Religion question.
I am not trying to rile people up or start a flame war.
I am non-religious but grew up with a Christian background and left it.
My question is......
There was nothing, then God created everything. Why??????
Was he bored? What is the reasoning given (if any) for creating anything? He knows everything, so before he created it/us he knew most of us would end up in hell, so why bother?
Is there a reason given in the Bible for creation? Boredom? Loneliness?
I am non-religious but grew up with a Christian background and left it.
My question is......
There was nothing, then God created everything. Why??????
Was he bored? What is the reasoning given (if any) for creating anything? He knows everything, so before he created it/us he knew most of us would end up in hell, so why bother?
Is there a reason given in the Bible for creation? Boredom? Loneliness?
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quote:Originally posted by Classic095
It still says, "I have seen god Face to Face": so are you saying that is a lie?? or a misinterpratation?? If so that just weakens the validity of the story.
I'm saying that Jacob said it figuratively for emphasis to relate his experience in seeing the working of GOD in his interaction with the angel and receiving the blessing. You can see that can't you?.
Gen. 32:30 "Face" 6440 in the Hebrew dictionary.
H6440
#1508;#1468;#1504;#1497;#1501;
pa#770;ni#770;ym
paw-neem'
Plural (but always used as a singular) of an unused noun (#1508;#1468;#1504;#1492; pa#770;neh, paw-neh'; from 6437); the face (as the part that turns); used in a great variety of applications (literally and figuratively)0 -
RCRXS OLD LADY: you got it.. God didnt need man, Man needed a God, so he invented one..[:D][}:)] As man has been doing since the beginning of time. Gods come and go as the demand for them wanes..Man will continue to invent gods, he needs them to complete their vanity. 0 -
What do you guys think about the winchester sx3. i want to buy one for this coming season? My dad has the sx2 and says its great.
[?]0 -
I mis-posted, I should have said "and conversely, people need the Devil to blame for the negative variables." 0 -
quote:Originally posted by sav99
Gen 32:24 And Jacob was left alone; and there wrestled a man with him until the breaking of the day.
Gen 32:25 And when he saw that he prevailed not against him, he touched the hollow of his thigh; and the hollow of Jacob's thigh was out of joint, as he wrestled with him.
Gen 32:26 And he said, Let me go, for the day breaketh. And he said, I will not let thee go, except thou bless me.
Gen 32:27 And he said unto him, What is thy name? And he said, Jacob.
Gen 32:28 And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed.
Gen 32:29 And Jacob asked him, and said, Tell me, I pray thee, thy name. And he said, Wherefore is it that thou dost ask after my name? And he blessed him there.
Gen 32:30 And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.
Gen 32:31 And as he passed over Penuel the sun rose upon him, and he halted upon his thigh.
Gen 32:32
Gen. 32:30 "Face" 6440 in the Hebrew dictionary.Therefore the children of Israel eat not of the sinew which shrank, which is upon the hollow of the thigh, unto this day: because he touched the hollow of Jacob's thigh in the sinew that shrank.
H6440
#1508;#1468;#1504;#1497;#1501;
pa#770;ni#770;ym
paw-neem'of GOD in his interaction with the angel including receiving the blessing. If Jacob were saying face to face with GOD Himself, it would be non sequitur, given the proceeding passages. There are only two present, Jacob and the angel. The Father is not mentioned as being there with the two who were wrestling.
Your source must have accide
Plural (but always used as a singular) of an unused noun (#1508;#1468;#1504;#1492; pa#770;neh, paw-neh'; from 6437); the face (as the part that turns); used in a great variety of applications (literally and figuratively)
Jacob was talking about seeing the working ntally taken this verse out of context by not revealing the proceeding verses which shows clearly that it was in fact Jacob and an angel.
you refuse to accept the factual logic of us athiests, why on earth should we listen to your stories?0 -
athiests: we don't believe gods, divine beings, etc. exist because of X, Y, Z, and blah blah blah.
religious person: (tells a story about some dude wrestling, from the bible, of which the athiests don't believe any of it)
athiests: oh! gee! wait a minute, now we think your stories are true all of a sudden! ...aahh, who cares about XYZ blah blah blah. let's forget all about that silly stuff. what were we saying a minute ago? I forgot. Praise jesus.0 -
"you refuse to accept the factual logic of us athiests, why on earth should we listen to your stories?"
It's cool Buschmaster. I won't post anything else on this thread.[8D]0 -
I'm just saying do you really expect that to mean anything to us unbelievers? or what are you trying to get across? might as well tell us about green eggs and ham. 0 -
I wish Sav99 and Buschmaster would continue. You both are giving me an education. And that's not meant to be flippant. To back out now means....what? Getting tired of the diatribe, or afraid a point may be made you can't counter?
If one is true in his/her beliefs [Divinity/Athiesm] there'll be no changing it.
