Socialized Medicine
I've been thinking. My wife has been in the hospital last week and I spent a lot of time thinking about stuff. BTW, she's fine. Even came out of the surgery with a brand new belly button.
Anyway, we have VA hospitals. This is the best example of America's nationalized socialized health care. I know it's a political hot button it criticize or nations hospital and medical plan for veterans, but this the best example of a national health care system in this nation. It's also probably the last place I would want to go to if I was sick.
Sorry, I just never heard much good things about VA hospitals.
Would you rather go to a VA Hospital or your local hospital? Maybe that's a poor choice. Nobody likes there local hospital.
So, would you rather go to a VA hospital or the hospital in the next town over?
So I ask myself, why do people want nationalized health care?
Anyway, we have VA hospitals. This is the best example of America's nationalized socialized health care. I know it's a political hot button it criticize or nations hospital and medical plan for veterans, but this the best example of a national health care system in this nation. It's also probably the last place I would want to go to if I was sick.
Sorry, I just never heard much good things about VA hospitals.
Would you rather go to a VA Hospital or your local hospital? Maybe that's a poor choice. Nobody likes there local hospital.
So, would you rather go to a VA hospital or the hospital in the next town over?
So I ask myself, why do people want nationalized health care?
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OH crap. I just told a bunch of veterans "Your hospitals suck." Some might consider this as an attack on all veterans. We might be in for another night of fighting. 0 -
In general, I think, people that want to nationalize health care are those tat think it won't cost them anything.
We good thinkers, of course, know better than that.
Doug0 -
People have the misguided notion that a national health care system would some how make health care more affordable and more widely available. I feel differently and have no interest in any service that the government is going to provide to me which will suddenly replace a service I am currently purchasing myself because I know the the government plan will be of a lower quality. If Uncle Sam was providing automobiles to everyone on a national basis you know full well that no one would be driving a Mercedes! I am the co owner (with two partners) of a decent sized engineering firm employing 40 people and speaking as one of the owners I'd love to see national health care because it would be less of a hassel for the firm. We currently have a cafeteria plan which allows each employee $800 per month which he or she can spend on any of the several health insurenace plans we offer. If I had my way I'd just write my employees a check for $10K every year, hand them the cash and let them find their own insurance or get into line with the rest of the cattle over at the government provided health care centers. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by Captplaid
OH crap. I just told a bunch of veterans "Your hospitals suck." Some might consider this as an attack on all veterans. We might be in for another night of fighting.
Don't worry about it. We already know they suck. My local hospital is OK of colonoscopys and such, but if I have a medical problem, like a heart attack or something, I prefer Duke.0 -
quote:Originally posted by kristov
speaking as one of the owners I'd love to see national health care because it would be less of a hassel for the firm.
You're in for a BIIIIG surprise. [:D]0 -
If you want an example of why not a national health care plan, just take a look north at the health care system in Canada. Bureucrats not doctors decide what you get treated for and when. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by 41 nut
If you want an example of why not a national health care plan, just take a look north at the health care system in Canada. Bureucrats not doctors decide what you get treated for and when.
so? Now HMOs tell your doctor he/she can't do something they want to do... what's the difference? Just cutting out the middleman...0 -
We already have socialized health care. The illegals don't have to pay a dime for it, since we pick up the tab. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by vicg1 Originally posted by 41 nut
so? Now HMOs tell your doctor he/she can't do something they want to do... what's the difference? Just cutting out the middleman...
The main difference is you don't have to join the HMO.0 -
I've made this same analogy numerous times... 0 -
Well, when ever it gets here be ready to be taxed heavily 0 -
quote:Originally posted by ECC
I've made this same analogy numerous times...
If that's the case, I like the way you think.0 -
quote:Originally posted by JamesRK
quote:Originally posted by vicg1Originally posted by 41 nut
so? Now HMOs tell your doctor he/she can't do something they want to do... what's the difference? Just cutting out the middleman...
The main difference is you don't have to join the HMO.
yeah, and in countries such as Canada you don't have to go thru the system either...0 -
There are very few things the government does efficiently.
Health care isn't one of them, as you've discovered.0 -
quote:Originally posted by vicg1
quote:Originally posted by 41 nut
If you want an example of why not a national health care plan, just take a look north at the health care system in Canada. Bureucrats not doctors decide what you get treated for and when.
so? Now HMOs tell your doctor he/she can't do something they want to do... what's the difference? Just cutting out the middleman...
absolutely...as long as the insurance companies are buying up the hospitals with their priority making a profit rather than the health and wefare of the community, i see little difference.
