Ethanol plant shuts down
Our local ethanol plant just announced they are temporarily shutting down. Due to high corn prices and low sale price apparently they cannot even break even. Corn is $3 bushel which make 3 gallons of ethanol ($1 gallon). Don't know what production costs are. The plant is getting $1.70 a gallon. I'm not sure if they are getting federal subsidies but I know they are not getting any state subsidies (yet). The State does have monies set aside for ethanol subsidies and has recently discussed releasing it. I suspect this is a ploy influence the state to release those funds as the owner has another plant which is remaining open and he is not stopping construction on a new one. Makes me wonder how they survived 2 years ago when fuel was even cheaper.
Unfortunately the closure is a big hit on our small community. 40 jobs and about 700K in utility income could be lost to the community if it shuts down long term. Given all the corn that was grown in this area this year (we are not really corn country), and the states option to release subsity money I suspect the closure will be short term. I think this just reinforces that ethanol is NOT a solution to our energy needs.
Unfortunately the closure is a big hit on our small community. 40 jobs and about 700K in utility income could be lost to the community if it shuts down long term. Given all the corn that was grown in this area this year (we are not really corn country), and the states option to release subsity money I suspect the closure will be short term. I think this just reinforces that ethanol is NOT a solution to our energy needs.
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I don't wish any ill will on the people in your area, but dammit, converting major source of the food supply chain to a fuel is just brainless to the nth degree.
What was predicted has happened. Corn has skyrocketed. And, as many of you have seen when you go to the grocery store, so has the price of most of your other foods that have something to do with corn (beef, milk, poultry, eggs, dairy, etc.).0 -
As a side note considerable acreage of CRP expired recently. Word is that a pretty large chunk of it is going into corn production next year. I expect a year maybe two of good corn prices before it takes a dump. That will be good for the ethanol producers but then nobody will want to grow it. It should be interesting. 5-60K bushel bins were built this summer by a private party and 2 more are under construction by the local elevator exclusively for corn. I think they were planning on selling a lot of it to the ethanol plant. OPs. 0 -
I was ignorant about how we use all the corn we grow. I found this article on the National Corn Growers Association website that explaines it.
http://www.ncga.com/news/OurView/pdf/2006/FoodANDFuel.pdf
livestock Feed and residual 46.8%
Exports (mostly to feed livestock) 17.2%
Ethanol 17.2%
Suplus 7.9%
HFCS, Sweeteners, starch, alcohol, cereals 11%0 -
i heard/read recently that this ethanol was far more injurious to the atmosphere than originally believed.
our politicians need to take a clue from our founding fathers........, grow and use HEMP !
i done a search on this plant several months ago and it is surprizing all the uses it can be put to, clothing to fuel for home and auto.0 -
quote:Originally posted by USN_Airdale
i heard/read recently that this ethanol was far more injurious to the atmosphere than originally believed.
our politicians need to take a clue from our founding fathers........, grow and use HEMP !
i done a search on this plant several months ago and it is surprizing all the uses it can be put to, clothing to fuel for home and auto.
I completely agree. Hemp won't solve all of our nation's agriculturalor fuel problems, but it is an incredibly versatile plant. Tin-foil hat-types that I know are convinced that Big Oil helped put hemp out of business with a massive propaganda campaign including that wonderful little comedy, "Reefer Madness".
Unfortunately, most modern politicians are philosophically as far from our Founding Fathers as one can get.0 -
If they aged it in charred oak and sold it by the quart they could certainly turn a profit on ethanol. Jack Daniels does pretty well with it. 0 -
Ethanol costs more energy to produce than it yields. Using ethanol as a motor vehicle fuel is simply stupid. 
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Ethanol is not the solution to our energy problems.
If it were so great, it would sell like hotcakes without massive government subsidies.
Time to go on to Plan C.0 -
The creation of Ethanol.....involves the creation of oxygen. Corn creates oxygen while growing.
Oil out of wells burns oxygen and creates no oxygen in the cycle.
One bushel of corn is not very much but it yields 3 gallons of fuel...of which is only $1.70 a gallon.
How much is gas a gallon? I can create 1 gallon of ethanol from corn for about $1.50. Homegrown, home picked.
How does it cost more to create ethanol again?
How does ethanol polute the environment more than gasoline?
Does anyone have ANY idea how much Carbon Dioxide/Monoxide is REMOVED from the atmosphere from growing Corn? How much Oxygen is added?
Now figure out how much Carbon Dioxide/Monoxide is removed from the air if we keep just burning gasoline...none...we ADD! How much oxygen do you add to the atmosphere burning gasoline....NONE.
