Best 9mm round for stopping bad guys
I just bought a Ruger P85MII on the auction board. I am retired Military (1July07) and hated the 9mm as a side arm. Hated the loss of the 45. Anyway, the gun was new in box and never fired and I purchased as the only bid on the weapon for $295.00. Reading some reviews on this weapon, it will apparently digest all commercial produced rounds without problems.
For personal/home defense, what is the best 9mm round? I own a S&W 686 4 inch and a Browning High Power chambered in 40 cal.
The 9mm was just a fluke, but now that I have it, what is the best man stopper commercially produced?
Thanks for any help
For personal/home defense, what is the best 9mm round? I own a S&W 686 4 inch and a Browning High Power chambered in 40 cal.
The 9mm was just a fluke, but now that I have it, what is the best man stopper commercially produced?
Thanks for any help
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the absolute hands down best 9mm round for self defense,
are the ones that are marked .45acp![:D][}:)]0 -
quote:Originally posted by dano
If caliber is in question, make sure capacity isn't.
If capacity is limited, make sure caliber accuracy isn't. [;)]0 -
I like .45's and 9mm's but years ago while doing target practice in a junkyard, my FMJ .45 rounds were bouncing off windshields and the 9mm FMJ penetrated it. Both at 25 yards...?? 0 -
I currently carry a .40 as my full size, and a .380 as my compact. I have in the past carried both the 9mm and .45. I have never felt under gunned with the 9mm, .380 is a bit light, but it is better then not having any gun. I use to make fun of the .40 but got one and a good price. I shoot it very well and it is a great round so it has become my carry.
I carry Corbon ammo in my carry guns. I currently carry PoweRball in my .40 and have not had a chance to shoot anything with it yet. In my 9mm I carried the standard Corbon HP and have put down several injured deer with this round. Based on what it will do to a deer I have no problem carrying it for self defense.0 -
The one you can hit where you aim at every time. Now you have a reason to spend alot of money on different types of ammo to see what shoots the best for you and your pistol. I don't care if the round explodes on impact leaving a two foot crater, it doesn't do any good if it jams the pistol or doesn't hit where aimed. As for a personal/home defense it should do pretty well in getting you to your shotgun. 0 -
... quote:The one that will blast the lock off of the box that the .45 is in.
...[:D]..I second that...the bigger the hole, the more the "important" stuff runs out and more "important" stuff is hamburgered.
...A LOT of 9mm's suffer over penetration and pass thru the person, bad thing; means all the energy is not transferred to the threat your trying to stop. With a slower moving (875-1175fps) 45acp, at about twice the weight of the 9mm, most of the time all that energy is transferred to the scum bag, a good thing.
...For the 9mm, Golden Sabre, Hydra-Shoks...[^]
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quote:Originally posted by redneckandy
The one you can hit where you aim at every time. Now you have a reason to spend alot of money on different types of ammo to see what shoots the best for you and your pistol. I don't care if the round explodes on impact leaving a two foot crater, it doesn't do any good if it jams the pistol or doesn't hit where aimed. As for a personal/home defense it should do pretty well in getting you to your shotgun.
i agree. if you cant get constant placement, what good is the ammo0 -
For an everyday carry round that won't drain you like the exotics can, william81 made a good choice. The Federal 9BP or 9BP-LE work real well. The 9BP-LE is the same bullet but at +P velocity and there is no problem shooting +P in your Ruger if you can get them. Th "LE" is for law enforcement.
Federal Hydra-shoks also work well but keep to the lighter weights.
Disclaimer-This opinion is that of me and does not necessarily reflect those of the other basement loading room experts or the moderators on this site.[:D]0 -
quote:Originally posted by cartod
quote:Originally posted by tysonagreen
I'm not sure anybody on this forum has the expertise required to compare the terminal behavior of the bullets. Try several quality brands of JHP, find the one that cycles and groups the best for you, and then use that.
I saw 3 Dirty Harry movies, does that qualify?
I took a few math intensive Astronomy classes in college...[:p]
So I'm good up to the Naval caliber guns[:0]0 -
Winchester White Box is good enough for me. 0 -
You know, I used to knock the 9mm as being, "Too small," or, "Inadequate." Then I made the mistake of saying such things around my grandfather. He brought up the following point that really made me think, "You think the 9mm parabellum isn't lethal enough? There are thousands of dead GIs buried across Europe that would argue otherwise." I think he makes a damn good point. 0 -
I was brought up learning that the main objective in battle is to wound as many as possible. If you wound one you take at least 2 possibly three out of the battle, the wounded and the ones it takes to carry him. I want to STOP an attacker. Dead is stopped. Rule #1. Bring enough gun. 0 -
I really hate it when someone asks for advice on a cartridge for a new gun they just got and instead of answering the question people have to chime in with boasts about their beloved 45 and how nothing the poster can buy for his 9mm will ever make a sufficient cartridge. We know you love the 45. If that's all you have to contribute then please find a 9mm vs 45acp thread to go post on.
