Amputees & wounded
Just received my new DAV magazine an in it, it shows some pictures of young soldiers mostly without both legs. It really makes me sick to see this and wonder why. Here are young guys with wives and daughters that will never be the same again. How many more are going to be killed or wounded before this is over. Why doesn't the media publish pic's like this on tv or in the paper for the american people to see? My heart goes out to all these young soldiers and their families.
Disabled Veteran
Willi [:(]
Disabled Veteran
Willi [:(]
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Scars of War will go on long after you and I are gone. 0 -
It's too appauling to be seen on network evening news broadcasts, that's why.
And there' s not some sort of happy ending to finish with.
But in all fairness , I have seen some reports of the wounded receiving VA assistance and med treatment, also one guy learning how to use crutches and artifical legs to walk on the news before this post.0 -
Most of the bodies were not able to be reconized in the world Trade center and many were not found. I have friends, some gone now, that were badly wounded in Vietnam and what a great bunch of guys. Most accept their situation and are an inspiration to me. Don't know how I would cope, guess I got lucky and was not in the area of heavy combat. I go the the VA on occasions with the VFW to talk to them and try and make life a little better for them. I have also been to Walter Reed. You be the judge of what is worth fighting and dieing for ! 0 -
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/12/us/12trauma.html?pagewanted=1&_r=2&hp
www.salon.com/news/2007/03/11/fort_benning/?source=whitelist
The American Legion to the rescue.......
www.legion.org/?content=pr_press_release&id=433
They been around since 1919....why'd it take so long to get one of their 300 full time paid folks to do something?
Secretary of the Army was fired....Commander of Walter Reed Hospital....and now the Army Surgeon General:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070312/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/walter_reed
Kiley was the Commander of Walter Reed screwing over these Army wounded and recently was appointed to Surgeon General.....putzzz.
www.nytimes.com/2007/03/09/washington/09veterans.html?hp
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/03/04/AR2007030401394.html0 -
It is very tragic!
But on the same token, if you sit down and talk with most of those soldiers they agree with our being there and believe our cause to be just!
At least that holds true for those I have personally talked with.
And every soldier knows the risks of military service. And we are currently an ALL volenteer military.
And don't take my words as being harsh! Again I agree that it is tragic. But it is/was a risk that all of us that served in the military take to stand up for what we believe in!0 -
Read ObiWan's sites he posted. Now they are sending wounded soldiers back for the third time. Come on now, how many chances are these guys going to get? When I enlisted it was to serve and protect my country. Alot of guys died in Viet Nam. I was lucky, I didn't. Now these guys are fighting a bunch of nuts that could care less about life. I really don't see us wining this war. Its going to be just like Korea and Viet Nam. I was in the Philadelphia VA Hospital and the conditions there were terrible. Three of us filed complaints but never heard back if anything was ever done. That was 6 years ago.
I hope things are better there now with all the injuries from this war.0 -
quote:Originally posted by kabar
Read ObiWan's sites he posted. Now they are sending wounded soldiers back for the third time. Come on now, how many chances are these guys going to get? When I enlisted it was to serve and protect my country. Alot of guys died in Viet Nam. I was lucky, I didn't. Now these guys are fighting a bunch of nuts that could care less about life. I really don't see us wining this war. Its going to be just like Korea and Viet Nam. I was in the Philadelphia VA Hospital and the conditions there were terrible. Three of us filed complaints but never heard back if anything was ever done. That was 6 years ago.
I hope things are better there now with all the injuries from this war.
And again I will say: If you talk to these same soldiers that you are talking about (I have had the oppritunity to talk with a number of them) They fully believe in what we are doing over there!
These are soldiers that have lived it! They are not sitting here stateside and only seeing what the media wants us to see!
And I'm sure as hell going to listen to them before I'll believe what the media is putting out!0 -
""And we are currently an ALL volenteer military.""
40% of the US Armed Forces in Iraq right now.....are National Guard and Reserves.
In the Vietnam War only a handful made it to Vietnam soil. And another thing...since America's industry has been sent over seas many American's HAVE TO join the military to feed their family. It's no different than if they were drafted. Corporate America forced them to military service by removing their jobs.
One good thing came out of the Iraq War...a dang good thing. In Basic Training Air Force folk get issued firearms. They do your old job now gitrdone....Convoy.0 -
Hey git_r_done when you were in, I'm sure you were young and taught to believe everything the government told you. I know I did. These are young guys that have this drilled into their heads that our government is right. Wait till they get my age and see how much suffering they had to endure from their injuries. You see things different after years of experiencing all these things in life. I know when I enlisted, I was gunho about everything. At that time I would have taken on the world if I had to. I guess age makes us mello. I also lost a lot of good friends in Viet Nam. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by kabar
Just received my new DAV magazine an in it, it shows some pictures of young soldiers mostly without both legs. Why doesn't the media publish pic's like this or in the paper for the american people to see?
