Hydrogen car??? WHY
Yesterday at the gym, I was reading an article in the local news paper i think it was the Rocky mountain time??
it had the same heading as this but went more into detail as far as the number are conserded.
Honda unveils hydrogen fuel cell sedan
WASHINGTON, May 11 (UPI) -- Honda has announced it will lease some hydrogen fuel cell sedans in the United States next year.
The company unveiled a prototype of the car in Washington, USA Today reported. Honda also said it plans to sell a mass-market hybrid sedan next year that will cost less than the Civic hybrid now on the market for $25,000.
Hydrogen fuel cell cars run on electricity generated in a fuel-cell stack in the vehicle. Honda has leased about 20 fuel-cell cars in the United States, most of them operated by state and local government agencies.
"We started with fleets, added a few consumers," said Steve Ellis, in charge of marketing the vehicles for Honda. "Now we're going to swing the pendulum. Clearly the consumer focus is where we need to put more attention."
The company is working on making hydrogen more available. There are now only a handful of hydrogen fueling stations across the country.
And it said
that the car would cost $26,000 for the basic model it would get 38 mpg. the fuel would cost 3-6 dollars a gallon OK now add the law of "supply and demand" into the cost of fuel. in 5 yrs if this is the direction we are heading in, what will fuel be then 12-14 bucks a gallon??? WHAT IS THE POINT OF THAT? why cant we make a car that is both friendly to the enviro, and our wallets?
it had the same heading as this but went more into detail as far as the number are conserded.
Honda unveils hydrogen fuel cell sedan
WASHINGTON, May 11 (UPI) -- Honda has announced it will lease some hydrogen fuel cell sedans in the United States next year.
The company unveiled a prototype of the car in Washington, USA Today reported. Honda also said it plans to sell a mass-market hybrid sedan next year that will cost less than the Civic hybrid now on the market for $25,000.
Hydrogen fuel cell cars run on electricity generated in a fuel-cell stack in the vehicle. Honda has leased about 20 fuel-cell cars in the United States, most of them operated by state and local government agencies.
"We started with fleets, added a few consumers," said Steve Ellis, in charge of marketing the vehicles for Honda. "Now we're going to swing the pendulum. Clearly the consumer focus is where we need to put more attention."
The company is working on making hydrogen more available. There are now only a handful of hydrogen fueling stations across the country.
And it said
that the car would cost $26,000 for the basic model it would get 38 mpg. the fuel would cost 3-6 dollars a gallon OK now add the law of "supply and demand" into the cost of fuel. in 5 yrs if this is the direction we are heading in, what will fuel be then 12-14 bucks a gallon??? WHAT IS THE POINT OF THAT? why cant we make a car that is both friendly to the enviro, and our wallets?
0
-
new technology is always expensive.
it will become more cost effective when more units are made , and drive the cost per unit down, as well as when the distrubution of hydrogen becomes more efficent
remember when dvd players sold for $200
not they are more like $300 -
Im buying stock in hydrogen refinerys. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by tsavo303
new technology is always expensive.
it will become more cost effective when more units are made , and drive the cost per unit down, as well as when the distrubution of hydrogen becomes more efficent
remember when dvd players sold for $200
not they are more like $30
Now the hard part will be keeping the oil companies from taking over the whole hydrogen process and jacking pricing.
by the way DVD players cost a heck of a lot more than $200 when they first came out. I paid $300 for my first one and that was a markdown from $500.0 -
quote:Originally posted by tsavo303
new technology is always expensive.
it will become more cost effective when more units are made , and drive the cost per unit down, as well as when the distrubution of hydrogen becomes more efficent
remember when dvd players sold for $200
not they are more like $30
[V]ya i remeber, now that i have one it doesnt work for fooey because of Blue ray& HD DVD and those players are like 300-600
I think NEW technology sucks, there is nessesary technology and then there is technologly just for the sake of techonlogy. just when we all have one of these POS's they will come out with something else that "is better" [:(]
IM MOVING TO Bhutan.[V]0 -
haha that is an American culure problem not a technology one. we always have tp have something better or newer. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by cartod
Im buying stock in hydrogen refinerys.
[:D][:D][:D][:D]
Hell.. better yet, Let's sell stock in hydrogen refinerys....0 -
Note that these are not hydrogen powered cars, but hydrogen FUEL CELL powered. There is a huge difference, and the public is being sold a bill-of-goods about the economy of these fuel cell cars.
The cheapest and most effective way to create power in a car is with a gasoline engine. They are selling these fuel cell and hybred cars to get the buyer and government (us) to fund the R&D for future technologies, which by the way, will not be fuel cell.
Ask yourself where are these economical, non-polluting wonders in the entire REST OF THE WORLD ?? We Americans are once again financing the solutions to global problems.
