way that you, and I, and soooooooooo many others have been hurt.
You should forgive your mother. I did almost immediately, even through all the pain.
as a matter of a fact, today was her birthday and i miss her very much.
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Bigbootygirl, we disagree. The other questions are not rediculous, they are the way my mind works. I'll leave this alone as I can see this hits close to home.
Edit: By the way about my mother, there is a long history there that I'm trying to work out and get over. As I said I'm trying.0 -
quote:Originally posted by Kodiakk
quote:Originally posted by LKB3rd
quote:Originally posted by hisbigbootygirl
quote:Originally posted by Kodiakk
I have no sympathy for suicidal people.
wow, that's a harsh statement and i take great offense to that for reasons i don't care to explain to someone of your sentiment.
I've seen that attitude before. I don't want to get too head shrinky, but i've seen some people who i am convinced are mad at a family member for "deserting them" when it may have been them who deserted the family member, adding to their despair. It's easier to get mad at the suicidal person than yourself.
Kodiakk, i am not saying that this describes you, and have no hard feeling toward you. I am just giving my opinion, and respect your right to give yours.
Bigbootygirl, why would it offend you that I feel that way? You and I have no family or ties in anyway, so why would you care? Why would you care of someone I know commited suicide and thought they wasted their life and no consideration for those around them? Why should I care about them if they didn't even care about themselves? I can't comprehend your logic.
LKB3rd, first of all no hard feelings at all. It was a good guess, however I'm not sure if that describes me as I have never had someone commit suicide in my family. My mother threatened for years and it made me feel she was very selfish and lower then dirt for putting a child through that. The only reason why I still talk with my mother is the bible and what it says about respecting your parents. I have alot of issues with this since I've basically been on my own since I was 12 years old, but I try and am working on it.
My brother in law had his mother commit suicide. He deals with it in a ok manner, but he is mad about it and you can see it still hurts him over 20 years later.
Why I have no sympathy is why would you do that to people you love? The only exception I can think of were I would feel sympathy is a terminal illness and alot of pain, however I really don't see that as suicide either since they are just speeding up the end result.
I'm actually really sorry if I offend anyone, this is just how I feel about it.
Hey thanks for the clarification. Maybe you're mad about your mother's scary threats which she may or may not have intended to carry out, and not at people who really feel that they cannot continue living. /shrug maybe not. I'll stop trying to guess what your thoughts and motivations are lol sorry.
I apologize for getting head shrinky again. The reason i do it is because i know a person who fought off suicidal thoughts for years, and rarely told anyone. When he did, he got reactions ranging from hostility, to changing the subject out of fear, to seeing him as "deranged."
This person who i am referring to struggled for years with these thoughts, and never carried it out because of what it would do to his friends and family. These same people refused to acknowledge his despair or provide any support to him, even as he basically lived through hell in consideration for them.
So my point is, it isn't as cut and dry as someone waking up one morning and deciding it would be easiest to kill themself that day, and screw everyone else. Not in all cases, at least.
In the end, i believe people have a right to kill themself if they want to, and that is why i'd talk to them about it in a non judgemental way and try to help them.0
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