I Hated Lawyers
And then I grew up.
I watched a criminal defense attorney, who knew up front that he was whipped, go into court and give his client the best defense he was entitled to under the Constitution. After several years of hating defense lawyers, I finally got it. This guy didn't have it in for me, wasn't trying to make me look foolish, didn't hate cops. He was just doing his job.
Later on, I had occasions to hire lawyers. Several, in fact. I hope I never need another lawyer, but checks I have written in a law office were some of the best money I ever spent.
Anyone who hates lawyers hasn't needed one yet.
I watched a criminal defense attorney, who knew up front that he was whipped, go into court and give his client the best defense he was entitled to under the Constitution. After several years of hating defense lawyers, I finally got it. This guy didn't have it in for me, wasn't trying to make me look foolish, didn't hate cops. He was just doing his job.
Later on, I had occasions to hire lawyers. Several, in fact. I hope I never need another lawyer, but checks I have written in a law office were some of the best money I ever spent.
Anyone who hates lawyers hasn't needed one yet.
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I've often said that everyone hates lawyers until they need one. 0 -
[:D][8D] 0 -
quote:Originally posted by nunn
And then I grew up.
I watched a criminal defense attorney, who knew up front that he was whipped, go into court and give his client the best defense he was entitled to under the Constitution. After several years of hating defense lawyers, I finally got it. This guy didn't have it in for me, wasn't trying to make me look foolish, didn't hate cops. He was just doing his job.
Later on, I had occasions to hire lawyers. Several, in fact. I hope I never need another lawyer, but checks I have written in a law office were some of the best money I ever spent.
Anyone who hates lawyers hasn't needed one yet.
terrible logic0 -
Baby lawyers still charge exuberant fees for the services rendered.
I hope I never have to go to another law office in downtown Chicago again.0 -
quote:Originally posted by OJMayo
quote:Originally posted by nunn
And then I grew up.
I watched a criminal defense attorney, who knew up front that he was whipped, go into court and give his client the best defense he was entitled to under the Constitution. After several years of hating defense lawyers, I finally got it. This guy didn't have it in for me, wasn't trying to make me look foolish, didn't hate cops. He was just doing his job.
Later on, I had occasions to hire lawyers. Several, in fact. I hope I never need another lawyer, but checks I have written in a law office were some of the best money I ever spent.
Anyone who hates lawyers hasn't needed one yet.
terrible logic
Said the feller who hasn't needed one yet.0 -
I understand what you are saying and have had to use several myself over the years. Not for any criminal activity but for divorces, RE deals etc.
My problem with the field of lawyers it the fact they don't police themselves properly. The excesses in the area of Tort Suits are distroying this country. They need to cap BS lawsuits and refuse to do so.
Then add to that the fact that almost all lawmakers are lawyers and they too refuse to police themselves properly. They create confusion by pumping all laws with legalease to the point when nobody can understand them and require you to hire a lawyer to accomplish even the simplist of tasks.
Add to that the activist political lawyers that the top legal schools are pumping out by the thousands and you can see why people have a general distaste for the legal profession.
Lawyers see the Bill of Rights and the Constitution as a challange! They create ways to work around those documents and then proclaim that their creation is the "Law of the Land" its now "Case Law". they claim it superceeds the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. Thats arrogance to the max!
Lawyers are supposed to protect our founding documents and apply them to cases flowing through the court system. Instead they have turned the court system into a playstation game where the legal team with the most funding wins.
Look at the disclaimers printed on gun barrels and all other products today. Even on the TV screen in many commercials. All required to protect themselves from preaditory practices of lawyers.
So defend them if you will but I think they have made a bed that is becomming difficult to lie in.0 -
Illinois Nazis.
I hate Illinois Nazis.
Haven't grownup that much yet.0 -
What you said, Sig
I have needed and used lawyers.
In my life, I have found one ethical and hard working(for the money he was paid) lawyer.
The legal profession is loaded with about 80 percent parasites. If we could get rid of the politicians that are lawyers, and the 80 percent referred to above, we might have a chance at a decent country.
Every ill that our Great Nation has, can be traced to attorneys.
