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More Entering Army With Criminal Records

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49 comments

  • jwb267
    i think it is a good idea to let the jail birds serve. but if they get out of line they should be brought before a firing squad.they should be told this before they inlist
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  • HandgunHTR52
    What I would like to see with that article is the statistics of how many young men have crimial record now a-days. I have no idea, but my perception is that more and more kids are commiting crime these days.
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  • dcon12
    quote:Originally posted by HandgunHTR52
    What I would like to see with that article is the statistics of how many young men have crimial record now a-days. I have no idea, but my perception is that more and more kids are commiting crime these days.


    Well, there are a lot more laws. Perspective is everything. Don
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  • Kodiakk
    quote:Originally posted by HandgunHTR52
    What I would like to see with that article is the statistics of how many young men have crimial record now a-days. I have no idea, but my perception is that more and more kids are commiting crime these days.


    Or getting charged with crap that they wouldn't get charged with back years ago. You know how much crap you can get into with hardly any effort in school now days? It's rediculous.

    My grandpa had commited a felony and had a choice of going to prison or going into the Marines during WW2. He was one of the people that took Iwo Jima.
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  • mateomasfeo
    I've helped many a fine young criminal find his way to basic. I can't think of a single one that did not take advantage of the opportunity and turn themselves around.
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  • 11BravoCrunchie
    They should just reinstate the draft that way the people who don't have criminal records get to serve too.
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  • dcon12
    quote:Originally posted by mateomasfeo


    I've helped many a fine young criminal find his way to basic. I can't think of a single one that did not take advantage of the opportunity and turn themselves around.




    You have a knack for making criminals. Don
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  • Jake_S-83
    quote:Zulu7 Posted - 07/13/2007 : 9:38:05 PM
    They should just reinstate the draft that way the people who don't have criminal records get to serve too.

    Conscripts don't make good soldiers. The last guy I want on my team is someone who doesn't want to be there.
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  • 1911a1-fan
    today almost everyone is a criminal in one way or another, those kids just got caught

    every year new laws are introduced to make law abiding citizens criminals
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  • ElMuertoMonkey
    There wouldn't be this sort of defense for criminals if the headline had read, "More Criminals Joining the Democratic Party."

    Some folks just worship the military a bit too much, I think.
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  • dcon12
    quote:Originally posted by ElMuertoMonkey
    There wouldn't be this sort of defense for criminals if the headline had read, "More Criminals Joining the Democratic Party."

    Some folks just worship the military a bit too much, I think.


    The Military is a necessary evil, much as you are to GB. Don
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  • Kodiakk
    quote:Originally posted by ElMuertoMonkey
    There wouldn't be this sort of defense for criminals if the headline had read, "More Criminals Joining the Democratic Party."

    Some folks just worship the military a bit too much, I think.


    I don't see anyone defending criminals, but if we aren't going to deal with them for good shouldn't they have a oppurtunity to turn their life around? With the structure the military gives that is a perfect place for someone to get their life squared away don't you think?
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  • ElMuertoMonkey
    quote:Originally posted by dcon12
    quote:Originally posted by ElMuertoMonkey
    There wouldn't be this sort of defense for criminals if the headline had read, "More Criminals Joining the Democratic Party."

    Some folks just worship the military a bit too much, I think.


    The Military is a necessary evil, much as you are to GB. Don
    Dcon,

    The Military is a necessity - there's nothing evil about it.

    But criminals? We NEVER need criminals. Anyone who says otherwise is an apologist and quite possibly a hypocrite.
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  • Ba Sardo
    quote:today almost everyone is a criminal in one way or another, those kids just got caught

    every year new laws are introduced to make law abiding citizens criminals

    Yup, laws make criminals. Because free will and a lack of morals has nothing to do with that equation.

    Sort of like how guns kill people, right?
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  • ElMuertoMonkey
    Kodiakk,

    On the contrary, I see a lot of folks defending criminals here. "They passed more laws, so more people are becoming criminals."

    Yeah, poor baby criminal scumbags.

    You listening you degenerate, criminal retards? Put on a uniform and all sins are forgiven!

    Commit a crime in uniform - it'll be the liberal media's fault for reporting it!

    Commit a crime after you're out - it's society's fault for being anti-military! Woo-hoo!

    Some folks here have gotta be some weird brand of Catholic - they believe in sainthood before you die...
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  • William81
    Twenty odd years ago when I first started my career, it was a viable
    option to aim wayward young men and women to the military. It has come around and once again I have seen many of our clients go through the process and enlist in the military.

