Suspect may be charged in chopper crash
Well, I guess the Phoenix Police have been reading our argument here on GB and decided the law does apply.
Phoenix Police Say Car Theft Suspect May Face Charges for News Chopper Crash That Killed Four
Saturday , July 28, 2007
PHOENIX -
Federal investigators on Saturday began gathering debris from two news helicopters that collided while covering a police chase on live television and crashed, killing all four people aboard.
The investigators plan to lay out the wreckage elsewhere to try to determine the point where the two aircraft collided Friday, National Transportation Safety Board investigator Howard Plagens said.
"We're just mapping out the locations ... how things are scattered, that's our main focus," he said.
Investigators said they'll need at least another day to finish going through the debris, which was sprayed across the ground and landed atop nearby buildings.
On Saturday, investigators allowed reporters into the crash site.
The helicopters' hulls were flipped over and squashed in two twisted heaps. The explosion blackened grass and trees. Curved metal sheets from the choppers floated upside down in a nearby pond.
The pond was laced with fuel from the helicopters, and the air was scented with burnt metal and aviation gas, NTSB board member Steve R. Chealander said.
Helicopter parts were scattered all around: a foam seat; a disembodied tail rotor; small hunks of metal colored red, orange, yellow. Some parts sprouted frayed wires as if ripped from the engine.
Investigators plan to check whether the pilots followed Federal Aviation Administration regulations.
The helicopters from TV stations KTVK and KNXV collided as both circled over the chase. Video from other stations showed white smoke trailing the choppers as they dropped into a grassy downtown park and exploded.
Killed on board the KTVK helicopter were pilotScott Bowerbank and photographer Jim Cox. On board the KNXV aircraft were reporter-pilot Craig Smith and photographer Rick Krolak. No one on the ground was injured.
Chealander said his crew will spend the next several days interviewing witnesses and reviewing maintenance records for the helicopters.
The NTSB will use a police hot line number to try to get witnesses to call in, Chealander said. Numerous people saw the helicopters drop to the ground.
Meanwhile, the man suspected of starting the chase was booked into jail on three counts of aggravated assault with a deadly weapon, two counts of theft and one count of resisting arrest.
Christopher Jermaine Jones, 23, also may be held responsible for the helicopter crash, police said.
Formal charges are expected to come later. At an initial court appearance, bail was set at $1 million.
According to court documents, Jones told officers that he didn't remember stealing two trucks, ramming a police cruiser and leading officers on a chase through Phoenix. He said he woke up as officers were trying to arrest him at his friend's house.
Phoenix Police Say Car Theft Suspect May Face Charges for News Chopper Crash That Killed Four
Saturday , July 28, 2007
PHOENIX -
Federal investigators on Saturday began gathering debris from two news helicopters that collided while covering a police chase on live television and crashed, killing all four people aboard.
The investigators plan to lay out the wreckage elsewhere to try to determine the point where the two aircraft collided Friday, National Transportation Safety Board investigator Howard Plagens said.
"We're just mapping out the locations ... how things are scattered, that's our main focus," he said.
Investigators said they'll need at least another day to finish going through the debris, which was sprayed across the ground and landed atop nearby buildings.
On Saturday, investigators allowed reporters into the crash site.
The helicopters' hulls were flipped over and squashed in two twisted heaps. The explosion blackened grass and trees. Curved metal sheets from the choppers floated upside down in a nearby pond.
The pond was laced with fuel from the helicopters, and the air was scented with burnt metal and aviation gas, NTSB board member Steve R. Chealander said.
Helicopter parts were scattered all around: a foam seat; a disembodied tail rotor; small hunks of metal colored red, orange, yellow. Some parts sprouted frayed wires as if ripped from the engine.
Investigators plan to check whether the pilots followed Federal Aviation Administration regulations.
The helicopters from TV stations KTVK and KNXV collided as both circled over the chase. Video from other stations showed white smoke trailing the choppers as they dropped into a grassy downtown park and exploded.
Killed on board the KTVK helicopter were pilotScott Bowerbank and photographer Jim Cox. On board the KNXV aircraft were reporter-pilot Craig Smith and photographer Rick Krolak. No one on the ground was injured.
Chealander said his crew will spend the next several days interviewing witnesses and reviewing maintenance records for the helicopters.
The NTSB will use a police hot line number to try to get witnesses to call in, Chealander said. Numerous people saw the helicopters drop to the ground.
Meanwhile, the man suspected of starting the chase was booked into jail on three counts of aggravated assault with a deadly weapon, two counts of theft and one count of resisting arrest.
Christopher Jermaine Jones, 23, also may be held responsible for the helicopter crash, police said.
Formal charges are expected to come later. At an initial court appearance, bail was set at $1 million.
According to court documents, Jones told officers that he didn't remember stealing two trucks, ramming a police cruiser and leading officers on a chase through Phoenix. He said he woke up as officers were trying to arrest him at his friend's house.
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Hang'em high.
