Too Many of U Are 2 Hardline
Yeah, I'm gonna come out and say it. Too many of you here are way too hard line about gun rights. I value my guns rights too and feel there are several good arguments as to why none of us lawful citizens should ever lose our gun rights. But I'm just not going to go the hard line route. If we all lived on some tiny island, with a small population and could make hard line work then I might be in favor of it. But we live in a huge country with over 250 million fellow citizens. And human nature being what it is, and political power being what it is, to a strong degree you have to have the support of many of those non-gun owning citizens if you are going to hang onto your gun rights. And showing a hard line attitude towards those citizens is not going to get much cooperation from them.
Do the math. Gun owners are in the minority in America. Very active gun owner are part of an even smaller minority in America. You hard liners are part of an even much smaller minority in America. This means that no matter how much GOA tries, or how how much you claim the 2A gives you absolute gun rights, you will not be able to enjoy those gun rights unless you get some cooperation from millions of other Americans, who are reasonable, but don't see things exactly like you do. This is true even if the 2A named you by your full name and declared in bold letters that you had absolute and total gun rights. Unless you act in such a way so as to get cooperation from millions of non-gun owning Americans, you will not keep your gun rights very long.
In regards to those here who boldly claim they are just quietly waiting for the "shooting war, the gun rights revolution" to start so they can jump into action, you make me laugh. Each and every day our federal, state and even city governments put the shaft to you in ways other than gun rights. And instead of going on some kind of rampage, you just quietly take that sodominizing without so much as a word of complaint.
And yeah, you remind me of the Taliban or the extremist Muslims. Christians and Muslims seem to believe in the same God. You would think that with that connection both could find some way to get along. And I believe generally the Christians do get along with the Muslims; at least in modern times. But the Muslims and Taliban take a hard line on the issue, just as some of you do here. Since Christians don't believe in religion exactly like the Muslims do, the Muslims hate the Christians and even go so far as to kill them for their beliefs.
I see that here. YOu hardliners and I have a lot of agreement. We all own and like guns. We all have a belief in the US 2A (and in my case a belief in the KS Constitution) but we don't have the exact same belief about gun rights. We all resent the anti-gun crowd who want to disarm us while leaving the criminals and police armed. So you would think that even though you hardliners and I don't exactly agree on gun rights, we have many, many more areas of close agreement than we have of disagreement. You would think we could find someway to be friends and allies. But you hardliners can't seem to do that.
Over the years I wonder how many potential friends your hardline rantings have run off. And regarding your crusade against the NRA, you have obviously weakened it, at leaste here on GB.com. But a question you need to ask yourself is, while you have been busy weakening the NRA, what exactly have you built up in the NRA's place? Over the years I have seen a lot of tearing down of the NRA, but I haven't seen anything being built in its place.
I'm through with you. Like it or not, but we gun owners need all the friends we can find. You hardliners and people like me could have been friends. But I give up. It will be a cold day in hell before you see me reading or posting on the gun rights forum part of GB.com.
Yeah, yeah, I know. Believe me I WON'T left the door hit me in the ass on the way out. And same to you.
Do the math. Gun owners are in the minority in America. Very active gun owner are part of an even smaller minority in America. You hard liners are part of an even much smaller minority in America. This means that no matter how much GOA tries, or how how much you claim the 2A gives you absolute gun rights, you will not be able to enjoy those gun rights unless you get some cooperation from millions of other Americans, who are reasonable, but don't see things exactly like you do. This is true even if the 2A named you by your full name and declared in bold letters that you had absolute and total gun rights. Unless you act in such a way so as to get cooperation from millions of non-gun owning Americans, you will not keep your gun rights very long.
In regards to those here who boldly claim they are just quietly waiting for the "shooting war, the gun rights revolution" to start so they can jump into action, you make me laugh. Each and every day our federal, state and even city governments put the shaft to you in ways other than gun rights. And instead of going on some kind of rampage, you just quietly take that sodominizing without so much as a word of complaint.
And yeah, you remind me of the Taliban or the extremist Muslims. Christians and Muslims seem to believe in the same God. You would think that with that connection both could find some way to get along. And I believe generally the Christians do get along with the Muslims; at least in modern times. But the Muslims and Taliban take a hard line on the issue, just as some of you do here. Since Christians don't believe in religion exactly like the Muslims do, the Muslims hate the Christians and even go so far as to kill them for their beliefs.
I see that here. YOu hardliners and I have a lot of agreement. We all own and like guns. We all have a belief in the US 2A (and in my case a belief in the KS Constitution) but we don't have the exact same belief about gun rights. We all resent the anti-gun crowd who want to disarm us while leaving the criminals and police armed. So you would think that even though you hardliners and I don't exactly agree on gun rights, we have many, many more areas of close agreement than we have of disagreement. You would think we could find someway to be friends and allies. But you hardliners can't seem to do that.
