I have a question
In Illinois we do not allow concealed carry, and certainly not in schools. I am going to a community college a few miles away from NIU, a friend of mine helped to break up a scuffle, during the fight he noticed that an object very similar to that of a handgun fell out of the waistband of one of the fellers, he scooped it back up and ran off. Now this happened about a half hour before I got to school, and there is a gang presence in dekalb and surrounding areas. My question is should I start packing a small sig p239 in my bookbag before I come to school?
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I won't advise you to "break the law" but I would... 0 -
I think that it is an illegal law and should not be followed, at the same time I have other things going on, mainly I cannot afford to get into any trouble at the moment. However should real violence visit my school which may seem likely at this point, do I have a need to look out for my own safety? These are hard questions and I really don't have the answer. Another problem I see is that the Illinois state government will definitely frown on packing at school after NIU, although I doubt I would be caught, there is always that possibility. I have carried before in WA state while I was in the military and have flown over 2300 hours most of which was in combat, and I was armed.
So who here thinks it is worth the risk?0 -
If you break the law and get caught you then become a member of the "criminal class" of society. At that point two things happen to you. One, you may lose your right forever to either/or own firearms or more likely to ever get a CCW; either in another state or in the case that you state finally starts offering CCW.
The other thing that happens to you is that you will no longer be able to claim that you are a lawful, responsible citizen and you deserve to have the overly restrictive laws changed to whereas you can more easily buy and own guns as well as lobby for a CCW law for your state.
Probably be better to follow the present unjust laws and join with other like-minded people and get the laws changed for the better. But I warn you that such action will require more than most people are willing to give. That would be that instead of keeping their money in their pockets, or spending it on fun toys, they instead spend some money helping organizations (or start your own) that work towards helping gun rights. In addition it will require you to spend time and effort protesting, writing letters to your government representatives and to the media and just working to change attitudes in general in order to finally get your rights.0 -
I think that it is an illegal law
You're certainly entitled to your opinion. However, the officer who arrests you, and the judge at your trial will have different opinions. Their opinions will carry more weight than yours.
Some are of the opinon that income tax is illegal, and they don't pay. You know how that works out for them.0 -
quote:If you break the law and get caught you then become a member of the "criminal class" of society. At that point two things happen to you. One, you may lose your right forever to either/or own firearms or more likely to ever get a CCW; either in another state or in the case that you state finally starts offering CCW.
Wrong!!! Being a free man enables you to be free and carry as you wish. You know what will happen if caught, but it is still your right.
quote:The other thing that happens to you is that you will no longer be able to claim that you are a lawful, responsible citizen and you deserve to have the overly restrictive laws changed to whereas you can more easily buy and own guns as well as lobby for a CCW law for your state.
I recall the Founding Fathers being called that once. I don't think that would bother me as much as it would you, I think.....
quote:Probably be better to follow the present unjust laws and join with other like-minded people and get the laws changed for the better. But I warn you that such action will require more than most people are willing to give. That would be that instead of keeping their money in their pockets, or spending it on fun toys, they instead spend some money helping organizations (or start your own) that work towards helping gun rights. In addition it will require you to spend time and effort protesting, writing letters to your government representatives and to the media and just working to change attitudes in general in order to finally get your rights.
I'll drink to this.. If you don't fight the soft war, and go straight to the hard war, your lack of actions may cost you more than what freedom was worth to begin with.
But when it fails, and genocide looms for the likely political dissidents, the most common target for genocide, kill all who stand in the way of freedom....0 -
Floating this question before us here is tantamount to asking US to commit a crime ..don't you think ?
My answer is;
Each man must make his own decision.and live by the consequences that develop.
YOU PERSONALLY must decide if your safety is more important then the resultant endless stream of condemnation from society.and many gun-owners, also.as they whine about how `you drag GOOD people down into the mudd'.as they admit tacitly that they themselves have not the courage to resist, even covertly.and most likely wouldn't resist an armed criminal, ANYWAY.