Willi [:(]
Dont those two sentences show that you are wrong ? I see things on the news everyday or wounded soldiers. One of the reasons though why it isnt that important to show them is because its basically irrelevant. Soldiers have been killed and wouded ever since the first war was fought. If that bothers you then go hide under a desk and pray that a magic angel comes down and provides your freedom and security for you.0 -
Look out kabar...
You'll end up with the "Our soldiers all love George Bush and they'll happily throw themselves on a grenade for His Vision, so support them or get out of the country, commie!" crowd showing up pretty soon...0 -
All the military folk I talk to say they are getting out. I work with the Navy, Army, Air Force, and US Marines.
They know if they stay in...they will have to pay for Tricare Standard...which is the worst HMO in the country. They know there is no benefit to staying in uniform.
Anyone that was in Afghanistan when it was turned over to the UN.....knows it was US troops that had to rush back in and retake the ground because the UN couldn't do anything.
Anyone that has been in Afghanistan knows how miserably the Provincial Recontruction Teams were. You see....Bush thinks that by sending in GS-12 civil servants they can "educate" the locals into creating their own little American style government. These fools would go into Afghani villages with absolutely no fire support.
Anyone in the know.....knows Bush is sending in PRT's into Iraq....and they are really going to get slaughtered. Iraqi's don't want American style govt. or someone trying to tell them they must do it.
Our troops know by us staying in Iraq we are ducks in a shooting gallery for all these Syrian, Iranian, Pakistani, and others trickling in to attack them. The war needs to explode outward from Iraq if we truly are going to win.
Either that or run up the US flag on an Iraqi flagpole and let the whooping really begin. None of this police action style warfare.0 -
It doesn't matter what you say, just go to the va hosp to see all these guys. Then feel sorry for all the wives and kids or perhaps you don't have feelings. Even with all the new devices they have for amputees, its still a struggle for them no matter what they tell you. I'm sorry but bush could care less about them or the guys that are over there fighting. Thats my feelings and no one will change that. I know how hard and how many years I fought for my disability after I got out. You would not believe all the veterans that gave up trying to get disability because of the hassel the government gives you. 0 -
One Son just got back from Afghanistan - second combat tour, first was in Iraq. One Son still in Afghanistan, and did a previous tour there. Each of those two were awarded the Bronze Star. One Son did three combat cruises on a carrier, lots of awards and commendations, and one Son did Panama, Grenada and Desert Storm as a Ranger and recieved a lot of decorations.
None of them are stupid, and none of them would change their commitments.
As far as the Reserve and Guard troops that are whining, they oughtta man up. Just because they thought they were getting a free ride through college doesn't mean they should not be held to their commitments. Those unwilling Service people make me sick.
I don't have a quick, bloodless solution for our War Against Terrorism. Maybe there isn't one. I don't think it would be good for us as a Nation to cut and run.
We need to care for our wounded as though they were all heroes.
With all sincerity, this was written by...
Doug Wilson I
* edited to correct incorrect statement. Second edit to correct spelling.0 -
I have never understood the whining of VOLUNTEER military members and their families when the VOLUNTEER member gets sent off to war. What do they thing they joined the military for? Just a job during peace time? You take the government's gold, you go where the government sends you, it is that simple. You don't want to go or don't want to risk being killed or maimed? Then don't join the all VOLUNTEER military. I do see where the drafted member of years gone by could complain, but not the VOLUNTEER members of today's military. And sorry, you do not get to pick and chose what war you will fight in either. Sure, Iraq is screwed up. Tough, you volunteered. What war have we ever fought that was not screwed up somewhere along the way? I spent 11 years in the Army total, was not in a war but was ready to go to anywhere they sent us if we had to fight the Soviets back then. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by ObiWan
""And we are currently an ALL volenteer military.""
40% of the US Armed Forces in Iraq right now.....are National Guard and Reserves.
Hey Obi - Last time I checked you had to volunteer for both of those as well.0 -
quote:Originally posted by kabar
I'm sure you were young and taught to believe everything the government told you.
I must have missed that class during basic, I don't believe anything the Staff and Tech Sargents tell me let alone the government. I think too much for an Airman First Class, too strong willed also.0 -
quote:Originally posted by ObiWan
[br Corporate America forced them to military service by removing their jobs.
yeah, i guess that explains the %4.3 unemployment rate0 -
quote:Originally posted by kabar
It doesn't matter what you say, just go to the va hosp to see all these guys. Then feel sorry for all the wives and kids or perhaps you don't have feelings. Even with all the new devices they have for amputees, its still a struggle for them no matter what they tell you. I'm sorry but bush could care less about them or the guys that are over there fighting. Thats my feelings and no one will change that. I know how hard and how many years I fought for my disability after I got out. You would not believe all the veterans that gave up trying to get disability because of the hassel the government gives you.