PLUS 1!!!
since the insurense companies bought up the hospitals and stared running them with the priority on profit rather than the health and welfare of the commiunity, i see little difference.0 -
In the US we think everyone should have an education... but only those on welfare get free medical... why?
It's obvious the public school system isn't as good as it could be but everyone gets the opportunity to go to school. If they want to go to a private school they pay and do it. Why should medical be different? Shouldn't we try to both educate the masses and keep them healthy? Wouldn't that build a stronger country?0 -
...Oh let me count the ways Socialized (National) HealthCare would bite.
...The numbers the advocates use almost sound immpressive until you acctually look at them. The MILLIONS of un-insured account for only about 15% of our society, that leaves 85% insured or have access to insurance and CHOOSE not to participate. So, that would leave 85% PAYING for the 15%...which is not a new concept with government innitiated "feel-good" programs; especially those programs (dims love the feel-good, "throw money at the problem" legislation)proposed by the libs.
...The quality and quanity of Dr.'s who would participate will NOT be as good as those DR.'s available to us now. There are umpteen quality Dr.'s that will NOT participate in Medicare now because of the hassle for them, and Medicare has been around HOW long now?? The government has not got THAT program correct in all these years, what makes anyone think a new, bigger program would ever work.
...Medical, Dr.'s cost's are too high now as we all know. When the qaulity Dr.'s are in the minority(those that choose not to participate), their prices will only increase, along with their availability.
...Those individuals (myself included) that choose NOT to participate in a National HealthCare will be paying for those that do, plus paying a HIGHER price when we visit our own private Dr.'s; when we can get in to see them.
...Get ready if Shrill-Ary or another dim wins the WhiteHouse. HER program which went down in flames was HER pet project which turned into one of her most emmbarassing "non-accomplishments" though it was submitted during the height of her husbands popularity and power; HAD to be a reason! One can bet the farm Shrill-Ary will use her power to breath life into her failed HealthCare plan and erase that failure from her resume.
...You only have to look to Canada or Europe to see how National HealthCare does NOT work, no way, no how...[xx(]
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quote:Originally posted by COLT
...Oh let me count the ways Socialized (National) HealthCare would bite.
...The numbers the advocates use almost sound immpressive until you acctually look at them. The MILLIONS of un-insured account for only about 15% of our society, that leaves 85% insured or have access to insurance and CHOOSE not to participate. So, that would leave 85% PAYING for the 15%...which is not a new concept with government innitiated "feel-good" programs; especially those programs (dims love the feel-good, "throw money at the problem" legislation)proposed by the libs.
46 million were uninsured in 2004.... why not 46 million with no public education? What's the difference?
quote:Originally posted by COLT
...Those individuals (myself included) that choose NOT to participate in a National HealthCare will be paying for those that do, plus paying a HIGHER price when we visit our own private Dr.'s; when we can get in to see them.
Why do I pay $3000 a year in school taxes when I don't have a child in public shools? How come I am forced to participate in that program? BECAUSE IT MAKES A STRONGER COUNTRY.0 -
Cap liability limits for malpractice and insurance premiums paid by doctors goes down. How many doctors are forced to not handle certain patients because of lawsuit concerns? This is probably a big part of the rising cost of medical care here in the US. Any agents out there that can give us an idea of premiums these days? Last I heard from a doctor friend about 5 years ago he was up to $100k in premiums annually. 0 -
quote:46 million were uninsured in 2004.... why not 46 million with no public education? What's the difference?
quote:Why do I pay $3000 a year in school taxes when I don't have a child in public shools? How come I am forced to participate in that program? BECAUSE IT MAKES A STRONGER COUNTRY.
vicg1 Try again, neither retort you made has anything to do with Commie-Fied HealthCare, either pro or con...[;)]0 -
quote:Originally posted by COLT
quote:46 million were uninsured in 2004.... why not 46 million with no public education? What's the difference?
quote:Why do I pay $3000 a year in school taxes when I don't have a child in public shools? How come I am forced to participate in that program? BECAUSE IT MAKES A STRONGER COUNTRY.
