The Bible and history---question
First of all, I'm a Christian. Read parts of the Bible; but, not through and through. Got a question that's always puzzled me.
We know, from discoveries, etc., that dinosaurs and all sorts of creatures roamed the earth millions of years ago.
Now, what was God doing all this time?
We know, from discoveries, etc., that dinosaurs and all sorts of creatures roamed the earth millions of years ago.
Now, what was God doing all this time?
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Making plans! 0 -
dont you know man walked with the dinosaurs. and Noah had them on the arc as well. and humans are the reason dinosaurs went extinct[:D][:D][:D][:D] or atleast that what creationist think
just to clarify i am a christian who believes in the big bang theory0 -
do a search for Kent Hoveland. he did a series called "the CREATION seminars". he is a scientist and former teacher who taught evolution for years but things didn't add up for him. so he did some searching and found God and it explained the missing pieces to him. very enlightening series. 0 -
he was 'moving over the face of the earth.' 0 -
gods time.. one day is as a thousand years and a thousand years as one day 0 -
Carbon dating:
Latest dinosaur discovered so far: 75,000,000 years ago.
Earliest hominid discovered so far: 1,200,000 years ago.
...I'll gladly amend the above as soon as [legitimate discovery] closes the gap just a teensy little bit more. Best, Joe0 -
If I had a nickel for every time this discussion came up. Beneteau, just remember that God did indeed create the earth. I don't believe in the science that interprets millions of years. If you look at the different dating methods for yourself you will see a problem with those methods coming up with millions. 0 -
More on carbon dating:
The carbon decay constant (carbon dating principle) is what's used by the Bureau Of Standards in the atomic clocks at Ft. Collins Colorado. Yes, there's an inherent inaccuracy there. The inaccuacy is figured in as phenomenally small nano-seconds per thousand years.
Appropriate adjustments are constantly inputed. If left without correction, a one second adjust would be necessary approximately 30,000 years from now.
....again, Best, Joe0 -
"Now, what was God doing all this time?"
Overseeing the universe, and preparing to answer the challenge presented by Lucifer when He fomented a (heavenly) palace rebellion and tried to usurp God.
Taking both in order, God is the supreme power over the entire universe. Kids used to ask me (while teaching them in planetariums and classrooms), "Do you believe in life in outer space?"
The answer of course, is YES! First of all, we know there are many thousands, perhaps millions of angels and other heavenly inhabitants. Where do they dwell? What do they do? Where do they go? Well, with some, we know they come to earth, as Gabriel did when announcing the impending births of both John the Baptist and Jesus. God and angels inhabit the universe, including the earth (and perhaps, other dimensions).
What do angels do? They are God's administrators in this huge universe. They enforce God's dictates, laws and wishes (just as Gabriel was sent to Zacharias and Mary, as noted above). So, what about lifeforms other than angels? If this earth is an example, a little hint, a small demostration illustrating the much greater reality, then the fact this little bitty planet has anywhere (the guess differs) from 3 to 10 million different life forms tells us the universe as a whole must be absolutely chock-full, over-ridden with life.
Earth's distinguishing feature is life, and life's 'do it at any cost' drive for continued existence. I have every confidence the universe is much the same, only trillions and trillions of times bigger, greater, and more.
So God has about all any supreme power can do to oversee this incredible universe,wouldn't you say?
And the job is desirable enough, that at least one, Satan/Lucifer, wanted to take the job from Him. So Lucifer did sufficient rabble-rousing to raise up a host consisting of about one third of the angels, and set about to depose God. The one third of the angel thing is found in Revelation 12:4a-b, "And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth:"
Lucifer's rebellion, Isaiah 14:12-15, "How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!'
'For thou has said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:'
'I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.'
'Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit."
At the very least, and even though the outcome is assured (where Satan is defeated utterly), this little contretemp presented God with a huge public relations problem throughout the universe. God cannot, God must not, God will not, be challenged. So God's answer?
You and me....God replied to Satan's revolt with Genesis 1:1, "In the beginning God created heaven and the earth". He peopled the earth, and set in motion His eternal purpose, which is found in Christ, "According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord." Ephesians 3:11.