You obviously don't pay attention!
I have stated that yes it is tragic!
And yes I go to the VA hospital a minimum of 2 times per month! I have personally talked to many of the troops who were wounded over in Iraq and Afganistan.
I have yet to meet one who regrets haveing gone over there to do the job they volenteered for! And most have said that they wish they could get back to help their friends with the job assigned to them!
And what you talk about this gungho crap is just that, CRAP!
These troops have told me about the differences that we are makeing over there that the media does not put out for you to hear! The media sides with the likes of Pelosi and them and they only put out the things to make the public feel as though there is no hope over there!
And like I said, I will trust the words of the troops who have been there before I will trust a politition or the media!0 -
quote:Originally posted by newtgingrich
quote:Originally posted by ObiWan
[br Corporate America forced them to military service by removing their jobs.
yeah, i guess that explains the %4.3 unemployment rate
You are a winner. How does the US Govt come up with it's guesstimate unemployment rate?
By reports from States of those getting unemployment benefits....doesnt count those that are no longer eligible for unemployment...is not an accurate measurement of the real unemployment rate. They even state such on their website....check it out.0 -
quote:Originally posted by newtgingrich
Dont those two sentences show that you are wrong ? I see things on the news everyday or wounded soldiers. One of the reasons though why it isnt that important to show them is because its basically irrelevant. Soldiers have been killed and wouded ever since the first war was fought. If that bothers you then go hide under a desk and pray that a magic angel comes down and provides your freedom and security for you.
Thank God we invaded Iraq then, Saddam was just days away from taking away our freedom. [xx(]
Seriously, can anyone even tell me why we are still in Iraq? Our reasons for being there seem to change like the seasons. First it was WMD, then that didn't pan out. Then it was to get Saddam, which we did. Then it was to set up a democratic government, which we did. Saddam got hung, Iraq got free elections, why the f**k are we still there? Is it to get the terrorists? If so, then why has our government neglected the fight against the MORE IMPORTANT terrorists in Afghanistan? Does ANYONE in our government remember Al-Qaeda, those guys who attacked us on 9/11? Oh, I forgot, Bush "isn't concerned" with Bin Laden anymore.
It makes one wonder, just why are we in Iraq? It can't be for the terrorists, because the real bad guys are hiding out in Northern Pakistan and their number one supporters are in Saudi Arabia. Iraq is quite the "Golden Goose" though for PMCs like KBR and Blackwater, it's quite an ingenious way to funnel BILLIONS in taxpayer funds to private corporations friendly with the current government, wouldn't you say? And of course, I'm sure those lucrative 30-year Production Sharing Agreements that Exxon/Mobil, Shell, and other western oil companies have with the Iraqi government to harvest their oil has something to do with it. I wouldn't ask any young American solider to go sacrafice his legs or his life for the profits of some f**king corporation, it's shameful that so many of you would.0 -
What part of National Guard.....means a deployable Federal military force? 0 -
quote:Originally posted by ObiWan
What part of National Guard.....means a deployable Federal military force?
The National Guard still falls under Fedral jurisdiction with some powers given to the home states.
There for durring times of local emergencies state goveners can call upon the gaurd for assistance.
But the ultimate power still goes to the Comander in Chief (The president) so there fore they can be activated just like any other reserve conponent.
So the answer is they are just as deployable as any other member of the armed forces! And if you look through your history books National Guard units have been deployed in all our wars!0 -
quote:Originally posted by warriorsfan
quote:Originally posted by newtgingrich
Dont those two sentences show that you are wrong ? I see things on the news everyday or wounded soldiers. One of the reasons though why it isnt that important to show them is because its basically irrelevant. Soldiers have been killed and wouded ever since the first war was fought. If that bothers you then go hide under a desk and pray that a magic angel comes down and provides your freedom and security for you.
Thank God we invaded Iraq then, Saddam was just days away from taking away our freedom. [xx(]
Seriously, can anyone even tell me why we are still in Iraq? Our reasons for being there seem to change like the seasons. First it was WMD, then that didn't pan out. Then it was to get Saddam, which we did. Then it was to set up a democratic government, which we did. Saddam got hung, Iraq got free elections, why the f**k are we still there? Is it to get the terrorists? If so, then why has our government neglected the fight against the MORE IMPORTANT terrorists in Afghanistan? Does ANYONE in our government remember Al-Qaeda, those guys who attacked us on 9/11? Oh, I forgot, Bush "isn't concerned" with Bin Laden anymore.
