Swat Team Takes 11 y/o boy at Gunpoint...
All b/c the father is a so called "Constitutionalist". Just one more indication of the police state we are living in. I would sue these dudes into oblivion.
http://wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=59566
Police demand boy go to doctor because of fall during horseplay
Posted: January 7, 2008
1:00 a.m. Eastern
By Bob Unruh
c 2008 WorldNetDaily.com
Nearly a dozen members of a police SWAT team in western Colorado punched a hole in the front door and invaded a family's home with guns drawn, demanding that an 11-year-old boy who had had an accidental fall accompany them to the hospital, on the order of Garfield County Magistrate Lain Leoniak.
The boy's parents and siblings were thrown to the floor at gunpoint and the parents were handcuffed in the weekend assault, and the boy's father told WND it was all because a paramedic was upset the family preferred to care for their son themselves.
Someone, apparently the unidentified paramedic, called police, the sheriff's office and social services, eventually providing Leoniak with a report that generated the magistrate's court order to the sheriff's office for the SWAT team assault on the family's home in a mobile home development outside of Glenwood Springs, the father, Tom Shiflett, told WND.
WND calls and e-mails to Garfield County Social Services were not returned, and Leoniak, who earlier served as a water court clerk/referee, also was not available.
Sheriff Lou Vallario, however, did call back, and told WND he ordered his officers to do exactly what the magistrate demanded.
"I was given a court order by the magistrate to seize the child, and arrange for medical evaluation, and that's what we did," he said.
According to friends of the family, Tom Shiflett, who has 10 children including six still at home, and served with paramedics in Vietnam, was monitoring his son's condition himself.
The paramedic and magistrate, however, ruled that that wasn't adequate, and dispatched the officers to take the boy, John, to a hospital, where a doctor evaluated him and released him immediately.
The accident happened during horseplay, Tom Shiflett told WND. John was grabbing the door handle of a car as his sister was starting to drive away slowly. He slipped, fell to the ground and hit his head, Shiflett said.
He immediately carried his son into their home several doors away, and John was able to recite Bible verses and correctly spell words as his father and mother, Tina, requested. There were no broken bones, no dilated eyes, or any other noticeable problems.
The family, whose members live by faith and homeschool, decided not to call an ambulance. But a neighbor did call Westcare Ambulance, and paramedics responded to the home, asking to see and evaluate the boy.
The paramedics were allowed to see the boy, and found no significant impairment, but wanted to take him to the hospital for an evaluation anyway. Fearing the hospital's bills, the family refused to allow that.
"This apparently did not go over well with one of the paramedics and they started getting aggravated at Tom for not letting them have their way," a family acquaintance told WND.
"The paramedics were not at all respectful of Tom's decision, nor did they act in a manner we would expect from professional paramedics," the acquaintance said.
So the ambulance crew, who also could not be reached by WND, called police, only to be told the decision was up to the Shiflett familiy.
The paramedics then called the sheriff's office, and officers responded to the home, and were told everyone was being cared for.
Then the next day, Friday, social services workers appeared at the door and demanded to talk with John "in private."
They were so persistent Tom ended up having to get John out of the bathtub he was just soaking in, to bring him to the front porch where the social workers could see him, the family reported.
Then, following an afternoon shopping trip to town, the family settled in for the evening, only to be shocked with the SWAT team attack.
The sheriff said the decision to use SWAT team force was justified because the father was a "self-proclaimed constitutionalist" and had made threats and "comments" over the years.
However, the sheriff declined to provide a single instance of the father's illegal behavior. "I can't tell you specifically," he said.
"He was refusing to provide medical care," the sheriff said.
However, the sheriff said if his own children were involved in an at-home accident, he would want to be the one to make decisions on their healthcare, as did Shiflett.
"I guess if that was one of my children, I would make that decision," the sheriff said.
But he said Shiflett was "rude and confrontational" when the paramedics arrived and entered his home without his permission.
The sheriff also admitted that the injury to the child had been at least 24 hours earlier, because the fall apparently happened Thursday afternoon, and the SWAT attack happened late Friday evening.
Officials with the Home School Legal Defense Association reported they were looking into the case, because of requests from family friends who are members of the organization.
"While people can debate whether or not the father should have brought his son to the ER - it seems like this was not the kind of emergency that warrants this kind of outrageous conduct by government officials," a spokesman said.
