Another police taser death...hits close to my home
Comment: I live in the City of Coral Gables, a small municipality that borders Miami. The main campus of the University of Miami is located in Coral Gables...not Miami. The condo units where this incident took place sell for around $500K. A lot of UM students rent condos here...the affluent ones whose parents pay. Lots of keggers and parties at this condo. I live less than 1 mile from this complex and the UM. Wanted to mention this since this is not a high crime area and the real estate is pricey.
See pic at end of article.
Man who died in Gables Tasing identified
Posted on Fri, Jan. 11, 2008
BY DAVID OVALLE
Coral Gables and Miami-Dade police on Friday investigate the death of a man who died at an apartment complex near the University of Miami while in custody.
He was identified Friday afternoon as Xavier Jones, 29.
Jones had been disruptive at a party and resisted arrest, according to Miami-Dade police, whose homicide bureau is investigating the death.
About 2 a.m., police officers responded to a call about a scuffle at University Inn Condominium, 1280 S. Alahambra Cir., near the University of Miami. The building is across the street from the university and borders on U.S. 1.
After the man became disruptive inside the apartment, a security guard attempted to remove him from the property. The confrontation spilled outside.
Miami-Dade police said Jones displayed ''aggressive and combative behavior'' so a police officer used a Taser stun gun to restrain him.
After the discharge, Jones became unresponsive, and paramedics took him to Doctor's Hospital in Coral Gables, where he was pronounced dead.
A cause of death will be determined by the Miami-Dade medical examiner's office.
Note the palm trees...no snow!!![:D]
See pic at end of article.
Man who died in Gables Tasing identified
Posted on Fri, Jan. 11, 2008
BY DAVID OVALLE
Coral Gables and Miami-Dade police on Friday investigate the death of a man who died at an apartment complex near the University of Miami while in custody.
He was identified Friday afternoon as Xavier Jones, 29.
Jones had been disruptive at a party and resisted arrest, according to Miami-Dade police, whose homicide bureau is investigating the death.
About 2 a.m., police officers responded to a call about a scuffle at University Inn Condominium, 1280 S. Alahambra Cir., near the University of Miami. The building is across the street from the university and borders on U.S. 1.
After the man became disruptive inside the apartment, a security guard attempted to remove him from the property. The confrontation spilled outside.
Miami-Dade police said Jones displayed ''aggressive and combative behavior'' so a police officer used a Taser stun gun to restrain him.
After the discharge, Jones became unresponsive, and paramedics took him to Doctor's Hospital in Coral Gables, where he was pronounced dead.
A cause of death will be determined by the Miami-Dade medical examiner's office.
Note the palm trees...no snow!!![:D]
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I'm guessing booze and/or drugs had something to do with it. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by sav99
I'm guessing booze and/or drugs had something to do with it.
You a detective? Don0 -
i know it depends on each case, but tazers are a fact of life now...if the cops didnt have a tazer they may have pulled a gun and the result might have been the same . at least with a tazer you have to be unlucky to die.... 0 -
quote:Originally posted by sav99
I'm guessing booze and/or drugs had something to do with it.
Couldn't have been the 10,000 volt shock. Yea, his fault probably.0 -
quote:Originally posted by dcon12
quote:Originally posted by sav99
I'm guessing booze and/or drugs had something to do with it.
You a detective? Don
Care to make a wager drugs weren't a factor?0 -
quote:Originally posted by dcon12
quote:Originally posted by sav99
I'm guessing booze and/or drugs had something to do with it.
You a detective? Don
No Don, I'm not a detective.0 -
quote:Originally posted by LKB3rd
Couldn't have been the 10,000 volt shock. Yea, his fault probably.Can you explain for us exactly what "volt" means and how many of these little devils it takes to cause death?
You've also made it clear you don't know anymore about the Taser than about principles of electricity. Your 10,000 volt statement isn't even in the ballpark.0 -
most likely the man had a pre-existing medical condition ( heart ) that was made worse by drugs, alcohol, stimulated and excited state and then to top it off a jolt of electricty in his body. 0 -
I think law enforcement has been gettig a little carried away with tasing people. It seems like it's the latest fad to just tase them now a days, instead of taking them down to the ground physicaly. If you have a couple of cops at the scene and they can't take a drunk down then they shouldn't be cops. For a non-lethal weapon...it sure is burying alot of people. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by watrulookinat
I think law enforcement has been gettig a little carried away with tasing people. It seems like it's the latest fad to just tase them now a days, instead of taking them down to the ground physicaly. If you have a couple of cops at the scene and they can't take a drunk down then they shouldn't be cops. For a non-lethal weapon...it sure is burying alot of people.