The brutal facts are.if you carry, and are discovered ..kiss your education goodbye ..be prepared for either tens of thousands of dollars fighting the charge.or a quite possible extended stay with Bubba.and the loss permanently of what is laughingly called your "Gun Rights" by people that should be smart enough to see the difference between `Rights' and `privilege'.but aren't.0 -
OR, take your family and move out of Illinois. The Republic Of Illinois cares NOT for the rights of Law Abiding Citizens. I'm gone just as soon as i can.... 0 -
highball you aint committing a crime by any means, the decision is mine and mine alone, i was just after advice
And tech, if I had the means to move I would...0 -
I would have to agree with tech. Move as soon as you can. 0 -
Hell if I could afford to move I would have a long time ago... I will be out of here in a about two years if things go well 0 -
Call the police and report a disturbance and enter when they get there 0 -
quote:Originally posted by gunphreak
quote:If you break the law and get caught you then become a member of the "criminal class" of society. At that point two things happen to you. One, you may lose your right forever to either/or own firearms or more likely to ever get a CCW; either in another state or in the case that you state finally starts offering CCW.
Wrong!!! Being a free man enables you to be free and carry as you wish. You know what will happen if caught, but it is still your right.
quote:The other thing that happens to you is that you will no longer be able to claim that you are a lawful, responsible citizen and you deserve to have the overly restrictive laws changed to whereas you can more easily buy and own guns as well as lobby for a CCW law for your state.
I recall the Founding Fathers being called that once. I don't think that would bother me as much as it would you, I think.....
quote:Probably be better to follow the present unjust laws and join with other like-minded people and get the laws changed for the better. But I warn you that such action will require more than most people are willing to give. That would be that instead of keeping their money in their pockets, or spending it on fun toys, they instead spend some money helping organizations (or start your own) that work towards helping gun rights. In addition it will require you to spend time and effort protesting, writing letters to your government representatives and to the media and just working to change attitudes in general in order to finally get your rights.
I'll drink to this.. If you don't fight the soft war, and go straight to the hard war, your lack of actions may cost you more than what freedom was worth to begin with.
But when it fails, and genocide looms for the likely political dissidents, the most common target for genocide, kill all who stand in the way of freedom....
You have expressed your opinions to me and others before. How many times have you stood before a judge while in shackles and expressed your opinions to that judge? And what happened after you expressed your opinions? Was the judge and prosecuter suddenly swayed to your way of thinking and they immediately released you from custody?
Or, it more likely you have never had your idealistic ideas actually bump into reality and be tested in the real world?0 -
First of all, in your state possessing a firearm on school property will probably get you thrown in jail. Second a handgun in your bookbag will not be readily available should you have to use it to defend your life. Its a false sense of security that can get you killed. I am a missouri resident and have a CCW. i have had to draw my sidearm on a few occassions and thank god that i havent had to shoot anyone. The presence of the gun stopped the threat. The only gun that will help you is a gun in your hand at the time of the attack or one you can have an instant access to. the bookbag draw will be way to slow if needed. You should always be alert to what is going on around you and avoid any conflict that you can. I understand that isnt always able to be done and a fight must happen to protect yourself, loved ones, or others that are unable to protect themselves. I would look into one of the many "less lethal" forms of protection. I have used them several times with good result. Just make sure it is legal to possess and use in your area. I by no means am implying that less lethal means should be used against a deadly attack as a primary defense but in your area the powers that be are keeping you from doing it right. you have to use what you are comfortable with. If you carry a gun and have to use it you will more than likely be charged with a felony weapons charge for having a gun at school. Nobody wants to survive a fight and go to jail because of the means they used to win the fight. You are in a tough situation. 0 -
I would rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6 0 -
quote:Originally posted by tr fox
quote:Originally posted by gunphreak
quote:If you break the law and get caught you then become a member of the "criminal class" of society. At that point two things happen to you. One, you may lose your right forever to either/or own firearms or more likely to ever get a CCW; either in another state or in the case that you state finally starts offering CCW.
Wrong!!! Being a free man enables you to be free and carry as you wish. You know what will happen if caught, but it is still your right.
quote:The other thing that happens to you is that you will no longer be able to claim that you are a lawful, responsible citizen and you deserve to have the overly restrictive laws changed to whereas you can more easily buy and own guns as well as lobby for a CCW law for your state.