[V]0 -
absolute BS! Charge him with his crimes, but let the leeches in the helicopters sort their own mess out. 0 -
If people can be charged with providing an "attractive nuisance" with items like trampolines and swimming pools, then I say the guy who started this chase can be held liable for the results of his actions, however unintended they might have been. 0 -
If he indirectly caused a MV accident he would be charged, so why not? The choppers would not have been there had he not been fleeing arrest.
Stack enough charges on him so he won't see the light of day until he is a old man.
Don0 -
In the words of Larry the Cable Guy - I should sue Penthouse for giving me carpal tunnel syndrome.
I should sue the chick with big boobs I noticed on the sidewalk for causing me to get into an accident. And it was not her rear end I nailed. What would the difference be?0 -
LOL....yeah charge him with responsibility for the chopper crash.
Then charge Uncle Sam for 9-11.
Well see how far that goes.0 -
so when you crash your car into a tree, and the newspaper guy wants a picture and wrecks on the way to the scene, its all your fault right? 0 -
So if a guy gets a ticket for speeding and the LEO is to lazy to pull over in the ditch, or maybe he doesn't want to climb up and out of the car in a steep ditch, so he parks half on the road, like a real dumb a$$. Now suppose a semi comes along and smashes the guy like a deer.
Does the speeder get sent to jail for the death of the LEO that was too lazy to get his happy a$$ off the road?
Maybe the helicopter pilot "A" was an idiot and collided into helicopter "B".
Maybe the television station managers are to blame for pushing the pilots too get a closer shot. Does the public really need to watch a freaking car chase?0 -
quote:Originally posted by RustyBones
so when you crash your car into a tree, and the newspaper guy wants a picture and wrecks on the way to the scene, its all your fault right?
And what if the lawyer gets in an accident while chasing the ambulance.0 -
I am all for charging this guy for any foreseeable harm that resulted from his crimnial activity but there is no way it is his fault that these two choppers went down. If anyone should be held repsonsible it should be the television stations who were racing each other to be the first get a clip for the next installment of America's Funniest Human Misery. Something like this has been a long time coming. Letting news choppers fly next to crime scenes and car chases, is not only dangerous to them but to emergency air assets like police choppers, Medevac and rescue choppers. I doubt that it will, but I would hope that this incident would make these stations start to rethink their coverage policies. 0 -
To charge the driver of the car would be a mis-carriage of justice! 0 -
As much as I would love to see this schmuck fry for all of it, I personally don't think it will happen. It was a very tragic day here in Phoenix, and it didn't stop with the choppers going down. I think it was kind of a knee-jerk reaction due to the circumstances of the crash. I really don't see this guy getting charged for all of it. For all the details and pics, here ya go;
http://www.myfoxphoenix.com/myfox/pages/Home/Detail?contentId=3910001&version=3&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=VSTY&pageId=1.1.1
I said it didn't stop there, it gets worse. Later that same night, we lost a Phoenix PD officer, responding to a check forgery call at one of those fly-by-night check cashing joints. He walked in the door, ID'd the suspects, and was in the process of arresting the kid, when he pulls out a gun, and shoots the cop twice. Two have been arrested in this..male and female.
http://www.myfoxphoenix.com/myfox/pages/Home/Detail?contentId=3910061&version=2&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=VSTY&pageId=1.1.1
To top all this off, the shooting took place in the same exact neighborhood as where the cops finaly got the first scumbag! Great area, huh?0 -
Actually, this legal tenant has been a part of the legal system for
a long time. Rob a bank - and you are just the driver sitting outside
in the get away car - one bank guard accidentally shoots/kills another,
or an innocent bystander - guess who is charged with Murder One?
... been that way for a long time.
[:D]0 -
quote:Originally posted by RustyBones
so when you crash your car into a tree, and the newspaper guy wants a picture and wrecks on the way to the scene, its all your fault right?
No.0 -
quote:Originally posted by ElMuertoMonkey
quote:Originally posted by RustyBones
so when you crash your car into a tree, and the newspaper guy wants a picture and wrecks on the way to the scene, its all your fault right?
No.
What if a car full of drunk teenagers fly off the road and smack a tree. A week later a bunch of emotional idiots decide to have a roadside vigil at the curve at night. An unwitting driver comes around the corner and over the hill and smacks a person at the roadside memorial. Should the drunk be held responsible for the deaths of those stupid enough to have a memorial on the road at night.
People are stupid.0 -
In this case the news crews made a choice to be there and the criminals by no direct action (or action of any kind) caused this accident. If the news crews had been taping a parade and found an interesting float and crashed into each other would the owner of the float be charged with murder? If someone on the balcony of a 5 story building leaned over the rail to see this chase and fell would the driver be charged with murder? I am all for fully punishing criminals for there actions, but this is not something that should be on them. If it was a Police Chopper that crashed I would agree 100% since they would HAVE to be there because of the actions of the criminals. 0 -
This makes about as much sense to me as one sueing a bar for not cutting you off before you leave in your car drunk and kill someone.
Just another example of how ludicrous our governemt/justice system has become.
