help me do some burglar brainstorming
solid core door, 1-3/4" thick, on six hinges, three deadbolts, and a locking doorknob.
closes like a bank vault.
I figure the lower half is the strike zone when someone ...tries... to kick it in. it's a work in progress, so I still have to put the last 2 hinges on. the three on bottom are good for now.
why six hinges? because they come in packs of three.
and they're security hinges. they have a hump in the middle so even if they take out the pin, they won't seperate.
why three deadbolts? because NOBODY is going to be able to kick in this door.
why the metal plates on the deadbolts? so the wood cannot be broken. the metal holds it together.
why double cylinders, instead of a turn knob? because it's locked on the inside too, so when they come in through the window they won't be able to carry the loot out the back door. it's locked. ha. ha. ha. they have to carry that TV right back out the window, or out the front door.
one little problem. what if they come in the window?
if they get a phillips screwdriver they can take the screws out, remove the locks, and open the door.
I went to Home Depot, Lowe's, Ace Hardware and Fastenal looking for the same screws with a torx, square or hex head so they can't be unscrewed so easily. nobody has them.
I can use Loctite, but then I can't get them off either.
how can I keep these deadbolts from being unscrewed.
closes like a bank vault.
I figure the lower half is the strike zone when someone ...tries... to kick it in. it's a work in progress, so I still have to put the last 2 hinges on. the three on bottom are good for now.
why six hinges? because they come in packs of three.
and they're security hinges. they have a hump in the middle so even if they take out the pin, they won't seperate.
why three deadbolts? because NOBODY is going to be able to kick in this door.
why the metal plates on the deadbolts? so the wood cannot be broken. the metal holds it together.
why double cylinders, instead of a turn knob? because it's locked on the inside too, so when they come in through the window they won't be able to carry the loot out the back door. it's locked. ha. ha. ha. they have to carry that TV right back out the window, or out the front door.
one little problem. what if they come in the window?
if they get a phillips screwdriver they can take the screws out, remove the locks, and open the door.
I went to Home Depot, Lowe's, Ace Hardware and Fastenal looking for the same screws with a torx, square or hex head so they can't be unscrewed so easily. nobody has them.
I can use Loctite, but then I can't get them off either.
how can I keep these deadbolts from being unscrewed.
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Drill the center out. If you ever need to remove them just use a Dremel tool to cut a slot in them. Don 0 -
Drill the heads, and if you have to remove them, use a stripped screw head remover. 0 -
100lb sand bag... 0 -
that's a good idea.TRAP55 wrote:Drill the heads, and if you have to remove them, use a stripped screw head remover.0 -
That's the one.
Ex wife had her own Makita, they invented that tool because of her!0 -
What is that pine door frame anchored to? It looks thin and vulnerable. 0 -
they said they don't make a 5/8x6" greentreated board, so that's what I'm stuck with.
it's held on with:
#16 nails every few inches staggered between both sides
#4 nails every few inches thru the door stop
the deadbolt striker plates are security, each has 6 screws, 3-1/2" long into the frame. three plates = 18 screws
and the doorknob striker plate has another 4 screws.0 -
You are VASTLY over-rating this door setup you have. That skimpy little piece of pine that the deadbolts go into is the weak link! It'll shatter like glass! If you want it to work, put a piece of METAL in there, and anchor that into the studs surrounding the door.
Trust me, kicking in a door is about 100x easier than you'd think.
Merc0 -
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Mercury wrote:You are VASTLY over-rating this door setup you have. That skimpy little piece of pine that the deadbolts go into is the weak link! It'll shatter like glass! If you want it to work, put a piece of METAL in there, and anchor that into the studs surrounding the door.
Trust me, kicking in a door is about 100x easier than you'd think.