Hope to hear from y'all real soon.
Yours in openmindedness, I remain:
Joe0 -
givette: It is hard to carry on a debate when the questions are all answered with "Because" "I believe" and "The bible says so" Same answers, never any facts..Its especially hard when people refuse to accept discrepencies that are in black and white . Things can be only one way or another, there cannot be two distinct answers to the same question. one of the answers or statements has to be false..
For example, which of the following is true??
6. God is everywhere present, sees and knows all things
Prov 15:3/ Ps 139:7-10/ Job 34:22,21
God is not everywhere present, neither sees nor knows all
things
Gen 11:5/ Gen 18:20,21/ Gen 3:8
One statement is a lie, but which one?? Some will try to explain away these discrepencies as mis-interpretation but they are word for word from their bible..So the final answer from them is "Faith" which answers nothing..0 -
quote:Originally posted by Classic095
givette: It is hard to carry on a debate when the questions are all answered with "Because" "I believe" and "The bible says so" Same answers, never any facts..Its especially hard when people refuse to accept discrepencies that are in black and white . Things can be only one way or another, there cannot be two distinct answers to the same question. one of the answers or statements has to be false..
For example, which of the following is true??
6. God is everywhere present, sees and knows all things
Prov 15:3/ Ps 139:7-10/ Job 34:22,21
God is not everywhere present, neither sees nor knows all
things
Gen 11:5/ Gen 18:20,21/ Gen 3:8
One statement is a lie, but which one?? Some will try to explain away these discrepencies as mis-interpretation but they are word for word from their bible..So the final answer from them is "Faith" which answers nothing..
Larry,
You've hit upon the very problem, but don't see it as two fold.
For believers, it is all about "faith" without "proof", and for the non-believer, it's all about "proof" without "faith".
A man with no "faith" cannot accpet the word of God without "proof", and a man with "faith", needs no "proof".
The thing that really makes it an argument is, neither side is willing to accept the others belief or position without insults and belittling. I just don't understand why we can't respect each others position without insulting the other side as ignorant, stupid, superstious, lost, evil, immoral or any other of the insults each side likes to throw at each other. Why not just say, I don't believe as you do, but you have the right to believe as you wish, and so do I.
We just can't seem to get there can we? Each side want to assume the position of superiorty and belittle the other. Sad!0 -
Danny: So far its been a good debate for the most part.. My theory is not to accept things without question.. We dont accept things without question in our daily lives so why should one accept things without question in their spiritual lives?? It is because they have been taught not to question.. To question is to release the strangle hold that those who wish to control us have on us.. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by Classic095
Danny: So far its been a good debate for the most part.. My theory is not to accept things without question.. We dont accept things without question in our daily lives so why should one accept things without question in their spiritual lives?? It is because they have been taught not to question.. To question is to release the strangle hold that those who wish to control us have on us..
This is where you don't understand that there is no question in the believer's spiritual life, and many cannot/will not accept it, or have no understanding of it.
That is fine as long as you respect and allow those who do to believe in their spiritual life as they wish and by the right they are given under the constitution. If you do this, then you can argue the point, but not the right to believe. And, I hope you would do it without the insults or belittling that so many on both sides tend to resort to.
You and I do not believe the same. That being said, I consider you a good man and a friend, and I would never intentionally insult you or deny you your beliefs. I think you will return the favor.
The main point of my post was to try to understand each side. If we ever do that, we can let each other exist in peace without personal attacks or degradation of one another. Something that seems to be an impossible thing on Gunbroker.0 -
Sav at the same time you read both too deeply and not deeply enough into my post. After reading the last several posts in this thread I feel compelled to reiterate my point with some changes which you may find more acceptable. First let me pull a couple of quotes to help clarify.
quote:
rcrxs "Some people can just accept that there are things we cannot explain as part of the mystery of life, and that someday, maybe, someone will be able to show why these things happen." ??? Does this statement refer to the believer or unbeliever? Seems like a stronger reference to the believer. If it refers to the atheist, I suppose they hope to get their mystery answers before they die. quote:
BuschM "I'm just saying do you really expect that to mean anything to us unbelievers? (NO) or what are you trying to get across? might as well tell us about green eggs and ham."
Now for you Sav, again, metaphorically speaking with edits...
People give value to a pearl based on it's beauty and rarity. Even though I love tigers and will continue to try to enlighten them, a TIGER will never understand the value of a pearl. It is incapable, no matter how much it is told or how hard it tries, even if it inadvertently lounges in a den full of pearls. Therefore the TIGER would argue that pearls have no value. The TIGER may even go so far as to contend that if it has never seen one, pearls don't really exist. For that TIGER, they essentially don't. For those other animals who have willingly experienced or understood the beauty and value of a pearl... they exist, even if never seen with the naked eye.
It seems most people who want to argue against Christianity are more interested in convincing themselves that what they really know down deep isn't true.....