Over the years I wonder how many potential friends your hardline rantings have run off. And regarding your crusade against the NRA, you have obviously weakened it, at leaste here on GB.com. But a question you need to ask yourself is, while you have been busy weakening the NRA, what exactly have you built up in the NRA's place? Over the years I have seen a lot of tearing down of the NRA, but I haven't seen anything being built in its place.
I'm through with you. Like it or not, but we gun owners need all the friends we can find. You hardliners and people like me could have been friends. But I give up. It will be a cold day in hell before you see me reading or posting on the gun rights forum part of GB.com.
Yeah, yeah, I know. Believe me I WON'T left the door hit me in the ass on the way out. And same to you.
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Marc,
Agreed. Plus an unrestricted RTKBA for everyone would in all probability prove to be a deterrent to any former con wishing to do mischief with a firearm he obtained.0 -
Manson is the perfect example of what is REALLY busted in the 'Justice system' we have today...and laugh yourself sick over THAT 'sick' joke..
That person ought to have stretched rope many years ago...along with most of his groupies.
There would be no doubt about 'handing him his gun back'..no discussion at all.
THAT is the sort of thing we ought to be demanding from 'authorities'..swift and speedy FAIR justice. NOT gun control.0 -
Live your truth. Support JPFO, GOA, your state GO league and think long and hard about your next move when your door gets kicked in at 3AM despite what uniform or lack of it is displayed on the other side. 0 -
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^[?]^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Agreed Marc. It's a pathetic joke, our injustice system. But it plays it's part in this viscious busted circle.
It's real obvious, when the guy growing/selling weed gets 20 years, and the murderer gets 6, that something is not only wrong, but ridiculous.0 -
It never ceases to amaze.
TR- You should run for president of the NRA.0 -
when your door gets kicked in at 3AM
Tell us, hbolteast...when was your door last kicked in at 3 AM, and why????0 -
To respond, it hasn't been..yet. But I read accounts about fouled up warrants and innocents being caught in the crossfire by government agencies. Ex spouses with vendettas spreading misinformation. And drug and alcohol induced hoodlums looking for an easy score. I think we need to maintain the mindset to know how we intend to react to adversity before it happens. 0 -
tr fox sounds as if those who back the second 100% and do not accept compromise as being a hardliner. He also thinks that since the hardliners (PATRIOTIC AMERICANS) are a minority we can not retain our GOD given rights unless we can convince the majority (dumba** liberals) we deserve them. From what I understand AMERICA was NOT founded as a democracy (mob rule) but America IS founded as a Constitutional Republic (rule of law) so just because a majority of dumba** liberals thinks we no longer need one of our rights it does NOT grant them the authority to take it away. Our founders knew that a democracy would be self destructive and in time will take away any rights and freedoms the people have. THIS IS WHY AMERICA IS A FOUNDED AS A REPUBLIC. It is too bad so few people know this. 0 -
He also thinks that since the hardliners (PATRIOTIC AMERICANS) are a minority we can not retain our GOD given rights
God gave you the right to own guns? Really? Chapter, verse?
LMAO!!!0 -
quote:Originally posted by triple223tap
He also thinks that since the hardliners (PATRIOTIC AMERICANS) are a minority we can not retain our GOD given rights
God gave you the right to own guns? Really? Chapter, verse?
LMAO!!!
As you well know, the unalienable right refered to as the RTKBA, is about the ability to defend self, family, country and others, or to replace a tyrannical government if necessary.
Swords, sticks, spears, whatever...all, according to the time in history, fit the bill and you know it.
You simply can't help showing your ass, can you?
Do you even understand the meaning of "Unalienable Right", "God-given Right", or "Natural Right"?
I thought not.
Well, they are "entitlements" gifted upon everyone by being alive.
Government doesn't grant them and government cannot take them away. All government can do is attempt to restrict them and make it a crime for one to exercise them.....or, as in the case of our Constitutional Republic, government can be formed to secure those rights.
They exist regardless.
Needless to say triple, folks like you are the reason that our government has strayed from their duty to secure those rights and morphed into the predatory state that it now is.
Thanks for the work that you do......not.[;)]
What a pinhead.[V]0 -
A pretty basic difference between you and I, 'Tap;
I recognize a higher power then government.
You do not.
Bow to the Northeast, fool....0 -
quote:Originally posted by triple223tap
He also thinks that since the hardliners (PATRIOTIC AMERICANS) are a minority we can not retain our GOD given rights
God gave you the right to own guns? Really? Chapter, verse?
