Fatal shootings at VA TECH more wounded
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You are correct. But if there isn't a sign posted on college property, carring concealed with a permit isn't breaking the law. Now carring one in an elementary, middle, or high school is definately against the law even if there is no sign. At least that is how we were taught in our CCW class. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by tr fox
Probably all of us here own and/or drive cars. If some crazy killer had just driven his car into a crowd leaving a professional sports event and killed hundreds, none of us here would feel any association or guilt to that heinous crime just because we own car.
But since the VA crime involved guns, sadly many of us here feel some kind of responsibility or at least some kind of association to the crime. Or at the least we feel that the crime somehow reflects badly on gun owners like us.
How sad. Sad that liberal society has brainwashed us to feel unjustified guilt.
I know of an airplane that killed thousands of people a few years back (9-11). It was our countries worst mass killing spree on record. The govt. only banned airplanes for a week. Maybe the govt. ought to ban all airplanes that carry over 10 gallons of fuel.0 -
quote:Originally posted by vess1:
If anybody could have been armed, prepared, and had the will to do something, most of these people could have been saved.
The key point, really. The same thing is true of Columbine. Why don't we just put up a big sign on our schools saying "Mayhem Welcome Zone" rather than "Gun Free Zone" ?? These are, after all, functionally equivalent. When I heard the first reports, my immediate reaction was to wonder if this was a repeat of 9-11, simply a different target / means of attack. Our schools are soooooo much more vulnerable than much of our infrastructure and the Islamists draw no distinction between killing children or armed men - all non-Muslims are a target.
quote:Originally posted by vess1:
People in America today are W-I-M-P-S! Big ones at that. It's what their wimpy parents teach them. It's what the wimpy news media teaches them. It's what their wimpy college professors teach them. They are sheep and this will have the same result EVERY TIME until we turn this thing around. People need to start caring about their sons, teaching them and making MEN out of them. Instead of letting the schools and the tv raise them.
Based on your phrasing, I have to disagree, but substitute "liberal" for "wimpy" and your statement becomes about 99% accurate. Granted those two terms are synonymous, but not all parents, teachers, professors or any other group - even dimoweenies - are liberal wimps.
quote:Originally posted by vess1:
And then we need to erase this fear of guns and start arming people. Guns are our freinds! The general public ARE the first responders, EVERY TIME. It's no secret. Somebody needs to be trained, armed, ready willing and able to do what needs to be done.
Armed citizens might not prevent such tragedies, but they certainly would reduce the casualties. Any sort of resistance helps. What we are seeing in today's society is in many ways a replay of 1928-39, particularly a pervasive unwillingness to recognize and confront evil, whether personally or socially and, very sadly, an embracing of the strategy followed by the Jews of Central Europe in that era - to hunker down and wait for things to get better. The results then were tragic for them and most of the world; the results of such inaction in the 21st Century will be equally tragic for us and the rest of the civilized world, whether it is a series of lone madmen attacking schools, etc. or entire societies dedicated to jihad conducting murderous mass attacks on non-Muslims.0 -
Well, it only took 15 minutes into the NBC special for someone to bring up Gun Control.
Plus, when they talk about the guns (a 9mm and a .22), they keep showing a Glock and a 1911.0 -
A note to the people discussing whether it's legal or not to carry a gun onto the Virginia Tech campus: whether it is a criminal act to do so or not, the college can always expel you for violating its policies, and I rest assured that one of its safety policies is no guns on campus. That's the way that William & Mary is and the way most college campuses are. So even if you can't get locked up, you can be expelled.
For what it's worth, packing.org has some info (I hope the link works; if not, go to State CCW information -> Virginia -> Places off limits while carrying)... the only university actually listed is VCU in Richmond, so it may be that it's not a crime to have a gun at Tech.
http://www.packing.org/state/virginia/#stateoff_limits0 -
quote:Originally posted by goldslammer
This is what I don't understand. I watched the video they've been showing, and you can hear 27 shots fired, while armed officers, wearing body armour are waiting/taking cover outside of the building.
You wonder how many lives could have been saved, if they had just rushed in and shot the guy.
That is just what they did at Columbine also. The school police officer fired a few shots and ran out, called for backup. Backup arrived and surrounded the building and waited for SWAT to arrive. While all this time was going by, the bad guys were still shooting kids inside. By the time the cops entered, the bad guys had killed themselves.0 -
According to the kids talking, the murderer just stood there shooting and then reloaded and started shooting again.
According to these kids, they were just trampling each other or trying to get out of the way. Nobody fought back! [V]0 -
I don't understand people.
First..... Why did they not fight back?
Second.... If you want to die, then just die. Why hurt even one other inocent person, and screw up someone else and thier families and friends?
"Die on your feet, or die on your knee's"?
I understand they were kids, but if it was me, I say rush the meanie and maybe save a few folks yourself included.