I recall the Founding Fathers being called that once. I don't think that would bother me as much as it would you, I think.....
quote:Probably be better to follow the present unjust laws and join with other like-minded people and get the laws changed for the better. But I warn you that such action will require more than most people are willing to give. That would be that instead of keeping their money in their pockets, or spending it on fun toys, they instead spend some money helping organizations (or start your own) that work towards helping gun rights. In addition it will require you to spend time and effort protesting, writing letters to your government representatives and to the media and just working to change attitudes in general in order to finally get your rights.
I'll drink to this.. If you don't fight the soft war, and go straight to the hard war, your lack of actions may cost you more than what freedom was worth to begin with.
But when it fails, and genocide looms for the likely political dissidents, the most common target for genocide, kill all who stand in the way of freedom....
You have expressed your opinions to me and others before. How many times have you stood before a judge while in shackles and expressed your opinions to that judge? And what happened after you expressed your opinions? Was the judge and prosecuter suddenly swayed to your way of thinking and they immediately released you from custody?
Or, it more likely you have never had your idealistic ideas actually bump into reality and be tested in the real world?
Up to this point, I've not been caught doing anything objectionable, but my point of view was pivotal in getting custody of my kid. There was a lot of discussion about my firearms in that, all was drudged up specifically to make me look like a crazed latent killer. It didn't fly.
So, let me turn the table on this, and see if you understand this new point of view. If you die, none of this matters to you anymore. If you live, you can still fight for freedom. I've fought against all odds once, already, and emerged victorious. I have no problem doing it again if I must. Only when I am dead, will death force me from the fight. How about you???0 -
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quote:Originally posted by gunphreak
quote:Originally posted by tr fox
quote:Originally posted by gunphreak
quote:If you break the law and get caught you then become a member of the "criminal class" of society. At that point two things happen to you. One, you may lose your right forever to either/or own firearms or more likely to ever get a CCW; either in another state or in the case that you state finally starts offering CCW.
Wrong!!! Being a free man enables you to be free and carry as you wish. You know what will happen if caught, but it is still your right.
quote:The other thing that happens to you is that you will no longer be able to claim that you are a lawful, responsible citizen and you deserve to have the overly restrictive laws changed to whereas you can more easily buy and own guns as well as lobby for a CCW law for your state.
I recall the Founding Fathers being called that once. I don't think that would bother me as much as it would you, I think.....
quote:Probably be better to follow the present unjust laws and join with other like-minded people and get the laws changed for the better. But I warn you that such action will require more than most people are willing to give. That would be that instead of keeping their money in their pockets, or spending it on fun toys, they instead spend some money helping organizations (or start your own) that work towards helping gun rights. In addition it will require you to spend time and effort protesting, writing letters to your government representatives and to the media and just working to change attitudes in general in order to finally get your rights.
I'll drink to this.. If you don't fight the soft war, and go straight to the hard war, your lack of actions may cost you more than what freedom was worth to begin with.
But when it fails, and genocide looms for the likely political dissidents, the most common target for genocide, kill all who stand in the way of freedom....
You have expressed your opinions to me and others before. How many times have you stood before a judge while in shackles and expressed your opinions to that judge? And what happened after you expressed your opinions? Was the judge and prosecuter suddenly swayed to your way of thinking and they immediately released you from custody?
Or, it more likely you have never had your idealistic ideas actually bump into reality and be tested in the real world?
Up to this point, I've not been caught doing anything objectionable, but my point of view was pivotal in getting custody of my kid. There was a lot of discussion about my firearms in that, all was drudged up specifically to make me look like a crazed latent killer. It didn't fly.
So, let me turn the table on this, and see if you understand this new point of view. If you die, none of this matters to you anymore. If you live, you can still fight for freedom. I've fought against all odds once, already, and emerged victorious. I have no problem doing it again if I must. Only when I am dead, will death force me from the fight. How about you???