Merc
Yep, without a metal door frame, all you have now is wasted effort.0 -
aw hell 0 -
Agree Merc. Taken down a few hundred over the years. Steel frames were the only really challenging ones. 0 -
nice effort and I get what your wanting to be secure or secure your goods
now just my 2 cents
if your home behind the door it will give you time to react call 911 confront the would be thief . if you want to go that route
if no one is home a portable saws all ( circular saw chain saw ) right thru the wood door locks and hinges will not account for crap when you make firewood out f the door
a local fellow ( well actually two I know ) on vacation one they cut the sides out of his safes 4 or 5 of them , using his tools :shock: :shock: then set fire to his house to cover it up
the other fellow they took the safe about 1500 pounds give or take Right out of his house and stole every thing that was not bolted down
both cases the culprit(s) were know to teh owners
just remember locks keep honest people honest out if some one wants in there going in .
not too many years ago they were cutting thru the sides of pole barns metal skin and taking all they could
forgot to add go to youtube many how to defeat locks in just seconds
short of a 2' thick steel reinforced concrete solid wall floor and ceiling and a bank vault door which rumor a lot of people have built into ther basements during new construction ( with just a heavy steel door not a vault door )
as for me some one breaks in they will most likely leave me stuff, feeling sorry for me0 -
Just get some strip of metal as trim or under trim and many sheetrock screws. that will hold the deadbolts from coming in 0 -
When I was 6'2" 369 lbs your new door and locks would have withstood my assault admirably...
But the surrounding support structure and doorframe and wall architecture would have yielded and failed and crumbled - and your new solid strong door and locks would have made a good platform to walk over...
Not picking on you on your work. I actually did what I have described once when locked out of a house - only able to gain access to the garage...
After 2 hits the top of the wall would move somewhat freely and on the third hit the doorframe failed. It was an older structure that had been subdivided and was formerly and interior grade door now meet as a partition between separate residential units...
It's worth thinking about - it's a common point of failure and often is missed or not considered in circumstances like yours.
Also consider a small weighted ram or door breacher - a weighted metal cylinder with handhold loops like law enforcement uses when entering to serve warrants or apprehend a fugitive...
The can punch a lock cylinder out through the door or shatter the locks support plate and punch it out as well...
Common fail point is not the door or the lock mech but the small weak brass plate that accepts the bolt in the frame - your lock might be anchored to a good door but how is the locks bolt received or anchored by the frame...
Next is the hinge side of the door - nobody expects an attack on that point and it's often not upgraded or reinforced - often totally forgotten and dismissed...
A small sledgehammer also does amazing damage in tight confines when wielded correctly...
You cannot think of everything and cannot secure against determined professionals with time and tools.
You seem to be handling this well and responding with care.
Please see my remarks as a devils advocate approach meant for your benefit.
Hope this helps at all.
Mike0 -
What's there to stop them from just going through the wall? 0 -
A crook, seeing all of those locks on a single door will know that there is something important inside. Making it an almost irresistible challenge. IMHO you are just setting yourself up for future criminal encounter. 0 -
Cut him some slack.
We all cannot move at the drop of the hat for any number of reasons...
He is doing the best he can with what he has were he is at - proactively and well thought out investment of time and money and materials and labor.
Tweekers and meth addicts and oxy abusers can be determined and clever and destructive and invasive much like an oversized squirrel.
Mike0 -
Quote; Tweekers and meth addicts and oxy abusers can be determined and clever and destructive and invasive much like an oversized squirrel.
I have a CURE for all them varmint's Mike! They don't call this place GUN Broker GD forum for nothin'0 -
We had some fine criminals kicking in the door of our rental house in Atlanta. And we had 2 deadbolts on it. These criminals broke the 2x4 stud that formed the frame of the door because the door wouldn't break.
So I rebuilt the door frame, and I made studs out of oak, they can't kick in two an oak stud. They tried but couldn't do it.0 -
Use piano hinges. Much stronger. 0 -
We had a couple in the neighborhood that tried to use the same ideas you have. One night they had a house fire and the fire companies found them both dead at the door with the keys to the locks on the lampstand next to the door. They couldn't find the keys in the heat and the smoke and died right there, locked inside their fortress.
To heck with the TV and the rest if they want them they will get them, nothing is worth dying over.0 -
If I had a solid core monolithic door with no windows - as pictured above...
The elaborate heavy duty plate protected deadbolt set - as pictured above...
Would have the locks key access on the outside and turn bolt knobs on the interior...
No keys needed for the occupant to exit - can be operated quickly in total blackout conditions or by a blind person...