    I think it is a win-win situation. The individuals I have seen enlist were not dangerous or drug addicts, just young people that
    needed the lifestyle the military offers.

    I have known many that went away selfish babies and came home men
    and women with purpose and discipline.
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  • ElMuertoMonkey
    William81,

    I don't think we're talking about waivers for spitting on the sidewalk here...
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  • Ba Sardo
    quote:But other Defense Department officials maintain that the rise in criminal waivers is also a direct result of the Army's struggle to meet recruiting targets.

    "There is terrific pressure put on the recruiters," said Alan Gropman , a professor at the Pentagon's National Defense University. "They have to meet their mission so they request more waivers. In order to make the numbers they have to lower the standards."


    They aren't trying to give more kids a chance and there aren't more kids trying to turn their lives around - they are CUTTING CORNERS to fill their quotas. These waivers are for FELONIES. The very people we would shoot if we found them in our homes, we are putting into the military.

    In the long-term this is gonna bite us all in the butt and probably in the form of multiple black eyes that these felons will give the uniform when they invariably revert to form and go hog wild on some civvies, either here or in Iraq.

    Don't come crying and screaming to me when people "don't respect soldiers" anymore.
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  • HandgunHTR52
    EMM - My original comment was to try to point out that there is a definate liberal slant to that article.

    When I read it this is what it said to me: "The Military is so hard up because of this war that they are letting criminals in. Therefore, not only are we screwing up the war, now we are going to screw up the military!"

    The military has had the "Moral Wavier" as long as I remember. I was just wondering if the ratio of waiver/non-waiver individuals is the same as civilians with/with-out records.
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  • William81
    EMM, neither am I...the individuals I have supplied information on were "criminals" with records that exceeded the acceptable guidelines for enlistment in the military.

    There is a fairly long process to get them cleared.

    I have no doubt that some klinkers are making it though the enlistment process that are NOT military material. But I believe this is the exception, not the rule.
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  • HandgunHTR52
    Just another quick point.

    Crimials in jails have more rights and amenities than any submarine sailor out there. [:D]
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  • Colt Super
    I had the choice of jail or the Army with respect to a stolen car I was riding in(yatta yatta didn't do it yatta yatta).

    Took the Army as RA and it worked out for me.

    Doug
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  • ElMuertoMonkey
    Handgun,

    And a liberal perspective is not always bad or even necessarily wrong. As Ba Sardo stated, these are people we would shoot if they came into our home uninvited - we now expect them to uphold and defend the Constitution of the United States? Sorry, but it's a little like asking the fox to watch the henhouse, in my opinion.


    William81,

    No, the rule as it is right now is that more people are being waived on through. Percentage-wise and numbers-wise, that means more people with some sort of impulse control and/or moral issue are being let in.

    There's the "bad kid" that turns his or her life around and I am all for redemption - but for crying out loud, the hypocrisy rife within these forums is astounding!

    We talk on a daily basis about shooting and/or killing criminals as not only a basic right as free men and women, but also almost as a moral obligation to society as a whole.

    But they put on a uniform and suddenly they're Jesus Christ Superstar? How many times have people said politicians, black nationalists/racists, and other unsavory types don't change? That "a tiger doesn't change its stripes nor a leopard its spots"?

    I hate to tell people, but relying on the military for everything leads to a military dictatorship. The military was meant for two things: kill people and break stuff, all in the name of national defense.

    Yet somehow people think that a laying on of military hands will build countries, save the economy, restore happiness, and turn every criminal around, like they were a bunch of miracle-working social workers and civil engineers.

    They break things and kill people. And if it's all the same to you, I'd much rather have the people doing the breaking and killing NOT have any sort of felonies on their record. Call me crazy if you must, but that's my opinion.
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  • William81
    In a perfect world I agree with what you are saying EMM. But, currently to meet quotas they are watering down the regs. I have said my piece to the military officials I come in contact with. I am honest about the individual's history (signed release from the client)and have pointed out things that I believe should disqualify the individual.

    Anyway, I just try to do my job to the best of my ability.
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  • Kodiakk
    quote: On the contrary, I see a lot of folks defending criminals here. "They passed more laws, so more people are becoming criminals."


    It's true! If you even get into a fist fight at school you get charged with a crime now. I'd bet my last dollar you have broken the law and didn't even know of it since there are so many damn laws. There are some people like myself that made a stupid decision and gotten nailed for something. Then there are the rapists, murderers, burgarlers, ect the habitual criminals you get the idea.