Unlike some, I would not change what I say/have said even if I was standing as the accused, in courtroom, and my freedom depended upon what I said.0 -
quote:Unlike some, I would not change what I say/have said even if I was standing as the accused, in courtroom, and my freedom depended upon what I said.
Why ever would you change what you said ? You parrot the government line..that ensures your complete safty.
Wonder if you would say the same thing before a court of Founders ?You know..the ones you spit on ?
Course..you would STILL be safe. Just held up as a fine example of what the Founders warned against.0 -
quote:Originally posted by Highball
quote:Unlike some, I would not change what I say/have said even if I was standing as the accused, in courtroom, and my freedom depended upon what I said.
Why ever would you change what you said ? You parrot the government line..that ensures your complete safty.
Wonder if you would say the same thing before a court of Founders ?You know..the ones you spit on ?
Course..you would STILL be safe. Just held up as a fine example of what the Founders warned against.
Geez S. Crist Highball. Can't you see how radical you have become? You know damn good and well I do not go around "spitting" on people (in red above).
Please come back to planet reasonable and rational and maybe then we can talk.0 -
"Spitting upon" is a figurative term.
Or not.
When you read the words of the founders, yet still insist that the government has the right and duty to restrict firearms.what then would YOU call it ?
Your continuing, unceasing attacks upon those of us insisting that the Second says what it means, and means what it says ..snide little remarks you cleverly feel will slip right thru the ribs without anyone but you being the wiser.
What do you call THAT ?
Radical ????
Thank you kindly, Sir.
That is EXACTLY the term used to describe the Founders..by Loyalists/Subjects/ and the Kings Men.0 -
quote:Originally posted by Highball
"Spitting upon" is a figurative term.
Or not.
When you read the words of the founders, yet still insist that the government has the right and duty to restrict firearms.what then would YOU call it ?
Your continuing, unceasing attacks upon those of us insisting that the Second says what it means, and means what it says ..snide little remarks you cleverly feel will slip right thru the ribs without anyone but you being the wiser.
What do you call THAT ?
Radical ????
Thank you kindly, Sir.
That is EXACTLY the term used to describe the Founders..by Loyalists/Subjects/ and the Kings Men.
Sign.....................OK, if it makes you feel better Highball.0 -
You took the gloves off awhile back...with your comparing we that support the Constitution to the Islomofascists that roam the earth.
From that moment on..there is no quarter asked...and none given.0 -
quote:Originally posted by Highball
You took the gloves off awhile back...with your comparing we that support the Constitution to the Islomofascists that roam the earth.
From that moment on..there is no quarter asked...and none given.
I don't recall making any comparsion quite like that. But in your angry, paranoid mind I am sure you believe I did. So continue to believe it since it seems to please you so much.0 -
This is just one of several..I have no intention of re-reading all your priceless pearls you have cast before swine....
quote:tr foxAdvanced Member USA10715 Posts Posted - 03/15/2008 : 2:54:02 PM
quote: Yep, in some people's mind, gentlemenly disagreement is fine. Until you disagree with something they don't want you to disagree about. Kinda like the Taliban and Islam.
20,000 ++++ gunlaws..another passed a couple weeks ago with the invaluble aid of the NRA...and I an 'angry, paranoid ?"
Yeah..I expect ANY American to be ANGRY...and a bit MORE then paranoid .
How about YOU ?0 -
quote:Originally posted by tr fox
I don't recall making any comparsion quite like that.
Looks like that is EXACTLY the comparison you made.
Is your recall clearing a bit?0 -
quote:Originally posted by Highball
This is just one of several..I have no intention of re-reading all your priceless pearls you have cast before swine....
quote:tr foxAdvanced Member USA10715 Posts Posted - 03/15/2008 : 2:54:02 PM
quote: Yep, in some people's mind, gentlemenly disagreement is fine. Until you disagree with something they don't want you to disagree about. Kinda like the Taliban and Islam.
20,000 ++++ gunlaws..another passed a couple weeks ago with the invaluble aid of the NRA...and I an 'angry, paranoid ?"
Yeah..I expect ANY American to be ANGRY...and a bit MORE then paranoid .