I never intended to suggest that you give up. Maybe only to adjust your position of delivery. The real prize is found in those watching from the sidelines...0 -
I get this question all the time.
My response is, I was not a believer before my cancer diagnosis, and my diagnosis did not change anything. At the time of my treatment, I had at least 2 Baptist prayer groups, at least three Wiccans, 200 Catholic nuns, and a Shinto in Japan all making prayers for me.
To which god do I thank for my recovery?
I'm not discounting their efforts, I believe in karmha. But I do not believe that any one religion has the corner on any higher ground is concerned.0 -
This whole religious thing gets so old, so tiresome, so boring.....Each refuses to see the other side OR if one has been on the other side and left still refuses to acknowledge the other side may have, in their eyes, valid beliefs...
Why not let each other believe as they see fit? without saying you are going to hell or you belief in myths?...why not just let each other believe whatever the hell they want??? why push it?...
Why do I have to believe what you believe or what you want me to believe thinking it will do me good?...stop pushing it, stop saying I will go to hell...so what?????????????????????? what concern is it of yours????...
and if I dont believe, why do you insist I am less a person than you?...why do you think I have less morals than you?...why do you think I am automatically wrong?...why do I have to believe as you do?...
what is so right about you that is so wrong about me?..0 -
Amen, BR.... 0 -
Ok, you asked BR so if you will indulge me briefly......
Why do you have to believe as "I" do??? you don't, but in order to have an eternal place in heaven, you have to believe as God says...... It really is that simple.
Why don't you let people believe what they want??? Because IF I see that the bridge is out and don't try to stop someone from running off the end of the road into the river, I'm not acting responsibly.
Why the hell do I care where you go??? Because except for God's Grace extended to me, that's where I would be going so I'm trying to be faithful to His commands to share His promises and Blessings with others and hopefully they won't go to hell either.
thanks for listening, er, reading. I really hope you can hear my hopes are all about YOU, it ain't about me or MY religion, it's all about what God has for you that you might be missing.
Please indulge me just a little more, I forgot the last part of your thread, something about me being better than you...... heaven's NO. As I said earlier, I'm not better than anyone, I'm a sinner saved by His Grace and that's all. NOT believing what I believe doesn't make us anything but different..... Not believing in what God says makes you lost and destined for eternal separation from Him.
I keep seeing these comments about letting people believe what they want and who cares, what diff, which god do I credit for healing, etc/??? It's really quite simple, the ONLY true and living God is Jehovah and whichever church you use to worship HIM is ok as long as they don't wash out the critical elements or doctrinal truths. It's know where you go, it's WHO you know.
thanks again for letting me join in.0 -
Amen Beth. I don't think God would want someone to believe in him because they were beat into it, and it wouldn't be real anyway. I leave belief in whatever one chooses to the individual. I'm not God, and I'm not going to judge them. I just wish to be left alone to my beliefs without being insulted or belittled for them.[;)] 0 -
Classic: givette here. Thanks for coming back. You see, I'm interested in all the pros and cons that have been presented here. You, and Dheff, and Sav/Busch/BR et.al. have weight and merit here. Following this topic has been my gain. Not my loss.
That you all are, lets say, "complete" in your convictions makes reading this all the more worthwhile.
PS...I'm going over to "experts" and throw my two-cents in over there. Gotta be an AK/AR, or a 9mm vs. 45 scenario for me to jump into. Sadly, it won't be nearly as informative. You all are good people. Best, Joe0 -
rcrxs... if you're a true MP fan you'll get this... "Because she looks like a witch!"
quote:rcrxs-
My response is, I was not a believer before my cancer diagnosis, and my diagnosis did not change anything. At the time of my treatment, I had at least 2 Baptist prayer groups, at least three Wiccans, 200 Catholic nuns, and a Shinto in Japan all making prayers for me.
To which god do I thank for my recovery? I'm not discounting their efforts, I believe in karmha. But I do not believe that any one religion has the corner on any higher ground is concerned.
The obvious answer would be that since you are still an unbeliever, it would be ludicrous for you to thank something that in your mind,doesn't exist.
For those who say that no one religion is more superior or right than another, why is it so important for them to discount Christianity, seemingly to accept the others for consideration? quote:BR
Why do I have to believe what you believe or what you want me to believe thinking it will do me good?...stop pushing it, stop saying I will go to hell...so what?????????????????????? what concern is it of yours????...and if I dont believe, why do you insist I am less a person than you?...why do you think I have less morals than you?...why do you think I am automatically wrong?...why do I have to believe as you do?...
