People ignorant of CCW law change.question
I don't know if it is because I am a firearms instructor here in Ohio or because I am more concerned about our CCW laws than most but, We have a new CCW law that goes into effect in 8 more days and one major change is that it affects how you may carry in a motor vehicle. If you carry in accordance to the previous law after the 14th of March, You will most likely end up going to jail! I have been contacting students that went through my class to remind them about the change and it surprises me over the large amount of them that have no clue as to the change that is coming shortly. It is everyones individual important responsibility to keep themselves informed to the law and it buggs me the amount that get a CCW and not be concerned about it any more after that. Maybe this shows that Ohio is dropping the ball about getting the word out! I don't know what the reason is. My Question is: Do you keep yourself updated with this kind of thing or are you like the large amount of people that I have been running into and not seem to be informed? Is this common for people that worked so hard to get a CCW law passed and then forget about it? We have some very good changes coming to our law but if you have no clue, You can end up in hot water. What are your thoughts?
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It is very easy to search and find the changes if it is important to you. With your reply, you seem to be similar to the folks that I have been running into. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by knucklehead14
It is very easy to search and find the changes if it is important to you. With your reply, you seem to be similar to the folks that I have been running into.
No reason to be an ass about it.0 -
+1 rob. Some of us aren't Ohio residents, and many/most of us don't have Ohio CCW permits (if any CCW permit at all). However, we do like reading about asnine changes... so...
What are the changes in the law? What were the intended changes, and what is the reality of the changes?0 -
Well, I don't live in Ohio, and I don't have a CCW in any state, but my opinion of that or any law is: Why should I have to dig at all for any kind of law? They(lawmakers, gov't)changed it so it should be their duty to make sure the people know about it. Everybody likes to say ignorance is now excuse, but when a law is changed or a new one made I shouldn't have to go dig it out. It should be delivered to the public so they are aware. 0 -
Perhaps this is overly-simplistic on my part, but wouldn't Ohio send out a flyer or letter with the new regulation or changes clearly stated and defined to all of the concealed carry permit holders it currently has on file as a starting point? Same as with a renewal of a license or permit like Motor Vehicle Departments do? 0 -
The details of this law are not important to my point here.
Should individuals have the sole responsibility for knowing important changes in CCW law or should the state Do a beter job at getting the word out?0 -
quote:Originally posted by knucklehead14
The details of this law are not important to my point here.
Should individuals have the sole responsibility for knowing important changes in CCW law or should the state Do a beter job at getting the word out?
In theory, the burden should be on the State to publicly state the new law or changes to the old one, that is, in an ideal world. Since we don't live in an ideal world and since "ignorance is no excuse for the law", the burden will surely and inevitably fall upon the shoulders of the permit holders. May not be fair to most, but we know that there are those people who simply and very deliberately do not care about changes, updates, etc. and will try to fall back on that "ignorance" to get away with non-compliance if caught.
So, to answer your question and as unfair as it may appear, I think each permit holder has the moral and legal obligation to keep well-informed and stay abreast of the current regulations, changes, proposals, etc.
Just my 2 cents.0 -
While "ignorance of the law" is not legally concidered an excuse the reality is there is no way the average person can keep up with the laws.[V] Our legislators, attorneys and judges can't even do it and that is their full time job, so how can the public be expected to keep up 100%? I try to keep abreast of the things that are most likely to affect me but don't have time to wade through all the public notification documents that the government is required to publish. Unless someone makes an effert to get specific items highlighted by the media most changes or new laws go relatively unnoticed by the public. I'd be willing to bet you could ask most legislators about a law they voted for 6 months after they passed it and they probably couldn't even accurately summarize the content. 0 -
When I first brought up this topic, I felt that it was just laziness
for people to not keep up on things like this. After a little thought I feel like the state should have some burden to get people informed. There have been no mailings to Ohio CCW holders about this. At the same time I feel that something as important as this would be to people that they should be more self informed. Keeping updated through Ohio Attorney General website, NRA, Grassroot organizations etc.0 -
I dont know about other states but here in Florida the Florida Senate website keeps up on law changes daily. I was checking the glove compartment law here for a friend who was told wrong by the local constabulary and notice that the site is updated daily with changes to all Florida Statutes..
Dont rely on the different gun org.coms for updates. Many time they post a change and it is wrong.
I think it would be nearly impossible for them to get the word out to all the people even if they put it on the news.0 -
Also there falls upon any public entity the burden to publicize any law change. If they fail to establish that they have met that burden then there will be no convictions biased upon the the law change. And any judge will restrain any police agency from enforcing the law change until the judge is satisfied that the public has been adequate noticed.
Ask any defense attorney, the above is taken right out of their "how to defend..." book.0 -
Ohio - land of the "Concealed Carry in Plain Sight", and "Municipal Restrictions on State Law".