Tm Shiflett said when John was evaluated by the physician, "they didn't find anything wrong with him."
He said the paramedics never should have entered his home, but they followed his wife in the front door when she came in.
"My attention was on my son," Shiflett said.
He said the SWAT team punched a hole in his door with a ramrod, and the first officer in the home pointed a gun right in the face of Tom's 20-year-old daughter.
"I don't know where social services ever got started, or where they got their authority," he said. "But I want to know why we have something in this country that violates our rights, that takes a parental right away."
He said he saw a multitude of injuries in Vietnam, and while he recognized that his son needed to be watched, he wasn't willing to turn his child over to the paramedics.
With 10 children, most of them older than John, it's not as if he hasn't seen a bruise or two, either, he said.
"Now I'm hunting for lawyers that will take the case . I'm going to sue everybody whose name was on that page right down to the judge," he said.
Mike Donnelly, a lawyer with the HSLDA, told WND the case had a set of circumstances that could be problematic for authorities.
"In Doe V. Heck, the 7th Circuit Court of Appeals held that parents have a fundamental right to familial relations including a liberty interest in the care, custody and control of their children," he said.
He also said man social services agencies apply "a one size fits all approach" to cases, regardless of circumstances.
http://wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=59566
Police demand boy go to doctor because of fall during horseplay
Posted: January 7, 2008
1:00 a.m. Eastern
By Bob Unruh
c 2008 WorldNetDaily.com
Nearly a dozen members of a police SWAT team in western Colorado punched a hole in the front door and invaded a family's home with guns drawn, demanding that an 11-year-old boy who had had an accidental fall accompany them to the hospital, on the order of Garfield County Magistrate Lain Leoniak.
The boy's parents and siblings were thrown to the floor at gunpoint and the parents were handcuffed in the weekend assault, and the boy's father told WND it was all because a paramedic was upset the family preferred to care for their son themselves.
Someone, apparently the unidentified paramedic, called police, the sheriff's office and social services, eventually providing Leoniak with a report that generated the magistrate's court order to the sheriff's office for the SWAT team assault on the family's home in a mobile home development outside of Glenwood Springs, the father, Tom Shiflett, told WND.
WND calls and e-mails to Garfield County Social Services were not returned, and Leoniak, who earlier served as a water court clerk/referee, also was not available.
Sheriff Lou Vallario, however, did call back, and told WND he ordered his officers to do exactly what the magistrate demanded.
"I was given a court order by the magistrate to seize the child, and arrange for medical evaluation, and that's what we did," he said.
According to friends of the family, Tom Shiflett, who has 10 children including six still at home, and served with paramedics in Vietnam, was monitoring his son's condition himself.
The paramedic and magistrate, however, ruled that that wasn't adequate, and dispatched the officers to take the boy, John, to a hospital, where a doctor evaluated him and released him immediately.
The accident happened during horseplay, Tom Shiflett told WND. John was grabbing the door handle of a car as his sister was starting to drive away slowly. He slipped, fell to the ground and hit his head, Shiflett said.
He immediately carried his son into their home several doors away, and John was able to recite Bible verses and correctly spell words as his father and mother, Tina, requested. There were no broken bones, no dilated eyes, or any other noticeable problems.
The family, whose members live by faith and homeschool, decided not to call an ambulance. But a neighbor did call Westcare Ambulance, and paramedics responded to the home, asking to see and evaluate the boy.
The paramedics were allowed to see the boy, and found no significant impairment, but wanted to take him to the hospital for an evaluation anyway. Fearing the hospital's bills, the family refused to allow that.
"This apparently did not go over well with one of the paramedics and they started getting aggravated at Tom for not letting them have their way," a family acquaintance told WND.
"The paramedics were not at all respectful of Tom's decision, nor did they act in a manner we would expect from professional paramedics," the acquaintance said.
So the ambulance crew, who also could not be reached by WND, called police, only to be told the decision was up to the Shiflett familiy.
The paramedics then called the sheriff's office, and officers responded to the home, and were told everyone was being cared for.
Then the next day, Friday, social services workers appeared at the door and demanded to talk with John "in private."
They were so persistent Tom ended up having to get John out of the bathtub he was just soaking in, to bring him to the front porch where the social workers could see him, the family reported.
Then, following an afternoon shopping trip to town, the family settled in for the evening, only to be shocked with the SWAT team attack.