A very sad day for us all. My heart goes out to those involved, and the families.0 -
quote:Originally posted by jc_crazyhorse
I understand they were kids, but if it was me, I say rush the meanie and maybe save a few folks yourself included.
It isn't in their instinct. Their instincts tell them to panic. Panic, run and save themselves. Every person for themself. Nobody got together to try to come up with a quick plan to end it. Just pandamonium and chaos. Save yourself. Most of them probably had never even seen a gun in real life so it was all the more scary.
Believe me, I don't ever want to have to be a hero, but depending on the situation, I seriously don't think I could stand by and watch this happen. I would be too enraged.0 -
well said dano. well said. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by aramisvi
well said dano. well said.
Agree. Excellent post.0 -
sad..very sad...[V]
expect some changes!!0 -
quote:Originally posted by dano
Interesting comments so far. Some relevant, some not so much so.
In regards to people "not fighting back", that's very hard to address. Flight or fight syndrome comes into play.
For "most", flight is a more natural reflex, instinct or decision. It's easier for the brain to rationalize. Less time / thought process required.
For females, the choice to fight is very low on the list of options. And remember, we're talking about kids here, not adults. For young females and males, conflict resolution (of any kind) is not something they have a lot of experience with.
Shock incapacitates most. They go blank and freeze in place. They cannot comprehend what is occuring. Thus, they become victims.
It's very easy for all of us to sit here in front of our computers and play the "what if", or "I would have" game. There is a huge amount of suffering going on tonight, and it will continue for many years, for the families of those injured / killed.
There is no guarantee that a gun in the hand of a student would have changed the outcome. The perp always has the initial advantage. It takes training, experience, and courage, and a bit of timing / luck, to overcome that.
The sad thing is, this kind of situation will play over and over again, to some degree or another, in the future. We all know this from past experiences.
For me, and for now....I just mourn. [:(]
Good points except for the kids part. As you know, this was a university, so all these people are adults. Why do people call over-18 people kids in one situation, such as this. But they call over-18 people adults in other situations such as being able to join the military, or they should be able to carry a gun, or they should be able to drink? Over 18 can vote, remember? And over 18 are adults. I was in boot camp at 17 years 3 months old.0 -
I don't know if this has already been mentioned but when someone speaks out against guns in reference to this, we should all indicate that all of the 20,000+ existing guns laws did nothing to prevent this but one person with a gun COULD have.
Stand up and speak out!0 -
Matt La Porte, 20, of Dumont, New Jersey, was studying political science and French and was a member of the Corps of Cadets, the Virginia Tech Corps of Cadets band, the Highty-Tighties and the U.S. Air Force ROTC, according to his MySpace page.
"The Band gained a nickname while marching at the Richmond parade, honoring Field Marshall Ferdinand Foch of France in 1921. The drum major attempted a mace toss as he passed the reviewing stand. The wind blew the mace and it fell to ground, bouncing once. The drum major caught the mace off the bounce and still rendered a proper salute to the reviewing officer. Field Marshall Foch supposedly said 'hoity-toity' (show-off in French) in response to the drum major's display. For many years this was believed to be the origin of the band's name. However, history states that the name came from a cheer that was invented when the band was housed in Division E, the fifth stairwell of Lane Hall. While waiting for meals, each unit would give up a cheer. The bandsmen were tired of not having a name, and made up a cheer that went: "Highty Tighty, Christ Almighty, who the hell are we? Riff ramm, dirty, we're from Division E." It has since evolved over the years."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highty-Tighties
I think its iddish...0 -
Fox, reading your recent posts my respect for you grows. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by kyplumber
Fox, reading your recent posts my respect for you grows.
HEHEHEHE.......as it should, as it should[:o)]. Wait a minute. Were you talking about me or about Fox News?0 -
quote:Originally posted by dano
Interesting comments so far. Some relevant, some not so much so.
In regards to people "not fighting back", that's very hard to address. Flight or fight syndrome comes into play.
For "most", flight is a more natural reflex, instinct or decision. It's easier for the brain to rationalize. Less time / thought process required.
For females, the choice to fight is very low on the list of options. And remember, we're talking about kids here, not adults. For young females and males, conflict resolution (of any kind) is not something they have a lot of experience with.
Shock incapacitates most. They go blank and freeze in place. They cannot comprehend what is occuring. Thus, they become victims.
It's very easy for all of us to sit here in front of our computers and play the "what if", or "I would have" game. There is a huge amount of suffering going on tonight, and it will continue for many years, for the families of those injured / killed.
There is no guarantee that a gun in the hand of a student would have changed the outcome. The perp always has the initial advantage. It takes training, experience, and courage, and a bit of timing / luck, to overcome that.
The sad thing is, this kind of situation will play over and over again, to some degree or another, in the future. We all know this from past experiences.
For me, and for now....I just mourn. [:(]
DANO, good post, good thoughts0
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