FTF transfer? Update
I just sold a rifle here on GB and the buyer wants to do a FTF. The buyer is an in state person so I know FTF is legal but I have a few questions. Of the few guns I have sold they have been to people I know or gone through and FFL. What is the most common way to make sure you are not selling it to someone that is not allowed to own them, or is this even my problem? How do I "get it out of my name" or if I am ever questioned about the gun prove I sold it? I have no problems with FTF.
The subject of the FTF was brought up in such a way that it makes me a little curious.
Buyer: "I live in XXXX, when will you be here next".
Me: "I live on the other side of the state". Explain where I live and how far away. "Are you looking to do a FTF"?
Buyer: "Would like to do private if possible".
Me: More info about how far away I live. "I do require positive ID even on FTF, DL
preferred, just for my files. I am sure you can
understand that". Offer for him to make suggestions.
Buyer: Offers one line for meeting. " I think its kind of strange you keep copies of people you sell to, Ive been buying 20 years and never seen that from private seller. Dont you think thats odd"?
Something about this deal seems kinda off to me but maybe I am wrong. I know some people are not good at emails but the more we talk the worse I feel. Buyer is a NR, I know we all have to start somewhere. Any suggestions would be great.
The subject of the FTF was brought up in such a way that it makes me a little curious.
Buyer: "I live in XXXX, when will you be here next".
Me: "I live on the other side of the state". Explain where I live and how far away. "Are you looking to do a FTF"?
Buyer: "Would like to do private if possible".
Me: More info about how far away I live. "I do require positive ID even on FTF, DL
preferred, just for my files. I am sure you can
understand that". Offer for him to make suggestions.
Buyer: Offers one line for meeting. " I think its kind of strange you keep copies of people you sell to, Ive been buying 20 years and never seen that from private seller. Dont you think thats odd"?
Something about this deal seems kinda off to me but maybe I am wrong. I know some people are not good at emails but the more we talk the worse I feel. Buyer is a NR, I know we all have to start somewhere. Any suggestions would be great.
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If he really wants an FTF tell him to come to you, with a copy of his DL and a notarized statement that he is not a prohibited person. I agree that is sounds fishy[;)] 
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That sounds fishy, that the guy is willing to drive all the way across the state of Washington to buy a gun that could easily be shipped.
Washington is a big state, I used to live near Newport.
It does sound to me like a convicted felon.
It must be a hard-to-find gun that he is buying from you, otherwise, it would be pretty easy for the guy to just buy a normal deer rifle or .22 semi auto out of the local papers, no questions asked.0 -
i wouldn't do it myself with a stranger, i would meet him at a local ffl, and transfer it through him, or tell him that it will be done that way or the local pd at the least, so they can verify his information 0 -
Whatever you do, don't meet him at your home.
I like the suggestion above about meeting at a local FFL and having him do the transfer.0 -
If I sell a firearm to a stranger, I'll sell it FTF to anyone I don't immediately dislike.
I NEVER keep a record of those sales.
I am a strong advocate of the Second Amendment, and all it implies.
Doug0 -
quote:Originally posted by Doug Wilson
If I sell a firearm to a stranger, I'll sell it FTF to anyone I don't immediately dislike.
I NEVER keep a record of those sales.
I am a strong advocate of the Second Amendment, and all it implies.
Doug
There you go. I sold my SKS FTF to an older gentleman, really nice guy, said he was looking for a cheap shooter to leave at his cabin in upstate Florida. I asked to see his drivers license, because if they wont show you that theres something wrong, i looked at it, he paid, then left.0 -
Ask if he has a CCW permit.
That will clear you on age, and him being a felon.
I agree with Doug, and Suburban though,......nothing required, although I do find the fact that someone questions showing a DL though.
Go with your gut feeling.0 -
Yea CCW would solve the whole problem! 0 -
I don't see it as a problem.
We either have the Right, or we don't.
Doug0 -
Doug,......I get your point, and it is well taken, but he may want to have a "clear consciense", regardless of requirements.
I have done several FTF, and all felt "correct".
If I thought I was selling a gun to a drug dealer, that may use it to kill someone I know, or even family, I would not do it,......regardless of the 2nd.
I am a good judge of character, and that is what I go by.
To each their own![;)]0 -
Well, if it feels like a "funny" deal, I just won't do it - regardless of what his ID says or how much I stand to make.
