Swat Team Takes 11 y/o boy at Gunpoint...
All b/c the father is a so called "Constitutionalist". Just one more indication of the police state we are living in. I would sue these dudes into oblivion.
http://wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=59566
Police demand boy go to doctor because of fall during horseplay
Posted: January 7, 2008
1:00 a.m. Eastern
By Bob Unruh
c 2008 WorldNetDaily.com
Nearly a dozen members of a police SWAT team in western Colorado punched a hole in the front door and invaded a family's home with guns drawn, demanding that an 11-year-old boy who had had an accidental fall accompany them to the hospital, on the order of Garfield County Magistrate Lain Leoniak.
The boy's parents and siblings were thrown to the floor at gunpoint and the parents were handcuffed in the weekend assault, and the boy's father told WND it was all because a paramedic was upset the family preferred to care for their son themselves.
Someone, apparently the unidentified paramedic, called police, the sheriff's office and social services, eventually providing Leoniak with a report that generated the magistrate's court order to the sheriff's office for the SWAT team assault on the family's home in a mobile home development outside of Glenwood Springs, the father, Tom Shiflett, told WND.
WND calls and e-mails to Garfield County Social Services were not returned, and Leoniak, who earlier served as a water court clerk/referee, also was not available.
Sheriff Lou Vallario, however, did call back, and told WND he ordered his officers to do exactly what the magistrate demanded.
"I was given a court order by the magistrate to seize the child, and arrange for medical evaluation, and that's what we did," he said.
According to friends of the family, Tom Shiflett, who has 10 children including six still at home, and served with paramedics in Vietnam, was monitoring his son's condition himself.
The paramedic and magistrate, however, ruled that that wasn't adequate, and dispatched the officers to take the boy, John, to a hospital, where a doctor evaluated him and released him immediately.
The accident happened during horseplay, Tom Shiflett told WND. John was grabbing the door handle of a car as his sister was starting to drive away slowly. He slipped, fell to the ground and hit his head, Shiflett said.
He immediately carried his son into their home several doors away, and John was able to recite Bible verses and correctly spell words as his father and mother, Tina, requested. There were no broken bones, no dilated eyes, or any other noticeable problems.
The family, whose members live by faith and homeschool, decided not to call an ambulance. But a neighbor did call Westcare Ambulance, and paramedics responded to the home, asking to see and evaluate the boy.
The paramedics were allowed to see the boy, and found no significant impairment, but wanted to take him to the hospital for an evaluation anyway. Fearing the hospital's bills, the family refused to allow that.
"This apparently did not go over well with one of the paramedics and they started getting aggravated at Tom for not letting them have their way," a family acquaintance told WND.
"The paramedics were not at all respectful of Tom's decision, nor did they act in a manner we would expect from professional paramedics," the acquaintance said.
So the ambulance crew, who also could not be reached by WND, called police, only to be told the decision was up to the Shiflett familiy.
The paramedics then called the sheriff's office, and officers responded to the home, and were told everyone was being cared for.
Then the next day, Friday, social services workers appeared at the door and demanded to talk with John "in private."
They were so persistent Tom ended up having to get John out of the bathtub he was just soaking in, to bring him to the front porch where the social workers could see him, the family reported.
Then, following an afternoon shopping trip to town, the family settled in for the evening, only to be shocked with the SWAT team attack.
The sheriff said the decision to use SWAT team force was justified because the father was a "self-proclaimed constitutionalist" and had made threats and "comments" over the years.
However, the sheriff declined to provide a single instance of the father's illegal behavior. "I can't tell you specifically," he said.
"He was refusing to provide medical care," the sheriff said.
However, the sheriff said if his own children were involved in an at-home accident, he would want to be the one to make decisions on their healthcare, as did Shiflett.
"I guess if that was one of my children, I would make that decision," the sheriff said.
But he said Shiflett was "rude and confrontational" when the paramedics arrived and entered his home without his permission.
The sheriff also admitted that the injury to the child had been at least 24 hours earlier, because the fall apparently happened Thursday afternoon, and the SWAT attack happened late Friday evening.
Officials with the Home School Legal Defense Association reported they were looking into the case, because of requests from family friends who are members of the organization.
"While people can debate whether or not the father should have brought his son to the ER - it seems like this was not the kind of emergency that warrants this kind of outrageous conduct by government officials," a spokesman said.
Tm Shiflett said when John was evaluated by the physician, "they didn't find anything wrong with him."
He said the paramedics never should have entered his home, but they followed his wife in the front door when she came in.
"My attention was on my son," Shiflett said.
He said the SWAT team punched a hole in his door with a ramrod, and the first officer in the home pointed a gun right in the face of Tom's 20-year-old daughter.