So how is that going for Him? God is bringing about His purpose, which is, "....to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:'
'To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers IN HEAVENLY PLACES might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God." Ephesians 3:9-10
So here, in this little backwater of the universe, God is preparing a people who will replace Satan and the angels, a people who will then be God's administrators throughout the universe. When the fulness of time has come, when the Body of Christ is full made, you can bet all the powers and principalities in heaven will know the supreme power and majesty of God. *Heaven won't be sitting around eating chocolate cake, drinking lemonade and listening to harp music. It will be going throughout the universe, representing God in administering God's constitution and laws.
Some people ignore and refuse to believe what the scriptures plainly state. Others choose beliefs and ideas more suited to their own use or desires. While a few ("For many are called, but few are chosen." Matt 22:14) take their place in the Kingdom of God, and perform their predestinated tasks, playing the roles God has ordained they should play, in His eternal purpose.
And finally, Between Genesis 1:1, and Genesis 1:2, a great, vast amount of what we call 'time' passed. God dwells in eternity. Time began with Genesis 1:1. In order to create something, you must pre-exist that creation. God dwells in eternity. We live in time (which ends with the events of Revelation (Rev 10:6d, "....that there should be time no longer"), but we die into eternity. Our deaths are but a door out of time, and into eternity.
That ought to give you enough to chew on a while.
Sahagan0 -
Saha, why does god let so many little children be born just to starve to death? This is a loving god? What would a pissed off evil god do to them? Tom 0 -
Hey Tom;
It may sound hard, but sometimes, those starving and dying kids are truly the lucky ones. While they've lost their physical lives, they've saved their spirits, which of all things is most important. Here's the way the Bible puts death, "Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it." Ecclesiastes 12:7
So what does that mean? That means the dead die unto rest. Have you ever returned from an exhausting, lengthy, tiring and debilitating trip, only to fall into your soft bed, into sweet rest and repose, there to sleep 'like the dead'? You may awaken and not even know what day, or what time of day it is, for your sleep was without dream, without measuring time, just a knowing nothing, a complete recuperation from tiredness and weariness. (You can also use being put to sleep for surgery, or being in a coma, as an example of being
asleep, knowing nothing, not even the passage of time until you're awakened.)
That my friend is what death is. Your life is a tiring, long and exhausting trip. When your spirit returns to God, it returns to rest, no consciousness of passing time, no guilt, no memory. And of the two, which is luckier, the living? or the dead? for it is said, "For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not anything...." Ecc 9:5
While at first glance that sounds odd, maybe even bad, we must remember that for many thousands of years, people have been dying, and their spirits have returned unto God who gave them. And in that return, that rest which may last thousands of years, there is no care, no consciousness, no communication, just timeless rest. When we are re-awakened at the resurrection, it will be as if absolutely no time has passed. We'll awaken as fully aware as if we'd never died.
But while we sleep, we'll know nothing, for, "The dead praise not the Lord, neither any that go down into silence". Psalms 115:17 (which negates the Catholic idea that Mary, and the saints who are dead, can intercede with Jesus on our behalf).
"For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?" Psalms 6:5 Not only is there no remembrance of us (who do you remember from 10,000 years ago? in 500 years, who will remember you?), there is no remembrance in us, until resurrection.
So, try to wrap your mind around the fact that dying is a good thing. And kids, who haven't reached the 'age of accountability', which is not actually a biblical term, but a biblical concept nonetheless, with "For I was alive without the law once (that's where kids are), but when the commandment came (we mature enough to know right from wrong), sin revived, and I died (that is, no longer a kid, and now knowing right from wrong,I am now held accountable for my actions, and if I don't accept Jesus' death in sacrifice for my sins, I die an eternal death of hell). Romans 7:9. Those kids will face judgment with nothing against their records. Let me quote that critical scripture without my parenthetic insertions, "For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died". Romans 7:9
So that's why the apostle Paul could say, "For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain." Phil 1:21, and, "Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord....We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord." 2 Cor 5:6,8
Dying is a sure thing, and a blessed state (for the saved), while living remains an unsure thing of jeopardy, "And why stand we in jeopardy every hour?" 1 Cor 15:30
Everyone dies. And everyone faces what comes next, "And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment, So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many, and unto them that look for him, shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation." Hebrews 9:27-28.
