Official UFC thread
UFC 71 this Saturday night.
So who's it going to be, "The Iceman" Chuck Liddel or Quinton "Rampage" Jackson?
So who's it going to be, "The Iceman" Chuck Liddel or Quinton "Rampage" Jackson?
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Liddel in the first round by TKO 0 -
It speaks poorly of our civilization that such a thing has enough of an audience to support it. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by nunn
It speaks poorly of our civilization that such a thing has enough of an audience to support it.
I've always been a fan of martial arts. Some people like it, some don't.0 -
quote:It speaks poorly of our civilization that such a thing has enough of an audience to support it.
David, This is not boxing or WWF, these men and women are very skilled at what they do an it is that skill they each posses that is the draw. You should try to watch some time, they are relly great fights.0 -
I'll say Chuck with a TKO mid way second round. 0 -
Chuckie wins with a surgical strike 30 seconds into round 1.[8D] 0 -
My bet is on Chuck. Although I am a little worried after watching the fight these two had in Pride. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by XLpitman
My bet is on Chuck. Although I am a little worried after watching the fight these two had in Pride.
That Pride fight was several years ago. But I'm sure The Iceman is taking Jackson seriously. I would hate to see Chuck loose his title. Jackson is a real contender though.0 -
(pulls up a chair hoping for some good UFC action)...
Picking this one is tuff...Lidell has the advantage in striking but I think Jackson has the better ground and pound not to mention the monster slams. Neither fighter is likely to try a submission (submission by strikes not included)...Jackson's last submission win was in 2003 and Lidells' was in 1999.
Interesting tidbit of information...Jackson has never been KOed by a punch (Lidell's specialty) but has been KOed by knees (not Lidell's specialty).
This should be a great fight. I think we will see Jackson push Lidell harder than anyone has and if Jackson can get inside then Chuck will spend most of the night on his back. But that is the trick...getting inside of Lidell's hands...one punch and Jackson takes a nap.
I think the UFC upset train will continue to roll...Jackson wins by TKO (Strikes) in the 4th.0 -
I figured that you would be along Elk. You mean Chuck actually won a fight by submission?
Jackson's last submission win was in 2003 and Lidells' was in 1999
Question on this one is will Rampage get that take down or will he have too much respect for Liddel's striking to shoot in for it? Not to mention Chuck defends against the take down pretty well. Tito tried repeatedly to get him down and only sort of succeeded once.0 -
Gotta agree with Nunn on this one...yes, we are indeed a civilized society![xx(] 0 -
I like the UFC.
I took eighteen months of Japanese karate. Our instructor hated the high kicks of the Korean styles, and told us that Japanese was always superior.
Then, I took six months of Hapkido, and tae kwon do, Korean styles. There I was taught that Japanese was no good, and the Korean would always win.
So I always wondered which style was superior. I eagerly watched the first UFC fights, back in the nineties. I saw jiu jitsu win, and realized that a good fighter had to be a good grappler. No grappling was taught in Japanese karate or in tae kwon do.0 -
quote:Originally posted by sav99
I figured that you would be along Elk. You mean Chuck actually won a fight by submission?
Jackson's last submission win was in 2003 and Lidells' was in 1999
Question on this one is will Rampage get that take down or will he have too much respect for Liddel's striking to shoot in for it? Not to mention Chuck defends against the take down pretty well. Tito tried repeatedly to get him down and only sort of succeeded once.
That was Chuck's only victory by sub, a rear naked choke.
Tito lost that fight because he tried to stand with Chuck. Jackson's take downs are much different. He will punch until Chuck is against the fence then just pick him up and put him down. Tuff to sprawl and brawl against that. But every time they have that exchange Jackson is open to Chuck's overhand right. Going to be a great fight...but NOT the best fight on the card. (more on that later)0 -
The only thing that impresses me about the Iceman is that he keeps on winning. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by Dak To 68
The only thing that impresses me about the Iceman is that he keeps on winning.