Just because some politically grant driven college misfit writes otherwise doesn't mean his drivel is fact. Get some common sense Americans you sheeple.0 -
"How much is gas a gallon? I can create 1 gallon of ethanol from corn for about $1.50. Homegrown, home picked."
Then set up your gas station, you genius, and you can sell your ethanol for $1.25 per gallon profit. You will soon be a millionaire.0 -
Please don't use up any valuable oxygen burning your ethonol however. 0 -
I read somewhere, maybe on e85.com, that without govt subs, ethanol would be $14.00 per gallon. 0 -
Nitrogen in the fertilizer, fuel for the tractors/pickers/etc. Fuel to transport the fertilizer, fuel used to refine/mix the fertilizer, fuel used to refine/process the ethanol, depletion of topsoil from over farming for corn, and more.
Ethanol is a very bad idea. We need to use nuclear power to generate electricity, thus making electric vehicles actually non-polluting. Given the current state of technology some fossil fueled vehicles will still be needed, but they can be phased out as technology advances.0 -
quote:Originally posted by 320090T
I read somewhere, maybe on e85.com, that without govt subs, ethanol would be $14.00 per gallon.
Ok then....factor in Govt. subsidies on oil and gasoline would be $50 a gallon. Why are we in the middle east again?....war is the subsidy....and it involves blood sacrifice as well.
Here's your corn subsidies receivers showing they've been raking in alot more in the last decade than they've ever dreamed of:
http://farm.ewg.org/farm/top_recips.php?fips=00000&progcode=corn
Who gets those subsidies:
www.heritage.org/Research/Agriculture/BG1542.cfm
Corporations. Not Farmers. It's political bribe money. Politicians figured out a good way to rob the treasury for their political party. Farm subsidies really have no effect on the price of corn.0 -
quote:Originally posted by ObiWan
How does it cost more to create ethanol again?
A lot more than you're thinking. It takes more than a gallon of fuel to physically create a gallon of ethanol. Between harvesting the crop, refining it and shipping it to the fuel station.
This is a losing situation, and the only thing it is doing is making corn farmers rich (which I have no problem with) and needlessly driving up the cost of food for all Americans (which I do have a problem with).0 -
The production of ethanol MAY become cost effective when it is the fuel used to produce the corn used to make ethanol but we are far from that point yet.
Just a note on hemp. This state has approved the growth of hemp and the Feds have approved and set up regulations for the growth of hemp.
The problem is the enforcement agency REFUSES to grant permits. Two farmers here have been trying for two years to get a permit. They have dotted thier I's and crossed there T's and are hitting a stone wall.0 -
"Ethanol is a very bad idea. We need to use nuclear power to generate electricity, thus making electric vehicles actually non-polluting. Given the current state of technology some fossil fueled vehicles will still be needed, but they can be phased out as technology advances."
-Old Fool
You're just an Old Fool !!
Well, then...so am I.
Doug0 -
About 10 years ago, I heard the president of ADM's grain division say elthanol comfortably breaks even with $2.75 corn and Gasoline retailing about $1.50. Remember this was about 1996 figures. Also, because of the size of ADM's plants and there low level of debt, they are able to take advantage of high production per facility (low fixed costs per plant compared to nwe small plants) and many of these newer micro plants probably have a somewhat higher debt and interest to pay for. Yeah, the profit margins probably aren't as good for many of these small plants that only refine 20,000,000 bushels per year (or less).
I fully expect many of these new plants to be bought out by ADM and Cargill in the next 10 years. Because of there size and diversity, these big companies will be able to sustain sqwings in the market. Small time LLC refiners are going to be more susceptible to swings in the market.
To put it another way, if I had $100,000 to invest, I would buy stock in ADM rather than any of these ethanol startup's. (You can't buy stock in Cargill. They are America's largest privately owned company.)0 -
Biggest no brainer in the history of earth...
It's more profitable to take oil out of the ground, refine it and sell it as gasoline than to have to pay for the costs of growing corn.
If we had to "grow" oil, it would also cost more. Unfortunately, many conservationists, heck most people, believe the is a finite supply of oil, and other forms of energy need to be developed. While it would be really nice to have cars that are fueled by water, we cannot bank or hopes on such an energy system.
America's energy policy does need to diversify more and remove more resrtictions. If we want to be lees dependant on foriegn oil, we need to encourage and not discourage alternate sources of energy. Ethanol is bad? Windmills are bad? Nuclear power is evil? Coal...another dang fossil fuel. Environmentalists even don't like hydoelectric dams because the can change river flows. The sad truth is, there is no form of energy that someone in America is against.
I say let's embrace all form of energy. Let's encourage lower costs for energy, not higher costs. Let's develope ANWAR. Let's look for oil in the great lakes. Let's look for oil of the coast of Kalifornia.