Many seem to get so defensive and uptight just having the knowledge of what others believe. Knowing that others disagree with your position shouldn't be enough to bring a higher level of discomfort if your convictions run deep. I would then say, be truly honest and ask, which religions demand that you have to believe as they do. Most only require their followers to share what they believe. Let's say someone knew you were loading 30 grains of Bullseye over a 300gr jhp, in a 44. Would it bother you if they said it might blow your face off to shoot it, or would you thank them for their concern? Would you automatically assume they think they are better than you because they brought it to your attention?
It probably would depend on your true level of confidence.
If you insist on shooting anyhow... you will.0 -
quote:Originally posted by p3skyking
Points to Ponder
If we are made in his image, is he a morphodite?
Yes, he's omnipotent. Duh!
If God is so perfect, why is he a jealous god?
Answered elsewhere.
Does another god have more souls?
Probably the false ones. Would you want your soul to go to a golden calf when you die, or even worse?
If he loves all his children the same, how come little Timmy was born with no legs?
My son was born with a arthogryposis. He can't walk and has very limited use of his hands. If you knew him you wouldn't even ask this question - but I had the same doubt in my mind before he was born. I've learned everything happens for a reason. He's very well adjusted in a normal kindergarten(not special education) class, and with his personality a great asset to his school. Believe me, he doesn't let his disability get in the way of anything, including mischief.
Why the hell make a man, shouldn't he have made a Mrs. God?
Already answered.
Wouldn't you think his houses would be in a "Lightening Bolt Free" area?
Are you serious? Lightning bolts are fascinating. Imagine being able to look down into the heart of a tornado from up there! A better question would be, is the bible open to subjective interpretation? I say yes to that one.
If he really loves us, why is it all the real fun stuff is a sin?
Actually, all the "fun stuff" can really hurt you in the long run. The number of fun things out there that are not sin dwarf the amount of "fun stuff" that are sin.
[;)][:D]0 -
I guess over thousands of years of human evolution the three major religions are just the best answer. The bible does say there are many rooms in heaven, I like to interpret that as the rooms are symbols for the different religions. Even ancient man looked to the skies and questioned the why and how of our existence, wondering about the finality of death.
quote:Originally posted by tr fox
The answer is not and has not ever been know to man. We may never know, even after we die. But people cannot accept not knowing, so they create religion which supposely gives them answers. I guess it really doesn't matter much one way or the other unless the religious people (extremist Muslims for example) use their religion to cause problems.0 -
quote:Originally posted by Classic095
More Questions:
Did Adam and Eve have belly buttons? As they were made and not born of woman, there would not have been an umbilical cord for fetal nurishment from a mother..
Well there would be a hole from where the rib was taken out of Adam, maybe? Why interpret the bible so literally if it's based on faith? A creative mind can create answers to either discredit or strengthen one's faith in the bible, but it's up to each individual. In such a scientific world, there is yet so much we do not understand it's impossible to prove or disprove the bible without faith in either proving or disproving.
If there were only two people made by this god, where did all the other races come from? Without outside influence in DNA and gene transfer there would be just one race of people in the world. GEE could it have been evolution?
When Cain killed Abel, he left and started a city called Enoch filled with people. So there were people around at that point. How they got there, the bible doesn't say. I doubt there was incest, or else we'd all look the same. Back in the old testament, there were other gods floating out there that had existed for thousands of years before it was ever written. Nonetheless, my Christian God is the one who prevailed - I wonder why that is [:D]
IF god made everything, animals by the millions, plants by the billion, why stop at TWO people.?
Maybe he made more and just spoiled Adam and Eve by letting them live in the garden. Life's not fair.
If there were only two people and they had children, where did the children find mates? Do you think there was incest?
See above.
If God was all knowing, he knew that Adam and Eve would fall for the temptation that he laid in front of them, so this God Tricked them.. Sort of like telling a child about the cookie jar , telling it not to get into it, and then leaving the room with the lid off the jar.. cause you know the kid is going to grab a cookie..[;)]
What abour free will? Maybe life means more when you only last 0-120 years in your body instead of forever. I can only guess what God was thinking philosiphically.
If god was all knowing and has this master plan then god supports abortion, murder, and all manner of evil, after all its his plan..[:0]
or if you say he is not responsible for evil then he must condon it as there is never anything done to prevent it..[:0]
There's plenty done to prevent it, by people who work with God's help. Men have free will, and if they want to pillage and rape freely they have to answer for it one day. He loves us so much, though, he gave usa way towards forgiveness. You see mothers at the trials of their serial killer sons, and most don't turn away from them, heartbroken as they are. So why question God's love for his children when you can see something as simple as a mother's love for her child.0 -
So are you an agnostic, a person who neither denies nor believes in the existence of God?
quote:Originally posted by Johnnylikesguns
If you live like there is no God, what are you going to do if there is a God?
Does that scare you?
