Rescind Medals of Honor from soldiers at Wounded Knee
Lawmakers seek to rescind Medals of Honor from soldiers at Wounded Knee massacre
Three House members are calling for Congress to posthumously rescind Medals of Honor awarded to 20 U.S. soldiers who participated in the 1890 Wounded Knee massacre, where an estimated 250 Native Americans -- mostly women and children -- were killed.
Rep. Paul Cook, R-Calif., and Democrats Denny Heck of Washington and Deb Haaland of New Mexico introduced the Remove the Stain bill Tuesday to strip the soldiers of America's highest military award.
?It bothers me as a professional military person and as a historian ? with not only the massacre and the slaughter and with everything that happened to a group of people, but basically to perpetuate a lie that is associated with the highest award we have for valor,? said Cook, a decorated Marine veteran of the Vietnam War, according to the Washington Times.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/lawmakers-seek-to-rescind-medals-of-honor-from-soldiers-at-wounded-knee-massacre
Three House members are calling for Congress to posthumously rescind Medals of Honor awarded to 20 U.S. soldiers who participated in the 1890 Wounded Knee massacre, where an estimated 250 Native Americans -- mostly women and children -- were killed.
Rep. Paul Cook, R-Calif., and Democrats Denny Heck of Washington and Deb Haaland of New Mexico introduced the Remove the Stain bill Tuesday to strip the soldiers of America's highest military award.
?It bothers me as a professional military person and as a historian ? with not only the massacre and the slaughter and with everything that happened to a group of people, but basically to perpetuate a lie that is associated with the highest award we have for valor,? said Cook, a decorated Marine veteran of the Vietnam War, according to the Washington Times.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/lawmakers-seek-to-rescind-medals-of-honor-from-soldiers-at-wounded-knee-massacre
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A better way may be to honor the Native Americans in some way.
What was done at the time may have seemed correct with the views of the people.0 -
beneteau wrote:Lawmakers seek to rescind Medals of Honor from soldiers at Wounded Knee massacre
?It bothers me as a professional military person and as a historian ? with not only the massacre and the slaughter and with everything that happened to a group of people, but basically to perpetuate a lie that is associated with the highest award we have for valor,? said Cook, a decorated Marine veteran of the Vietnam War, according to the Washington Times.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/lawmakers-seek-to-rescind-medals-of-honor-from-soldiers-at-wounded-knee-massacre
I agree with this statement.
The fact there were "20 Medals of Honor," awarded with this debacle is ridiculous.
Save it for Soldiers who have actually "Earned it."0 -
WELL lets just change all of history to placate our pussy people .....rite or rong ...... HAPPY NOW ?????????? 0 -
spasmcreek wrote:WELL lets just change all of history to placate our pussy people .....rite or rong ...... HAPPY NOW ??????????
Take it as you will Sir.
It is the right thing to do, in my humble opinion.
You are okay with "20 Medals of Honor," being awarded for this travesty? Personally, I am not.
Standing up to the plate. You?0 -
there has to be a better way to deal with a 129 YEAR OLD event than our current mascochism of political correctness.... maybe give each of the relatives????? a million dollars each...would u sleep better now ??? GOD help us if the democrats get ahold of this before the election 0 -
spasmcreek wrote:there has to be a better way to deal with a 129 YEAR OLD event than our current mascochism of political correctness.... maybe give each of the relatives????? a million dollars each...would u sleep better now ??? GOD help us if the democrats get ahold of this before the election
No.
A "Million dollars each," is not a move in the right/correct direction.
Stripping those undeserving of a "Medal of Honor," is a move - in the right direction.
(Again) Your view may differ.
This debacle, was not a "Medal of Honor," worthy event. Never was, never will be.0 -
This would set a dangerous precedent, I view it in the same terms as tearing down memorials of our Nations history. 0 -
shilowar wrote:This would set a dangerous precedent, I view it in the same terms as tearing down memorials of our Nations history.
Sorry Sir, I personally believe you are wrong/incorrect.
This never was a "Medal of Honor," worthy event. The fact there were 20, handed out, was ludicrous.
Save them for the Soldiers, who actually earned them.