Since "God" isn't really responsible for "chapter and verse", your question has no "chapter and verse" answer.
However, your Right to Self Defense exists on a basic animal level. Even cute little bunnies will fight to survive.
Humans are Tool Users. We do not have tooth and claw - the animals' weapons.
By restricting or denying me the tools of Self Defense, you are denying me the MEANS of self defense. You are saying that my LIFE is not worth Defending. That it is WORTH LESS than the lives of those who are "allowed" to use tools.
When any entity - be it person, religion or Government - starts saying, implicitly or explicitly, that the lives of some people are WORTHLESS, then they have created the cachet to begin the wholesale killing.
Now, for "chapter and verse" I suggest you go read what Rabbi Mermelstein has to say on the subject. http://www.gunownersalliance.com/Rabbi_0363.htm0 -
oh GOD does feel good to be back from the field and back with family[:D]... highball... it's good to see that the "stick" is still sharp and ready for thrusting, and is in the hands of a skilled individual.[xx(] at this point in the argument, i see no need in trying to prove or declare my "hard line" stance on the situation at hand. many of you here know where i stand. i am very sick and tired of topics such as this starting just to provoke us into trying to make ourselves look like the bad guy.[}:)] Maybe possibly some good comes out of discussions such as this one, but there are two "hard lines" here. Ours and theirs, neither one will break easily, and i can guarantee mine will not be the first. On the positive note, i just got paid today and, and mailed off my check to GOA for my life membership. also had a few "converts" while i was out in the field. it was truly a blessing to see other young soldiers such as myself come to the full understanding of "uphold and defend the Constitution of the United States of America and to defend it from ALL enemies foreign and domestic". it was truly beautiful. 0 -
Aaron;
Welcome back..been missing your posts.
Congratulations on your positive actions relating to continued freedoms here in America.
My personal opinion is that educating a half-dozen young warriours about what REAL freedom means is more valuble then another 100 missions dreamed up by crooked politicians....designed to increase their power and billfold.
You make an interesting point.." Two Hardlines". I need to process that a bit. Generally, when I hear the "We gotta have gun control" crowd speak, I get the mental picture of Casper Milktoasts type 'man'...eagerly awaiting the government to step in and protect them from all imagined ills...0 -
At this point, I believe that there is no feasible hope for making people realize the tyrannical control that the government already exerts. At least not by using firearms laws.
But I believe that medicare is something that would make the situation much more clear.
Not 20 years ago, surgeries, medications, and even cancer treatments would not break an average family. Now, it costs people everything they own.
Doctors are effectively guaranteed exorbitant amounts of money for their services, given this guarantee by the federal government's regulations on health insurance and medicare. They have no need to make their services affordable, and the government certainly uses that to full advantage.
ALL of the presidential candidates use medicare as a campaign issue. None of them will do anything to fix it. Hillary for one intends to put every single American under the yoke by making it mandatory. This is nothing more than blackmail. They're demanding votes and power, in exchange for medicine and services that some people need to live. There are people already convinced that they cannot survive without money from the government, because they need medicine. This handout keeps them in line.
We can expect to see a trend of gradually criminalizing small business, the same way firearms ownership has been. Big companies are run by those that want more money and power, and are easily kept in the pocket of politicians who can grant more money and power. Small businesses are run by those who wish to be independent, the natural enemy of these tyrants. There's already an increase in the trend of thinking that one would need money from the government in order to START a small business.
None of this has anything to do with firearms. It still has everything to do with tyranny.
Even if these people won't demand the return of gun rights in so many words, they can still be convinced to reject the control of those that are our enemies.0 -
quote:Originally posted by triple223tap
He also thinks that since the hardliners (PATRIOTIC AMERICANS) are a minority we can not retain our GOD given rights
God gave you the right to own guns? Really? Chapter, verse?
LMAO!!!
Trust me, we aren't laughing WITH you. I'm not quite sure why you are still allowed in this forum; if you could debate, I'd enjoy reading your posts and responding but you're just viscous.
There are numerous places where God gave man not only the right but the obligation to protect himself, his family and his possessions and no, I will not cite chapter and verse. Do your own research for a change so that maybe you can sound half intelligent in your future posts.0 -
There are numerous places where God gave man
God is an imaginary being, just like Santa and the Easter Bunny, therefore he has given you nothing.
Lose the childish superstitions, maybe then grownups will take you seriously.0 -
originally posted by triple223tap:
God is an imaginary being, just like Santa and the Easter Bunny, therefore he has given you nothing.