It should!0 -
Protecting the helpless infants is our responsibility as a civilizatoin, not God's. The innocent come to him eventually anyway. Why would he interfere and negate the power of faith? God loves children for their innocence just like most of the rest of us do.
quote:Originally posted by tr fox
quote:Originally posted by lindalecowboy
quote:Originally posted by idsman75
quote:Originally posted by bobski
amazing how satan is left out of GODS perfect plan discussions and GOD always gets blamed for it all. it very easy to FORGET that we are the prize that satan is after. he will do anything to steer humans away from the truth to KILL US. the meer fact that you all ask these questions about GOD, proves he succeeded!
GOD has a perfect existance in heaven. SATAN challenged GOD. GOD thru him out.
GOD created man and the earth we live on and all the heavens around it. GOD LIVES BEYOND what you and i see. bible says the heavens will roll back like a scroll someday. WOW!
so....heres GODS perfect little earth with perfect man and GUESS WHO SHOWS UP?
thats why the world is messed up today. satan has ruined GODS perfect creation by tempting man to choose him instead of GOD. it goes on even to this day, to this minute, to this second.
old saying...."for people who accept CHIRST and acknowledge GOD as creator and DENOUNCE SATAN, living on earth is the closest to hell theyll ever see. on the other hand, for those that denounce GOD and play all the selfish games on earth thinking theres no price to pay in the end.....being on earth this is the closest to heaven theyll ever see! woe unto them."
GOD created man to have FELLOWSHIP with Him. how many gods do you know that are willing to share everything they know with you freely and with love? none.....except the alpha and omega.[^]
how many of you fathers hae friends that you love so much that youd tell your son to go die for one? GOD DID. jesus died for THE WHOLE WORLD. and last time i checked....youre in it.
Good words but I have a tougher one for you to bite on. This chewed me up a few weeks ago and I had to do some serious studying to get to the point.
Who are we to "accept" God? If God is omniscient, omni-present and omnipotent then wouldn't it motivate us to be acceptable to HIM? This goes back to my upbringing in Reformed doctrine which is basically a complete rejection of Armenianism. If I "accept" God then that means there is some little tiny part of me that is righteous and not touched by sin. I thought Christ made us alive while we were still dead in our sins. The idea that WE do the act of the "accepting" flies in the face of the all-pervasiveness of sin and depravity because there would have to be some small un-tainted righteous part in each and every one of us which, by my estimation, is unbiblical.
There's a lot of good stuff on this subject over at www.monergism.com . http://www.monergism.com/thethreshold/articles/onsite/sproul01.html specifically. R.C. Sproul is a good modern-day theologian and is an absolutely amazing person to listen to.
idsman,
Your point about "accepting" is a little confusing/challening to the truth of the Gospel. John 15:16 tells us the simple fact that WE did not choose God but He chose us. That is, He presents the Gospel to you or draws you to Himself through His Creation, His Followers, etc. and IF you hear His call and answer, you will become one of His Followers. One of the most popular "sayings" around this country is that Basically all people are GOOD...." The Bible says differently, Jeremiah 17:9 says our HEART is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked. My point is WE, in our own strength and power are NOT interested in God but only He can put that desire in our hearts or call us to Himself. So to your point of our "accepting", it's another word for receiving the call of the Lord to come to Him.
What I find interesting about all these "religious" discussions and everyone's opinion, you can easily distinguish which ones are based on Scripture and which ones are based on late night thinking.
One final comment on the subject, as to the original post, someone has already touched on the "purpose" for God creating everything, us, the world, etc., it was to create beings that could have fellowship with Him and learn to Love Him. As to all those who ask WHY??? look in the Bible with an open heart and you will find the TRUTH. To those who say why does God let bad stuff happen if he's so LOVING, it's because he is so loving that he lets bad things happen because rather than make a bunch of robots that ONLY did what he commanded, he gave us free will to CHOOSE to love Him and His commandments OR chose our own path. re: the scripture in Jeremiah about our heart being wicked.........WE, MAN, choose our own path. by the way, God is our Heavenly Father, not mother....
Before I read your scriptures (I have read most of them) you must first prove to me that they contain no lies or errors. BTW, God DID NOT give us total free will. When you accidently put your hand on top of a hot stove, you will not pause, use free will, and then decide to remove your hand. No, God built into you and everybody REFLEXES so that you will instantly remove your hand from that hot stove without even thinking about it.
Now, why couldn't he have built in the same kind of reflex that whenever an adult (especially a parent) starts to horrible abuse a tiney, helpless infant then a reflex kicks in and the adult cannot actually do the abuse. That way tiny, helpless, defenseless infants would be protected by God (as they should be) and none of us would question that protection.
Just as we don't question the "protection" God has built into us regarding the reflex to remove our hand from a hot stove to avoid injury and pain. This could work especially when you consider God knows all and can do anything. He could protect the helpless infants.
