Sicko: Michael Moore makes a good move.
I just watched this, and of course it is filled with the unfair emotional persuasion, but it is an eye-opener. It is a jaded snap shot at what our lives could be like - what it should be like. It is a plead for nationalized health care and it has helped to solidify my decision on the matter. I urge you to investigate the issue because it certainly seems important and necessary. Reminds me of his excellent film 'Roger and Me' it is nice to see him fight for the right thing.
0
-
Trust me, you don't want nationalized health care.
Read about the NHS in the UK... they're starting to implement 'health rationing' (basically denying you service) because they are so strapped for cash.0 -
why on earth would you want health care from the same people that gave us the VA? 0 -
as mond if he likes it? 0 -
I know the government will screw up the health care system if they handle it. But the real question is this: Would you rather have a crappy one, or NONE?
Most of the people who have NONE would gladly have SOMETHING.
I pay over $700 for my wife and I, per month for our health insurance. Self-employed people have VERY few options for health insurance. [:(!]
Wish I had an alternative.
I don't know what the answers are to health care, but things are NOT working as they are. The system is VERY broken.
Merc0 -
I think Michael Moore's heart is in the right place, but as for his head - I'm not too certain.
Nationalized health care would be an unmitigated DISASTER. With illegal immigration being what it is, the system would plan for 300 million and get swamped by 320.
It will also lead to a further widening of the haves and have nots. Those with private insurance (which will become more expensive if healthcare gets nationalized) will be given preferential treatment while those without will be lucky if an intern gives them an aspirin for their brain hemmorhage sometime within 24 hours of checking into the hospital.
As is, the disparity in healthcare is too great between the rich and everyone else. I just don't see nationalization as a solution.0 -
Michael Moore should be deported to Cuba since he likes it there so much. 0 -
Please tell me why national health care is important and necessary?
Please tell me how it will be financed?
Would illegal aliens be exempt?
Who would be exempt?
Who REALLY has the most to gain from a nationalized health care system?
Would it encourage growth in research and technology in the medical industry?
Sabb- You have many times mentioned you wanted to be a military intelligence guy, that you have a degree, and maybe one of these days you would really like to have a few stars on that military uniform.
Let me tell you what matters in economics, in science, and in leadership.
Objective data. The reason you think this is such a great movie is because it is designed to appeal to a hardworking guy such as yourself. Michael Moore is a master at statistical persuasion to influence like you, to relate to his agenda without asking you to acknowledge that it is in fact a carefully engineered radically socialist, anti-American propaganda.
He knows that there are a certain percent of mostly conservatives Americans that will never agree with his viewpoints. He's smart enough not to try and sell this to them, because he can't, because he doesn't have any objective data to make the sale. Why would he put up a fight for a small percentage knowing he doesn't have the facts, when it is much easier to skew the data, wrap it into a heart tugging package, and sell it to the "average" American, who is much less educated (I don't mean formally or otherwise educated, I mean uniformed) or studied in the areas that poor Michael Moore is trying to show you.
When you start off with bad data it is almost always impossible to reach a logical conclusion.
I hope you respond with some legitimate, objective data on the benefits of a nationalized health care system and why it is the right thing to do for a capitalist American economy.0 -
Nationalized Health Care has never worked before, what makes you think it will work now?
Other than a sensationalized movie with no facts, what concepts do you bring to the table to make it work, where it has never worked before?0 -
quote:Originally posted by Kodiakk
Michael Moore should be deported to Cuba since he likes it there so much.
Michael Moore should be dipped in poop and shot for stinking. [:(!] [V]0 -
what exactly is the right thing he's fighting for and you're advocating? national health care? can you spell socialism or do you even know what that is and what that means? 0 -
The U.S.A. has the best health care now, granted it's not free, unless your sucking on the taxpayers teat, but I have yet to go to a hospital and be refused service based on my ability to pay.
Don0 -
Another factor in NHC that I did not see brought up!
If there is a NHC system, in about 20 years (give or take) there will be a major shortage of Doctors and Nurses! This would be due to the fact that the money would be gone in it and that basicly the government would regulate the wages!
Pay scale for these jobs would go down hill from day 1!
And why would a person spend 10 years of college (or whatever it takes to become a doctor) to be limited at $100000 a year income?0 -
I couldn't be impressed by anything MM produced, even if I saw him coming down a mountain carrying stone tablets. [xx(] 0 -
Can you say 60% tax rate for the average American? 0 -
quote:Originally posted by JamesRK
quote:Originally posted by Kodiakk
Michael Moore should be deported to Cuba since he likes it there so much.
Michael Moore should be dipped in poop and shot for stinking. [:(!] [V]
Spot on James.0 -
Part of the reason for today's health care problems is the government already sticking their hand into it. If hospitals weren't required to give aid to you no matter if you can pay or not, we wouldn't be paying so much to keep them running. Our insurance companies have to pay them just enough to keep them running so they have a reason to collect money from us.
I think reasonable emergency care should be kept mandantory, but their are thousands of people that use the emergency room as a primary care doctor. I know of several small business owners that do not have health insurance. They are taking the chance that they don't get catastrophicly sick before making their first million. If they and everyone else were required to pay for their emergency room care, it would make it easier on everyone and think of the money the insurance companies rack in.
David from jax0 -
Trust me you dont want it.I played rugby in the UK for 39 years and had my fair share of breaks and stiches.Three sons born there so no the nationalised health system pretty well.My daughter in law had to wait for 6 months for an operation on her gall bladder.Have friends who live down the road from me,they are from Canada,they tell me while the treatment is good they have huge waiting lists.My daughter was born here,my wife has had a fare amount of hospital treatment here,all of it very good.In the UK now it is totally over run mainly with immigrants,a lot of them illegal. 0 -
I lived in Austria for a year.