Doug0 -
quote:Originally posted by Doug Wilson
Well, if it feels like a "funny" deal, I just won't do it - regardless of what his ID says or how much I stand to make.
Doug
I knew that was how you deal with it, just like me.0 -
Thanks for the feedback so far. I do believe in the 2nd 100% but not everyone else does including the society that we live in right now. This deal just seems a little strange and I wanted to know if I was making a big deal about it or not. Being that it feels a bit like a funny deal I wanted to see what others do as I have not done any FTF with people I dont know. After my flags were up is when I asked about ID, and I get a semi run around which keeps my flags up.
I am just wondering Doug what do you do or what would you do say the cops come to you in a year and say the found a stolen gun in your name? Or that it was used in a crime? For me to say I sold it to xxx on xxx day takes me off the hook. I am sure the cops have never heard the line "well I sold it" when looking into a crime. I am not talking about advertising the buyers name or running to the cops if someone gets shot with that kind of gun, but for direct questions I would like to have something to fall back on. If it gets stolen and the cops bring it to me I would be able to get it back to the owner I sold it too.0 -
The pure of heart bear no fear.
Kind of a platitude, but that's my approach. I'd just tell the truth with as much detail as I could remember.
I have sold dozens of firearms over the last (almost) 50 years, and have not yet encountered a problem. If I ever do, I'll deal with it then.
Doug0 -
A lot of people just don't want any "paperwork" on their gun(s).
Especially if it was an AR, AK, SKS, etc. type rifle. [;)]
"I" might not want the government knowing I had it either.
I once drove 4 hours (one way) to pick up a pistol I wanted.
Did the FTF, no problem, no paperwork, no big deal.0 -
+
D.0 -
Bottom line-if it feels fishy it probably is and I wouldn't do it myself. The gut is right more often than it is wrong. Best of luck 0 -
quote:Originally posted by Doug Wilson
If I sell a firearm to a stranger, I'll sell it FTF to anyone I don't immediately dislike.
I NEVER keep a record of those sales.
I am a strong advocate of the Second Amendment, and all it implies.
Doug
Right on the mark Doug!0 -
Ok, I am having tons of problems with this "buyer" now. He keeps giving me the run around on stuff. I am on dial up right now so it would be hard to post the emails but they have gone from bad to worse. At what point do you just call an end to it and leave bad feedback? 0 -
quote:Originally posted by Nwcid
At what point do you just call an end to it and leave bad feedback?
Sounds like you have reached that point.0 -
I'm not sure what dial up has to do with copy/paste of email text....
Just keep in mind that this guy has whatever address you gave to Gun Broker.0 -
Well being on dial up and at work means it takes a long time to get it all done since there are several emails. I did manage to get it done though. The only thing changed are things to protect the buyers ID by using xxx.
I live in xxx Washington. When you coming into town next?
Thanks,
xxx
Are you going to be in xxx Washington anytime soon?
xxx
I don't have any plans on being in that area anytime
soon. Yakima is as close as I get on a normal basis.
Are you looking to do a FTF transfer?
Thanks,
John
Would like to do private if possible.
xxx
FTF = Face to Face. As I said in my last email I am
in Yakima weekly, but have no plans to be in the SW
part of the state any time soon. Do you have any
suggestions? I do require positive ID even on FTF, DL
preferred, just for my files. I am sure you can
understand that. Please let me know what you would
like to do, I will be any help I can.
Thanks,
John
Yes I could maybe meet you halfway FTF. I think its kind of strange you keep copies of people you sell to, Ive been buying 20 years and never seen that from private seller. Dont you think thats odd?
xxx
This is the 6th email I have sent you since 10-12-07.
If I do not hear from you within 24 hrs I will be
forced to start the non paying bidder process and
leave bad feedback. I hope it does not come to that
as it is not good for either of us.
I am doing a follow up about my previous emails.
Please let me know what you would like to do.
Did you get my last email, I have not heard back from
you. Here is a copy.
(original section)
Sorry it took me so long to get back to you but it is
opening weekend of hunting season. I personally do
not think it is odd that I want a record of where my
firearms go incase anything happens. Say the gun gets
stolen and the cops bring it back to me being that I
was the last owner that they know of. I could say I
sold it to so and so please contact them, I am sure
they would like it back. I have sold very few
firearms and they have been shipped to FFL or to
someone I know.