Yet he stands in the shadows and knowingly lets them suffer.0 -
The bible is very historically accurate. It is the greatest history book of the ancient world ever written. Ask any historian.
quote:Originally posted by Classic095
The Bible can be validated by old manuscripts but the writings in the bible cannot be validated by facts..No facts exist to prove that the stories in the bible every happened.. You can validate the writing of any book, but you cant validate the contents without historical facts.0 -
I don't know why you're posting this mountain of ancient world rules from the old testament when clearly the new testament overrides all that stuff. And now YOU are referencing the bible as well.
quote:Originally posted by Classic095
TRFOX, here are just a few examples of the LOVE in the bible..
Murders committed in the name of this GOD:
Kill People Who Don't Listen to Priests
Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)
Kill Witches
You should not let a sorceress live. (Exodus 22:17 NAB)
Kill Homosexuals
"If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)
Kill Fortunetellers
A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death. (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)
Death for Hitting Dad
Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death. (Exodus 21:15 NAB)
Death for Cursing Parents
1) If one curses his father or mother, his lamp will go out at the coming of darkness. (Proverbs 20:20 NAB)
2) All who curse their father or mother must be put to death. They are guilty of a capital offense. (Leviticus 20:9 NLT)
Death for Adultery
If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)
Death for Fornication
A priest's daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death. (Leviticus 21:9 NAB)
Death to Followers of Other Religions
Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19 NAB)
Kill Nonbelievers
They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)
Kill False Prophets
If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, "You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord." When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through. (Zechariah 13:3 NAB)
Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God
Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him." (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)
Kill Women Who Are Not Virgins On Their Wedding Night
But if this charge is true (that she wasn't a virgin on her wedding night), and evidence of the girls virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against Israel by her unchasteness in her father's house. Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst. (Deuteronomy 22:20-21 NAB)
Kill Followers of Other Religions.
1) If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)
2) Suppose a man or woman among you, in one of your towns that the LORD your God is giving you, has done evil in the sight of the LORD your God and has violated the covenant by serving other gods or by worshiping the sun, the moon, or any of the forces of heaven, which I have strictly forbidden. When you hear about it, investigate the matter thoroughly. If it is true that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then that man or woman must be taken to the gates of the town and stoned to death. (Deuteronomy 17:2-5 NLT)
Death for Blasphemy
One day a man who had an Israelite mother and an Egyptian father got into a fight with one of the Israelite men. During the fight, this son of an Israelite woman blasphemed the LORD's name. So the man was brought to Moses for judgment. His mother's name was Shelomith. She was the daughter of Dibri of the tribe of Dan. They put the man in custody until the LORD's will in the matter should become clear. Then the LORD said to Moses, "Take the blasphemer outside the camp, and tell all those who heard him to lay their hands on his head. Then let the entire community stone him to death. Say to the people of Israel: Those who blaspheme God will suffer the consequences of their guilt and be punished. Anyone who blasphemes the LORD's name must be stoned to death by the whole community of Israel. Any Israelite or foreigner among you who blasphemes the LORD's name will surely die. (Leviticus 24:10-16 NLT)
Kill False Prophets
1) Suppose there are prophets among you, or those who have dreams about the future, and they promise you signs or miracles, and the predicted signs or miracles take place. If the prophets then say, 'Come, let us worship the gods of foreign nations,' do not listen to them. The LORD your God is testing you to see if you love him with all your heart and soul. Serve only the LORD your God and fear him alone. Obey his commands, listen to his voice, and cling to him. The false prophets or dreamers who try to lead you astray must be put to death, for they encourage rebellion against the LORD your God, who brought you out of slavery in the land of Egypt. Since they try to keep you from following the LORD your God, you must execute them to remove the evil from among you. (Deuteronomy 13:1-5 NLT)
2) But any prophet who claims to give a message from another god or who falsely claims to speak for me must die.' You may wonder, 'How will we know whether the prophecy is from the LORD or not?' If the prophet predicts something in the LORD's name and it does not happen, the LORD did not give the message. That prophet has spoken on his own and need not be feared. (Deuteronomy 18:20-22 NLT)
Infidels and Gays Should Die
So God let them go ahead and do whatever shameful things their hearts desired. As a result, they did vile and degrading things with each other's bodies. Instead of believing what they knew was the truth about God, they deliberately chose to believe lies. So they worshiped the things God made but not the Creator himself, who is to be praised forever. Amen. That is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires. Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other. And the men, instead of having normal sexual relationships with women, burned with lust for each other. Men did shameful things with other men and, as a result, suffered within themselves the penalty they so richly deserved. When they refused to acknowledge God, he abandoned them to their evil minds and let them do things that should never be done. Their lives became full of every kind of wickedness, sin, greed, hate, envy, murder, fighting, deception, malicious behavior, and gossip. They are backstabbers, haters of God, insolent, proud, and boastful. They are forever inventing new ways of sinning and are disobedient to their parents. They refuse to understand, break their promises, and are heartless and unforgiving. They are fully aware of God's death penalty for those who do these things, yet they go right ahead and do them anyway. And, worse yet, they encourage others to do them, too. (Romans 1:24-32 NLT)