(Again) My Personal Opinion.0 -
A very large number have already been rescinded.
http://www.jmarkpowell.com/when-the-army-took-back-the-congressional-medal-of-honor-2/0 -
gruntled2 wrote:A very large number have already been rescinded.
http://www.jmarkpowell.com/when-the-army-took-back-the-congressional-medal-of-honor-2/
As should have been the case.0 -
i agree with you but there has to be a more productive solution.....one forgets to consider the thinking of that era which was to remove the natives from the expansion of all others into their territory...the AMERICAN govt never honored a SINGLE TREATY it made with native peoples....kill off the buffalo to remove their eats, clothing, and shelter...traders gave them blankets tainted with diseases and removed them to reservations to contain and starve and break their will.... i have detailed accounts of this event and others...my lake home in eastern kansas is a few short miles from one stop (on the Trail of Tears....where many starved and froze over winter.......and on and on, but hosting a paper ceremony is really meaningless unless u are a politician and bask in this .... 0 -
also Wounded Knee was simple revenge for Custers defeat.. Custer was a vain glory seeker who wanted a military victory to bolster his run for President......sounds quite familiar now many years later...... 0 -
spasmcreek wrote:also Wounded Knee was simple revenge for Custers defeat.. Custer was a vain glory seeker who wanted a military victory to bolster his run for President......sounds quite familiar now many years later......
Yes, that makes the slaughter of Women and Children okay, apparently.
Worthy of 20 "Medals of Honor."
Right?
(No. Not in the least.)0 -
KenK/84Bravo wrote:gruntled2 wrote:A very large number have already been rescinded.
http://www.jmarkpowell.com/when-the-army-took-back-the-congressional-medal-of-honor-2/
As should have been the case.
The majority of the 911 men that were awarded the MOH that was taken away didn't try to have it awarded to them in the first place and didn't do anything wrong. They figured, what the hell, if they think I deserve it then who am I to turn down such a big honor and so it was they accepted the metal as a lot of people would. Then years later when they were stripped of the metal it became a huge embarrassment to them for which they did not really deserve. The Army should have just let that dog lie. The politicians and the leaders in the Army were the ones that made the mistake not the soldiers themselves. That's just my opinion.0 -
Smitty500mag wrote:KenK/84Bravo wrote:gruntled2 wrote:A very large number have already been rescinded.
http://www.jmarkpowell.com/when-the-army-took-back-the-congressional-medal-of-honor-2/
As should have been the case.
The majority of the 911 men that were awarded the MOH that was taken away didn't try to have it awarded to them in the first place and didn't do anything wrong. They figured, what the hell, if they think I deserve it then who am I to turn down such a big honor and so it was they accepted the metal as a lot of people would. Then years later when they were stripped of the metal it became a huge embarrassment to them for which they did not really deserve. The Army should have just let that dog lie. The politicians and the leaders in the Army were the ones that made the mistake not the soldiers themselves. That's just my opinion.
If you "Know," You did not earn it, why accept it? (I believe I can pretty much can answer that.)
(And it's medal, by the way.)
This Honor, should go to our very Best of the Best.
(Not) to the BS, that transpired there. (20 "Medal of Honor?") For what transpired there? I think not.0 -
While I agree medals never should have been awarded to soldiers who perpetrated a massacre, presumably to avenge Custers troops, I seems to me that 143 years later, recinding them benefits no one. Leave it to history, we can all draw our own conclusions about the merit of the awards. I may not admire some of the Southern soldiers and statesmen (or some of the Northern ones for that matter), but the statues and sculptures are part of our history, and applying todays PC ethic is certainly revisionist, and regretable. 0 -
While I agree that those were probably not earned, I feel that it?s another attempt to judge people of the past by current standards.
Sure, they didn?t earn them. But as noted above, let that sleeping dog lie. And I?m not saying I agree with what was done at Wounded Knee.
While not exactly the same, this, to me, is in the same realm as the reparations BS being spewed. Yes, bad siht happened. But no one alive today had any part in it. Move on and learn from it.0 -
The rescid those medals is wrong in so many ways.
At the time, the American Indian was 'the enemy' and total elimination was thought by many as the best solution. Even Frank Baum who is noted for writing "The Wizard of Oz" stated "The only good Indian, is a dead Indian."
At this rate, with the 'rewriting of history' and proposals to pay reparations to negros 'cause over a century ago some were slaves, it won't be long and some loon will proclaim to rescind the Medals of Honor given the those who fought in WWI and in WWII because now we are friendly with the Germans and the Japanese.
