Suspect may be charged in chopper crash
Well, I guess the Phoenix Police have been reading our argument here on GB and decided the law does apply.
Phoenix Police Say Car Theft Suspect May Face Charges for News Chopper Crash That Killed Four
Saturday , July 28, 2007
PHOENIX -
Federal investigators on Saturday began gathering debris from two news helicopters that collided while covering a police chase on live television and crashed, killing all four people aboard.
The investigators plan to lay out the wreckage elsewhere to try to determine the point where the two aircraft collided Friday, National Transportation Safety Board investigator Howard Plagens said.
"We're just mapping out the locations ... how things are scattered, that's our main focus," he said.
Investigators said they'll need at least another day to finish going through the debris, which was sprayed across the ground and landed atop nearby buildings.
On Saturday, investigators allowed reporters into the crash site.
The helicopters' hulls were flipped over and squashed in two twisted heaps. The explosion blackened grass and trees. Curved metal sheets from the choppers floated upside down in a nearby pond.
The pond was laced with fuel from the helicopters, and the air was scented with burnt metal and aviation gas, NTSB board member Steve R. Chealander said.
Helicopter parts were scattered all around: a foam seat; a disembodied tail rotor; small hunks of metal colored red, orange, yellow. Some parts sprouted frayed wires as if ripped from the engine.
Investigators plan to check whether the pilots followed Federal Aviation Administration regulations.
The helicopters from TV stations KTVK and KNXV collided as both circled over the chase. Video from other stations showed white smoke trailing the choppers as they dropped into a grassy downtown park and exploded.
Killed on board the KTVK helicopter were pilotScott Bowerbank and photographer Jim Cox. On board the KNXV aircraft were reporter-pilot Craig Smith and photographer Rick Krolak. No one on the ground was injured.
Chealander said his crew will spend the next several days interviewing witnesses and reviewing maintenance records for the helicopters.
The NTSB will use a police hot line number to try to get witnesses to call in, Chealander said. Numerous people saw the helicopters drop to the ground.
Meanwhile, the man suspected of starting the chase was booked into jail on three counts of aggravated assault with a deadly weapon, two counts of theft and one count of resisting arrest.
Christopher Jermaine Jones, 23, also may be held responsible for the helicopter crash, police said.
Formal charges are expected to come later. At an initial court appearance, bail was set at $1 million.
According to court documents, Jones told officers that he didn't remember stealing two trucks, ramming a police cruiser and leading officers on a chase through Phoenix. He said he woke up as officers were trying to arrest him at his friend's house.
Phoenix Police Say Car Theft Suspect May Face Charges for News Chopper Crash That Killed Four
Saturday , July 28, 2007
PHOENIX -
Federal investigators on Saturday began gathering debris from two news helicopters that collided while covering a police chase on live television and crashed, killing all four people aboard.
The investigators plan to lay out the wreckage elsewhere to try to determine the point where the two aircraft collided Friday, National Transportation Safety Board investigator Howard Plagens said.
"We're just mapping out the locations ... how things are scattered, that's our main focus," he said.
Investigators said they'll need at least another day to finish going through the debris, which was sprayed across the ground and landed atop nearby buildings.
On Saturday, investigators allowed reporters into the crash site.
The helicopters' hulls were flipped over and squashed in two twisted heaps. The explosion blackened grass and trees. Curved metal sheets from the choppers floated upside down in a nearby pond.
The pond was laced with fuel from the helicopters, and the air was scented with burnt metal and aviation gas, NTSB board member Steve R. Chealander said.
Helicopter parts were scattered all around: a foam seat; a disembodied tail rotor; small hunks of metal colored red, orange, yellow. Some parts sprouted frayed wires as if ripped from the engine.
Investigators plan to check whether the pilots followed Federal Aviation Administration regulations.
The helicopters from TV stations KTVK and KNXV collided as both circled over the chase. Video from other stations showed white smoke trailing the choppers as they dropped into a grassy downtown park and exploded.
Killed on board the KTVK helicopter were pilotScott Bowerbank and photographer Jim Cox. On board the KNXV aircraft were reporter-pilot Craig Smith and photographer Rick Krolak. No one on the ground was injured.
Chealander said his crew will spend the next several days interviewing witnesses and reviewing maintenance records for the helicopters.