The original poster didn't ask if you thought he should buy a 45, he asked what 9mm ammunition people can recommend as good for carry.
In my book the 45acp devotees have recently edged out the Glock fanboys for the title of "Most Consistently Annoying Group Posting on Gun Forums Today".0 -
The 9MM is plenty enough gun to stop a man, most bad info comes from the Military who shoot FMJ ammo and it simply shoots right through the perp. I like Corbon 115 GR + P JHP. Its a great 9MM cartridge is as the Federal Hydra-Shok Ammo. The 9MM is carried by more Military's than any other sidearm in the world. This says alot for it.BTW if you got a P-85 MK II for that price you done very well. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by dano
quote:Originally posted by drjew
quote:Originally posted by dano
Any premium self-defense 9mm round will serve you nicely.
As others might have mentioned, it's not so much the caliber of the round, as it is shot placement. [;)]
BTW...absolutely nothing wrong with a 9mm round for self-defense. I've used um for years, and I have no complaints at all. [^]
How many bad guys have you had to stop with it?
More than I care to share with you (or others) about. [:o)]
Can you share just one ? Personally I seriously doubt you have shot one person with a 9mm let alone TWO people which would thus qualify your statement of "more".0 -
quote:Originally posted by eboydell
Well, after that tongue-lashing, I will never mention .45 acp's any more. And that goes for the rest of you .45 "nuts"! Let us promise now that we will always respect the subject that the original poster places online. Oh! I really want to get that new Kimber .45...I love those laser handles![;)]
Don't worry. There is hope if you are a 45 "nut". It begins by admitting that there are other effective handgun cartridges in the world. I know this is a difficult concept and some might consider it blasphemy but it is the truth no matter how much the Church of JMB tries to suppress it. [:D]0 -
quote:What is the "Church of JMB"?
They worship Saint John Moses Browning0 -
Makes almost no difference which round you use.
Most of the "defense" 9mm+P rounds have similar velocities and bullet designs. They're all good, and most of the differences between them lie in marketing hype, not in terminal ballistics.
I wouldn't say a 9mm is quite as good as a .45 (which has the prime benefit of "bigger hole"), but the 9mm is still PLENTY good. .45 has long been over-hyped with 9mm equally maligned.
Consider, a 124 grain 9mm +P will give you 1250 fps muzzle velocity from a 4" barrel.
Compare that to the 1450 fps you'd get from a .357 magnum with a nearly identical 125 grain bullet, and the 9mm +P gives you fully 85% of the velocity and 75% of the muzzle energy as a .357, supposedly THE best pistol manstopper there is. That's from a gun with nearly three times the capacity, and the ability to deliver faster followup shots.
To the one who was telling stories about .45 bouncing off windshields, with 9mm going through them, I will add another story. At the gun club in Boston, one of the instructors showed me plastic candlestick bowling pins they were shooting at a "pin match". (In New England they have these thin bowling pins and use a small ball).
This guy was using 9mms and he wasn't consistently knocking over the pins, even though he thought he was getting clean hits. Turns out that (unlike with the .45s), some of his 9mm hits were shooting CLEAN THROUGH the hollow plastic bowling pins leaving entry and exit holes!
Lastly, I have seen with my own eyes a case where a guy was shot with a 9mm. Bullet entered under his chest under his right armpit, passed through his right lung, then his heart, then his left lung, then exited his chest. (Talk about hitting a "vital organ"). Needless to say, that was a "stop".0 -
When in doubt, empty the mag, if they aren't on the ground, reload and do it again.
Can't speak from personal experience as I've never fired a 9 in anger but would think rule #1 applies in a gunfight. Have a firearm. The bigger the better but then a 9 isn't the worst you could have either. More of an issue of shot placement than anything else. Eskimos take polar bears with a 22 Hornet. White man probably wouldn't dream of trying anything less than a 300 WinMag. Proves the point of shot placement.