The sheriff said the decision to use SWAT team force was justified because the father was a "self-proclaimed constitutionalist" and had made threats and "comments" over the years.
However, the sheriff declined to provide a single instance of the father's illegal behavior. "I can't tell you specifically," he said.
"He was refusing to provide medical care," the sheriff said.
However, the sheriff said if his own children were involved in an at-home accident, he would want to be the one to make decisions on their healthcare, as did Shiflett.
"I guess if that was one of my children, I would make that decision," the sheriff said.
But he said Shiflett was "rude and confrontational" when the paramedics arrived and entered his home without his permission.
The sheriff also admitted that the injury to the child had been at least 24 hours earlier, because the fall apparently happened Thursday afternoon, and the SWAT attack happened late Friday evening.
Officials with the Home School Legal Defense Association reported they were looking into the case, because of requests from family friends who are members of the organization.
"While people can debate whether or not the father should have brought his son to the ER - it seems like this was not the kind of emergency that warrants this kind of outrageous conduct by government officials," a spokesman said.
Tm Shiflett said when John was evaluated by the physician, "they didn't find anything wrong with him."
He said the paramedics never should have entered his home, but they followed his wife in the front door when she came in.
"My attention was on my son," Shiflett said.
He said the SWAT team punched a hole in his door with a ramrod, and the first officer in the home pointed a gun right in the face of Tom's 20-year-old daughter.
"I don't know where social services ever got started, or where they got their authority," he said. "But I want to know why we have something in this country that violates our rights, that takes a parental right away."
He said he saw a multitude of injuries in Vietnam, and while he recognized that his son needed to be watched, he wasn't willing to turn his child over to the paramedics.
With 10 children, most of them older than John, it's not as if he hasn't seen a bruise or two, either, he said.
"Now I'm hunting for lawyers that will take the case . I'm going to sue everybody whose name was on that page right down to the judge," he said.
Mike Donnelly, a lawyer with the HSLDA, told WND the case had a set of circumstances that could be problematic for authorities.
"In Doe V. Heck, the 7th Circuit Court of Appeals held that parents have a fundamental right to familial relations including a liberty interest in the care, custody and control of their children," he said.
He also said man social services agencies apply "a one size fits all approach" to cases, regardless of circumstances.
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quote:Originally posted by PanzerSlayer2
I agree that this was way over the edge. However I wonder what we would all be saying if the father exercised his right to refuse professional treatment, and the kid did have some sort of fatal head injury. Would we be all over the the dad for being a jackass for not seeking professional treatment?
Whether the kid had a fatal head injury or not, hell, even if the kid was already dead, I doubt it was necessary to destroy the man's door and put the muzzle of a shotgun in the girl's face. In my opinion, a knock on the door should have been tried first.
Too many police running around in camouflage playing war for my liking. Some are necessary, but they do this kind of thing way too often. I still don't understand the need for camouflage though.0 -
quote:Originally posted by JamesRK
quote:Originally posted by PanzerSlayer2
I agree that this was way over the edge. However I wonder what we would all be saying if the father exercised his right to refuse professional treatment, and the kid did have some sort of fatal head injury. Would we be all over the the dad for being a jackass for not seeking professional treatment?
Whether the kid had a fatal head injury or not, hell, even if the kid was already dead, I doubt it was necessary to destroy the man's door and put the muzzle of a shotgun in the girl's face. In my opinion, a knock on the door should have been tried first.
Too many police running around in camouflage playing war for my liking. Some are necessary, but they do this kind of thing way too often. I still don't understand the need for camouflage though.
Yall do good to listen to Old Jim hear he gots some smarts that aint from books. Damn straight0 -
Well James, it may very well be when asked. What officer shot/killed,etc your poor old 97 year old aunt, I just don't know, they all looked alike. Seems like a good plan to me. Tom 0 -
That's very scary to me. Had cops kicked in my door like that there would of been gun fire back at them unless they are screaming police before they kick/blow the door open. I watch stories about robberys all the time that the robber kicks in the door and shoots folks dead without warning. I don't go far away from a gun especially in my home because of so many storys and where I live. 0 -
If there isn't more to the story then what is written, that is a pathetic excuse by the Swat team. If I had my head checked out by a doctor every time I fell when I was younger, my parents would be broke. I gashed my head open at least 3 times(that I can remember anyways[:D]) and never once seen a doctor. Pretty pathetic in my opinion.