The NTSB will use a police hot line number to try to get witnesses to call in, Chealander said. Numerous people saw the helicopters drop to the ground.
Meanwhile, the man suspected of starting the chase was booked into jail on three counts of aggravated assault with a deadly weapon, two counts of theft and one count of resisting arrest.
Christopher Jermaine Jones, 23, also may be held responsible for the helicopter crash, police said.
Formal charges are expected to come later. At an initial court appearance, bail was set at $1 million.
According to court documents, Jones told officers that he didn't remember stealing two trucks, ramming a police cruiser and leading officers on a chase through Phoenix. He said he woke up as officers were trying to arrest him at his friend's house.
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quote:Christopher Jermaine Jones, 23, also may be held responsible for the helicopter crash, police said.
God love our LEO's but they sometimes say things off the cuff. I doubt that a prosecutor would try to charge the man.
quote:Originally posted by ElMuertoMonkey
If people can be charged with providing an "attractive nuisance" with items like trampolines and swimming pools, then I say the guy who started this chase can be held liable for the results of his actions, however unintended they might have been.
Charging someone with a crime and finding them liable in civil court are two entirely different things.0 -
quote:Originally posted by Hunter Mag
quote:Originally posted by Nwcid
quote:Originally posted by zipperzap
This is really interesting.
Question: Three guys break into your house.
Two of the guys tie up your wife and daughters
and rape/beat all three. Two die (your choice) -
what do you charge the guy who didn't participate -
let's say he was busy beating you and killing your dog!
... it'd be interesting to see if your answers would
be the same.
All 3 of those guys had direct or indirect actions that caused those things to happen. I believe that criminals should be punished 100% for 100% of the results of their actions. Like I stated in my earlier post had this been a chopper that HAD to be there like a police chopper I would agree 100% that this should be on the criminal.
In this case nothing the criminals did either directly or indirectly caused this accident. Yes the criminals were running but other then that fact, the new crews made the CHOICE to go there. The news crews were not in van up the street when the chase started and had someone run into them due to the chase. In that kind of case put it on the criminal by directly or indirectly causing the accident.
I agree but even if they were police copters that crashed it would still have to be a crash that was because of an action by the crimminal. Shooting at them ect. not an accident because of police error ect.
Now I can see your point on the police chopper but I am going to have to disagree and it would depend on the reason for the accident. In the case of a police chopper it would be an indirect action of the criminal. If the chopper had an accident while engaged with the chase of the criminal I would say part of the blame lays on the criminal. The reason I say this is that the police chopper "HAD" to be there due to the actions of the criminal. Now say the chopper crashed trying to land after (not engaged) the chase that would not be a fault of the criminal.
My main point on "blame" goes to the fact of if there was a choice to be in that situation or not during indirect action. If you HAVE to be there due to the actions of another part of the blame lays on them. If you CHOOSE to put yourself in a bad position and something indirect happens that should not lay that on someone else.0 -
If the same gaggle of helicopters were filming a celebrity wedding and this incident occured should the entire wedding party be held accountable?
This whole thing is ludicrous. The pilots were responsible for what happened and no one else.0 -
No - because the choppers were not there because of a criminal committing
a crime. Why is this such a hard concept to understand?
A guy robs a store - cops chase guy - cop car slams into you wife at an
intersection - wife bites the big one - the guy is arrested for armed robbery
and doing 50 in a 25 MPH zone.
... that sounds better to you?
Just one of those things ... too bad wifey ... the guy'll be out in 5-7 years and
your family 'will be out' for ... how long?
What am I missing here? Maybe arrest the cop for performing his duty> Sue the
car company for not making wrap around air bags that year?
[8D]0 -
Nope - it's actually:
http://www.hmichaelsteinberg.com/accessoryliability.htm0 -
The cop in your scenario is an active participant in the situation. The news people were nonparticipating civilian observers. Being there was not part of any 'duty', just their livelihood.
That two choppers would eventually collide was inevitable. Every time a situation like this arises they become a threat to the public. I don't know the proximity laws as applied to helicopters but in the fixed wing world they would constantly be in a 'near miss' situation.0 -
quote:Originally posted by zipperzap
No - because the choppers were not there because of a criminal committing
a crime. Why is this such a hard concept to understand?
A guy robs a store - cops chase guy - cop car slams into you wife at an
intersection - wife bites the big one - the guy is arrested for armed robbery
and doing 50 in a 25 MPH zone.