Hope you never end up with personal experience in these matters.0 -
We are all guilty of taking some one else's word on subjects like bullets and cartridges. Let's face it, there are hundreds of "experts" out there with different opinions. It's true the .45 is one of the all time best defense rounds. I doubt most have any actual experiences with various guns or ammo. We depend on the people who have access to the equipment to test and evaluate and report to us. But if you read actual shooting results and took that as your only source to make your choice you would all be toting .357's, because it beats hell out of the .45ACP. Fact is, a lot of people have been killed with all manner of calibers besides the .45ACP. The .32 ACP was once the most popular hide out choice of a lot of bad guys who really did kill people and expected to be attacked any day all day. They also carried .45s. I once would change my gun and caliber every time something new came out in Guns and Ammo with the usual write up about stopping power and muzzle energy, blah blah blah. But whatever you believe or who you believe is up to you. Carry whatever you want. Just don't believe all of the "experts" all the time. I once overheard a guy say, "that .22 Hornet will kick the hell out of you." Not I own one and I know it kicks about like a .22 Long Rifle but somebody told that guy that and he repeated it like he had the experience. I knew he was full of digested bull feed but the guy he was talking to didn't. One shot from a 9mm might put one guy down like a sledgehammer while another guy might take a dozen and keep on ticking. It's placement, body mass, attitude, intoxication, etc. that matter. I have had all calibers of handguns including .45s and .44s. Most were too hard to carry so what good were they as a defense weapon? I started with a full size Colt, then a Lightweight Commander (damn I wish I had that one back), then an Officers ACP. I always went back to my .38 snub due to the first rule "Have a gun." Here's hoping none of you ever have to use what you carry but your confidence in your weapon of choice and knowing how to handle it will be the deciding factor. You can carry a $1500 Ultimagnum 600 Nitro and some guy with a Potmetal .22 that cost $15 will kill you. Attitude, not magnitude. 0 -
Well, I appreciate all the information. I think I have learned that the +P with a reputable JHP will do well. Like I said at the begining, I never intended to own a 9mm as I like the 357 and the 40 cal. I have owned MK IV series 80 Colt in the past and sold it do to money issues and have regreted that for the past 8 years, but a man has to live with what he has on hand. I went to the ranch today and fired 200 rounds downrange with winchester target ammo from Walmart which is just ball FMJ and had no hick-ups, stopages or slow cycling. I lucked out in my mind as total price with state taxes was $317.00 for a brand new Ruger P85 MKII never fired and auctioned off after being in sellers safety deposit box for a decade. It is a nice little piece I think. Better than my S&WS 686 357 or Browning HP in 40 cal, no. But absolutely worth the price and I can now say, yes, I own or have owned a 9mm. Thanks for all the advice guys, I came out of this thread educated on question, and with a little more insight into how people downright love the old 45. It's almost like being in a Baptist Church being preached at about Hell. These guys are serious about the conviction of the 45. I hope to someday buy another 1911, but when I bought mine in the mid 90's, I paid a little over 500.00 for it. Now day's it is a little steeper for one of those. But I understand the conviction, they are awesome weapons.
Thanks to all of those that posted and educated me.0 -
CORBONS...CORBONS.....CORBONS.... 0 -
O.K., Let me give you some "scientific" results. I have personaly witnessed a "classified" video which showed ballistic testing on....well, cadavers. People who donated themselves for "science". Of the 9mm tested, the one that performed best overall was the heavier grain Cor-bon with Speer Gold dots and Eldorado Starfires coming in close behind. (I CAN'T REMEMBER THE EXACT GRAIN BULLET. FORGIVE ME)The wound channel from the cor-bon was impressive by 9mm standards. The hydra-shocks tended to get clogged from clothing, especially denim or heavy jackets, preventing them from fully expanding. They just went right through, not causing much terminal damage unless hitting bone. For those of you who doubt me, 13 years of Law Enforcement has given me the chance to meet people in "high places". But, like it has been stated before, a well placed shot to the cranial vault will give you terminal results. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by wartiger
O.K., Let me give you some "scientific" results. I have personaly witnessed a "classified" video which showed ballistic testing on....well, cadavers. People who donated themselves for "science". Of the 9mm tested, the one that performed best overall was the heavier grain Cor-bon with Speer Gold dots and Eldorado Starfires coming in close behind. (I CAN'T REMEMBER THE EXACT GRAIN BULLET. FORGIVE ME)The wound channel from the cor-bon was impressive by 9mm standards. The hydra-shocks tended to get clogged from clothing, especially denim or heavy jackets, preventing them from fully expanding. They just went right through, not causing much terminal damage unless hitting bone. For those of you who doubt me, 13 years of Law Enforcement has given me the chance to meet people in "high places". But, like it has been stated before, a well placed shot to the cranial vault will give you terminal results.