If a LEO is pulling me over for speeding 10mph over and hits a parked car and gets killed. Should I be charged with involentary man slaughter/murder ect?0 -
Well if they are going to charge him with that then I think I will get in on it too. I spilled hot coffee in my lap when I read the main story and burned myself. According to McDonalds that is worth at least 1 million. I would not have spilled my coffee had I not been reading about him fleeing from the police and then the horror of the choppers crashing made my hand go weak. [B)] 0 -
quote:Originally posted by Nwcid
Well if they are going to charge him with that then I think I will get in on it too. I spilled hot coffee in my lap when I read the main story and burned myself. According to McDonalds that is worth at least 1 million. I would not have spilled my coffee had I not been reading about him fleeing from the police and then the horror of the choppers crashing made my hand go weak.
No it was 3 million, so you'll be sitting pretty.
You know come to think of it I picked up a pizza last night on the way home from work and while hearing this story on the news I choked on the pizza when I heard the part about charging the man with murder. My heart rate increased and I was gasping for air and almost passed out. So I want to charge the TV station and the Pheonix police for attempted murder.0 -
"NWCID" That was well said! I don't think he should be charged for the chopper crash. It's not like he shot them down. Plain and simple it was one of the pilot and or pilots error, in this case. 0 -
This is really interesting.
Question: Three guys break into your house.
Two of the guys tie up your wife and daughters
and rape/beat all three. Two die (your choice) -
what do you charge the guy who didn't participate -
let's say he was busy beating you and killing your dog!
... it'd be interesting to see if your answers would
be the same.0 -
'ZZ' Your comparing apples to oranges. 0 -
I'm talking about deaths caused by criminal actions by folks
who do not participate directly in those that/those deaths.
The law is quite clear - has been for more than 60 years, I believe.
Explain what YOU mean.0 -
quote:Originally posted by watrulookinat
'ZZ' Your comparing apples to oranges.
He loves doing that.0 -
Sometimes I do - but I'm really curious now as to the logic being used here - on both our parts.
Unfortunately, beach time - can't get back until later. I would like to see your response, though.
[8D]0 -
quote:Originally posted by zipperzap
Sometimes I do - but I'm really curious now as to the logic being used here - on both our parts.
Unfortunately, beach time - can't get back until later. I would like to see your response, though.
[8D]
I know the logic on my part. Were the copters involved with the crimes being comitted by Jermaine Jones? No.
Was the 3rd guy that was in the house involed with the crime. Yes
Zip you know better than that.0 -
I think it is a real leap to even consider charging him as being responsible for the midair collision of the helicopters and I hope any potential charges are not allowed to proceed and set a really dangerous precedence. Prosecute him for any crimes and any attendant damage he was directly responsible for (running into other cars or cars colliding while getting out of the way of the pursuit), but not for the indirect and tragic possible irresponsibility and negligence of others. To the best of my knowledge they were part of a business enterprise seeking to benefit financially (max TV time) from a Law Enforcement action and were not directly and officially assisting the police in their action.
It seems that today too many people are trying to abrogate responsibility for their actions and attach blame to others.0 -
quote:Originally posted by zipperzap
This is really interesting.
Question: Three guys break into your house.
Two of the guys tie up your wife and daughters
and rape/beat all three. Two die (your choice) -
what do you charge the guy who didn't participate -
let's say he was busy beating you and killing your dog!
... it'd be interesting to see if your answers would
be the same.
All 3 of those guys had direct or indirect actions that caused those things to happen. I believe that criminals should be punished 100% for 100% of the results of their actions. Like I stated in my earlier post had this been a chopper that HAD to be there like a police chopper I would agree 100% that this should be on the criminal.
In this case nothing the criminals did either directly or indirectly caused this accident. Yes the criminals were running but other then that fact, the new crews made the CHOICE to go there. The news crews were not in van up the street when the chase started and had someone run into them due to the chase. In that kind of case put it on the criminal by directly or indirectly causing the accident.0 -
That's just my opinion 'ZZ'. And I'll leave it at that. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by Nwcid
quote:Originally posted by zipperzap
This is really interesting.
Question: Three guys break into your house.
Two of the guys tie up your wife and daughters
and rape/beat all three. Two die (your choice) -
what do you charge the guy who didn't participate -
let's say he was busy beating you and killing your dog!
... it'd be interesting to see if your answers would
be the same.
All 3 of those guys had direct or indirect actions that caused those things to happen. I believe that criminals should be punished 100% for 100% of the results of their actions. Like I stated in my earlier post had this been a chopper that HAD to be there like a police chopper I would agree 100% that this should be on the criminal.
In this case nothing the criminals did either directly or indirectly caused this accident. Yes the criminals were running but other then that fact, the new crews made the CHOICE to go there. The news crews were not in van up the street when the chase started and had someone run into them due to the chase. In that kind of case put it on the criminal by directly or indirectly causing the accident.
I agree but even if they were police copters that crashed it would still have to be a crash that was because of an action by the crimminal. Shooting at them ect. not an accident because of police error ect.0
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