"I don't know where social services ever got started, or where they got their authority," he said. "But I want to know why we have something in this country that violates our rights, that takes a parental right away."
He said he saw a multitude of injuries in Vietnam, and while he recognized that his son needed to be watched, he wasn't willing to turn his child over to the paramedics.
With 10 children, most of them older than John, it's not as if he hasn't seen a bruise or two, either, he said.
"Now I'm hunting for lawyers that will take the case . I'm going to sue everybody whose name was on that page right down to the judge," he said.
Mike Donnelly, a lawyer with the HSLDA, told WND the case had a set of circumstances that could be problematic for authorities.
"In Doe V. Heck, the 7th Circuit Court of Appeals held that parents have a fundamental right to familial relations including a liberty interest in the care, custody and control of their children," he said.
He also said man social services agencies apply "a one size fits all approach" to cases, regardless of circumstances.
http://wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=59566
Police demand boy go to doctor because of fall during horseplay
Posted: January 7, 2008
1:00 a.m. Eastern
By Bob Unruh
c 2008 WorldNetDaily.com
Nearly a dozen members of a police SWAT team in western Colorado punched a hole in the front door and invaded a family's home with guns drawn, demanding that an 11-year-old boy who had had an accidental fall accompany them to the hospital, on the order of Garfield County Magistrate Lain Leoniak.
The boy's parents and siblings were thrown to the floor at gunpoint and the parents were handcuffed in the weekend assault, and the boy's father told WND it was all because a paramedic was upset the family preferred to care for their son themselves.
Someone, apparently the unidentified paramedic, called police, the sheriff's office and social services, eventually providing Leoniak with a report that generated the magistrate's court order to the sheriff's office for the SWAT team assault on the family's home in a mobile home development outside of Glenwood Springs, the father, Tom Shiflett, told WND.
WND calls and e-mails to Garfield County Social Services were not returned, and Leoniak, who earlier served as a water court clerk/referee, also was not available.
Sheriff Lou Vallario, however, did call back, and told WND he ordered his officers to do exactly what the magistrate demanded.
"I was given a court order by the magistrate to seize the child, and arrange for medical evaluation, and that's what we did," he said.
According to friends of the family, Tom Shiflett, who has 10 children including six still at home, and served with paramedics in Vietnam, was monitoring his son's condition himself.
The paramedic and magistrate, however, ruled that that wasn't adequate, and dispatched the officers to take the boy, John, to a hospital, where a doctor evaluated him and released him immediately.
The accident happened during horseplay, Tom Shiflett told WND. John was grabbing the door handle of a car as his sister was starting to drive away slowly. He slipped, fell to the ground and hit his head, Shiflett said.
He immediately carried his son into their home several doors away, and John was able to recite Bible verses and correctly spell words as his father and mother, Tina, requested. There were no broken bones, no dilated eyes, or any other noticeable problems.
The family, whose members live by faith and homeschool, decided not to call an ambulance. But a neighbor did call Westcare Ambulance, and paramedics responded to the home, asking to see and evaluate the boy.
The paramedics were allowed to see the boy, and found no significant impairment, but wanted to take him to the hospital for an evaluation anyway. Fearing the hospital's bills, the family refused to allow that.
"This apparently did not go over well with one of the paramedics and they started getting aggravated at Tom for not letting them have their way," a family acquaintance told WND.
"The paramedics were not at all respectful of Tom's decision, nor did they act in a manner we would expect from professional paramedics," the acquaintance said.
So the ambulance crew, who also could not be reached by WND, called police, only to be told the decision was up to the Shiflett familiy.
The paramedics then called the sheriff's office, and officers responded to the home, and were told everyone was being cared for.
Then the next day, Friday, social services workers appeared at the door and demanded to talk with John "in private."
They were so persistent Tom ended up having to get John out of the bathtub he was just soaking in, to bring him to the front porch where the social workers could see him, the family reported.
Then, following an afternoon shopping trip to town, the family settled in for the evening, only to be shocked with the SWAT team attack.
The sheriff said the decision to use SWAT team force was justified because the father was a "self-proclaimed constitutionalist" and had made threats and "comments" over the years.
However, the sheriff declined to provide a single instance of the father's illegal behavior. "I can't tell you specifically," he said.
"He was refusing to provide medical care," the sheriff said.
However, the sheriff said if his own children were involved in an at-home accident, he would want to be the one to make decisions on their healthcare, as did Shiflett.
"I guess if that was one of my children, I would make that decision," the sheriff said.
But he said Shiflett was "rude and confrontational" when the paramedics arrived and entered his home without his permission.
The sheriff also admitted that the injury to the child had been at least 24 hours earlier, because the fall apparently happened Thursday afternoon, and the SWAT attack happened late Friday evening.