When you fight/wrestle someone to the ground the odds of injury skyrocket above the odds when a taser is used. The taser's purpose is to disable a combative person, a few seconds at a time, in order to avoid having to wrestle/fight them into submission which is guarenteed injuries.
It's not about whether or not the cops can take someone in a fight, it's about avoiding a fight and therfore avoiding injuries to cops and suspects. I've been tasered, and I'll take that anyday over an arse whoopin'.
By the way, there is only one case in which the taser was proven to be the cause of death. That was an instance in which the person was continuously shocked for over 2 minutes straight. Every other case of death by taser (as the media sells it) has been proven to have a cause of death other than the se of taser. Most generally it is a heart condition.0 -
quote:Originally posted by LKB3rd
Couldn't have been the 10,000 volt shock. Yea, his fault probably.
Try 50,000 volts.....
Far more important than the voltage is the Amps.0 -
quote:Originally posted by watrulookinat
If you have a couple of cops at the scene and they can't take a drunk down then they shouldn't be cops.
For a non-lethal weapon...it sure is burying alot of people.
That's an often misunderstood point.
The idea behind the Taser, as with OC, isn't that it's there in case the cops think they might not be able to win a fight with someone. It's used to get the person in handcuffs and in jail with the least chance of anyone being injured, including the suspect.
If someone displays the intention to physically resist arrest and no Taser is available, the only option is to fight them. Even without considering the cops safety, this poses a very high risk of the person being injured in some way. This is why when strictly physical force is used you see a literal dog pile of cops on one guy. It's not that it took this many to whip him, it's because there's logically a much lower risk of the person being injured if they're literally overwhelmed than if only one takes them on.
If someone displays intention to resist with a cop who's carrying a Taser they'll be warned that if they don't come along peaceably it will be used on them. Most end up going to jail without any further problem, meaning no risk at all of injuring them. If they continue to display resistance the Taser is used, their muscles are temporarily disabled, they're handcuffed without having to use physical force and they go to jail without little risk of injury.
Injuries are the inevitble result of a fight. The idea is that if cops never have to engage in physical struggles with suspects there'll be no injuries to deal with in the aftermath.
As for the statement that the Taser "sure is burying alot of people", show us proof of this. I'm talking about doctor's reports, not media BS hype trying to sell advertising.0 -
quote:Originally posted by Rack Ops
quote:Originally posted by LKB3rd
Couldn't have been the 10,000 volt shock. Yea, his fault probably.
Try 50,000 volts.....
Far more important than the voltage is the Amps.
...and an X26 Taser delivers something like 2.1 milliamps.0 -
I will also venture a guess that when a 29 year old man makes the conscious decision to go fighting with the cops, he somewhere in the back of his mind knows that he might just get tazzed. 0 -
My son was TASERed and still kicked the deputy's butt.
By the way, there is no such thing as a Taser. It is TASER, an acronym for Thomas Alva Swift Electric Rifle.
Accordingly, it is impossible to "tase" anyone.
"Don't Thomas Alva Swift Electric me, bro!"0 -
There have been over 245 taser deaths, according to Amnesty International.
IMO, cops seem to automatically reach for the Taser.
As the situation escalates, cops need to increase the amount of force.
In the "old days" (prior to the Taser), cops would try to physically subdue a subject. If they can't physically overpower the subject...then it was either pepper spray OR billy club.
Now, it's Taser time...no matter the threat level.
We've all seen cops tasering people for simply "disobeying" or questioning a LEO. That's just wrong.0 -
Note the palm trees...no snow!!
And all that sunshine? Also note all the GREEN vegitation...[:D][:D]0 -
People have died subsequent to the adminstration of the TASER, just as people have died after being sprayed with OC. In the vast majority of the cases, the death was due to another cause, and not the use of the TASER or OC spray.
I reckon in "the old days," people died after being struck by a baton or a sap, or after being physically overpowered.
If someone watches Jay Leno, then goes to sleep and dies in his sleep, did watching Jay Leno cause his death? Or if a man enjoys marital relations with his wife, and then dies, is the death due to such activity?
Just because one event follows another, doesn't mean the latter event was due to the former, and to make such an assumption is a serious expression of ignorance.0 -
quote:Originally posted by dolfan
There have been over 245 taser deaths, according to Amnesty International.
IMO, cops seem to automatically reach for the Taser.
As the situation escalates, cops need to increase the amount of force.
In the "old days" (prior to the Taser), cops would try to physically subdue a subject. If they can't physically overpower the subject...then it was either pepper spray OR billy club.
The Taser comes before the baton in the levels of use of force.0 -
quote:Originally posted by nunn
My son was TASERed and still kicked the deputy's butt.