I am not going to be able to meet anywhere closer then
Yakima for several weeks due to my work schedule. As
far as ID since it is not a requirement I will not ask
for it.
Thanks,
John
You sent me a kooky email stating some strange things. Next include your strange requirements in your advertising before someone buys from you. Threats don't shake me, they can work both ways.
xxx
There is no threat. I have emailed you with the same
email letter for 5 days straight with no reply. I am
trying to complete this deal or I need to relist it.
What would you do if you were unable to get a reply in
5 days?
If you would like the rifle I am will to ship it to
your FFL as stated in the listing, "I will only ship
firearms to valid FFL holders". Nowhere in my ad
states that I will do FTF. I also state that payment
is due within 7 days which is more then reasonable.
It has been more then 7 days but if you would like the
rifle under the terms stated in the ad please let me
know within a reasonable time.
Thanks,
John
Your the one that offered it FTF after contact, with some type of kooky police state restriction. Then went on a 5 day harassment and threat campaign.
xxx
The terms are as stated in the auction, and always
have been. Are you going to complete the deal per the
terms or not?
Thanks,
John
You modified the terms with your offer of FTF. Who would you like me to send the emails to?
I never modified the terms. Your first email was very
unclear as to what you were wanting to do. I asked if
you were talking about an FTF to clarify what you were
asking me. You said that is what you were wanting and
so I gave you the terms for the FTF and you did not
like those terms. You did not ask about the FTF terms
prior to bidding. At this point you have 3 options
FTF terms, auction terms, or not buying. Please let
me know what you would like to do.
I have no idea what you are asking here "Who would you
like me to send the emails to?"
At this point I am so confused on what it is that you
are wanting please let me know.
Thanks,
John
If you want to bring the weapon to xxx Washington, I will buy it on your ftf terms- I want a copy of your ID too. You can meet me at my office where I have a xerox machine. I am a private investigator...
xxx
I am not coming to xxx and never said that I
would. You asked me if I was in the first email you
sent and I told you the same thing. If you want to
FTF I can meet you in Yakima, as I live out by
Spokane. If not the only other option is to ship it
to your FFL.
I have no problem giving you a copy my ID, I would not
expect anything less. As a buyer I would expect a
bill of sale as well.
What does "I am a private investigator..." have to do
with anything about this?
Thanks,
John0 -
Sounds ugly. Good luck with that, and keep us posted. 0 -
When I do a FTF in Washington, I use this: http://www.dol.wa.gov/forms/652004.pdf
I let the buyer have a copy and then file my copy in the safe. Do I like to do this, no. But I believe you need to cover your backside0 -
That buyer sounds like a first class flake. 0 -
This is one I would abort.
PIs are almost always broke, so he may be stalling for time.
I;d give him x number of day to get you the money, and DEMAND to ship to an FFL.
This is not a guy that you'll want any kind of long term relationship with.
Doug0 -
I did a FTF a week ago...but I met the guy at a gun shop the day before successfully passing his BG Check and picking up an AK, so I felt fine with it...also printed up a bill of sale and had us both sign a copy for each of us, listing the type of gun and the serial number... 0 -
My rifle would have been relisted about 7 days ago. Good luck with that one. Ask questions/special arrangement before bidding period. You've put up with him longer than I would. I was like you about 20 feedbacks ago....just didn't want that first neg. feedback. Then I sold a gun to a fellow that disregarded EVERY requirement I put in my ad. Had enough when he started in on the "I'm a cop" thing (not bashing cops) which holds NO weight in these kinds of dealings. Anybody that knows me knows I'll bend over backward on a sale, but I won't bend over forwards.[;)] Told him to neg. me I wasn't selling to him and was relisting it. Neither of us left feedback for the other. You get these types if you sell enough. People can read your feedbacks and know your a good seller. Good luck.
Ben0 -
Private investigators are supposed to be licensed by the State -- I'd check and see if he is, in fact, licensed.
I suspect he isn't. (He knew you were not coming to his location, so he is BSing you now about "coming to his office" and his being a PI.)
If (when) you find he is not a PI, send a copy of the email where he claims he's a PI to the appropriate state agency and explain that he was trying to buy a firearm from you without using an FFL and made the claim that he was a Private Investigator.0 -
You have been more than generous with you time on this one.
It's time for the buyer to put up or back out.
You don't mention if he has any feedback?0
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