Doug0 -
the problem with lawyers is they dont care what is right or wrong. they only care about winning. this is unethical and many times immoral. they lie. they slander. they misrepresent. they murder the truth and thats a sin. 0 -
I have to add that I don't hate lawyers. I don't hate anyone.
but you also must know as a long time police officer that lawyers as DA's and Prosecuting Attorneys are attacking our police all over this great land.
A good shooting is viewed through a political filter and police are chared with murder every day. Then if acquitted they are sued in a civil action. The suits should not even be put on the court docket.
I read Combat Handguns often and each issue has several cases where the author is pulled in as an expert whitness. I am stunned with the BS tactics used against the police and others when they use force to defend themselves and others against criminals that are violent and have records as long as your arm.
Police are sued for using hollowpoint bullets, sued for not using hollowpoint bullets, sued if their gun is called a "Cobra" or a "Rapitor," accused of cocking their guns, sued for not shooting the gun out of a criminals hand, etc. Its an endless barage of wild baseless attempts to put police in jail or sue the city to gain money. Lawyers are making the decision to take these cases and dream of the big fat fees collected if they win. Its lottery time with criminals, their families, and lawyers.
The legal system should require reimbursement of legal fees if a BS lawsuit is brought and they lose. That would slow down the number of crap lawsuits that flood our courts and cost taxpayers billions per year. But what lawyer would ever vote to cut his fees??????
Just my humble opinion! Many lawyers are honest and have Common Sense, but its a profession that is out of control and our legal system is broken and needs to be reformed.0 -
oh yeah....lawyers have cost this country millions of jobs. also, they have cost this country lots of lost freedoms. 0 -
...mayonnaise aka tweedlelumdum aka albertlum quote: they only care about winning.
...duh! that, is a very good thing, especially if you are innocient...2nd place only makes you the first looser...[;)]
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A few things:
1. My father is a lawyer. He's retired now, sort of (they never really retire). He is a tax and estate planning lawyer.
2. I was an insurance adjuster for 15 years. I dealt with lawyers daily.
3. I am an arbitration judge (I only hear insurance cases). My decisions are binding.
I say that so you know my experience with attorneys and my biases. Now, on to the show:
Lawyers have a job to do. Their job is to provide their clients the best opportunities and protections that the law allows. That's their job description.
For 15 years, I dealt with ambulance chasers. These lawyers are the scum of the earth. They will lie, cheat and steal if it suits their purposes. They will file frivolous lawsuits against people in an effort to make a buck and hope for a settlement. I found most of these ambulance chasers to be lazy wusses, too. If they had to file suit and thought they'd see the inside of the courtroom, they'd normally tell their clients that they didn't have a case. Why? Because if they go to trial, they spend too much time on one case where they can spend the same amount of time on multiple cases that will settle quickly.
I can tell you true horror stories about dealings with attorneys. The ones who start out by telling their clients that they can get them big bucks by suing the insurance company for bad faith when there hasn't even been initial contact made. You open up a letter and the attorney is already making his case to sue you for what you've not yet done. Subsequent letters get nastier and nastier, with a lot of false accusations made, always a CC: to their client so that the client can see what a swell guy their lawyer is and what a hardass thief the adjuster is.
I've been called some of the very worst names you can think of -- in writing. It is designed to instigate the adjuster into a response, preferably equally nasty, so that the attorney can then sue the adjuster for acting unprofessionally. Yet, report the attorney to the state bar's grievance counsel (which I have done many, many times) and the investigations always turn up nothing inappropriate was done. Why? Because the lawyers are policing themselves.
When I hear arbitration cases, I can always tell when an attorney is involved. 95% of the time, attorneys are not part of the process. Each insurance company just uses an experienced claim representative to make the case and base it upon facts. Without looking at a name, I read the pleadings and can instantly tell if it is an attorney or not. Why? Because attorneys start with the smoke and mirrors right out of the box. Most of the time, if an insurance company has to hire an attorney to file arbitration, it is because they've got a pi$$-poor case and their in-house counsel needs to do something to justify the paycheck.
There are definitely times when it is smart to have a lawyer around. If you're in any sort of criminal legal proceedings, it is smart to have a lawyer. It you're engaged in a family dispute such as child custody or a divorce, it is smart to have a lawyer. Hell, it is smart to have a lawyer when you go to purchase a house (because if you think your real estate agent is looking out for your best interests, you're insane). However, there are plenty of instances where having a lawyer is a waste of time and your money.