A lot of this stems from the political agendas of the liberal, global warming myth generating liberals.
To answer your question "WHY" - there is no rational reason for the development of hydrogen fuel cell cars. There is good reason to develop gaseous hydrogen internal combustion engines and infrastructure.
They are scamming the entire country. That would be us ignorant consumers, you know.
Doug0 -
They are electric engines powered by a fuel cell that gets its power from hydrogen. So in essence, they are an electric car. Performance is pretty good, hydrogen can be created for free once capitol costs are invested.
I don't have an issue with the R&D that civilized nations are funding for this technology. It is voluntary. Does anyone expect any new technology to come out of the middle east? Well, accept maybe a more powerful explosive belt.0 -
Slipgate - True, if by "civilized nations" you mean the United States of America, alone.
Doug0 -
I believe GM had a bunch of electric cars in CA a few years back. The oil companies bought out the leases and wouldn't let people renew them. The cars sit in AZ somewhere. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by Aspen79se
I believe GM had a bunch of electric cars in CA a few years back. The oil companies bought out the leases and wouldn't let people renew them. The cars sit in AZ somewhere.
Not even close on this one Aspen.[:)]0 -
GM loaned them to government agencies and a few private citizens as a test for the concept, much like Chrysler did for the turbine cars in the early 60s. When the test was complete, GM took the cars back -not oil companies.
Doug0 -
They were put out on a 3 year lease, the company determined that they would never be a viable economic product, and refused to sell the cars outright or to renew the leases. They recalled the cars, put them through an 18 inch crush, and stored them in AZ.
The car was the EV1 and there are many articles about the process, including one from the Smithsonian, but the oil companies had nothing to do with it at all.0 -
I know that all the Auto manufacturers are developing vehicles powered by hydrogen fuel cell engines, though they're still early in the R&D process. I've heard the main stumbling block is a cost effective method to produce the hydrogen. I don't know what the outcome will be, I hear conflicting stories, but if it's a cleaner, more efficient source of power why not? 0 -
It isn't.
Doug0 -
quote:Originally posted by dlrjj
They were put out on a 3 year lease, the company determined that they would never be a viable economic product, and refused to sell the cars outright or to renew the leases. They recalled the cars, put them through an 18 inch crush, and stored them in AZ.
The car was the EV1 and there are many articles about the process, including one from the Smithsonian, but the oil companies had nothing to do with it at all.
Well, I was halfway there.
I believe the cars would've been an economical success, had GM continued the project. Honda has the foresight and ability to pull this car concept off. GM, Ford, etc are simply going to follow Honda and Toyota like they've done since the 70's.0 -
GM spent over $1 billion on the program, leased them out on a subsidized basis, but couldn't see where they could ever make the thing profitable, so they pulled the plug.
They refused to sell the cars to the lease owners for the simple reason that the laws relative to production meant that GM would have had to continue to supply parts for an extended number of years even if they discontinued production of the cars, and neither GM nor several of their suppliers were even making the parts anymore. Selling the things would have been an economic nightmare for them.[:)]0 -
BMW has been tinkering (actually the have working examples) of fuel cell powered automobiles but the technology is still in it's infancy. Fuel storage and delivery are still issues which have yet to be resolved and right now you need a car the size of a BMW 7-series or a MB S-class [^] in order to be a viable platform. Given enough time fuel cells it can be made to work, but I am betting that this is going to be a dead end and that FC technology will not advance beyond the few prototypes already in service. 0 -
As long as the price of gasoline is reasonable and its still available it will be very difficult to pump too much R&D money into radical alternative vehicles. 0 -
There is a viable solution already researched, prototyped, patented and working towards production in roughly 12-16 months. The last time I posted it, I think here, most people scoffed at it and never read though it all. If ANYone wants to take the time, go to
hytechapps.com
and read and watch the videos. He starts off with a new type of torch equipment that he developed then goes on to developing it into a vehicle engine. Basically a new type of gas, from water, that develops more power than it take to generate, that can be used in a modified internal combustion engine. It does work, I went over and looked at it and am currently waiting for his engine modification "kit" to be released.... the 12 to 14 month part. Enjoy.0 -
So much information.
And none of it comes with a reference.
I figure it's an interesting thread but free of any reliable information content.
Post away! The information is free (and worth as much).0 -
quote:Originally posted by spurgemastur
So much information.
And none of it comes with a reference.
I figure it's an interesting thread but free of any reliable information content.
Post away! The information is free (and worth as much).