Kill Anyone who Approaches the Tabernacle
For the LORD had said to Moses, 'Exempt the tribe of Levi from the census; do not include them when you count the rest of the Israelites. You must put the Levites in charge of the Tabernacle of the Covenant, along with its furnishings and equipment. They must carry the Tabernacle and its equipment as you travel, and they must care for it and camp around it. Whenever the Tabernacle is moved, the Levites will take it down and set it up again. Anyone else who goes too near the Tabernacle will be executed.' (Numbers 1:48-51 NLT)
Kill People for Working on the Sabbath
The LORD then gave these further instructions to Moses: 'Tell the people of Israel to keep my Sabbath day, for the Sabbath is a sign of the covenant between me and you forever. It helps you to remember that I am the LORD, who makes you holy. Yes, keep the Sabbath day, for it is holy. Anyone who desecrates it must die; anyone who works on that day will be cut off from the community. Work six days only, but the seventh day must be a day of total rest. I repeat: Because the LORD considers it a holy day, anyone who works on the Sabbath must be put to death.' (Exodus 31:12-15 NLT)
2) God's Murders for Stupid Reasons:
Kill Brats
From there Elisha went up to Bethel. While he was on his way, some small boys came out of the city and jeered at him. "Go up baldhead," they shouted, "go up baldhead!" The prophet turned and saw them, and he cursed them in the name of the Lord. Then two shebears came out of the woods and tore forty two of the children to pieces. (2 Kings 2:23-24 NAB)
God Kills the Curious
And he smote of the men of Beth-shemesh, because they had looked into the ark of Jehovah, he smote of the people seventy men, `and' fifty thousand men; and the people mourned, because Jehovah had smitten the people with a great slaughter. And the men of Beth-shemesh said, Who is able to stand before Jehovah, this holy God? and to whom shall he go up from us? (1Samuel 6:19-20 ASV)
Killed by a Lion
Meanwhile, the LORD instructed one of the group of prophets to say to another man, "Strike me!" But the man refused to strike the prophet. Then the prophet told him, "Because you have not obeyed the voice of the LORD, a lion will kill you as soon as you leave me." And sure enough, when he had gone, a lion attacked and killed him. (1 Kings 20:35-36 NLT)
Killing the Good Samaritan
The ark of God was placed on a new cart and taken away from the house of Abinadab on the hill. Uzzah and Ahio, sons of Abinadab guided the cart, with Ahio walking before it, while David and all the Israelites made merry before the Lord with all their strength, with singing and with citharas, harps, tambourines, sistrums, and cymbals.
When they came to the threshing floor of Nodan, Uzzah reached out his hand to the ark of God to steady it, for the oxen were making it tip. But the Lord was angry with Uzzah; God struck him on that spot, and he died there before God. (2 Samuel 6:3-7 NAB)
3) Murdering Children
Kill Sons of Sinners
Make ready to slaughter his sons for the guilt of their fathers; Lest they rise and posses the earth, and fill the breadth of the world with tyrants. (Isaiah 14:21 NAB)
God Will Kill Children
The glory of Israel will fly away like a bird, for your children will die at birth or perish in the womb or never even be conceived. Even if your children do survive to grow up, I will take them from you. It will be a terrible day when I turn away and leave you alone. I have watched Israel become as beautiful and pleasant as Tyre. But now Israel will bring out her children to be slaughtered." O LORD, what should I request for your people? I will ask for wombs that don't give birth and breasts that give no milk. The LORD says, "All their wickedness began at Gilgal; there I began to hate them. I will drive them from my land because of their evil actions. I will love them no more because all their leaders are rebels. The people of Israel are stricken. Their roots are dried up; they will bear no more fruit. And if they give birth, I will slaughter their beloved children." (Hosea 9:11-16 NLT)
Kill Men, Women, and Children
"Then I heard the LORD say to the other men, "Follow him through the city and kill everyone whose forehead is not marked. Show no mercy; have no pity! Kill them all - old and young, girls and women and little children. But do not touch anyone with the mark. Begin your task right here at the Temple." So they began by killing the seventy leaders. "Defile the Temple!" the LORD commanded. "Fill its courtyards with the bodies of those you kill! Go!" So they went throughout the city and did as they were told." (Ezekiel 9:5-7 NLT)
God Kills all the First Born of Egypt
And at midnight the LORD killed all the firstborn sons in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn son of Pharaoh, who sat on the throne, to the firstborn son of the captive in the dungeon. Even the firstborn of their livestock were killed. Pharaoh and his officials and all the people of Egypt woke up during the night, and loud wailing was heard throughout the land of Egypt. There was not a single house where someone had not died. (Exodus 12:29-30 NLT)
Kill Old Men and Young Women
"You are my battle-ax and sword," says the LORD. "With you I will shatter nations and destroy many kingdoms. With you I will shatter armies, destroying the horse and rider, the chariot and charioteer. With you I will shatter men and women, old people and children, young men and maidens. With you I will shatter shepherds and flocks, farmers and oxen, captains and rulers. "As you watch, I will repay Babylon and the people of Babylonia for all the wrong they have done to my people in Jerusalem," says the LORD. "Look, O mighty mountain, destroyer of the earth! I am your enemy," says the LORD. "I will raise my fist against you, to roll you down from the heights. When I am finished, you will be nothing but a heap of rubble. You will be desolate forever. Even your stones will never again be used for building. You will be completely wiped out," says the LORD. (Jeremiah 51:20-26)
(Note that after God promises the Israelites a victory against Babylon, the Israelites actually get their butts kicked by them in the next chapter. So much for an all-knowing and all-powerful God.)