... that sounds better to you?
Just one of those things ... too bad wifey ... the guy'll be out in 5-7 years and
your family 'will be out' for ... how long?
What am I missing here? Maybe arrest the cop for performing his duty> Sue the
car company for not making wrap around air bags that year?
[8D]
For me the part you are missing that makes it not the criminals fault (in my mind) this time is that the news crew made a CHOICE to be there. The "wife" was doing her daily stuff and was brought into this situation by no CHOICE of her own. In this example the criminal had direct action causing the accident.
Say the news crew had crashed after the chase was over and they were headed home. Would/should the criminal still be liable? They had been in the air to get his story so why not?0 -
FWIW...As I understand the scenario, ch 3 was below ch 15, and the pilot for 15 is heard asking his photographer "where's 3". Ch 3 chopper is stationary in a hover, 15 is moving. A few seconds after he tells 3 he is over them, 15 says "oh geez", and all hell breaks loose.
Obviously both their cameras are pointed down, following the suspect, but there's film footage of the impact..sort of. The signal goes to crap, and they cut back to the studio, the anchors obviously don't have a clue what happened yet.
A photographer on the ground caught a still pic right after the impact. It's probably the most heavily used shot of the entire incident. Ch3 is on the left, 15 in a nose dive on the right.
As sad as the whole thing is, I still think it's a case of pilot error, and as much as the general public here would love to hang this jerk, I still don't think he'll be charged for the 4 news people.0 -
quote:Nwcid:
For me the part you are missing that makes it not the criminals fault (in my mind) this time is that the news crew made a CHOICE to be there. The "wife" was doing her daily stuff and was brought into this situation by no CHOICE of her own. In this example the criminal had direct action causing the accident.
Say the news crew had crashed after the chase was over and they were headed home. Would/should the criminal still be liable? They had been in the air to get his story so why not?
Well, the law is clear - I'm wondering what's in question here.
The chopper IS doing it's thing - as you put it. ... so the dead wife is different? OK, if you think so - she's "doing her thing," too.
We've had a lot of experience with this law in California - the last that comes to mind are the four or five CFD fire fighters who were burned alive become arsonist was 'doing HIS thing' and they somehow chose to become involved in firefighting.
He was charged with four or five counts of homicide - can't recall anyone getting their shorts in a bunch about that. Maybe it's just different in your state.
[:D]0 -
Trust me, my shorts are just fine [:)] and I totally understand your view. To clarify this a bit, he very well may be charged for the 4 deaths, but I don't think there will be a conviction. 0 -
I think this is BS.
Mind you I have little mercy for criminals, but in this case it is total BS.
Those media sisters were just there for the story. They were not innocent bystanders carrying on about their business when the crime occured. They were not police and first responders, whose duty is to go into harms way. They were just news teams willingly partaking in a risky action to get better ratings than their competitors.0 -
the worst part about this is that it happened in my state...but as for stacking charges thats crap the guy can just plea out an get a lighter sentence...the judical system an crimanal system are so flawed an filled with loop holes that im surprised anyone but the retarded gets locked up... 0 -
Clean cut and dry. The network IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THERE OWN ACTIONS They were NOT REQUIRED to be there.[;)] 0 -
Oh my!
[:0]0 -
Givette here: this is my original take on the incident.
Posted - 07/28/2007 : 02:36:53 AM
Big rant follows: right or wrong, here goes. This is about the NEWS, not the poor people that died.
Suppose those news choppers had that fatal collision as they were lifting off of [Phoenix] airport, en route to film the chase scene...then it would have been regarded as just another tragic aviation accident. No more, no less.
Police choppers are for the public safety. They have to be on the scene of crime. The pilot/crew are sworn officers. The news doesn't have to be there. They [KXXXTV] chose to be there.
There's a big difference here, folks.
"We must get it onto the 6:00 spot. We have no choice. we HAVE TO follow that speeding truck"......yeah, right.
Granted, news coverage of a violent scene is very hazardous. The newspeople want to "get in close". Why? So you and I can stare at the telly and say "WOW" over our evening meal. Everything for the "scoop"!! Well, the news channel got their "WOW", today, didn't they.
Four new souls for you, St. Peter. Go easy on them. It wasn't their fault. You see...it was just before the 6:pm airing and.....
......End of rant. Joe0
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