+10 -
quote:Quinton "Rampage" Jackson
Yup!...Reckon that make ma a savage...0 -
I've only been watching UFC, Pride, etc. for about a year. I like one on one athletic competition, and these guys give it all. Some things I've been wondering about and maybe those here that know more can enlighten me. I know Liddel is more of a "striker" than a grappler, but excepting him the most successful seem to be wrestlers, Hughes for instance was a two time NCAA All American wrestler. What's the overall best in this UFC competition, a puncher or a wrestler? Could a top UFC fighter beat a top traditional boxer? A friend is a retired (second rate) professional light heavyweight boxer and he trains a couple of these (second rate) "Ultimate Fighters", he's 48 years old and these guys can't get in on him without getting knocked down, that's how superior his boxing skills are compared to theirs. Some things I've thought of. In professional boxing the gloves "weigh" from 8 ozs. to 12 ozs. and which weight and manufacturer(s) is used in any fight is agreed upon by the principals. How much do these open fingered UFC gloves weigh? Professional boxers regularly break opponents ribs, their own hands, and KOs by body punches are not uncommon, such is their punching power. I haven't heard of these types of injuries in UFC, so I wonder if they're using thicker gloves, or they just don't have the punching power of many pro boxers. I watch the best of the "strikers" including the Ice Man and though they may be outstanding grapplers, their boxing skills are woefully inadequate compared to a true boxer. The Ice Man wouldn't lay a glove on a top boxer, and would get hit as many times and as hard as the boxer liked. A pro boxer has vastly superior hand speed and boxing skills to any mixed martial arts fighter I've seen yet. I know that if a good UFC fighter gets his hands on a boxer it's over for the boxer, but given the boxers far superior boxing skills could the UFC fighter get his hands on the boxer without getting knocked down and eventually out? Professional boxers have a unique talent, like hitting Major League pitching, not all great athletes can do it. Just ask Ed Jones, or Mark Gastineau. I remember an interview with "Too Tall" after he quit the ring and went back to the Cowboys. He said he knew it wasn't his game when he got knocked out by his sparring partner.[:D]
Any opinions?0 -
I'll break this down for you as best as I can...
quote:Originally posted by Dak To 68
I've only been watching UFC, Pride, etc. for about a year. I like one on one athletic competition, and these guys give it all. Some things I've been wondering about and maybe those here that know more can enlighten me. I know Liddel is more of a "striker" than a grappler, but excepting him the most successful seem to be wrestlers, Hughes for instance was a two time NCAA All American wrestler. What's the overall best in this UFC competition, a puncher or a wrestler?
I think wrestlers have an advantage in UFC, but it truly is MMA (mixed martial arts) and the sport has evolved so much since 1992 that pure wrestlers and pure strikers are no longer very competitive. But that is what makes Chuck Liddell so fun to watch. His take down defense, unorthodox striking, and punch accuracy make him very dangerous.
quote:Originally posted by Dak To 68
Could a top UFC fighter beat a top traditional boxer? A friend is a retired (second rate) professional light heavyweight boxer and he trains a couple of these (second rate) "Ultimate Fighters", he's 48 years old and these guys can't get in on him without getting knocked down, that's how superior his boxing skills are compared to theirs.
No, at least not in a traditional boxing match. But I don't think a top boxer would be competitive with a top UFC fighter in a MMA match either. The sports are so different that comparisons, although tempting, are often baseless.
quote:Originally posted by Dak To 68
Some things I've thought of. In professional boxing the gloves "weigh" from 8 ozs. to 12 ozs. and which weight and manufacturer(s) is used in any fight is agreed upon by the principals. How much do these open fingered UFC gloves weigh?