God Will Kill the Children of Sinners
If even then you remain hostile toward me and refuse to obey, I will inflict you with seven more disasters for your sins. I will release wild animals that will kill your children and destroy your cattle, so your numbers will dwindle and your roads will be deserted. (Leviticus 26:21-22 NLT)
More Rape and Baby Killing
Anyone who is captured will be run through with a sword. Their little children will be dashed to death right before their eyes. Their homes will be sacked and their wives raped by the attacking hordes. For I will stir up the Medes against Babylon, and no amount of silver or gold will buy them off. The attacking armies will shoot down the young people with arrows. They will have no mercy on helpless babies and will show no compassion for the children. (Isaiah 13:15-18 NLT)
4) Miscellaneous Murders
More of Samson's Murders
(The Lord saves Sampson from standing trial for 30 murders and arson by allowing him to kill 1000 more men.) When he reached Lehi, and the Philistines came shouting to meet him, the spirit of the Lord came upon him: the ropes around his arms become as flax that is consumed by fire and the bonds melted away from his hands. Near him was the fresh jawbone of an ass; he reached out, grasped it, and with it killed a thousand men. (Judges 15:14-15 NAB)
Peter Kills Two People
There was also a man named Ananias who, with his wife, Sapphira, sold some property. He brought part of the money to the apostles, but he claimed it was the full amount. His wife had agreed to this deception. Then Peter said, "Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart? You lied to the Holy Spirit, and you kept some of the money for yourself. The property was yours to sell or not sell, as you wished. And after selling it, the money was yours to give away. How could you do a thing like this? You weren't lying to us but to God." As soon as Ananias heard these words, he fell to the floor and died. Everyone who heard about it was terrified. Then some young men wrapped him in a sheet and took him out and buried him. About three hours later his wife came in, not knowing what had happened. Peter asked her, "Was this the price you and your husband received for your land?" "Yes," she replied, "that was the price." And Peter said, "How could the two of you even think of doing a thing like this - conspiring together to test the Spirit of the Lord? Just outside that door are the young men who buried your husband, and they will carry you out, too." Instantly, she fell to the floor and died. When the young men came in and saw that she was dead, they carried her out and buried her beside her husband. Great fear gripped the entire church and all others who heard what had happened. (Acts 5:1-11 NLT)0 -
If you understand that the bible is subject to interpretation, these contradictions are obsolete. For example, what is God's face? A literal face, or the face of his wrath, or what? We can argue for days over the bible but the fact that we are gives it more power then if you simply kept silent.
quote:Originally posted by Classic095
Here is the source for the other: You know I make no statement about the bible without giving the verses when ask for them.. To many discrepencies for there to be validity..
John 1:18, Exodus 33:20, and Genesis 32:30 contradict one another. In John 1:18, the apostle wrote: "No one has seen God at any time." In Exodus 33:20 God said to Moses: "You cannot see My face; for no man can see Me and live." But Genesis 32:30 records Jacob as saying: "For I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved."
Again the question arises,,if one is true and the other a lie, which is which???0 -
"My question is......
There was nothing, then God created everything. Why??????
Was he bored? What is the reasoning given (if any) for creating anything? He knows everything, so before he created it/us he knew most of us would end up in hell, so why bother?
Is there a reason given in the Bible for creation? Boredom? Loneliness?"
Without getting into a long sermon on this subject, I suggest that you read the Bible. All of the answers to you questions are there. When I am asked why I believe in the Bible, and how do you know it is real, I just ask the accuser why do you believe in atomic energy? You can't see it or touch it, yet you still believe in it, and it is real. It is the same for me and God and the Bible. Then again, believing in God and all of his creation is a Christian thing. If your not one, transform and become one and give yourself to God. If not, you will never know the answers to your questions. Oh, yeah, I'd really think hard on the questioning of God and his power, that is a very slippery slope that you are on, one that will lead you to a lake of fire.0
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