Another religion question.
I'll leave you with another question or statement before I head off to bed.
God knows all, past, present and future.
So he knew before creating Adam and Eve that they would eat from the tree of life. Knowing this in advance and also knowing in advance that he would kick Adam and Eve out of the Garden of Eden, allowing people to become evil (free will) and rape and torture little kids. This along with all other evil things that can and do occur.
It would seem that if God were all knowing and smarter than all of mankind he would see fit to not put the tree of life in the Garden of Eden and save a lot of pain. So knowing in advance that humankind would screw this up, why would he allow it? Just so he could have followers? So he could have entertainment? Or what?
I'll check back tomorrow night to see what people have to say.
God knows all, past, present and future.
So he knew before creating Adam and Eve that they would eat from the tree of life. Knowing this in advance and also knowing in advance that he would kick Adam and Eve out of the Garden of Eden, allowing people to become evil (free will) and rape and torture little kids. This along with all other evil things that can and do occur.
It would seem that if God were all knowing and smarter than all of mankind he would see fit to not put the tree of life in the Garden of Eden and save a lot of pain. So knowing in advance that humankind would screw this up, why would he allow it? Just so he could have followers? So he could have entertainment? Or what?
I'll check back tomorrow night to see what people have to say.
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you cant even imaige how dumb that question was...although there are no dumb questions just dumb people asking them... 0 -
quote:Originally posted by Mr. Gunz
you cant even imaige how dumb that question was...although there are no dumb questions just dumb people asking them...
Please explain why. It makes perfect sense to me.0 -
quote:Originally posted by RUGERGUNZ
quote:Originally posted by Mr. Gunz
you cant even imaige how dumb that question was...although there are no dumb questions just dumb people asking them...
Please explain why. It makes perfect sense to me.
It's a good question. One of my 600 Level lit classes tried to answer it when we read "Paradise Lost". We concluded that its a good question with no real answer.0 -
i dont think that question can be answered. At least not by anyone alive. Maybe a zombie would know? 0 -
Some things we will not understand until we meet Him face to face...then we shall know fully.
We are limited with human thinking and reasoning here on earth. God is not limited in such a way...0 -
Let's just say that History is like a huge volume of books with many different endings. You read a different chapter for each decision you make. God, in his infinite wisdom knows all of the choices that we can make and he knows the outcome for us making each choice, but we still have to make the choice. 0 -
I'm glad you are curious about things of The Bible RUGERGUNZ. If you ever have any questions you can e-mail me at any time and I'll get back with you. I'm not claiming to be a know it all, but to the best of my ability, the answer to your question is that God created man with free will to choose whether to do good or evil. All men from Adam on (except Jesus) have chose to rebel against God and sin. If God made us like robots with no ability to make our own decisions, that wouldn't really be love. It would be like if you locked your teenager in his room until he was 30 years old in order to keep him out of trouble. Or if you locked your wife in the house in order to keep her from cheating. That wouldn't be loving them. You have to let your children and your wife make their own decisions, because you love them, and they are responsible for their own actions, as we are responsible for our actions before God. God loves ALL of us including you RUGERGUNZ, more than we could ever understand, more than we love our own children. I know this because He loves me and has forgiven me, and if He could love me and forgive me, He loves you and will forgive you. God has provided mankind a way out of the punishment we all deserve for our sins. That way out is his son Jesus Christ who lived a sinless life, and gave his life so that those who trust in him will be saved. Jesus will forgive you if truly believe in him and repent of your sins and ask for forgiveness. 0 -
man created God, then man created politics, now they are one and the same.Thats the holy trinity. 0 -
I asked a question somewhat like that to a guy I knew (who turned out to be a presbytyrian preacher) he said, God knows ahead of time; it's like a father that puts the car keys on a table and says "don't take them!" and turns his back, knowing already if his son will take them behind his back (or not). it's just something He did, He already knew what the outcome would be.
so, I suppose, God did that, knowing full well what the outcome would be. how mankind would turn out.
but that would only explain "what is going on", to reconcile your concerns about His all-knowing. yes He knows. "why", I suppose, would be up to Him in His infinite wisdom.
if you believe in all that.0 -
I asked the same question when I was much younger and more inclined to argue and question. The answer is right there in the Bible, I forget the exact passage, but God is quoted as saying, "My ways are not your ways."
