Ruby Ridge & Waco
The Discovery Times channel (DTMS) last night (Friday 2/10) ran to different special reports on Waco and Ruby Ridge.
I wonder if anyone else watched them ?
Also, I'd like to hear some opinions on those events from my friends at GB. Y'all have enormous knowledge and great analytical powers, and I'd like the benifit of your thoughts.
By the way, I know we have a bunch of young members who only have history books to forge their views, but I'd like to hear from them too.
I was not a kid during those incidents and watched them on live TV.
I wonder if anyone else watched them ?
Also, I'd like to hear some opinions on those events from my friends at GB. Y'all have enormous knowledge and great analytical powers, and I'd like the benifit of your thoughts.
By the way, I know we have a bunch of young members who only have history books to forge their views, but I'd like to hear from them too.
I was not a kid during those incidents and watched them on live TV.
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Whiteclouder - I guess I need to "bunker-ize" the house...Pretty deep, too.
Sperry - mi casa es su casa.
Mebbe I'll smuggle meself illegally into Mexico !!
The authorities MUST be held to a higher moral, ethical, and legal standard.
Would anyone argue against that statement ??
D.
* edited you remove extra letter.0 -
quote:Originally posted by nunn
I am finding a surprising amount of support for the actions of the government agents in these tragic incidents. I don't. It doesn't matter much whether the Davidians and/or the Weavers were good guys or bad guys, or somewhere in the middle. Both operations were carried out WRONGLY, from the beginning, and both operations could have been executed without firing a shot, had the government agents simply thought it out.
As one member succinctly suggested: "Believe what you want."
It;s good to hear a lawman's view on these two incredibly tragic incidents. I think most reasonable folks will agree with you and others who think like this too.0 -
David Koresh went into town a couple times a week. The Sheriff knew him, and could have easily walked up to him and arrested him in town.
ATF had some expensive toys to show off, they wanted to play SWAT team.
They were surprised to find someone who would fight back.0 -
I watched the Waco incident live, and in my opinion it was very botched. All they had to do is wait for David K., like they did for Bonnie and Clyde. 80 innocent, brain washed people, including kids lost their lives. Some of them even being our goverments own BATFE agents who got shot by other agents. This all ome under the Clinton administration, if I remember correctly.
Next was Ruby Ridge. Idaho. Well actually that was a bit before. I do not know how many of our members have ever been to the Machinegun Shoot, at Knob Creek Range in Kentucky, but while there, I had the chance to actually sit down and talk with Randy Weaver in person. The agents had the court date rigged, so Randy who only got his mail about once a week wouldn't know. Yes he was going to go to court on a firearms NFA charge for shortening a shotgun barrel, at the persistant request of an undercover BATF agent, who infiltrated the religous group the Weavers were affiliated with. When he did not make that date, instead of going up to the house, and saying that he was under arrest, for such, they invaded his woods surrounding his home. His son and dog were out plinking/hunting, and they shot the dog, and when the boy ran for home, they shot him in the back. Upon setting up snipers and observation points, a sniper shot his wife from 200 yards away as she stood in the door way holding her infant baby in her arms...he said she posed a threat to his life...imagine that.
After all of the dust settled from this, Clinton's Attourney General, Janet(Pig Face) Reno says that she takes full responsibility for both Ruby Ridge, and Waco. Her fat behind should have been swinging from an oak tree for it. Make no mistake about it...our goverment is not only ruthless, but shameless.0 -
Both these situations would not have ocurred in the America I grew up in.
Is there anything we can do to keep each other safe from the government asassinating us ?
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quote:Originally posted by RunForest
I watched Waco live, I have my opinions on it. Everyone does. Ruby was earlier and I think I was too young to really remember it live, but I have heard reports on it now and I have an opinion. Here it goes....for both cases.....WHEN THE POLICE COME TO YOUR HOUSE TO ARREST YOU OR TALK TO YOU....YOU COMPLY, GET A LAWYER AND HAVE THE AMERICAN JUSTICE SYSTEM WORK IT OUT. flame away......lol
First off in general I agree with you if the cops come up and knock you go. In the Ruby Ridge case the marshals where hiding on the place watching the family and when the son and a friend went walking with the dog the marshals shot the dog and the kid shot at them and turned and ran then he was shot in the back and killed. Now the boy was not wanted for anything the dog was simply being a dog. The kid was reacting to what looked to him as an armed tresspasser shooting his pet. So when did the goverment gain the right to come on your land and kill your pets and shoot you without identifying themselves0 -
do you guys realize the Clinton Admin killed more American "terrorists" than foreign terrorists ? Scary scary thought. Just imagine what Hilary or Obama is going to do. Or better yet, what Guiliani or Mcain would do !! 0 -
quote:Originally posted by allen griggs
David Koresh went into town a couple times a week. The Sheriff knew him, and could have easily walked up to him and arrested him in town.
ATF had some expensive toys to show off, they wanted to play SWAT team.
They were surprised to find someone who would fight back.
If they took him in town they couldnt have shown the budget commitees how they really needed more money0 -
I guess they established that right in their mind when they set him up, not only by coercing him to mod the gun, but jump ahead the court date after months of monitoring his mail box, and knowing that only once a week did he check it. Them meanies closed down an old guy in a small town close to me. He had a shop for years, and two agents went in to purchase a gun., and one guy purchased it, filled out the 4473 form, and signed it. Told him they would be shooting it together so he was going to buy it. The nics was completed, and the transfer made. They took the gun out to the car, put it in the trunk, came back in, and said he just completed a straw purchase, they were taking his license within 24 hours, or they would prosecute. His entire inventory went at auction for a fraction of actual cost. This happened in upstate NY 3 years ago. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by RunForest
I watched Waco live, I have my opinions on it. Everyone does. Ruby was earlier and I think I was too young to really remember it live, but I have heard reports on it now and I have an opinion. Here it goes....for both cases.....WHEN THE POLICE COME TO YOUR HOUSE TO ARREST YOU OR TALK TO YOU....YOU COMPLY, GET A LAWYER AND HAVE THE AMERICAN JUSTICE SYSTEM WORK IT OUT. flame away......lol
The two incidents were only 8 months apart. You must have really grown in eight months to go from being to young to remember to watching live footage of Waco massacre.0 -
ruby ridge wasnt televised where i lived. i didnt even know all the details about it until i was older. waco was telvised live and i was able to at least form some opinion at the time 0 -
quote:Originally posted by tsr1965
After all of the dust settled from this, Clinton's Attourney General, Janet(Pig Face) Reno says that she takes full responsibility for both Ruby Ridge, and Waco. Her fat behind should have been swinging from an oak tree for it. Make no mistake about it...our goverment is not only ruthless, but shameless.
The assault on Ruby Ridge occurred in August of 1992. GHW Bush was still President. For whatever reason, Ruby Ridge has popularly been laid at Clinton's feet, but, and it is important to know this, Government over-reaction and oppression know no party.0 -
You've got it, Don.
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Them meanies closed down an old guy in a small town close to me. He had a shop for years, and two agents went in to purchase a gun., and one guy purchased it, filled out the 4473 form, and signed it. Told him they would be shooting it together so he was going to buy it. The nics was completed, and the transfer made. They took the gun out to the car, put it in the trunk, came back in, and said he just completed a straw purchase, they were taking his license within 24 hours, or they would prosecute. His entire inventory went at auction for a fraction of actual cost. This happened in upstate NY 3 years ago.
That was the point i was trying to bring out here. There are no boundries.0
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