vicg1 Try again, neither retort you made has anything to do with Commie-Fied HealthCare, either pro or con...[;)]
yes it does... why do we value making our citizens mentally strong as far as an education is concerned but not physically strong? When I went to school we had our PE classes... these days the kids don't get mandatory PE and half of them are obese... just go to any school and look around. We don't value health. Only the illegals and welfare recipients get free healthcare. The average working stiff trying to support his family and pay his bills gets shafted. I make a decent living and have no problem paying for some hard working guys healthcare if he can not afford it just the same as I don't mind supporting welfare for those that truly need it. I don't want to see hungry children or old/incapacitade folks in the country any more than I want to see any of them go without healthcare.0 -
quote:Originally posted by vicg1
In the US we think everyone should have an education... but only those on welfare get free medical... why?
It's obvious the public school system isn't as good as it could be but everyone gets the opportunity to go to school. If they want to go to a private school they pay and do it. Why should medical be different? Shouldn't we try to both educate the masses and keep them healthy? Wouldn't that build a stronger country?
No.
You would nationalized a large portion of the nation's economy. You would also stifle innovation.
We do a crappy job of educating everyone. The public school system is, for the most part, a joke. You have a few bright bulbs that learn and you have a lot of people who can't compose a sentence making it to college, to the point where most colleges need to offer remedial English.
Even in graduate school (I am finishing up right now), schools offer remedial writing lessons for students who have made it this far but can't compose a sentence on their own. On the team assignments that I am assigned, I am amazed as to the low-quality work that supposedly-educated students submit as "final" that I then have to go through and spend hours editing and retooling.
I don't want my medical service delivered in a half-assed manner. I want good medical care. I can do it half-assed myself. And, so can you.0 -
quote:Originally posted by spanielsells
quote:Originally posted by vicg1
In the US we think everyone should have an education... but only those on welfare get free medical... why?
It's obvious the public school system isn't as good as it could be but everyone gets the opportunity to go to school. If they want to go to a private school they pay and do it. Why should medical be different? Shouldn't we try to both educate the masses and keep them healthy? Wouldn't that build a stronger country?
No.
You would nationalized a large portion of the nation's economy. You would also stifle innovation.
We do a crappy job of educating everyone. The public school system is, for the most part, a joke. You have a few bright bulbs that learn and you have a lot of people who can't compose a sentence making it to college, to the point where most colleges need to offer remedial English.
Even in graduate school (I am finishing up right now), schools offer remedial writing lessons for students who have made it this far but can't compose a sentence on their own. On the team assignments that I am assigned, I am amazed as to the low-quality work that supposedly-educated students submit as "final" that I then have to go through and spend hours editing and retooling.
I don't want my medical service delivered in a half-assed manner. I want good medical care. I can do it half-assed myself. And, so can you.
You have a choice in education, public or private. Why would you suddenly have no choice in health care?0 -
quote:Originally posted by vicg1
quote:Originally posted by spanielsells
quote:Originally posted by vicg1
In the US we think everyone should have an education... but only those on welfare get free medical... why?
It's obvious the public school system isn't as good as it could be but everyone gets the opportunity to go to school. If they want to go to a private school they pay and do it. Why should medical be different? Shouldn't we try to both educate the masses and keep them healthy? Wouldn't that build a stronger country?
No.
You would nationalized a large portion of the nation's economy. You would also stifle innovation.
We do a crappy job of educating everyone. The public school system is, for the most part, a joke. You have a few bright bulbs that learn and you have a lot of people who can't compose a sentence making it to college, to the point where most colleges need to offer remedial English.
Even in graduate school (I am finishing up right now), schools offer remedial writing lessons for students who have made it this far but can't compose a sentence on their own. On the team assignments that I am assigned, I am amazed as to the low-quality work that supposedly-educated students submit as "final" that I then have to go through and spend hours editing and retooling.
I don't want my medical service delivered in a half-assed manner. I want good medical care. I can do it half-assed myself. And, so can you.
You have a choice in education, public or private. Why would you suddenly have no choice in health care?
You do have a choice in health care already. Why would I want the government involved further than it already is?0 -
quote:Originally posted by spanielsells
quote:Originally posted by vicg1
quote:Originally posted by spanielsells
quote:Originally posted by vicg1
In the US we think everyone should have an education... but only those on welfare get free medical... why?
It's obvious the public school system isn't as good as it could be but everyone gets the opportunity to go to school. If they want to go to a private school they pay and do it. Why should medical be different? Shouldn't we try to both educate the masses and keep them healthy? Wouldn't that build a stronger country?