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Quick&Dead wrote:The rescid those medals is wrong in so many ways.
At the time, the American Indian was 'the enemy' and total elimination was thought by many as the best solution. Even Frank Baum who is noted for writing "The Wizard of Oz" stated "The only good Indian, is a dead Indian."
At this rate, with the 'rewriting of history' and proposals to pay reparations to negros 'cause over a century ago some were slaves, it won't be long and some loon will proclaim to rescind the Medals of Honor given the those who fought in WWI and in WWII because now we are friendly with the Germans and the Japanese.
Sorry, not on the same track, even remotely.0 -
KenK/84Bravo wrote:Quick&Dead wrote:The rescid those medals is wrong in so many ways.
At the time, the American Indian was 'the enemy' and total elimination was thought by many as the best solution. Even Frank Baum who is noted for writing "The Wizard of Oz" stated "The only good Indian, is a dead Indian."
At this rate, with the 'rewriting of history' and proposals to pay reparations to negros 'cause over a century ago some were slaves, it won't be long and some loon will proclaim to rescind the Medals of Honor given the those who fought in WWI and in WWII because now we are friendly with the Germans and the Japanese.
Sorry, not on the same track, even remotely.0 -
KenK/84Bravo wrote:Quick&Dead wrote:The rescid those medals is wrong in so many ways.
At the time, the American Indian was 'the enemy' and total elimination was thought by many as the best solution. Even Frank Baum who is noted for writing "The Wizard of Oz" stated "The only good Indian, is a dead Indian."
At this rate, with the 'rewriting of history' and proposals to pay reparations to negros 'cause over a century ago some were slaves, it won't be long and some loon will proclaim to rescind the Medals of Honor given the those who fought in WWI and in WWII because now we are friendly with the Germans and the Japanese.
Sorry, not on the same track, even remotely.
So you are of the belief none of the Medal of Honor awards were given to our soldiers who shot and killed unarmed individuals.0 -
Quick&Dead wrote:KenK/84Bravo wrote:Quick&Dead wrote:The rescid those medals is wrong in so many ways.
At the time, the American Indian was 'the enemy' and total elimination was thought by many as the best solution. Even Frank Baum who is noted for writing "The Wizard of Oz" stated "The only good Indian, is a dead Indian."
At this rate, with the 'rewriting of history' and proposals to pay reparations to negros 'cause over a century ago some were slaves, it won't be long and some loon will proclaim to rescind the Medals of Honor given the those who fought in WWI and in WWII because now we are friendly with the Germans and the Japanese.
Sorry, not on the same track, even remotely.
So you are of the belief none of the Medal of Honor awards were given to our soldiers who shot and killed unarmed individuals.
So, .................Do you (honestly) believe 20 Medal of Honor recipients were warranted in this action?0 -
KenK/84Bravo wrote:Quick&Dead wrote:KenK/84Bravo wrote:
Sorry, not on the same track, even remotely.
So you are of the belief none of the Medal of Honor awards were given to our soldiers who shot and killed unarmed individuals.
So, .................Do you (honestly) believe 20 Medal of Honor recipients were warranted in this action?
It was a different time with different beliefs ..... (once people believed the world was flat and slavery was 1000% legal) ... and besides, I was not there nor involved in the decision making process to approve the awards. Nor was anyone else alive today.
In hindsight, many things look different - so it's a woulda, shoulda, coulda thing!
History should not be messed with .... same with tearing down statues of the Confederate soldiers.
My opinion.0 -
For what it's worth, a 1996 letter from John McCain, then Chairman of the Senate Committee on Indian Affairs, written to a Mr. Jordon Dill in reference to a petition to rescind the medals.
http://www.dickshovel.com/mccain.html
http://www.dickshovel.com/mccainrsp.html
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From: Senator John McCain - Chairman Senate Committee on Indian Affairs
Concerning: Rescindment of Medals of (dis)Honor
Date: June 24, 1996
Dear Mr. Dill,
Thank you for your recent letters, together with signatures and comments from other citizens via the Internet, proposing that Congress rescind seventeen Medals of Honor awarded to U.S. Army personnel for actions at Wounded Knee, South Dakota, on December 29, 1890, and at Drexel Mission on the following day.