How about YOU ?
So, Highball (and others) apparently decided to voluntarily include themselves into the red above. And after they smear themselves with that criticism, Highball and Pickenup come back and blame me? Typical.
At least I have taken the high road for not having whined like a baby when Highball and others have DIRECTLY called me a "government bootlicker, a traitor, a turncoat", and on and on.
So go ahead and whine you babies.0 -
quote:when Highball and others have DIRECTLY called me a "government bootlicker, a traitor, a turncoat", and on and on.
Seems about right.
As far as me and others 'whining' about things you say ..You mistake outrage for whimpering.
Whimpering being what you NRA types do on a regular basis, as your heroes in the government and NRA saddle you with more regulations.
(But I don't WANT my name revealed in the paper as a CCW holder) wahhhh.
This is a fine example also about just how cleaver you think you are.
"So, Highball (and others) apparently decided to voluntarily include themselves into the red above. And after they smear themselves with that criticism, Highball and Pickenup come back and blame me? Typical."
Stick a knife in our ribs ..then simper about it wasn't ' meant for us.'
Sure.
I believe you, Fox ..really, I do.
Not.
But then ..that is what one has come to expect from the NRA in general.and mad-dog supporters in particular.
Once again ..in spite of the hard words between us ..you have the option.
Support the Constitution ..support the Second Amendment.
You are not arguing with ME. You are denouncing the Founders as you support governmental controls and the NRA.0 -
Well, with out all of this three year old sniping back in forth about verbiage, let's get back to the man's original question.
Here is your quandary. The Law of the land states that you cannot carry in Illinois with out some pretty draconian sucking up, or not for any reason. Your worried about protecting your self and think that despite the law(or rather in spite of the law) a firearm is the option that you should choose. A couple of points to make here with out getting off of your question. I've been teaching combat handgunning as a self-defence method for a couple of decades and I DO live in a state that lets you carry a firearm if you want to. Matter of fact, I'm right next door to your east.
Now with Thirty + years of Military, Law Enforcement and civilian contracting experience, guess what is my particular self defence choice?
Guy, I'm not trying to tell you your business here, but sometimes a firearm is NOT the best choice. You can what if possible situations here to death, ( such as "What if the guy is shooting at me from distance?" answer: DUCK and RUN!)but as a couple of folks here who actually took the time to address your question mentioned, the book bag is a BAD IDEA. Lots of reasons. For the folks out there who have actually carried for any length of time will tell you, carrying a gun is a pain in the ass! At best, I would carry my Airweight, because it would not jam, had a big enough round to stop some one, and did not weigh a freaking ton. This is a consideration if you are serious and are going to do this, because if you don't think about these things, you will buy a cannon, carry it for a while, get tired of the damn thing, and leave it in your vehicle or your sock drawer. Might as well still be on the shelf at the gun shop. The aforementioned preference is legal where you live, and with a little training at a local qualified martial arts dojo, can be WAY more effective than that gun that you will soon get sick of carrying, and you CAN make carrying the cutter a habit.
Brother, each his own, not to tell you your business, but I'd rather see you in at least a loin cloth than completely naked.
Dave0 -
Getting back to crash's question:
I'm in a similar situation. I have a CCW permit, but I don't carry on campus due to the risk of getting caught. I know someone who does on occasion.
The way I figure, I have several thousand dollars invested in my education......I'd lose it all if I got caught packing.
To me, it ain't worth it0 -
Same here,
I'm now a college professor and even with the CCW here in Indiana, the Feds say NO on campus! Sure as hell didn't help those poor students at those other schools. Still doesn't mean I won't shank someones ass if they move on me or mine.
Don't have to like it, do have to abide by it. Otherwise I'm part of the problem.
For all of you big talkers out there, that's your right. I served so you can. Bitch all you want about this country's laws, but either get active and change them, abide by them, get caught breaking them and go to jail, or move your ass somewhere else. There is no fifth way.
By all means, burn off some passion here, but I'd rather see you take that fire to your congressman..........Keep those pukes honest.
Dave0
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