No.
You would nationalized a large portion of the nation's economy. You would also stifle innovation.
We do a crappy job of educating everyone. The public school system is, for the most part, a joke. You have a few bright bulbs that learn and you have a lot of people who can't compose a sentence making it to college, to the point where most colleges need to offer remedial English.
Even in graduate school (I am finishing up right now), schools offer remedial writing lessons for students who have made it this far but can't compose a sentence on their own. On the team assignments that I am assigned, I am amazed as to the low-quality work that supposedly-educated students submit as "final" that I then have to go through and spend hours editing and retooling.
I don't want my medical service delivered in a half-assed manner. I want good medical care. I can do it half-assed myself. And, so can you.
You have a choice in education, public or private. Why would you suddenly have no choice in health care?
You do have a choice in health care already. Why would I want the government involved further than it already is?
Why would YOU not have a choice in healthcare if socialized medicine options be available... You would. Some people need the help. I pay $3000 a year for schools even though no one in my family benefits from we. We all benefit from it as a country.0 -
...Try parental responsibility vs leaving the teaching of proper behavoir to a failed public school system vic. The public school system was far better when I went thru it (private school also) than it is today, even then, my parents taught/showed me the proper way to behave both for my physical well being and to become a contributing member of society; they did NOT leave that up to the school system.
...Tort reform would go a LONG way towards correcting/capping the outlandish malpractice ins. costs which are passed on to all us; not the implementation of a giant bureaucracy burdened Commi-Fied HealthCare program shoved up our azz.
...Many want the "system" to be their nanny, I don't want that nor do I need it, those that do, oh well. These type folks need to learn to take personal responsibility for their own lives, and stop "looking" towards others to solve their problems. THAT, is the liberal "think".
...I do not like the "players" that use the system(welfare etc.) , but I do not dwell on it either, it unfortuanately is the way it is, and will be. So, me paying for the guy that does not have healthcare is not the driving factor in why I believe Commie-Fied HealthCare is not a good thing.
...Un-connected talking points does not do it for me. Socialized HealthCare has FAILED in Canada, it has FAILED in Europe. Please refer to a Commie-Fied system of HealthCare that HAS worked...I do not know of one...[;)]
...*Ask Ray (mond) who lives in Great Britain what he thinks about National HealthCare. I have no idea what he think's of it, may be interesting to hear from someone who has experienced this first hand.0 -
quote:Originally posted by Captplaid
I've been thinking. My wife has been in the hospital last week and I spent a lot of time thinking about stuff. BTW, she's fine. Even came out of the surgery with a brand new belly button.
Anyway, we have VA hospitals. This is the best example of America's nationalized socialized health care. I know it's a political hot button it criticize or nations hospital and medical plan for veterans, but this the best example of a national health care system in this nation. It's also probably the last place I would want to go to if I was sick.
Sorry, I just never heard much good things about VA hospitals.
Would you rather go to a VA Hospital or your local hospital? Maybe that's a poor choice. Nobody likes there local hospital.
So, would you rather go to a VA hospital or the hospital in the next town over?
So I ask myself, why do people want nationalized health care?
Some, because it furthers their agenda of cradle to grave socialism/increasing government power.
Some, because they are good at heart and want the less fortunate to be cared for by the collective.
Some, because they are ignorant and think it is free.
Some, because they are irresponsible and don't want the burden of having to care for themselves and their family.
Some, because of apathy, ignorance of what America is supposed to be and stupidity.
Most, because they are simply clueless about the proper function of government in a free society.
This indicates that the social engineers, multiculturalists, one-worlders, socialists/communists, "progressives" and general liberal philosphy, over the last 50-60 years, have won. The enemy within is victorious.0 -
The US spends 16% (probably soon to be 20%) of its GDP on healthcare that is with scores of millions uninsured.
The UK spends about 10%, Germany, France, and Switzerland about 11% with everyone taken care of.
If anyone wants to say a countries health care system is broken it is ours.0 -
...Recent evaluations rank US health care #1 in the world.
...Litigous society (tort reform now) and the liberal think of wanting a "nanny state" and who take no reponsibility for their personal behavoir is where the problems lie, not with the quality of health care; it ranks 2nd to none worlwide....[;)]0 -
quote:Originally posted by COLT
...Recent evaluations rank US health care #1 in the world.
Link?0
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