ASK ANY COP 10 yrs ago when the 9 milly was it and they would say the same...hydo is tras comared to the corbon...0 -
Personaly, give me a Glock .40 loaded with Cor-bons. I have bet my life on this combo for the past 10 years. I did carry a Ruger P-97 in 45 ACP for 2 of those years and would do so again. The Ruger is a fine duty weapon, if kept clean. It doesn't like to be dirty. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by wartiger
Personaly, give me a Glock .40 loaded with Cor-bons. I have bet my life on this combo for the past 10 years. I did carry a Ruger P-97 in 45 ACP for 2 of those years and would do so again. The Ruger is a fine duty weapon, if kept clean. It doesn't like to be dirty.
hmmmm glock 40. with corbons....nasty nasty combo...good nasty that is[;)][;)]0 -
I chose this combo for two reasons....reliability of the Glock and the video of the Cor-bon in action. Very small entrance hole, about 2 1/2" exit, after shattering sternum, rib cage and severing spine, exploding about 3 inches of spinal column out the back. Graphic? Yes.
Disturbing? Only for the bad guy. Very devastating round. I was shocked.0 -
Well, if we are going there. I have 18 years in LE. 14 of those as a weapons instructor. Also have several other instructor certs including but not limited to: CQB, edged weapons, and weapons retention. By the time I got into it the 9mm wasn't even considered as a viable LE duty weapon. .40 S&W or better. I carried my personal GLOCK 23 since they became legal in South Carolina (thanks to Jim McClary(SLED) and Jay Long(SCHP Governors team). I own several. different brands and different calibers. Right now I carry my 23 with SPEER GOLD DOT 165 grain. I carried 147 grain Hydra Shoks with my Beretta boat anchor. I currently prefer my Sig .357 SIG. The Miami shootout with the FBI and the two bad guys kinda soured me on the 9mm's and .38's. Hey, to each his own. 0 -
What's your take on the .357 sig? Alot of guys around here are switching to them and the Georgia State Patrol just went to the .45 GAP. What are the ballistic advantages, if any, with the 357 over the 40? 0 -
wuchakie quote:I really hate it when someone asks for advice on a cartridge for a new gun they just got and instead of answering the question people have to chime in with boasts about their beloved 45 and how nothing the poster can buy for his 9mm will ever make a sufficient cartridge. We know you love the 45. If that's all you have to contribute then please find a 9mm vs 45acp thread to go post on.
The original poster didn't ask if you thought he should buy a 45, he asked what 9mm ammunition people can recommend as good for carry.
In my book the 45acp devotees have recently edged out the Glock fanboys for the title of "Most Consistently Annoying Group Posting on Gun Forums Today".
...Know what I hate wachakie? I really hate it when someone asks for advice on a cartridge for a new gun they just got and instead of answering the question nubie people have to chime in with absolutely NO answer to the question at all, Nada, Zilch!
...And how nothing the poster can ask/say will pry an answer of any sort from the mouth of the nube! We know you love to attempt to argue/flame longtime members WITHOUT adding an answer to the thread at all in an attempt to show your prowess at attempting to belittle members in good standing...who are just having a good time.
...If that's all you have to contribute then please find a "no answer required" thread to go post on.
...The original poster didn't ask if you thought he should recieve NO answer at all, OR an attack on members, but, you saw fit to do just that; no answer to his question, and an attack on members instead.
...In my book the "no-answering/want to argue/want to only attack member" devotees have recently edged out the intelligent, mostly VERY helpful members for the title of "Most Consistently Annoying Group Posting on GunBroker Today".
...Try giving an answer to the original posters question new guy, BEFORE spouting off at members who DO give answers and have a little light hearted fun too. IF you have been around long enough you would know that the 45 vs 9mm, semi vs revolver, which 1911 is best,...are ALL topice that have been beaten to a pulp here...and there are ALWAYS people who will "lighten-up" said subjects with some mild ragging...it's called a "guy thing" among men.
...Similar to when you (well, maybe not you per say) and some buddies are out hunting and one whacks the top of their head half off on a low hanging limb and the rest of his buddies rag and laugh, and in no uncertain terms telling him how DUMB he was by doing that..no matter they all love each other...just a "guy thing", unless your one of the "new metro type" PC guys??
...Try not reading ANY of the posts that may upset your sensibilities, you will not need as many meds that way; and if you must post in a thread...YOU might try giving an answer to the original posters question(s) instead of a NO answer response that attacks and attempts to belittle members...[;)]0
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