Here you go spurge.
http://americanhistory.si.edu/onthemove/collection/object_1303.html
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2005/gm_ev1.html
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/03/11/eveningnews/main543605.shtml
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_EV1
http://www.speedace.info/electric_cars.htm
http://www.evworld.com/article.cfm?storyid=622
I hope that's enough sources. If that's not enough, I have many more stored on my hard drive.0 -
The only real advantage to hydrogen fuel cell power seems to be it is clean. It still requires a fuel from which the hydrogen can be extracted. And while we all dream of the day we can fuel our vehicles with water (further adding to water shortages in many areas) I see that one as being a looonnnnggg way out IF even practical. 0 -
dakota,
Imagine the U.S.S. Kitty Hawk as a floating 'oil rig'......using it's nuclear reactors to take electricity....and turn water into Hydrogen and Oxygen. Cost to make.....nothing. The Reactor doesn't use oil.
Electrolysis. The warmer the water the more Hydrogen you'll make with less power. A nuclear plant could be an "oil well" to power us in the 21st Century.
There were over a thousand vehicles in Nazi Germany running on Hydrogen before WWII ended due to their fuel shortage. This ain't new technology. The first true Hydrogen powered car ran in 1807....from the same guy that invented the very first Internal Combustion Engine.....Fran?ois Isaac de Rivaz
Count Alessandro Giuseppe Antonio Anastasio Volta........made the battery....he's where 'volts' came from...discovered methane.....genious........made a Hydrogen firearm....in the 1780's.
As soon as someone rich figures out a way to make alot more money with Hydrogen....you'll be using it.
www.hfpeurope.org0 -
Of course there have been hydrogen powered cars in the past. There have also been turbine cars, coal fired, wood fired, several flavors of electric, alcohol burning, and a myriad of other types of propulsion systems tried.
They no longer are in general production for one very simple reason, they are not cost or convenience competitive with gas and diesel powered internal combustion engines.
When you can find something as convenient and relatively as cheap as those two fuel sources, then you will see a potential shift. Until then, it's all just noise and tinfoil hats.
If companies as desperate as GM, Ford, and Chrysler actually had a better propulsion system available, do you really think they wouldn't be producing and promoting it right now as desperate as those companies are at the current time?0 -
quote:Originally posted by Odawgp
Yesterday at the gym, I was reading an article in the local news paper i think it was the Rocky mountain time??
it had the same heading as this but went more into detail as far as the number are conserded.
Honda unveils hydrogen fuel cell sedan
WASHINGTON, May 11 (UPI) -- Honda has announced it will lease some hydrogen fuel cell sedans in the United States next year.
The company unveiled a prototype of the car in Washington, USA Today reported. Honda also said it plans to sell a mass-market hybrid sedan next year that will cost less than the Civic hybrid now on the market for $25,000.
Hydrogen fuel cell cars run on electricity generated in a fuel-cell stack in the vehicle. Honda has leased about 20 fuel-cell cars in the United States, most of them operated by state and local government agencies.
"We started with fleets, added a few consumers," said Steve Ellis, in charge of marketing the vehicles for Honda. "Now we're going to swing the pendulum. Clearly the consumer focus is where we need to put more attention."
The company is working on making hydrogen more available. There are now only a handful of hydrogen fueling stations across the country. Actually if they can get it to work it would go down not up. Hydrogen is one of the most abundent elements on Earth. Think about water H2O It would be more like the cost of a computer comparing today to the early days when they took up entire buildings and cost millions of dollars.
And it said
that the car would cost $26,000 for the basic model it would get 38 mpg. the fuel would cost 3-6 dollars a gallon OK now add the law of "supply and demand" into the cost of fuel. in 5 yrs if this is the direction we are heading in, what will fuel be then 12-14 bucks a gallon??? WHAT IS THE POINT OF THAT? why cant we make a car that is both friendly to the enviro, and our wallets?0 -
quote:Originally posted by dakotashooter2
The only real advantage to hydrogen fuel cell power seems to be it is clean. It still requires a fuel from which the hydrogen can be extracted. And while we all dream of the day we can fuel our vehicles with water (further adding to water shortages in many areas) I see that one as being a looonnnnggg way out IF even practical.
Hydrogen is extracted from water.0 -
quote:The Reactor doesn't use oil. True but power produced from reactors is still far from free. Even with reactors there is a "fuel" source.
quote:Hydrogen is extracted from water. Admittedly I did not word that correctly.I realize that, but the process to extract it generally requires some power/fuel.
Ethenol is made from corn so I guess if I just fill my tank with corn I can just drive away! Oh thats right it has to be processed to a usable form first(which takes fuel). The trick is to produce more fuel than you use to produce it.
According to our laws of science it still takes matter (fuel) to produce energy.0 -
Another reason Hydrogen wouldn't be a good choice as a fuel is up here in northern Minnesota when it is -30 below I think the cars wouldn't work in that cold of an environment, and if they did the water emissions would make our roads really icy. Just that alone would make that a bad choice up here. 0 -
Gaseous hydrogen is the ideal fuel.
Doug0
Please sign in to leave a comment.
Comments
44 comments