I hope by that, you not saying your proud of his behavior.0 -
quote:
quote:
Originally posted by nunn
My son was TASERed and still kicked the deputy's butt.
I hope by that, you not saying your proud of his behavior.
I reckon you missed my updates on son Mark. He is mentally ill, definitely bipolar, and he has exhibited some signs of paranoid schizophrenia.
He was having a paranoid episode and hid in the restroom of a convenience store. He ignored the clerk's order to come out, so the clerk called the Sheriff's office. The poor deputy did not know what he was walking into. It is NOT a good idea to corner a crazy person in a confined space like a restroom. It is especially a bad idea, when that crazy person sees all law enforcement as the enemy who will stop at nothing to put him back into a hospital.
I feel badly for the deputy who was injured during the struggle, but in my opinion, he should have gotten some help before contacting Mark. But then, I know Mark, and the deputy did not.
Proud? No, not really. I was impressed by his prowess, especially in light of the fact that I have, many times, had to physically overpower Mark and take him down by myself, and I am not particularly strong. I am distressed and worried about Mark, since he is still in custody awaiting a mental competency hearing, and he won't call me to let me know what is going on.0 -
David,
God bless you and Mark.0 -
quote:Originally posted by dolfan
There have been over 245 taser deaths, according to Amnesty International.
Actually it is more than 280, but it is also important to add that even Amnesty International does not claim that a TASER killed. They state "...more than 280 individuals in the United States have died after being struck by police TASERs"0 -
How many people died last year after eating dinner? 0 -
David...... I recall your posts about Mark, however I did'nt know he was your only son. The wording made it sound, to me, like it was a good thing the duputy lost the fight.
I hope he is able to get his life back on track soon. Were you able to recover his car and property he had stored in it?0 -
Mark is not my only son. There is also Travis, who is not so afflicted and who is now a National Guardsman after getting out of the Army.
I still don't know about Mark's car and personal effects.0 -
Many suspects also died in custody prior to the common use of tasers.
Most people have heard of these deaths from what is called (I think) "excited delirium" or something like that. We received some training on that just prior to my retiring from LE. This is where the restrained person dies while in police custody just from being restrained while in a highly agitated or excited state. Many of these incidents were mis-portrayed in the media to be "death due to excessive force by police"
These type deaths have also happened to people when store security guards and bar bouncers restrained (or tried to remove) a disruptive person.
People that have "serious issues with police behavior" in "general", will always try to place the blame on police. It doesn't matter if they use their hands, a baton or sap, chemical or electrical weapons or a firearm.
Yes, some police have used excessive force at times. BUT, the great majority do their best with an increasingly difficult job and do it well. But there are hundreds of cases of less than lethal force used legally and with full justification on a daily basis in this country. Some of these will end up with the suspect or even the responding police dying several times each year.
The suspect can choose to act in a civil manner or not.
The police officer doesn't get to choose which calls he wants to respond to or not respond to. He has to respond where sent. In many areas, he may have to respond to several potentially dangerous situations in a single shift. He has a right to go home safely to his family at the end of the day as long as he properly applies the training provided for him by his department. He shouldn't have to risk his own safety more than necessary when there are other options at his disposal. The suspect makes his choice and the police respond to it.
If you don't want to get struck, sprayed, zapped, or piled on by a bunch of police, you should generally follow his directions and then take it up with his supervisor and/or your attorney and the judge at a later time.0 -
quote:Originally posted by Rack Ops
quote:Originally posted by LKB3rd
Couldn't have been the 10,000 volt shock. Yea, his fault probably.
Try 50,000 volts.....
Far more important than the voltage is the Amps.
taser x26 has 25000 volt and generates .003 joules no it was not a taser. Defibulator? generates .100 joules0 -
quote:Originally posted by redhead71
quote:Originally posted by Rack Ops
quote:Originally posted by LKB3rd
Couldn't have been the 10,000 volt shock. Yea, his fault probably.
Try 50,000 volts.....
Far more important than the voltage is the Amps.
taser x26 has 25000 volt and generates .003 joules no it was not a taser. Defibulator? generates .100 joules at lowest setting and yes that hurts like hell from experince and both0 -
Posted - 01/11/2008 : 8:05:29 PM
I think law enforcement has been gettig a little carried away with tasing people. It seems like it's the latest fad to just tase them now a days, instead of taking them down to the ground physicaly. If you have a couple of cops at the scene and they can't take a drunk down then they shouldn't be cops. For a non-lethal weapon...it sure is burying alot of people.
Well it's pretty obvious that you are not a cop and have never done the work! The Tazer is a tool, just like all of the other equipment that officers carry. Compliance by this guy would have kept him alive, not the fact that the Tazer was used. Go to your local PD and take a hit from one, then make a conscious arguement[;)]0
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