At the resurrection, Jesus will return, bringing with Him the spirits of all those people who've died while trusting in Him, "For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him", 1 Thess. 4:14.
The folks who are saved will be resurrected unto judgment and eternal life with God. And those kids, who didn't hear the Word, or weren't able to find a role in God's purpose (think kids who've never heard the gospel), but who had no sin....will be as well.
The folks who did not know God, will also be resurrected to judgment and eternal life....just their eternal life won't be so happy.
I apologize for going so long, but things like this cannot be summarized and still carry the element of truth that's needed. Also, I don't have the final word on all, or even any, of this stuff. What I do have is faith, and what I'm trying to do is simply show you what the scripture says....those who disagree should also offer scripture for their positions as well.
Sahagan0 -
GOD who? 0 -
quote:Originally posted by Dakota308
dont you know man walked with the dinosaurs. and Noah had them on the arc as well. and humans are the reason dinosaurs went extinct[:D][:D][:D][:D] or atleast that what creationist think
just to clarify i am a christian who believes in the big bang theory
I have a hard time with one that claims the name of Christ yet doesn't believe in the Bible.
Genesis 1:1
How does the big bang theory fit in with that? I'm not judging or wanting an argument, I'm just trying to understand why you believe the way you apparently do.0 -
This is a logical question. I don't like when people who ask logical questions are told "Don't ask those questions!". I don't proclaim to have all the answers either, but here are a few hypotheses:
1. The fundamentalist answer is that all the "evidence" of dinosaurs is just plain wrong, or that science is misinterpreting it, and the world was created EXACTLY as described in the Bible, word for word.
2. The aetheist answer is that the Bible is all a fairy tale and the science speaks for itself.
3. The middle-of-the-road answer is that the "Biblical" version of a day doesn't always equal 24 hours, as tomahawk suggested.
4. The spiritual answer is that the words and details of the Bible don't always make sense, but it is the MEANING of it that is important. FAITH and TRUTH are two separate things. For some the TRUTH is what gives them FAITH, for others their FAITH is what guides them to TRUTH. It is up to you to decide what is the TRUTH and where you place your FAITH.0 -
WoundedWolf: excellent post. Statement #4 says it all. It allows statements #1 thru #3 to remain valid.
Again, excellent post. Best, Joe0 -
He was fishing. (sorry you guys are a bit serious in here for this time of night) 0 -
quote:Originally posted by tccox
Saha, why does god let so many little children be born just to starve to death? This is a loving god? What would a pissed off evil god do to them? Tom
The parents are the ones that let these children starve, not God. God isn't a nanny.0 -
quote:Originally posted by tomahawk
gods time.. one day is as a thousand years and a thousand years as one day
Exactly.
And for those who think "evolution" or "Darwinism" are mutually exclusive from God and Christianity, I propose that God created these as well. Who are we to say that He didn't incorporate these things into His plan for us?[:)]0 -
I came to believe in God and dinosaurs one night in the movie theater when Raquel came on the screen....[:p][:p]
How could you not believe? I saw them!! [:)][:)]
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I've made some notes, based on what the Bible says.
Note 1: God is God (assumption).
2: God (through men) wrote the Bible (II Timothy 3)
3: God wrote what he wanted to write in the Bible (assumption).
4: God created everything, spoke words, evening and morning, etc.(Genesis 1).
personal observation: when something dies, it doesn't just turn into a fossil. It has to be preserved in some way (pressure from a lot of mud and water-maybe from a flood like in Genesis 7-8 or so) or it will just turn into dirt.
A single instance forms layers like we see in the earth, not millions of years. Take a jar and fill it with some mud and sand and water. Shake it up. it will produce "millions of years" worth of layers in about 10 minutes.
Everything has to have a designer/builder. Name one useful object (car, piece of furniture, pencil, that happened by chance...
...still waiting...0 -
So let's see if I got this right.