So, it is futile to try and apply human logic to God's motives.0 -
quote:Originally posted by nunn
I asked the same question when I was much younger and more inclined to argue and question. The answer is right there in the Bible, I forget the exact passage, but God is quoted as saying, "My ways are not your ways."
So, it is futile to try and apply human logic to God's motives.
Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near: Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon. For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts. For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater: So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it. -Isaiah 55:6-110 -
quote:Originally posted by Oklahoma223
I'm glad you are curious about things of The Bible RUGERGUNZ. If you ever have any questions you can e-mail me at any time and I'll get back with you. I'm not claiming to be a know it all, but to the best of my ability, the answer to your question is that God created man with free will to choose whether to do good or evil. All men from Adam on (except Jesus) have chose to rebel against God and sin. If God made us like robots with no ability to make our own decisions, that wouldn't really be love. It would be like if you locked your teenager in his room until he was 30 years old in order to keep him out of trouble. Or if you locked your wife in the house in order to keep her from cheating. That wouldn't be loving them. You have to let your children and your wife make their own decisions, because you love them, and they are responsible for their own actions, as we are responsible for our actions before God. God loves ALL of us including you RUGERGUNZ, more than we could ever understand, more than we love our own children. I know this because He loves me and has forgiven me, and if He could love me and forgive me, He loves you and will forgive you. God has provided mankind a way out of the punishment we all deserve for our sins. That way out is his son Jesus Christ who lived a sinless life, and gave his life so that those who trust in him will be saved. Jesus will forgive you if truly believe in him and repent of your sins and ask for forgiveness.
Correctly said. God has given has the ability to choose to love him or not, rather than creating us and forcing us to love him, which would not be love at all. He knows the decisions that we will make, though we are free to decide however we want, so he can work things out as they should be. And that was the tree of the knowledge of good and evil that they ate the fruit from, not the tree of life. They were taken out of the garden before they could eat of that tree, and live forever. The tree of life will be in heaven, and there we will live forever, those who have chosen to love God, and be free from sin.0 -
DISCLAIMER:
The following post is the OPINION of the poster ONLY, and he should have stated it as such:
The answer is quite simple: religion is a crock of shaite, dreamed up by a bunch of people working through different languages, time periods, and cultures. The Judeo-Christian faith is just a hodgepodge of beliefs from previous religions, mashed together and recombined in such a way that little of it makes sense, and is almost unintelligible.
Imagine taking 10 fiction novels at random from a library, tearing out all the pages and throwing them all in a pile. Mix them up really well, tear a few pages in half for good measure, then glue them all back together into one book. That, in a nutshell, is christianity.
Theres no point in trying to make sense of it. Even true believers admit it's illogical (refer to nunn's post above).0 -
so He created mankind knowing that some of them would love/worship him.
if He would have made it so that everybody loved/worshipped him, that wouldn't be true love/worship, would it?
I think that's an answer to the question.0 -
quote:Imagine taking 10 fiction novels at random from a library, tearing out all the pages and throwing them all in a pile. Mix them up really well, tear a few pages in half for good measure, then glue them all back together into one book.
Great example of the theory of evelotion, mind if I use it?0 -
quote:Originally posted by buschmaster
so He created mankind knowing that some of them would love/worship him.
if He would have made it so that everybody loved/worshipped him, that wouldn't be true love/worship, would it?
I think that's an answer to the question.
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. -2 Peter 3:90 -
okay, but the question was why did God do things this way. 0 -
I'll let God explain it to you when you meet him face to face. 0 -
that is the finite trying to understand the infinite 0 -
that can be easily done. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by Mk 19
that is the finite trying to understand the infinite
What everyone else is saying.0 -
I am an atheist and that question is exactly why. Every single religion out the contradicts itself in some way. 0 -
win the lotto, survive a car crash its gods will. whole famly burned alive, your young son raped by his priest god works in mysteries ways. jd 0 -
I'm an atheist, but was raised Christian (non-denominational). I'll try to explain this as if I were a believer still. From what I remember, God says in the Bible "I set before you this day, life and death, blessings and cursings, you choose life".