6 oz. The light gloves are one of the reasons that comparisons between boxing and MMA don't work. The light gloves make the MMA guys look faster and more powerful but that is not the case. Boxers throw so many more punches in training and in competition that there is no way the MMA guys can develop the same skill/power/accuracy.
quote:Originally posted by Dak To 68
Professional boxers regularly break opponents ribs, their own hands, and KOs by body punches are not uncommon, such is their punching power. I haven't heard of these types of injuries in UFC, so I wonder if they're using thicker gloves, or they just don't have the punching power of many pro boxers.
The glove topic is covered but you make an interesting point. I think is goes back to punch count. A boxer will throw more punches in a single round than an MMA guy will throw in an entire fight. MMA guys also don't strike to the body very often which is due to the short fight format. There is just not enough time for the cumulative effect of body shots to become effective. With that said broken fingers and hands are fairly common.
quote:Originally posted by Dak To 68
I watch the best of the "strikers" including the Ice Man and though they may be outstanding grapplers, their boxing skills are woefully inadequate compared to a true boxer. The Ice Man wouldn't lay a glove on a top boxer, and would get hit as many times and as hard as the boxer liked. A pro boxer has vastly superior hand speed and boxing skills to any mixed martial arts fighter I've seen yet. I know that if a good UFC fighter gets his hands on a boxer it's over for the boxer, but given the boxers far superior boxing skills could the UFC fighter get his hands on the boxer without getting knocked down and eventually out? Professional boxers have a unique talent, like hitting Major League pitching, not all great athletes can do it. Just ask Ed Jones, or Mark Gastineau. I remember an interview with "Too Tall" after he quit the ring and went back to the Cowboys. He said he knew it wasn't his game when he got knocked out by his sparring partner.[:D]
Any opinions?
If it is in an MMA fight then not only yes but hell yes for one reason and one reason alone, leg kicks. Yes some of the MMA guys would get knocked out but that is where I would put my money.
I was a huge boxing fan but promoters have killed the sweet science. MMA and the UFC is fun to watch but a totally different animal.0 -
Elkoholic,agreed with your last post,I to don't think a boxer of any caliber close to the same weight class as ufc or pride could take the kicks let alone the ground and pound or the submissions, He would be tapping out in 25-30 sec[:D],even heavyweights,it is a totally different type of event,sport, i don't know about that,but the training,mind set etc.far excedes what a boxer goes thru,how many boxers continue on with a broken arm[;)],did any one see WCL last night? Miami vs Newyork, Santiago [women, lightweight, is one rough and tough lady]and she's hot too, she could take most of the rowdy brawlers i've seen around toe to toe[;)][:D] Loko,OH YEA Lidell in 1st round![;)] 0 -
I used to watch it, but they changed the rules alot. I liked the early fights where it was up to the fighter when he wanted to stop the fight, or his corner.
I liked watching Tank Abbot. He always made me laugh since he was fat and a bar room brawler pretty much and he ate most of those "skilled" martial artists for lunch then laughed about it.0 -
Could a top UFC fighter beat a top traditional boxer? A friend is a retired (second rate) professional light heavyweight boxer and he trains a couple of these (second rate) "Ultimate Fighters", he's 48 years old and these guys can't get in on him without getting knocked down, that's how superior his boxing skills are compared to theirs.
No, at least not in a traditional boxing match. But I don't think a top boxer would be competitive with a top UFC fighter in a MMA match either. The sports are so different that comparisons, although tempting, are often baseless."
Comarisons are tempting, and valuable. This gets back to the question I always asked, as a martial arts practitioner: Which style is best?
It turned out that Brazilian jiu jitsu was best.
If a boxer could clean up in UFC, he would do so. There are plenty of medium grade American boxers who would love to come out as UFC champion.
A boxer who got into the ring in the UFC would have to make a quick knockout. If he didn't make the knockout in the first thirty seconds, he would be grabbed by the UFC guy and taken to the mat. Boxers have NO training in grappling. The boxer would soon be slapping the mat as he was choked out.