I paid 19 euros a month to the Gebietskrankenkasse.
My health care was complete and excellent.
I for one would rather see it run by each STATE not by the Feds. But I wouldn't be opposed to it.0 -
Michael Moore uses inuendo,false statements,leading questions, out of context qoutes and artfully edited video to tell a story, not the truth. 0 -
A friend had back surgery in Canada. Doctor messed him all up. Took several years, more operations and a WHOLE bunch of pain before he started to feel better
Like in most things-You get what you pay for!0 -
quote: A friend had back surgery in Canada. Doctor messed him all up. Took several years, more operations and a WHOLE bunch of pain before he started to feel better
Like in most things-You get what you pay for!
Now tell me how that is any different than any dr in the states or anywhere for that matter?....There are quacks all over, in all countries...Get what you pay for???????...oh come on, in health care it doesnt quite follow the rule....you can pay top notch drs and be botched for life....0 -
Legalize marijuanna. Tax the crap out of it.
National healthcare complete.
There is no way the Federal Govt. could operate National Healthcare.
Tricare and the VA are ALREADY WORTHLESS!!!!!
I went in for surgery in Rapid City, SD while Active Duty and the nurse had me prepped for surgery 45 minutes early....IV in the arm and everything. The doctor came out..looked at the chart...and said the Tricare authorization was insufficient as he wanted to do more on me...he ordered the nurse to yank the IV out of me and send me out the door.
I watched doctors/clinics send repeated bills using many different codes to get money for things they didn't do....that's how they get by govt. controlled allowable spending limits.
I never did get my surgery from Tricare...and the VA hasn't been any help either.
ABOLISH FEDERAL HEALTHCARE. I wish Tricare and the VA would get shut down.
Michael Moore is a moron.0 -
1. We have the best health care system in the world.
2. Tricare Prime has been absolutely great for me, including seven major surgeries in the last 15 years.
3. Socialized medicine is a disaster everywhere it has been tried>
4. Michael Moore is a stupid oaf!!0 -
BlackRoses-The difference is that he had to "wait his turn" for a couple years before they would even look at him again. In the meantime, extreme pain. Here in the USA, he could have gone back in almost immediately to get it straightened out.
I don't know all the details of that system, but he had no choice on the doctor and was made to wait for the services. No thanks! If someone is going to work on my back, I want to know that he knows what he is doing.0 -
If we could cut government paperwork, healthcare would be much cheaper. 0 -
Gunfunco...
The choice is available in Canada..And you can check the dr out completely ahead of time as well...there was a toll free number that would tell you if the dr had any cases against him/her or complaints...
I have no idea what province you are talking about but I worked in Ontario hospitals, and am very familiar with the system...
Also if the dr "messed him all up" then why didnt he sue instead of going back to the same one?
Rather strange that when Americans came to Canada for treatment they all said "Wish we had this health care system in the states" and when Canadians come here, they say "wish we had this health care system in Canada"...Ask the ones who cant pay what they system they would like, and then ask the ones who do pay....one wants universal the other says no...0 -
quote:Originally posted by wundudnee
I couldn't be impressed by anything MM produced, even if I saw him coming down a mountain carrying stone tablets. [xx(]
yeah, same here... I checked out his side of the story when I watched F-911, and that pretty much blew his credibility with me.0 -
Its a major problem in this country, too many people are not covered by healthcare insurance.
I do think that the government could play a role and require companies to supply health insurance, in addition they could require all workers to pay into accounts similar to what happens with medicare, then if and when they are unemployed, between jobs, disabled, etc the funds would be available in a "pool" to cover emergancy needs for all people.
But the health care would still be provided by the private sector. The health care "pool" would pay prescribed amounts for service as it currently does for medicare benefits.
I do think that health care should be available for all people. Paid for by required payroll deductions and required company matching payments. The 15% who are not employable would be covered by the payments into the reserve pools. Deductable amounts would be charged to help finance the program based on the annual cost of the system. Readjusted similar to the 3 year price review that workers comp insurance has in place.
This system would keep the government in a reglatory role only and not in the health care business.0 -
The closest thing to "socialized medicine" I've ever been involved with is the VA and the U. S. Navy. About twenty years ago a Navy doctor found a lump in one of my wife's breasts. He said she had to have a biopsy, so Boone Clinic set her up an appointment for about six months down the road. She called me at work and told me about it. I called Boone Clinic and the people I talked with agreed with me that it was insane to wait six months to do the biopsy, but that was the best they could do. I called the Portsmouth Naval Hospital, and they too agreed it was insane to wait six months, but that was the best they could do.
Her survival aside, I knew there was no way in hell I could stand that kind of pressure for six months, so when I could stop crying I got on the horn to that hospital on Independence Boulevard in Virginia Beach, I don't remember the name of it. They agreed that waiting six months was insane. They were surprised that Boone Clinic or Portsmouth Hospital didn't call them and set up the appointment. They said they couldn't do it today or tomorrow, so they set it up for the next day.
The way I understood the Hillary Plan, both you and the doctor could go to jail for going outside the system.
It turned out my wife didn't have cancer, but that biopsy was the best money I've ever spent.0 -
"I'd like to spit some Beechnut in that dude's eye....." 0
Please sign in to leave a comment.
Comments
45 comments