Might want to reconsider your position Meester Tap. If it were not for God allowing it, your heart would cease to beat, you would take your last gasp, and you would be no more.
You make a lot of references to Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny. What are you? 8? 10? It's close to your bedtime, junior.0 -
Been my experience that those people that cannot let a reference to God pass without a smartsz remark are devil whorshippers.
Sorta inflames them.0 -
HB,
you may be on to something there, however, I believe our friend 3x223tap only is into worshipping himself.
Sorta inflames them.
heh, heh, heh. Pun intended?[:D]0 -
Well, it appeared to fit nicely...and describes their actions well. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by triple223tap
There are numerous places where God gave man
God is an imaginary being, just like Santa and the Easter Bunny, therefore he has given you nothing.
Lose the childish superstitions, maybe then grownups will take you seriously.
Yee hah! [}:)]
Somehow, after almost 8 years of Comparative Theology, I have come to the conclusion that your position is pure hubristic nihlisim.
FWIW, I do not believe in ANY "revealed Religion". I am A Deist, and will be untill Atheisim can answer questions it has, to date, been unable to answer.
God - whatever the Prime Mover may be - did not create Religion, He/She/it created everything else. MAN created Religion as a form of Political Control.
But it is not logically consistant or appropriate to discard the theoretical possibility of a "Supreme Being".
Religion is Politics. God Is.0 -
quote:Originally posted by wsfiredude
HB,
you may be on to something there, however, I believe our friend 3x223tap only is into worshipping himself.
Sorta inflames them.
heh, heh, heh. Pun intended?[:D]
Now THAT is funny snit.[:D][:D][:D]0 -
quote:Originally posted by Old Ironsights
quote:Originally posted by triple223tap
There are numerous places where God gave man
God is an imaginary being, just like Santa and the Easter Bunny, therefore he has given you nothing.
Lose the childish superstitions, maybe then grownups will take you seriously.
Yee hah! [}:)]
Somehow, after almost 8 years of Comparative Theology, I have come to the conclusion that your position is pure hubristic nihlisim.
FWIW, I do not believe in ANY "revealed Religion". I am A Deist, and will be untill Atheisim can answer questions it has, to date, been unable to answer.
God - whatever the Prime Mover may be - did not create Religion, He/She/it created everything else. MAN created Religion as a form of Political Control.
But it is not logically consistant or appropriate to discard the theoretical possibility of a "Supreme Being".
Religion is Politics. God Is.
+10 -
"Too many of you here are way too hard line about gun rights."
Well, its a yes or no question so what do you expect? Like a "good" politican who refuses to take a hard position on anything, we keep making gray areas between the answers so we don't have to answer basic questions.
You're either part of the solution or part of the problem. The choice is your's. Havng rights in American permits that individual choice, but the Gubermint works hard daily to take the ability to make those choice for ourselves away from us!
To idealistic for you? Maybe you would like to move to Europe, Canada, England, Russia or someother place where gun rights is less of a topic?0 -
You're either part of the solution or part of the problem.
You're quoting Eldridge Cleaver? LMAO!
http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/e/eldridge_cleaver.html0 -
I wonder how much money T2T is losing over there in "Afganistan"... he's obviously dipping into his own Poppy Supply...
CLUE: The Value of an Axiom is not dependent on the Speaker or Originator, but on the Truth which underlies it... somthing you are obviously willing to ignore.
To wit:
"We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men." - G. Orwell
The welfare of humanity is always the alibi of tyrants - Albert Camus
"Potentially, a government is the most dangerous threat to man's rights: it holds a legal monopoly on the use of physical force against "legally" disarmed victims. When unlimited and unrestricted by individual rights, a government is man's deadliest enemy. It is not as protection against PRIVATE actions, but against governmental actions that the Bill of Rights was written. " --Ayn Rand "Man's Rights", April, 1963.
What America demands in her black champions is a brilliant, powerful body and a dull, bestial mind. Eldridge Cleaver (See, Thomas Sowell, Bill Cosby, Ward Connerly... and every Gangsta "athlete" on TV.
How about growing up and being intellectually honest Tap?0 -
What America demands in her black champions is a brilliant, powerful body and a dull, bestial mind.
You're talking about Clarence Thomas, Colin Powell, and Condoleeza Rice...right?0 -
quote:Originally posted by triple223tap
What America demands in her black champions is a brilliant, powerful body and a dull, bestial mind.
You're talking about Clarence Thomas, Colin Powell, and Condoleeza Rice...right?
Nope. Try Obama bin Laden, Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton.
Well, I don't demand anything from them that I don't from anyone else, but that's just me.0 -
Bin Laden is black? 0
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