I would love to have seen a match between Muhammad Ali, in his prime, vs Hoyce Gracie in his prime. Gracie was about 165 pounds. I bet Gracie would have won.0 -
quote:Originally posted by allen griggs
I like the UFC.
I took eighteen months of Japanese karate. Our instructor hated the high kicks of the Korean styles, and told us that Japanese was always superior.
Then, I took six months of Hapkido, and tae kwon do, Korean styles. There I was taught that Japanese was no good, and the Korean would always win.
So I always wondered which style was superior. I eagerly watched the first UFC fights, back in the nineties. I saw jiu jitsu win, and realized that a good fighter had to be a good grappler. No grappling was taught in Japanese karate or in tae kwon do.
AAHHH the 90's back when gracie was king,And Iron mike had them KOed before the pizza even got there.Those were the days0 -
In my experience the only guys that like UFC are guys who love to fight and guys who were always to scared to fight and never been in one, which one are you? 0 -
That was Chuck's only victory by sub, a rear naked choke.
I have no idea what the hell this is about, but I'm pretty sure my wife's hairdresser would know.0 -
Elkoholic,
Thanks for the input. I'm still a big fan of pro boxing. The heavyweight division is a soap opera, but man there's a lot of really good fighters out there now in the other divisions. The reason I don't know if the MMA fighter can whoop a pro boxer is that I'm not sure the MMA fighter would be able to get his hands on the boxer, even boxers not known for it have incredible footwork, they're very elusive targets, it's one of the main skills they focus on in training. A powerful puncher doesn't have to wait for the cumulative effect of his punches to weaken his opponent, one good punch, and it's lights out, even with the right body shot. It won't happen, but I'd like to see Matt Hughes vs. Roy Jones Jr., or Shannon Briggs vs Chuck Liddel.[8D] I'll be watching Saturday night.0 -
quote:Originally posted by nunn
It speaks poorly of our civilization that such a thing has enough of an audience to support it.
Whats wrong with man against man one on one?......some things in civilization will never change....having wrestled in grade school and high school...i'll have to say thats where the real men are....one on one....you get beat you cant go blaming team mate bubba joe for droping the ball or ect ect....bubba joe beats you one on one...he had a better day than you did[;)] guess each to their own.[:D]0 -
Won't be able to watch it but I think that The Ice Man will win by KO. The way he trains and the fact that it can only take one punch will make him a winner. Loved my Illini homeboy Hughes but, he caught that one punch. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by HeavyBarrel
In my experience the only guys that like UFC are guys who love to fight and guys who were always to scared to fight and never been in one, which one are you?
Doesn't just about everybody fit into one of those categories? At least most guys between 18 and 40. Sounds like a target market to me.
Me I fit into both. I love to fight but was always afraid to do it on the street.0 -
quote:Originally posted by allen griggs
Comarisons are tempting, and valuable. This gets back to the question I always asked, as a martial arts practitioner: Which style is best?
It turned out that Brazilian jiu jitsu was best.
If a boxer could clean up in UFC, he would do so. There are plenty of medium grade American boxers who would love to come out as UFC champion.
A boxer who got into the ring in the UFC would have to make a quick knockout. If he didn't make the knockout in the first thirty seconds, he would be grabbed by the UFC guy and taken to the mat. Boxers have NO training in grappling. The boxer would soon be slapping the mat as he was choked out.
I would love to have seen a match between Muhammad Ali, in his prime, vs Hoyce Gracie in his prime. Gracie was about 165 pounds. I bet Gracie would have won.
The Royce Gracie of the 1990s could have taken almost any man on the planet. No doubt BJJ was and in many ways still is the dominant practice. Boxers, wrestlers, and kick boxers who want to compete in MMA must still start with BJJ. Even if they don't use it they better know how to defend it.0 -
Rampage by spectacular KTFO round one or two(may it be punches or one of his signature SLAMS). Chuck ain't fought anyone as bad as Rampage in quite a while. Rampage Jackson will be the new champion watch and see.[;)] 0
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