If we had to "make" oil, it would also be less profitable to refine. In any case, as the price of oil increases, alternatives become possible and more competitive. Or, as the price of oil increases, other less profitable and more costly forms of energy can become competitive.0 -
but...but ...but ...this is supposed to save us all...new plant in pratt ks. is supposed to start this winter ???????.. i got so rich farming i had to quit(yeah you bet)....fertilizer, fuel, repairs, oil, everything highest price inputs ever since started in 1964...yet grain prices have not gone up that 300-400% to match...besides when grain prices get so high then foreign grain is imported to reduce feeders or mfg costs...easy example is poison wheat products from china to emporia, ks....like they couldn't buy wheat from the elevator across town!!!!! in the middle of the wheat belt????.. i think this may provide some short term profits for producers but then the input costs will still be there when grain prices slump... & ewg. $$$ figures are misleading to the uninformed 0 -
Converting corn to ethanol is very inefficient. For the same acreage switchgrass will make atleast 3 times the biofuel corn will and can be harvested twice a year. It would also be a native grass for most of the midwest and is drought resistant and can manage the poor soil quality as well. As a bonus it would be better for wildlife. 0 -
A new ethanol plant a few miles from me stopped construction last spring. Corn is just too high to make it profitable.
Ethanol would never have been profitable if not for the federal subsidy on every gallon. It is no surprise the industry is in trouble. Industries which operate under supply and demand are the only way to go-government interference in the form of subsidies is a sure fire way to foul up the natural order of things.0 -
quote:Originally posted by flyingtorpedo
Converting corn to ethanol is very inefficient. For the same acreage switchgrass will make atleast 3 times the biofuel corn will and can be harvested twice a year. It would also be a native grass for most of the midwest and is drought resistant and can manage the poor soil quality as well. As a bonus it would be better for wildlife.
Unfortunately, switch grass cannot be stored and delivered to the refiner 11 months after it was harvested. Refiners could not feasibly handle the switch grass in such a short season from so many acres.0 -
A tax discount to encourage growth of an industry is not the same as a subsidy. Ethanol is not taxed like the gasoline.
This is kind of like when one party in Congress wants to reduce the amount of growth in a budget and the other party calls it a cut in funding a program.0 -
One poster here stated a misconception. FARMERS are getting RICH off ethanol/corn prices . I would like to REMIND you folks that the usual profit margin for crop farming is ONE percent. Yeah corn prices INCREASED, well so does seed, fuel, equipment cost, ect. ect. Most people really have NO idea how much it COSTS a farmer to get the goods to the elevator. What, you think landowners aren't getting MORE for cash rents now that corn is selling for more? Least we not forget that everyone with a hand STICKS it in the farmers pocket.
The only way ethanol will be viable is IF
1 we find a way to make it a stand alone fuel. We need to develop the lubricant in it like petroleum.
2 There needs to be a way to produce more with less.
But WTH do I know.0 -
some of you guys dont know your head from your a s s about production of corn...what there is....is a net energy loss producing food of people who do nothing but sit on their a s s at a computer think they know how much it takes to do something who have never done it......i can produce 100 bu/ac corn and thats planted harvested on less than 2 gals of diesel fuel that 100 bu/ac corn can produce 250 gals+ of fuel.....the distillers grain is then fed to livestock .....corn is almost a 1.00 a bushel less now than from the high........god theres some stupid people in this world.......hell they just asked for 190 billion for war which does boil down to its for oil.....the whole farkin middle east deal does boil down to oil like it not....why the hell would we even care about the middle east.... sure as hell is not because we need a good supply of sand. 0 -
And I believe I saw somewhere that you can't pipeline ethanol. It has to be trucked everywhere. I am doubting it's viability to be the answer also. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by fideau
And I believe I saw somewhere that you can't pipeline ethanol. It has to be trucked everywhere. I am doubting it's viability to be the answer also.
Yes, but it can be shipped by rail and barge.
Iowa Interstate.0 -
I'm real tired, I've got a headache, I've got to go to work shortly so I have no time to properly respond. There's nothing wrong with Ethanol, all gasoline in the states must contain 10% ethanol by law. Would you rather keep sending your money to Abdul in the middle east? The Grafton plant that was shut down is I believe the oldest plant in Dakota. Wasn't it constructed in '74? It probably needs some upgrades as the newer ones are much more efficient. Dave 0 -
The ones around me currently running are piling corn here now. 2.80 cash price here yesterday.still, I think the "Boom" in the industry is over.Like the railroads......airlines & other industries...would'nt last a week without UNCLE SAM'S help.[V]My prediction is 5 yrs from now....the ones still in bussiness will probably be owned by a big bussiness.{big oil??}.conservation of resourses has'nt been mentioned since the seventies so i guess that's out[;)]. 0
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