It makes one wonder, just why are we in Iraq? It can't be for the terrorists, because the real bad guys are hiding out in Northern Pakistan and their number one supporters are in Saudi Arabia. Iraq is quite the "Golden Goose" though for PMCs like KBR and Blackwater, it's quite an ingenious way to funnel BILLIONS in taxpayer funds to private corporations friendly with the current government, wouldn't you say? And of course, I'm sure those lucrative 30-year Production Sharing Agreements that Exxon/Mobil, Shell, and other western oil companies have with the Iraqi government to harvest their oil has something to do with it. I wouldn't ask any young American solider to go sacrafice his legs or his life for the profits of some f**king corporation, it's shameful that so many of you would.
We are still in Iraq because if we had already pulled out, there would be no Iraq. Iran would own it. You want Iran to own the Iraqi oilfields? You want to go to war with Iran? They have a REAL military and Iran is a very mountainous country. It would be a blood bath to pursue a ground war in Iran, which is what you would have to do to kick them back out of Iraq. Your nonsense about the PMCs and the oil companies is just that, nonsense. The PMCs make money whether we are in a shooting war or not, the gov pays them billions every year for weapon systems in peace time also. And the PMCs employ tens of thousands of people, you going to cut funding to them and lay all those people off? As for the "contractors" making money, sure they do. But that is nothing new, many of the government agencies are largely made up of contract workers, there are more contractors in my office than there are government employees and they make more money. You would be very surprised what those contractors do. You want to cut the budgets and lay off those tens of thousands of contractors too? Then you would be complaining about how bad the economy and the unemployment rate is. You just don't know how the modern military/industrial complex works. As for the oil companies, they are not making one cent on Iraq oil so far. The security costs are outrageous. If/when Iraq settles down, they might make some money but then they should. Operating there is not pleasant, cheap or easy. I am quite sure you love to put gasoline in your vehicles so that you can drive around and do frivolous things like shooting. How do you think that gas gets into your tank? Oil companies. You people that bad mouth the oil companies making a profit, while at the same time you drive your big hunting trucks and wasting gas doing things you don't need to, are hypocrites.0 -
quote:Originally posted by ObiWan
What part of National Guard.....means a deployable Federal military force?
Obviously, you do not know the history or the organization of the National Guard. It is NOT owned by the states for the Governors' own use for hurricanes and such, even though some governors seem to think it is. If it was, the Guard would not have combat units and combat aircraft. They would just have search and rescue capabilities and such. I spent 7 years in various units of the 29th Division of the Army Guard, all of our armories are painted with "Remember Omaha". As in Omaha beach in the WWII D-Day invasion.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._29th_Infantry_Division
http://www.ngb.army.mil/About/default.aspx0 -
""National Guard members and reservists now comprise a larger percentage of frontline fighting forces than in any war in U.S. history (About 43 percent in Iraq and 55 percent in Afghanistan).""
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_National_Guard
The 29th Infantry Division spent 242 days in combat in WWII.0 -
quote:Originally posted by ObiWan
""National Guard members and reservists now comprise a larger percentage of frontline fighting forces than in any war in U.S. history (About 43 percent in Iraq and 55 percent in Afghanistan).""
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_National_Guard
The 29th Infantry Division spent 242 days in combat in WWII.
And your point is what?
They are part of our armed forces! They volenteered their names on the dotted line and knew full well what that could entail!
You are asking questions and makeing statements that have absolutly no bearing on the subject!0 -
I noticed more then just a few young men at the range, with artificial legs , arms. That was over three years ago.I'm sure they voted the last time around. 0 -
I don't think anyone on either side of the war thinks that we can do enough for the injured and crippled. It makes me sick, and its horribly sad.
I do have one thing, though, as long as we're talking about an "all volunteer" army. Someone posted here that the risk of joining the army is going off to war, and what did they expect. Now, that being the case, would this same poster "thank them for their service", if in fact, they CHOSE to do this, they got their pay and got their benefits?0 -
quote:Originally posted by Jgreen
I don't think anyone on either side of the war thinks that we can do enough for the injured and crippled. It makes me sick, and its horribly sad.
I do have one thing, though, as long as we're talking about an "all volunteer" army. Someone posted here that the risk of joining the army is going off to war, and what did they expect. Now, that being the case, would this same poster "thank them for their service", if in fact, they CHOSE to do this, they got their pay and got their benefits?
I did make points about them volunteering, so if you are talking about me, of course I would thank them for their service and their sacrifice. And I actually do it, as I am member of the American Legion and we interface with returning vets all the time. And in my full time job, we have had many reservists and guard members called up and some of them have been killed and others gravely wounded. We do all we can for them and their families. I personally have had colleagues killed in combat since 9/11, and have many friends in nasty places right now.0
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