It's official. M16 is out. AK-47 is in.
Hypothetically of course.
If the Department of Defense issued a proclamation today which stated the M16 family was being phased out and replaced with the AK47,or a variant thereof, as soon as American companies were able to retool and supply the neccessary arms and related equipment.
What would be the political and social implications of such a decision?
If the Department of Defense issued a proclamation today which stated the M16 family was being phased out and replaced with the AK47,or a variant thereof, as soon as American companies were able to retool and supply the neccessary arms and related equipment.
What would be the political and social implications of such a decision?
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Sure, I've worked all night and sleepy, but I don't get it. What the point of the question. 0 -
Well the first thing is Eugene Stoner would be rolling over in his grave.[:0]
That would be a major political defeat for the West. To admitt that the Russians kicked our butts in the samll arms dept. Of course it will never happen I think the M-14 would be a fine replacement for the M-16, but I am sure a brand new weopon is coming soon.
If the M-14 had been allowed to develope its full potiential on the battlefield it would be as good or better than the AK (commie gun)!0 -
quote:Originally posted by sig232
Well the first thing is Eugene Stoner would be rolling over in his grave.[:0]
That would be a major political defeat for the West. To admitt that the Russians kicked our butts in the samll arms dept. Of course it will never happen I think the M-14 would be a fine replacement for the M-16, but I am sure a brand new weopon is coming soon.
If the M-14 had been allowed to develope its full potiential on the battlefield it would be as good or better than the AK (commie gun)!
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quote:Originally posted by sig232
Well the first thing is Eugene Stoner would be rolling over in his grave.[:0]
That would be a major political defeat for the West. To admitt that the Russians kicked our butts in the samll arms dept. Of course it will never happen I think the M-14 would be a fine replacement for the M-16, but I am sure a brand new weopon is coming soon.
If the M-14 had been allowed to develope its full potiential on the battlefield it would be as good or better than the AK (commie gun)!
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While the M14 in a fine weapon in its own right, and has its place in our arsenals I can't see stepping backwards by making is an standard issue weapon.0 -
must be a slow day. give it a rest. 0 -
I'll take the M16 over both of them. 0 -
Would make perfect sense. Some of the items our military wears and uses is Chinese...might as well carry Norinco's as well.
With China getting control over our government with Treasury Holdings this isn't a hypothetical but a possibility.0 -
I don't think anyone wants a weapon that requires little if any maintenance.
Being able to strip, clean, and reassemble a needlessly dirty weapon with a gas impingement system is what separates us from, well, the people who don't have to. [;)]0 -
it would cost millions of dollars to:
- manufacture rifles, magazines, spare parts, cleaning kits, manuals, training programs, ammo, etc.
- either demil (read: destroy) the old stuff, or or send to other countries that want it, or get it in a position to sell to the public
- using a different rifle with markedly different tactical strengths & weaknesses (and the fact that your enemy could use your weapons & supplies) would require a major rethinking of offensive & defensive tactics all around
- related armement would be affected as well, such as the M243
political and social implications follow the results of all of the above.
basically, that's it. but that's saying a lot.0 -
Somehow I don't think many small arms "experts" here have carried the AK47 or M14 as a combat infantryman in day to day operations. If they have I would give credence to their opinions, if not[?]. Anyone who has lived with the M16 will tell you the only longarm that is easier to clean and maintain is a single shot shotgun. 0 -
Dak To,
You're being a little tough on pump-action shotguns, ain't ya?[B)][;)]
Actually I read an article about how pump-action shotguns are not the bee's knees in combat and the author compiled a list of drawbacks that was about as long as my leg.0 -
The M-14 is without a doubt, the finest combat rifle ever fielded in the world. Essentially, it's an enhanced M-1, which is the second finest.
I know,I carried one.
Don't even talk to me about sub-caliber weapons like the 16 and the 47.
D.0 -
I think the AK is much better than the M16. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by Doug Wilson
The M-14 is without a doubt, the finest combat rifle ever fielded in the world. Essentially, it's an enhanced M-1, which is the second finest.
I know,I carried one.
Don't even talk to me about sub-caliber weapons like the 16 and the 47.
D.
There ya have it folks.0 -
Doesnt springfield armory make a m14 knockoff? I want one so bad....high price but I agree the M14 puts all others to shame. High rate of fire, range and accuracy all in one package. 0 -
can the M14 reliably hit area targets with full auto fire? no.
it's the best battle rifle, but they don't want a battle rifle. they want an assault rifle.
you know the AK is easier to clean than the M16.