One of the big problems is that there are too many lawyers. Because of this glut, they need to create work to do in order to bring in a paycheck.
Schiesters tend to be the ones that advertise on TV. I always asked my father why he or his firm never advertised, and he always responded that good lawyers will never have to advertise, because they always have more legitimate work than they can handle. If you're not involved in criminal law, your field of smaller clients will continually provide you work -- either stuff that they need done themselves or through referrals to others.0 -
two lawyer cases I've run into lately:
first: claimant gets in small traffic accident with friend. Lawyers call claimant trying to persuade to sue for bodily injury that did not exist--only temporary soreness. Lawyer attempts to explain that his friend has insurance coverage, so they'll really be sueing the insurance company.
second: Lawyers involved in mediating a worker's compensation loss for the state. Insurance company comes to agreement with claimant. Lawyers get involved, and say that it is not a fair agreement, and will not allow the claim to be processed through the State until they pay the claimant another $50,000.
btw: I don't hate lawyers at all. they are necessary in our society, but some put money above morality. Also, they really wreak havok in my great state of illinois.
Ben0 -
I recall that many years ago the Attorney General of Alabama had the perfect solution to the lawyer problem. Too bad he didn't succeed.
His idea was to declare that all persons licensed to practice law would be declared to be members of the Judicial Branch of government.
Under the seperation of powers doctrine they would not be able to serve in any other branch of government.0 -
quote:Originally posted by gruntled
I recall that many years ago the Attorney General of Alabama had the perfect solution to the lawyer problem. Too bad he didn't succeed.
His idea was to declare that all persons licensed to practice law would be declared to be members of the Judicial Branch of government.
Under the seperation of powers doctrine they would not be able to serve in any other branch of government.
that deserves its own thread.
Ben0 -
Spaniel -
That was a brilliant discussion. I hope everyone on the board reads it.
Thank you,
Doug0 -
quote:Originally posted by Doug Wilson
Spaniel -
That was a brilliant discussion. I hope everyone on the board reads it.
Thank you,
Doug
It was good pros.0 -
did anyone read about the lawsuits that have been filed relating to the airplane crash and death of the yankees pitcher in new york ? HAHA, kill them all !! 0 -
quote:Originally posted by fishermanben
quote:Originally posted by gruntled
I recall that many years ago the Attorney General of Alabama had the perfect solution to the lawyer problem. Too bad he didn't succeed.
His idea was to declare that all persons licensed to practice law would be declared to be members of the Judicial Branch of government.
Under the seperation of powers doctrine they would not be able to serve in any other branch of government.
that deserves its own thread.
Ben
I do like that idea.0 -
quote:Originally posted by Doug Wilson
Spaniel -
That was a brilliant discussion. I hope everyone on the board reads it.
Thank you,
Doug
You're welcome.0 -
I also agree with what Spaniels said,........good post.
We need tort reform, and far fewer "ambulance chasers".
Also I agree that there are far too many, and they find ways to drum up work.
If the above were done, we would see the legal profession start to thin out.
If you are not needed for legitamate purposes,..........time to find another job. Just part of cold, cruel, reality,.......not everyone that passes a bar exam, is entitled to become a millionaire, simply because of their degree![;)]0 -
quote:Originally posted by nunn
Anyone who hates lawyers hasn't needed one yet.
And those who have needed a lawyer, and hired one will still hate lawyer as nobody really wins in civil litigation-rarely does a client get all that they ask for.
Some people think that all lawyers are scum-sucking pond troll, and are the reason for all the silly, ultra-high damage awards, but please keep in mind, behind each lawyer is a client---blame them---they are often the greedy money-grubbing scat catchers.