Jon0 -
Some poeple just ask for trouble.
Keep quit. Do what your told and no one gets hurt.[:(!]
The Elian Gonzales picture comes to mind.0 -
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quote:Originally posted by v35
That family name has a long history of trouble in this neck of the woods.
Why is that? Just because they think outside the box? I am thinking the tax payers of that county are going to be building a mansion for that family, and they will probably be able to hire their own private doctor.
This is pretty much the same thing, and of the same nature as WACO, and Ruby Ridge(especially Ruby Ridge). This is supposed to be a Government for the people, by the people.0 -
quote:Originally posted by ECC
quote:Originally posted by KSUmarksman
I support the use of modern "Goliaths" against SWAT goons
(google Goliath and german mine...nasty weapon that does not put the operator in harms way [:D] )
I'm not coming up with anything...how about a link???
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Sue the crap out of 'em and demand ALL decision making authorities along with the no life interfering paramedic involved their jobs. EMS checked and all was good, Dr checked and all was good, man was a medic and knew what to look for.
VIOLATION OF CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS>
Lance0 -
I hope he gets 8 figures and I REALLY hope the lawsuit against the judge pan out! Judges need to knocked down a notch or two or three. They have become too powerful. 0 -
It's sad that the public (and in this case the sheriff) has bought into the liberal media's depiction of a Constitutionalist as some type of homeland terrorist. 0 -
Taking the family down at gun point could have killed a family member who was reacting to a breach of their home. HOW DANGEROUS and STUPID.
I hope heads roll and the family gets 8 figures. I am firmly behind the police but that action went WAY OVERBOARD. All it took was one smart arse paramedic who thinks he knows all for this to snowball out of hand. Most parents know their kids and how they react to any accident. I know head trauma can be hard to gauge but this guy had I bet more training than the paramedic who made the inept decision.0 -
I hope Tom get's 8 figures from the State.
I hope Tom's 20 year old daughter get's 4 figures for distress....no one should have a loaded weapon pointed at them by a Government employee for no reason.
I hope the 11 year old gets a restraining order against the Judge, the Police, Social Services, and the Ambulance.
If that ambulance was from that non-profit ambulance company....I hope they get money from their liability insurance as well.....lots of it. Defamation of character, invasion of privacy, trespassing, and religious discrimination.0 -
quote:Originally posted by 1911a1fan 
yep!
I see little difference between THAT and our nemesis "hadji"0 -
quote:Originally posted by bhale187
It's sad that the public (and in this case the sheriff) has bought into the liberal media's depiction of a Constitutionalist as some type of homeland terrorist.
That is evidently a FBI/Dept of Homeland Defense Definition now. Someone posted a pamphlet published by the FBI a while back that told LEO's what to look for in potential home grown terrorists. One of the traits was anyone who espouses a strong belief in the Constitution.[V][:(!]0 -
quote:Originally posted by KSUmarksman
quote:Originally posted by 1911a1fan
yep!
I see little difference between THAT and our nemesis "hadji"
...couldn't agree more. Amerika is here.[:(]0 -
Everyone's lucky did they didn't do that at my house; it would likley have ended a bloodbath for all involved. Would have been very unfortunate. 0 -
I wonder if the ACLU will take this one... 0 -
quote:Originally posted by PATBUZZARD
Everyone's lucky did they didn't do that at my house; it would likley have ended a bloodbath for all involved. Would have been very unfortunate.
The other bad part about it is, if you defended your home from someone you don't know kicking in the front door the media will spin it like you're the crazy survivalist.
So everyone will think you were nuts instead of just a regular guy getting mauled by a aggressive goverment to big for its britchs.0 -
quote:Originally posted by Kodiakk
quote:Originally posted by PATBUZZARD
Everyone's lucky did they didn't do that at my house; it would likley have ended a bloodbath for all involved. Would have been very unfortunate.
The other bad part about it is, if you defended your home from someone you don't know kicking in the front door the media will spin it like you're the crazy survivalist.
So everyone will think you were nuts instead of just a regular guy getting mauled by a aggressive goverment to big for its britchs.
not when your the only witness left standing[:D]0 -
I am willing to bet that the process and the aftermath would be different if they belonged to a "protected" ethnic group. No offense anyone. Well maybe a little. 0
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