(not arguing in favor of any of them, just talking about those points)0 -
LAR-10
Not the m14,and defiantly not the AK47, Why would we want to make it easier for the enemy to resupply themselves. they may attack supply convoys to keep us from resupplying. but lets not send truck loads of 7.62x39 ammo. out into the dessert so that they can take them and use it against us.
the future i think is LAR-10. I know the SF units are asking for them or all ready using them. they will accept both inch and metric fnfal/L1a1 Mag's, and there are pallets of that stuff laying around.0 -
Full-auto fire from a shoulder fired weapon is not held in high regard by real RIFLEMEN.
D.0 -
quote:Originally posted by Doug Wilson
The M-14 is without a doubt, the finest combat rifle ever fielded in the world. Essentially, it's an enhanced M-1, which is the second finest.
I know,I carried one.
Don't even talk to me about sub-caliber weapons like the 16 and the 47.
D.
Doug, If you had carried a FAL, you would want nothing else.0 -
Could be. They are also fine battle rifles.
D.0 -
quote:Originally posted by Doug Wilson
Full-auto fire from a shoulder fired weapon is not held in high regard by real RIFLEMEN.we're talking about the military. entirely different needs. you need full auto fire capability to engage in military tactics. ever heard of a breakout? that's a basic example. you need to be able to do that.0 -
Full auto has been removed from the M-16's hasn't it? The AF had some old relics that were full auto but converted them to M4 and 3 shot burst. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by buschmaster
you know the AK is easier to clean than the M16.
How can it be any easier than push the pin, break it down, run a brush/patches through it, pull the bolt, clean it, then pop the thing back together? I've fired and cleaned AKs, M1s, and M14s.
If I were a grunt humping a load and wasn't in a jungle/forest enviroment and long ranges were the norm, I would seriously consider a 7.62 M14, FAL, HK, etc., though a U.S. Army Ordinance man posted here that M14s were experiencing enough problems in the sand box that parts were becoming scarce. To each his own, I wouldn't want to be the target of a good rifleman that used any of them.0 -
What they really should do is switch over to the HK 416 uppers. All the advantages of the M-4 without the disadvantages of the direct gas system. 0 -
Watched "Future Weapons" the other night. He was at Barrett's place in TN. Seems that Ronnie Barrett has developed a new assualt rifle that fires a round a little bigger than the M-16. Looked really promising. And heck, if Barrett makes it, you know it will be top notch. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by Dak To 68
quote:Originally posted by buschmaster
you know the AK is easier to clean than the M16.
How can it be any easier than push the pin, break it down, run a brush/patches through it, pull the bolt, clean it, then pop the thing back together? I've fired and cleaned AKs, M1s, and M14s.
If I were a grunt humping a load and wasn't in a jungle/forest enviroment and long ranges were the norm, I would seriously consider a 7.62 M14, FAL, HK, etc., though a U.S. Army Ordinance man posted here that M14s were experiencing enough problems in the sand box that parts were becoming scarce. To each his own, I wouldn't want to be the target of a good rifleman that used any of them.
That may have been me that you are thinking of. I did not mean that the scarcity of parts was due to malfunctions of the M14. It is due to an extreme shortage of parts to begin with. With no demand for parts, the Army stops buying new repair parts and the depots are not restocked when the quantities are low.0 -
The difference is if you want to kill Godless commies at 600 yards or at 100 yards... AR-15 = maximum effective range 800 yards... 0 -
quote:Originally posted by mrseatle
The difference is if you want to kill Godless commies at 600 yards or at 100 yards... AR-15 = maximum effective range 800 yards...
Care to let a good man with an M16 shoot at you at say 1,000 yards?0 -
Maybe the cartridge from a Ransome type rest can hit a man-target from 800 yards, but I question whether that can be done by an average grunt. I think most would be hard pressed at 400.
On the other hand, I have witnessed the M-14, being used by normally trained Army riflemen, put humans down at 700 yards, under combat conditions.
The 5.56 is a good varmint cartridge. The 7.62 X 39 is a good deer cartridge.
D.0 -
quote:Originally posted by Dak To 68
quote:Originally posted by mrseatle
The difference is if you want to kill Godless commies at 600 yards or at 100 yards... AR-15 = maximum effective range 800 yards...
Care to let a good man with an M16 shoot at you at say 1,000 yards?
Nope, I prefer our enemies strapped with the AK...
The effective range of the AK47 is between 150 m to 250 m
(Norris, John. Rifles & Combat Shotguns: Assault & Sniper Rifles.Herndon: Brassey's, 1997)0
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