There's a really big invisible man who lives in the sky. And one day he was just kicking back totally bored when he had a flash of inspiration "I'll create a universe"
Makes perfect sense to me [;)]0 -
God reveals himself to us. Some hundreds and thousands of years ago, he revealed himself with the story of creation. Our minds could grasp that then, as 'the truth.'
Starting with the Renaissance, he started to reveal more to us through modern-day 'prophets' called scientists. He realized that man could comprehend more and more, as we grew as a race. Now we are in no need of a mystical creation story; we can understand the science of how things actually happened. Science, be it evolution or plate tectonics are God's engines, the way he built it all to work. Accepting the story of creation as written in the Bible is like operating on outdated software- surely you don't think that God doesn't reveal himself to us anymore? And if he DOES- then that just points towards the most recent knowledge being the closest to the truth. Who knows, in another thousand years we may have another level of understanding.0 -
There are other places than this one... and... A Great and Holy Spirit that is everywhere and in all things. 0 -
simply put, if you dont want to believe GOD created us all, consider the alternative.
i'll take GOD any day.
i dont mind people that dont believe in God. it just means there will be more room for me in heaven. thanks for your acreage![;)]0 -
All nothing more than a guessing game. How can anyone claim to know what this GOD thing was doing? If I claimed god told me something, you all would think I was nuts.[;)] 0 -
quote:one day is as a thousand years and a thousand years as one day
Yeah, I have been that stoned a couple of times too.[:p]
quote:It has to be preserved in some way (pressure from a lot of mud and water-maybe from a flood like in Genesis 7-8 or so) or it will just turn into dirt.
Actually the mechanics of fossilization are well understood and they occur in water when minerals carried in the water replace the calcium in bones (and sometimes soft tissue).0 -
Dream on. I had surgery a few months ago. Minor, but complicated enough they had to put me under. When that preliminary sodium pentathol hit me, it was just blackness. No dreams, no remembrance of the time I was under, I thought I had just blinked my eyes, asked the nurse when they were going to do the procedure, she said it's over, they've been working on you for an hour and a half. That's how it will be when you expire. Except it's permanent. Like the spirit in Mark Twain's book, The Mysterious Stranger, said when the boys said, "We'll see you in the next world", he replied as if puzzled, "You don't understand, this is all there is." 0 -
quote:That's how it will be when you expire. Except it's permanent.
So you have died before and have that to compare it with?
I've experienced both, and I can tell you, there is no comparison. Before that I had pretty much given up on God as a "fairy tale" too, but God hadn't given up on me.
Show me anyone who has had an after death experience, and you won't find an atheist among them.0 -
quote:Originally posted by john carr
Dream on. I had surgery a few months ago. Minor, but complicated enough they had to put me under. When that preliminary sodium pentathol hit me, it was just blackness. No dreams, no remembrance of the time I was under, I thought I had just blinked my eyes, asked the nurse when they were going to do the procedure, she said it's over, they've been working on you for an hour and a half. That's how it will be when you expire. Except it's permanent. Like the spirit in Mark Twain's book, The Mysterious Stranger, said when the boys said, "We'll see you in the next world", he replied as if puzzled, "You don't understand, this is all there is."
Mark Twain was clever, but not a moral authority. The Bible mentions eternal fire and anguish, not an absence of consciousness.0 -
quote:Originally posted by cce1302
quote:Originally posted by john carr
Dream on. I had surgery a few months ago. Minor, but complicated enough they had to put me under. When that preliminary sodium pentathol hit me, it was just blackness. No dreams, no remembrance of the time I was under, I thought I had just blinked my eyes, asked the nurse when they were going to do the procedure, she said it's over, they've been working on you for an hour and a half. That's how it will be when you expire. Except it's permanent. Like the spirit in Mark Twain's book, The Mysterious Stranger, said when the boys said, "We'll see you in the next world", he replied as if puzzled, "You don't understand, this is all there is."
Mark Twain was clever, but not a moral authority. The Bible mentions eternal fire and anguish, not an absence of consciousness.
It's very sad and disheartening to see people would rather believe Mark Twain and others in the entertainment business (both past and present) rather than the Bible. Funny how one man's work of fiction is held as "the truth" rather than God's word of The Truth.0
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