Then there is Family Law (Divorce and parentage). Family Law is prolly the worse part of a lawyer's job. We can't call it "divorce" because it has such an evil intonation, nor can we call it "child custody." We have to refer to divorce as a dissolution, and child custody is now called "parenting plan," but all divorces end with animosity and broken dreams and it is the kids who get hurt most---I hate divorce lawyers.0 -
Lawyers are needed just as cops are...I get torqued at some of them too, who wouldn't? The creep who destroyed the lives of two border control agents for instance. He didn't have to do that, he did it to boost his own career..On the other hand, lawyers have pulled a lot of our chips out of the fire. Besides, my daughter is a lawyer.[:D][:D] 0 -
quote:Originally posted by spanielsells
A few things:
1. My father is a lawyer. He's retired now, sort of (they never really retire). He is a tax and estate planning lawyer.
2. I was an insurance adjuster for 15 years. I dealt with lawyers daily.
3. I am an arbitration judge (I only hear insurance cases). My decisions are binding.
I say that so you know my experience with attorneys and my biases. Now, on to the show:
Lawyers have a job to do. Their job is to provide their clients the best opportunities and protections that the law allows. That's their job description.
For 15 years, I dealt with ambulance chasers. These lawyers are the scum of the earth. They will lie, cheat and steal if it suits their purposes. They will file frivolous lawsuits against people in an effort to make a buck and hope for a settlement. I found most of these ambulance chasers to be lazy wusses, too. If they had to file suit and thought they'd see the inside of the courtroom, they'd normally tell their clients that they didn't have a case. Why? Because if they go to trial, they spend too much time on one case where they can spend the same amount of time on multiple cases that will settle quickly.
I can tell you true horror stories about dealings with attorneys. The ones who start out by telling their clients that they can get them big bucks by suing the insurance company for bad faith when there hasn't even been initial contact made. You open up a letter and the attorney is already making his case to sue you for what you've not yet done. Subsequent letters get nastier and nastier, with a lot of false accusations made, always a CC: to their client so that the client can see what a swell guy their lawyer is and what a hardass thief the adjuster is.
I've been called some of the very worst names you can think of -- in writing. It is designed to instigate the adjuster into a response, preferably equally nasty, so that the attorney can then sue the adjuster for acting unprofessionally. Yet, report the attorney to the state bar's grievance counsel (which I have done many, many times) and the investigations always turn up nothing inappropriate was done. Why? Because the lawyers are policing themselves.
When I hear arbitration cases, I can always tell when an attorney is involved. 95% of the time, attorneys are not part of the process. Each insurance company just uses an experienced claim representative to make the case and base it upon facts. Without looking at a name, I read the pleadings and can instantly tell if it is an attorney or not. Why? Because attorneys start with the smoke and mirrors right out of the box. Most of the time, if an insurance company has to hire an attorney to file arbitration, it is because they've got a pi$$-poor case and their in-house counsel needs to do something to justify the paycheck.
There are definitely times when it is smart to have a lawyer around. If you're in any sort of criminal legal proceedings, it is smart to have a lawyer. It you're engaged in a family dispute such as child custody or a divorce, it is smart to have a lawyer. Hell, it is smart to have a lawyer when you go to purchase a house (because if you think your real estate agent is looking out for your best interests, you're insane). However, there are plenty of instances where having a lawyer is a waste of time and your money.
One of the big problems is that there are too many lawyers. Because of this glut, they need to create work to do in order to bring in a paycheck.
Schiesters tend to be the ones that advertise on TV. I always asked my father why he or his firm never advertised, and he always responded that good lawyers will never have to advertise, because they always have more legitimate work than they can handle. If you're not involved in criminal law, your field of smaller clients will continually provide you work -- either stuff that they need done themselves or through referrals to others.
Good Post!! A nice summary! [^]0 -
OK "Nunn" chime in and give us your experience as a long time Police Officer!!!
I want to hear what you really think based on life experience!0 -
"I Hated Lawyers"
Seriously....could you really hate a face like this? I think not![:o)][^]0 -
quote: Then add to that the fact that almost all lawmakers are lawyers
That is a big problem in my opinion.0 -
The big problem, that will kill us all some day.
Lawyers, "interpret" simple written terms, and can make them come out pretty much how they wish.0 -
Every attorney I called asked leading questions to determine the feasability of taking on my case. (Happened this week to me). After finding out what amount of money I'm being sued for, all, without exception, hung up the telephone. It's all about the almighty $$$$$$$
The above posting is not an opinion. Been there, done that. Joe0
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