I appreciate why you view with dismay the award of the nation's highest decoration for valor to soldiers of the United States Army for their individual efforts in an action that resulted in the death or wounding of as many as 370 Indian men, women and children. I also appreciate the concern that these awards can be viewed as diminishing the value of Medals of Honor awarded for conduct in other conflicts.
The policies and decisions of the United States Government that led to the Army's being at Wounded Knee in 1890 doubtless can be characterized as unjust, unwise, or worse. Nevertheless, a retrospective judgement that the Government's policies and actions were dishonorable does not warrant rescinding the medals awarded to individual soldiers for bravery in a brief, fierce fight in which 25 soldiers were killed and 45 others wounded. Neither today's standards for awarding the medal nor policies of the United States with regard to Indian tribes are what they were in 1890.
The criteria by which the Medal of Honor is awarded have changed greatly since the original, ambiguous, nineteenth century authorization for the medal that gave commanders a wide latitude in choosing men to receive it. Soldiers could even nominate themselves for the award, and did. Between 1891 and 1897, over 500 medals were awarded for actions in the Civil War, more than three decades earlier. These awards led to the formation of the Medal of Honor Legion, and organization of recipients concerned that wholesale bestowal of the award was weakening the medal's prestige.
In part due to the efforts of the Medal of Honor Legion, President Wilson in 1916 signed a law that clarified the procedures and standards of proof for awarding the Medal of Honor. To receive the medal, one must demonstrate distinguished gallantry or intrepity, at the risk of life, above and beyond the call of duty. The 1916 law also provided for a board of retired generals to review each of the 2,625 Army medals awarded for conduct during campaigns against Indian tribes between 1861 and 198, including Wounded Knee. As a result of this review, 911 medals were rescinded, all because the recipients were judged not to have distinguished themselves in combat and at the risk of their lives.
In 1990, in an unprecedented action the 101st Congress passed Senate COncurrent Resolution 153, which apologized to the Sioux people for the Wounded Knee massacre and expressed support for the establishment of a "suitable and appropriate memorial to those who were tragically slain at Wounded Knee." Since then, descendents of the Wounded Knee victims and survivors, the Oglala Sioux and Cheyenne River Sioux tribal governments, the State of South Dakota, Members of Congress and the U.S. Department of the Interior have considered a number of proposals, including a National Tribal Park, as an appropriate memorial.
While a consensus on a Wounded Knee memorial proposal remains elusive, efforts to achieve such a consensus are continuing. I support these efforts in the belief that establishing a well-conceived memorial to the victims of Wounded Knee is much preferable to attempting to strip long-dead soldiers of a medal which they might not merit under today's standards.
Sincerely,
John McCain - Chairman0 -
shilowar wrote:This would set a dangerous precedent, I view it in the same terms as tearing down memorials of our Nations history.
This is what Dictators do. Rewrite / revise and destroy History. Guess many are getting ready to get on the Democratic Plantation. They must like the feel of the power.0 -
I would have to agree with this. let bygones be be bygones, can't second guess everything that has ever been done, can't revise all of history whenever the current political climate changes.shilowar wrote:This would set a dangerous precedent, I view it in the same terms as tearing down memorials of our Nations history.
and jeez don't they have something better to do?
disclaimer: I don't like what happened and I really don't see how they got Medals of Honor for it.0 -
I say let sleeping dogs lie. We all know it was a dark day in our history. "Abuse of Power" Ranks right up there with Ruby Ridge and Waco. 0 -
this hoopla sure validates George Orwell's book 1984.... 0 -
Hell's Bells!!! I say 'we' review ALL the MOH awards and rescind as many as 'we' can!!! I personally would like to see Dugout Douglas MacArthur's MOH rescinded. 0 -
"The Medal of Honor is the United States of America's highest and most prestigious personal military decoration that may be awarded to recognize U.S. military service members who have distinguished themselves by acts of valor.[4] The medal is normally awarded by the President of the United States in the name of the U.S. Congress...."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medal_of_Honor
To have awarded the medals (for bravery) to soldiers serving their country, at a very different time and place (1890), then, people, not alive at that time, to consider rescinding the medals is the utmost in Despicable!
Second guessing and changing history on a snow-flakery whim is not allowed!
However, I'm certain...130 years from now...after the muslims have taken over the USA, they too, will rewrite the history books. :shock:0
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