Summary of important changes to Ohio law this bill will make:
- Requires courts to award costs and reasonable attorney fees to any person, group, or entity that prevails in a challenge to an ordinance, rule, or regulation as being in conflict with Ohio law
- Raises the license fee to $55 and makes the license valid for five years (not retroactive to currently held licenses)
- Requires a person carrying a concealed firearm to keep their hands in plain sight during any stop for a "law enforcement purpose" and specifies a penalty of a first degree misdemeanor
- Raises the penalty for failure to inform an LEO you are carrying a concealed firearm from a fourth degree to a first degree misdemeanor, and requiring a suspension of the person's CHL
- Specifies that the penalty for grasping or attempting to grasp your firearm during a lw enforcement stop, without specific direction from an LEO, is a fifth degree felony
- Requires a CHL applicant to be legally living in the United States
- Allows for a CHL renewal period of 90 days prior to expiration and 30 days after expiration
- Requires sheriffs to accept applications at least 15 hours per week and to post those hours
- Requires sheriffs to accept applications for temporary emergency licenses during all regular business hours and without an appointment
- You are not permitted to exit your vehicle during a traffic stop unless instructed to by an LEO
- Removes the plain sight requirement for carrying in a motor vehicle, but still requires use of a holster
- A loaded firearm in a locked case does not need to be in plain sight, but an unlocked case must be in plain sight and have a lid, a cover, or a closing mechanism with a zipper, snap, or buckle, which lid, cover, or closing mechanism must be opened for a person to gain access to the handgun
- Violations of most provisions in a motor vehicle are now increased, many to felonies
- Statewide preemption of firearms law was enacted as follows:
The individual right to keep and bear arms, being a fundamental individual right that predates the United States Constitution and Ohio Constitution, and being a constitutionally protected right in every part of Ohio, the general assembly finds the need to provide uniform laws throughout the state regulating the ownership, possession, purchase, other acquisition, transport, storage, carrying, sale, or other transfer of firearms, their components, and their ammunition. Except as specifically provided by the United States Constitution, Ohio Constitution, state law, or federal law, a person, without further license, permission, restriction, delay, or process, may own, possess, purchase, sell, transfer, transport, store, or keep any firearm, part of a firearm, its components, and its ammunition.0 -
I live in Ohio and a good source of CCW changes in Ohio can be found at ofcc.net ....They are a great resource for this. I believe it's the responsibility of every CCW holder to keep themselves informed of law changes by going to the Attorney Generals website. Don't rely on your elected officials to do so.[}:)] 0 -
I stay informed about any CCP laws in Indiana by getting on IN.gov but I think that states should publicize any changes. How many parents out there check for any changes to booster/child seat laws for example? Indiana changed the booster/child seat laws a few years back and none of my colleages/friends/neihbors knew about the change. The same goes for any change/new law that is enacted. I know ignorance is no excuse but with all the changes going on you'd have to read up on all the laws on a regular basis to stay legal (and hire an attorney to translate). The internet does make it easier. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by rogue_rob
quote:Originally posted by knucklehead14
It is very easy to search and find the changes if it is important to you. With your reply, you seem to be similar to the folks that I have been running into.
No reason to be an ass about it.
+10 -
quote:Originally posted by MT357
Well, I don't live in Ohio, and I don't have a CCW in any state, but my opinion of that or any law is: Why should I have to dig at all for any kind of law? They(lawmakers, gov't)changed it so it should be their duty to make sure the people know about it. Everybody likes to say ignorance is now excuse, but when a law is changed or a new one made I shouldn't have to go dig it out. It should be delivered to the public so they are aware.
I agree! Most of us are not lawyers and if you tap into the Oregon system and try to read the laws it is very confusing. I worked in Finance for 40 years and I have trouble trying to figure out the meaning of some of the changes that occur all the time. Add to that the arrangements with all the other states and it appears its a setup to toss your butt in jail.
Here in Oregon we have a website Oregonconcealedcarry.com that allows us to find out what is happening in the legislature and the meaning of the law. I am thankfull that the folks who run that site do this for all of us.
I understand that ignorance of the law is no excuse but do think that is a total copout to let the lawmakers and police off the hook. Changes should be published and send to folks that have permits.
I can assure you that any change in the driving laws will be published and sent out in spanish to inform our illegial alien drivers in this state. Why the double standard?
I do suggest to my friends that it is wise to take a refresher course once in a while to hone your skills and bring permit holders up to date on the current legal issues relating to permits.0 -
Posted from above:::
Requires a person carrying a concealed firearm to keep their hands in plain sight during any stop for a "law enforcement purpose" and specifies a penalty of a first degree misdemeanor
- Raises the penalty for failure to inform an LEO you are carrying a concealed firearm from a fourth degree to a first degree misdemeanor, and requiring a suspension of the person's CHL
- Specifies that the penalty for grasping or attempting to grasp your firearm during a lw enforcement stop, without specific direction from an LEO, is a fifth degree felony
This stuff bothers me, it almosts makes it too dangerous to carry a gun in the car in Ohio. If you encounter an officer that is anti-gun they have an easy test to bust you for not having your hands in the right place. This is total BS in my opinion. Criminals are not subject to the same rules??????