    I guess I'm a piece of trash since I've gotten convicted of a crime when I was 18 years old right and haven't broken the law to my knowledge since right?
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  • HandgunHTR52
    EMM - I am not disagreeing. I just wanted to find out what the ratios were. Until then I can't be comfortable stating that they are letting more criminals in than before.
    I will however state that in my time as an instructor for the Navy it did seem that the standards were slipping a little. There was definately a shift in the disciplinary actions taken. When I was a student if you got caught underage drinking you were kicked out of the program and sent to the fleet a rank lower and half of your paycheck lighter for a couple of months. I had to take some of my students to Captian's Mast for underage drinking and all they got was 1/2 their months pay for a month and 30 days extra duty. No reduction in rank and still in the program. It would take about 3 offenses to get kicked out of the program and more than that to get kicked out of the Navy. Only drugs, major felonies, blatant fraternization or homosexuality were automatic outs.
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  • Ba Sardo
    quote:Originally posted by Kodiakk
    I guess I'm a piece of trash since I've gotten convicted of a crime when I was 18 years old right and haven't broken the law to my knowledge since right?


    Out of curiosity, did you know you were breaking the law at the time?

    I've never broken the law, but I guess that makes me a geek or a nerd or whatever it is the cool kids are calling straight and narrow noawadays... (not that that's what you're calling me, mind you)
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  • ElMuertoMonkey
    Kodiakk,

    Like I said earlier, we are not talking about kids spitting on the sidewalk, smoking behind the gym, or papering someone's house and getting nabbed for it.

    These waivers are, in a great many cases, FOR FELONIES.

    Home invasion - armed robbery - felony aggravated assault.

    Punching someone in the face does not equal a bad man.

    Crushing in someone's skull with repeated blows from a baseball bat during the course of a robbery? THAT equals a bad man.

    I don't get the folks around here sometimes - they supposedly dislike criminals and arm themselves, in part, to defend themselves from criminals, yet get hard at the thought of these very same scumbags donning a uniform.

    To paraphrase R. Lee Ermey from "Full Metal Jacket", I can see a lot of folks saying, "Oh I like you. You may be a criminal, but you've got a uniform. You can come home and f*** my sister."

    Am I the only one who thinks that is a bad idea and borderline offensive and injurious to the image of the armed forces?
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  • Kodiakk
    quote:Originally posted by Ba Sardo
    quote:Originally posted by Kodiakk
    I guess I'm a piece of trash since I've gotten convicted of a crime when I was 18 years old right and haven't broken the law to my knowledge since right?


    Out of curiosity, did you know you were breaking the law at the time?

    I've never broken the law, but I guess that makes me a geek or a nerd or whatever it is the cool kids are calling straight and narrow noawadays... (not that that's what you're calling me, mind you)


    That time no I did not. I was 18 and my ex-roommate called me up telling me I owed them money after I had paid all bills for 2 months before I wised up and moved out. After I moved out I came back to Oregon because my father came down with brain cancer. They called me in Oregon while they were in Alaska asking for money.

    Next thing I know a cop is trying to serve a warrant on me in Oregon, I wasn't at the house at the time. I went down to the police station to turn myself in and find out what the hell the warrant was for and the officer told me I had threatened someone over the phone. Well I called Alaska and we had telephonic court. I told them I didn't threaten anyone and besides I lived in Oregon. They pushed the case anyways.

    My lawyer told me I needed to fly up there to fight it. I told him there wasn't any evidence because I didn't do it. He said it didn't matter that I would have to come there to fight it anyways. I told him I didn't have any money to fly up to Alaska, so he told me I would have to plea bargain it out. I had no choice but to plea bargain it out and got a year probation and a disorderly conduct charge. Don't you love bored police departments.

    Oh ya, 6 months later the person got charged and convicted of attempted murder. To bad they had the chance to drag my name through the mud first huh?
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  • HandgunHTR52
    quote:Originally posted by FEENIX

    "Army officials say the majority of such recruits committed relatively minor offenses and have not been in prison."



    EMM - For the most part we are talking about somebody who "punched someone else in the face" and got charge with assault and/or battery, underage drinking, possession of a controlled substance, theft, shoplifting, vandalism (tagging mostly), and trespassing (these were the most common ones that I saw). Most of the time, if you do jail time, you wont get a waiver.
    I will admit I am speaking from previous experience as I have not been in for about 6-1/2 years.
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