Officials with the Home School Legal Defense Association reported they were looking into the case, because of requests from family friends who are members of the organization.
"While people can debate whether or not the father should have brought his son to the ER - it seems like this was not the kind of emergency that warrants this kind of outrageous conduct by government officials," a spokesman said.
Tm Shiflett said when John was evaluated by the physician, "they didn't find anything wrong with him."
He said the paramedics never should have entered his home, but they followed his wife in the front door when she came in.
"My attention was on my son," Shiflett said.
He said the SWAT team punched a hole in his door with a ramrod, and the first officer in the home pointed a gun right in the face of Tom's 20-year-old daughter.
"I don't know where social services ever got started, or where they got their authority," he said. "But I want to know why we have something in this country that violates our rights, that takes a parental right away."
He said he saw a multitude of injuries in Vietnam, and while he recognized that his son needed to be watched, he wasn't willing to turn his child over to the paramedics.
With 10 children, most of them older than John, it's not as if he hasn't seen a bruise or two, either, he said.
"Now I'm hunting for lawyers that will take the case . I'm going to sue everybody whose name was on that page right down to the judge," he said.
Mike Donnelly, a lawyer with the HSLDA, told WND the case had a set of circumstances that could be problematic for authorities.
"In Doe V. Heck, the 7th Circuit Court of Appeals held that parents have a fundamental right to familial relations including a liberty interest in the care, custody and control of their children," he said.
He also said man social services agencies apply "a one size fits all approach" to cases, regardless of circumstances.
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They needed a SWAT Team for THAT?!
I think a public apology to the whole family and about 5 million dollars would be a good start. Mostly, the decision makers should be removed from their jobs.0 -
quote:Originally posted by guntech59
They needed a SWAT Team for THAT?!
I think a public apology to the whole family and about 5 million dollars would be a good start. Mostly, the decision makers should be removed from their jobs.
All of what you said should just be the beginning...I hope to God that they end up bankrupting the local gov't with this lawsuit...and I hope heads roll.
They used the Swat team b/c the man was a so called "Constitutionalist". Hello!!!! This is F&*(%ng America. Everyone should be a "Constitutionalist"!!! This country has already gone to hell in a hand basket. It's not going there....it is there.0 -
That boy could have had a brain injury which wouldn't show up till later. What a piece of cr@p dad for not letting him get evaluated because he didn't want to pay for the hospital bills. I see this as the police trying to help the son from his idiot father![:(!][:(!] 0 -
quote:Originally posted by peon
That boy could have had a brain injury which wouldn't show up till later. What a piece of cr@p dad for not letting him get evaluated because he didn't want to pay for the hospital bills. I see this as the police trying to help the son from his idiot father![:(!][:(!]
Government needs to fix itself before it tries to fix my family.0 -
quote:Originally posted by mateomasfeo
quote:Originally posted by peon
That boy could have had a brain injury which wouldn't show up till later. What a piece of cr@p dad for not letting him get evaluated because he didn't want to pay for the hospital bills. I see this as the police trying to help the son from his idiot father![:(!][:(!]
Government needs to fix itself before it tries to fix my family.
Folks that is from a lawyer...
Mateo,
0 -
quote:Originally posted by peon
That boy could have had a brain injury which wouldn't show up till later. What a piece of cr@p dad for not letting him get evaluated because he didn't want to pay for the hospital bills. I see this as the police trying to help the son from his idiot father![:(!][:(!]
That is BS...A parent has every right to determine whether or not their child needs medical treatment. The father had medical experience. The paramedics thought the boy was ok too.
THERE IS NO F
WAY we need the Gov't determining when we need medical care! This is BS!0 -
quote:Originally posted by mateomasfeo
quote:Originally posted by peon
That boy could have had a brain injury which wouldn't show up till later. What a piece of cr@p dad for not letting him get evaluated because he didn't want to pay for the hospital bills. I see this as the police trying to help the son from his idiot father![:(!][:(!]
Government needs to fix itself before it tries to fix my family.
Dead on Matty!0 -
quote:Originally posted by mateomasfeo
quote:Originally posted by peon
That boy could have had a brain injury which wouldn't show up till later. What a piece of cr@p dad for not letting him get evaluated because he didn't want to pay for the hospital bills. I see this as the police trying to help the son from his idiot father![:(!][:(!]
Government needs to fix itself before it tries to fix my family.
DAMN STRAIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!0 -
quote:Originally posted by peon
That boy could have had a brain injury which wouldn't show up till later. What a piece of cr@p dad for not letting him get evaluated because he didn't want to pay for the hospital bills. I see this as the police trying to help the son from his idiot father![:(!][:(!]