To play devil's advocate here, I think God knew what we (or rather, Adam and Eve) would do. But in allowing mankind to choose for itself, it strengthens humanity when we/they know that they made a right choice. It's sort of like when a toddler is learning to walk, or even more so, when a teenager is learning to drive. It's a sense of accomplishment and satisfaction knowing that they are succeeding. If a person who thinks they are weak willed, or doomed to fail, makes the right choice, even though God knew they would already make it, the person themselves did not know in advance, so they gain strength from their success and see themselves as a success.
It's a confidence builder to know you succeeded. And that confidence can be the difference, to you, when you have to face harder choices later on, even though God knows the choice you will make, it still helps you, because you did not know what choice you would make, spur of the moment, under pressure. It's for our own benefit, not God's, to have to make choices. All this, hypothetically speaking, if I believed in God to begin with.0 -
God gave us free will, it is our human evil nature's fault. 0 -
quote:Just so he could have followers?
That's the answer.0 -
quote:Originally posted by buschmaster
so He created mankind knowing that some of them would love/worship him.
if He would have made it so that everybody loved/worshipped him, that wouldn't be true love/worship, would it?
I think that's an answer to the question.
Wise words...I'm impressed with your understanding...0 -
quote:Originally posted by buschmaster
okay, but the question was why did God do things this way.
How can we, with our finite minds, understand God's infinite ways...it is just impossible. When we meet Him face to face, we will know fully.0 -
Free will is fairly obvious since you and I have the ability to ask this question. So... It seems we have free will.
There are those who might argue whether free will is God-given or merely a fact of life. Further, these very people might well argue that God doesn't exist. Which, I guess, is a distinct possibility since I certainly can't prove the fact one way or the other.
And so it comes down to faith and logic. Speaking for myself, the wonder of the universe is enough to give me faith. I find it illogical that anyone could believe otherwise, but many certainly do! And they find it illogical that I might believe. To each his own... And this is a choice given to us, isn't it?
As to God knowing every detail of the past, present, and future... I find this an interesting question or statement. I'll even side with non-believers as the typical Christian explanation is pretty weak and seems filled with contradictions.
For myself, I prefer the alpha and omega approach. I would expect that my God created the universe. Assuming that I'm correct, then He knew every detail of what was in His universe. Thus, He was aware of the beginning and the end, and all things in between. I think this in between part is where we mortals stray and become confused.
Being aware and being controlling are two distinctly different things. My God is very aware, but not controlling. I believe that within the parameters He has set up I have free choice.
Let's assume that there is a God and that He knows every detail about every human being in creation. Might it not follow that He would be aware of every possible path that each of us might follow within our alloted time here on earth? Might it not be His greatest gift and greatest curse to allow us humans a freedom of choice within what He has provided?
Would it be unfair to speculate that for some reason unknown to us mortals that God needs to weed the crop that He planted? Is it not possible that God allowed both evil and good to flourish at creation for His purposes? Is it not fair to speculate that God gave each of us a breath of life, a span of time, and a variety of paths that we might freely explore and follow within that span?
If so, then it would all make perfect sense... To me, anyway. Should the paths I choose lead me toward the perfectness of my God, then it would be my hope that He not cast me aside when I'm called to account for myself. Should I choose a darker path, then I suspect I won't be among His chosen.
In other words we'll all merely be a part of a harvest. Whether we're judged good fruit or bad is totally our own choice. I don't believe that God will be surprised at the outcome of any of our lives. He was well aware from the beginning that there was a portion of His "crop" that would fall below expectations. By giving us life He enabled the process. We're the one's who decide, but within His rules.
I expect that if I'm wrong it won't make much difference as neither I nor anyone else will ever be aware of anything beyond our final breath. Should I be right though, then it's a different ball game entirely. I'll be very aware as I stand before Him and receive whatever I've come to deserve.
And that's free will! My choices made in my time. I believe that He will judge those choices, but won't be surprised by them. After all, He gave them to me in the first place.0 -
...or would you? even if you're in heaven, how could you fully understand God? he's still God, you're not. do all the rest of the angels -like yourself- understand God? they don't have His infinite wisdom, do they?
who's to say that when you 'go to heaven', you understand a lot more because now you're there and you see what you can't see here on earth, but still, you aren't as God himself (you're still the worshipper and he's the worshippee) so therefore, you still can't fully understand him?
disclaimer: I still don't believe in all this stuff, this is just conjecture.0
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