These rules are not reasonable in my opinion. In Oregon you are not required to tell the officer that you are armed. It is a good idea to do so since he will see your permit on your license as he runs the license. But you are not automatically a friggin criminal if you forget!!! Thats crap!
It is only common sense to keep your hands in plain sight when stopped by an officer to give them peace of mind. In Oregon They will ask if you are armed and you tell them the truth and let them know where the gun is located. It is up to them as to what they want to do from that point on.
People with carry permits are not criminals and should not be treated as criminals. If you get a license, have your picture taken, your prints recorded all your background checked and recorded, what idiot would think you would ever, ever pull a gun on an officer??
Laws like this are knee jerk liberal, fear of guns, reactions, in my opinion. That said I do understand if you want the right you have to compromise sometimes to get part of what you want.
(I wonder why the NRA is so highly critized for doing the very same thing, yet we accept it from our local officials)0 -
New York Politicans made it Soooo easy to follow their laws....
THEY JUST OUTLAWED EVERYTHING
Well..... maybe, except TAXES0 -
Just wondering, when you contacted them, did you ask how many were actually carrying? MANY that get their CCW, do not use it.
As to your question.
Government entities usually have a way for people to keep up on changes in the law. Be they CCW or traffic laws. But if it's not (IN THEIR FACE) on the 6 o'clock news, MOST people are not going to take the time to look up ANY changes in ANY laws. Even though they should.
APATHY RUNS RAMPANT.
A recent change in the traffic law here. When driving on a "divided" (2 lane, each way) highway, with a speed-limit of 65 or more, you MUST stay in the right lane unless you are passing another vehicle. Should the state mail out a notice of this change to the law, to everyone with a drivers license?
I was riding with my son, when we were pulled over by the state patrol for this. Neither of us had heard anything about this. He just gave us a warning, saying that there was an "amnesty?" period they were observing, and that after a certain date, they WOULD be ticketing people for this "new" violation.0 -
Yes pickenup I asked that and a few didn't get the ccw yet. This just made me wonder what most people think. Is responsibility the state or individuals. I myself think it is up to the individual. 0 -
quote: the reality is there is no way the average person can keep up with the laws. Our legislators, attorneys and judges can't even do it and that is their full time job, so how can the public be expected to keep up 100%?
Quoted for the truth. They change the laws so often it's rediculous. All the goverment does it complicate things for no good reason.0 -
This is supposed to be a Country that promotes individual rights and individual responsibility.
If you're too preoccupied to keep up with the regulations imposed on your rights, you're too preoccupied to even be AROUND firearms.
Knucklehead - you certainly live up to your handle.
Doug0 -
What's that supposed to mean wilson? I stated that I believe that it is the individuals responsibility. It seems that there are a lot of folks too lazy to keep up. If you don't understand the law, Ask an attorney. 0 -
Http://www.packing.org is another great resource for concealed carry laws by state 0 -
If ignorance of the law is no excuse then why are we wasting all that taxpayer money on speed limit signs?[8] 0 -
quote:Originally posted by Txs
If ignorance of the law is no excuse then why are we wasting all that taxpayer money on speed limit signs?[8]
Things that make you go Hmmmmmmm.0 -
quote:Originally posted by Doug Wilson
This is supposed to be a Country that promotes individual rights and individual responsibility.
If you're too preoccupied to keep up with the regulations imposed on your rights, you're too preoccupied to even be AROUND firearms.
Knucklehead - you certainly live up to your handle.
Doug
+10 -
Knucklehead - You asked us a question, and then we, who don't live in Ohoho - I live in Orygun - ask you to tell us the details of the law, you completely ignored our repeated questions, and had to get someone else to answer for you.
If we don't know the matter at issue, how the hell can you expect to get even a semi-intelligent answer.
I understand that that wasn't your original question, but it seems to me that we made it apparent that we wanted more detail from you, so that we could answer (at least, semi-)intelligently.
If you feel thar I was too rough on you, or reacted to you without understanding what you were talking about, I apologize.
To clarify: I APOLOGIZE, and I hope you understand the point I was trying to make.
Regards,
Doug0 -
knucklehead14...
a few years ago, i was evicted from my apartment for nonpayment (long story, not the time for it) and i had to go to court.
while there, the judge presiding over my case asked me about putting money into an escrow account in order to pay my back rent. i explained that i had no idea i had options. his response was, "son, i appreciate your honesty. you seem bright young man and have a level head on your shoulders, but you didn't procure a defense attorney, you did no research of your own to learn of options you may have to avoid this situation. you didn't read about the laws of this state or city and that is no excuse. ignorance of the law is no excuse. you must take the time to learn them so that you can avoid situations in the future."
so here was a judge saying to me that basically that if i make a rule, it's not my job to tell you about it. find out for yourself.
the ohio legislature passes the laws and publishes them accordingly. these publications can be found on line and at the library. people just need to stop being lazy like i was. personally, i do think they need to be more...announced...than they currently are so that people like me are not so "ignorant" of the laws.
just my 2 cents. i'm just glad that here in columbus after the 14th you don't have to have a permit to buy a gun anymore.0 -
Thank you!
D.0
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