You are joking right?0 -
That family name has a long history of trouble in this neck of the woods. 0 -
man! if that happened to me and my family there would want to be at least 8 zero`s on the end of the compensation cheque!! and more than a one in front of those zeroe`s! when i read things like this it makes me get a nasty feeling in my gut! ..back soon fellers...i got to go to the toilet and get rid of it.....oh, and by the way...i`m real sorry it now appears to be an offence to believe in your constitution now!... 0 -
I am suprised the cops didnt kill the little feller trying to save him. Damn revenuors. Yep. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by v35
That family name has a long history of trouble in this neck of the woods.
So...that does not negate their RIGHTS!0 -
I agree....we are living in a POLICE STATE!!!!
Welcome to Amerika!0 -
Yep, more laws and prosecution all the time. most people in jail of any country in the world. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by peon
That boy could have had a brain injury which wouldn't show up till later. What a piece of cr@p dad for not letting him get evaluated because he didn't want to pay for the hospital bills. I see this as the police trying to help the son from his idiot father![:(!][:(!]
You have self identified as being a large part of the problem in America of allowing/accepting an out-of-control government.
Lord help us all with citizens like this to vote.0 -
quote:Originally posted by v35
That family name has a long history of trouble in this neck of the woods.
So what?
Personal liberties trump predatory and/or do-gooder government intervention every time. At least they used to, before we shat on the appropriate and constitutional role of government.0 -
I support the use of modern "Goliaths" against SWAT goons
(google Goliath and german mine...nasty weapon that does not put the operator in harms way [:D] )0 -
quote:peon
Member
568 Posts
Posted - 01/09/2008 : 8:46:48 PM
That boy could have had a brain injury which wouldn't show up till later. What a piece of cr@p dad for not letting him get evaluated because he didn't want to pay for the hospital bills. I see this as the police trying to help the son from his idiot father!
The Beast would be powerless if we didn't have ever more people that actually think this way.
Personal freedom is as alien to these people as little green men from Mars...0 -
quote:Originally posted by KSUmarksman
I support the use of modern "Goliaths" against SWAT goons
(google Goliath and german mine...nasty weapon that does not put the operator in harms way [:D] )
I'm not coming up with anything...how about a link???0 -
I thought you folks out West were supposed to have more sense than that. If this is going on in Colorado, what the hell is happening in Boston and New York City? 0 -
quote:The sheriff said the decision to use SWAT team force was justified because the father was a "self-proclaimed constitutionalist" and had made threats and "comments" over the years.
So What's new?
The Moderator said the decision to use poof force was justified because the poster was a "self-proclaimed constitutionalist" and had made threats and "comments" over the years.
[:D][}:)]0 -
quote:Originally posted by JamesRK
I thought you folks out West were supposed to have more sense than that. If this is going on in Colorado, what the hell is happening in Boston and New York City?
Be afraid James...be very afraid!0 -
quote:Originally posted by p3skyking
quote:The sheriff said the decision to use SWAT team force was justified because the father was a "self-proclaimed constitutionalist" and had made threats and "comments" over the years.
So What's new?
The Moderator said the decision to use poof force was justified because the poster was a "self-proclaimed constitutionalist" and had made threats and "comments" over the years.
[:D][}:)]
Not this moderator p3sky...[;)]0 -
My Opinion - Peon, You are part of the problem!!! They did this only because the Father is a "Constitutionalist". Great - now we have a PC name for believing in OUR constitution. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by ECC
Not this moderator p3sky...[;)]
I know Eric. I also know that it's the cyber world and it doesn't count if the power goes off![:D]
This is the world where geeks rule, but I only visit. I don't live here like some.........[;)][}:)]0 -
I agree that this was way over the edge. However I wonder what we would all be saying if the father exercised his right to refuse professional treatment, and the kid did have some sort of fatal head injury. Would we be all over the the dad for being a jackass for not seeking professional treatment? 0 -
quote:Originally posted by PanzerSlayer2
I agree that this was way over the edge. However I wonder what we would all be saying if the father exercised his right to refuse professional treatment, and the kid did have some sort of fatal head injury. Would we be all over the the dad for being a jackass for not seeking professional treatment?
Yep but thems two differnet things, Damn straight0 -
Unfortunately, if you have a SWAT team, to justify it's existance, it must be used now and then. What is really interesting here, how/why did the judge issue the order to action? Someone must have really sold him a bill of goods or this is just a plain idiot.
Too bad but small towns do not have budgets to compensate people who have been screwed by politicians like this. Tom0 -
the government should NEVER mandate medical care for ANYONE. but they do. and the day is coming when the government is going to mandate more and more and more control over YOUR body.
i find it ironic that the government says a 13 yr old girl's body is hers and she is able to make a decision for her body to have an abortion but a parent and a son cant make a decision for themselves.0
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