Why key the interior or obverse of the locket - who are you looking inside the house???
No offense but that's a home owner fail or operator error.
Or do I misunderstand or just not get it???
Mike0 -
metal frame >>>> metal door........in concrete /steel walls and alarms to local LEO and no way to get to it with a vehicle to ram it 0 -
A real burglar could be inside in less than 60 seconds. A chainsaw or sawzall cut between the door locks and hinges and bingo the door opens on the hinges. Nothing is burglar proof. It can be cut, torched, or blown up go gain entry. Metal door included. 0 -
I'm sorry,but what I see in the picture,would be kicked in still attached to the frame. A secure door starts with double studs at the rough opening. Then use a steel frame with steel door. 0 -
Sawsall will go through any wood door in under a minute. 0 -
plaster & lathe. they could, but it won't be easy and they might give up after 15 minutes of that.Toolman286 wrote:What's there to stop them from just going through the wall?
nah, there are so many burglaries in this neigborhood they will probably figure someone got sick of it. anyways crooks around here are not over-acheivers, they are crack/meth addicted deadbeats.Brookwood wrote:A crook, seeing all of those locks on a single door will know that there is something important inside. Making it an almost irresistible challenge. IMHO you are just setting yourself up for future criminal encounter.
I would have done that, with 4 2x4's, 2 4x4's or something, but it's plaster & lathe. too much work, time, and money to put it all back together.allen griggs wrote:We had some fine criminals kicking in the door of our rental house in Atlanta. And we had 2 deadbolts on it. These criminals broke the 2x4 stud that formed the frame of the door because the door wouldn't break.
So I rebuilt the door frame, and I made studs out of oak, they can't kick in two an oak stud. They tried but couldn't do it.
not worried about it. I can go out the front door.likemhot wrote:We had a couple in the neighborhood that tried to use the same ideas you have. One night they had a house fire and the fire companies found them both dead at the door with the keys to the locks on the lampstand next to the door. They couldn't find the keys in the heat and the smoke and died right there, locked inside their fortress.
To heck with the TV and the rest if they want them they will get them, nothing is worth dying over.
so they can't carry the loot out the back door, which seems to be their MO. have to take all the stuff out the window (difficult/impossible) or out the front door (in plain sight).mrmike08075 wrote:Why key the interior or obverse of the locket - who are you looking inside the house???
No offense but that's a home owner fail or operator error.
Or do I misunderstand or just not get it???
Mike
if I had that much money, I wouldn't be living in a neighborhood like this!spasmcreek wrote:metal frame >>>> metal door........in concrete /steel walls and alarms to local LEO and no way to get to it with a vehicle to ram it
thinking about screwing on 3 or 4 flat metal bars for that reason. when they hit the first one, they won't know what the problem is and keep going. the blade will be wrecked and very, very dull.select-fire wrote:A real burglar could be inside in less than 60 seconds. A chainsaw or sawzall cut between the door locks and hinges and bingo the door opens on the hinges. Nothing is burglar proof. It can be cut, torched, or blown up go gain entry. Metal door included.
it does have double studs. I can't afford a steel door.montanajoe wrote:I'm sorry,but what I see in the picture,would be kicked in still attached to the frame. A secure door starts with double studs at the rough opening. Then use a steel frame with steel door.
theives in the 'hood aren't that sophisticated and the targets are low value. they might have basic tools like a screwdriver, butterknife or ?? but I doubt they could afford a cordless sawzall. those would be rich theives breaking into rich houses.truthful wrote:Sawsall will go through any wood door in under a minute.
lots and lots of burglaries around here, but all I ever hear about is kicking in doors. never hear about them using saws, hammers, crowbars, etc0 -
I like those New York Locks. It's a The ones that goes in the middle of the door and it has two 2x4 looking bars that slide out to the door jamb.
http://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&id=55FD6814E58D5DD8EC0C8A8E9B6842A72355D023&thid=OIP.ZfZkjXx7v9PSzJoDaRmaggHaFx&mediaurl=http://sohomemory.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/foxpolicelock.jpg&exph=312&expw=400&q=new+york+door+lock&selectedindex=0&ajaxhist=0&vt=00 -
Move! 0
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