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Rescind Medals of Honor from soldiers at Wounded Knee

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Lawmakers seek to rescind Medals of Honor from soldiers at Wounded Knee massacre

Three House members are calling for Congress to posthumously rescind Medals of Honor awarded to 20 U.S. soldiers who participated in the 1890 Wounded Knee massacre, where an estimated 250 Native Americans -- mostly women and children -- were killed.

Rep. Paul Cook, R-Calif., and Democrats Denny Heck of Washington and Deb Haaland of New Mexico introduced the Remove the Stain bill Tuesday to strip the soldiers of America's highest military award.

?It bothers me as a professional military person and as a historian ? with not only the massacre and the slaughter and with everything that happened to a group of people, but basically to perpetuate a lie that is associated with the highest award we have for valor,? said Cook, a decorated Marine veteran of the Vietnam War, according to the Washington Times.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/lawmakers-seek-to-rescind-medals-of-honor-from-soldiers-at-wounded-knee-massacre
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71 comments

Date Votes
  • select-fire
    Change History and get rid of the jerks trying to do it.
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  • Marc1301
    buschmaster wrote:
    shilowar wrote:
    This would set a dangerous precedent, I view it in the same terms as tearing down memorials of our Nations history.
    I would have to agree with this. let bygones be be bygones, can't second guess everything that has ever been done, can't revise all of history whenever the current political climate changes.

    and jeez don't they have something better to do?

    disclaimer: I don't like what happened and I really don't see how they got Medals of Honor for it.
    Saves me from writing a full response.
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  • Alpine
    Why not deal with a current problem, we certainly have one or two.

    Or we ca go down a road that was written before any of us were born. And that road has no end.
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  • Sam06
    KenK/84Bravo wrote:
    gruntled2 wrote:




    As should have been the case.

    Yea but the 20 from wounded knee met their criteria........................in 1917

    Different times, different attitudes.

    We also stole their land, killed their buffalo and starved them, then we disarmed and dehumanized them and put them on reservations hoping they would die.

    The "Massacre" was done by the 7th Cavalry, they killed around 300 Sioux, they suffered about 80 casualties so it wasn't a massacre like Mia Lay. You have to remember the Sioux were members of an affiliate tribe that "Massacred" Custer and Little Bighorn, In fact the Chiefs were related. The Sioux had left the reservation, were armed and trying to link up with another tribe. They were also practicing a religion called the ghost dance. The Ghost Dance was a type of religion that would make the white man leave.

    What I am leading up to is the soldiers, like soldiers everywhere were scared, mad and hated their enemy who had been dehumanized in their eyes and when a shot was fired it was on like donkey kong.

    As far as "Taking Back" the CMH from those guys just because they were there and followed their orders against a potentially hostile force...............


    I am indifferent about it. I have seen plenty of people get awards for doing jack chit and others who did heroic deeds get nothing.

    Let sleeping dogs lie. Superman is the only guy who can right all wrongs and as far as I am concerned the US Congress has bigger fish to fry than this. That is one of the problems in this country right now, people keep digging up all the the bad stuff we did as a nation and not celebrating all the good things.

    What we did to the Indians was bad and there is nothing we can do today to make it right.
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  • hillbille
    KenK/84Bravo wrote:
    Quick&Dead wrote:
    The rescid those medals is wrong in so many ways.

    At the time, the American Indian was 'the enemy' and total elimination was thought by many as the best solution. Even Frank Baum who is noted for writing "The Wizard of Oz" stated "The only good Indian, is a dead Indian."

    At this rate, with the 'rewriting of history' and proposals to pay reparations to negros 'cause over a century ago some were slaves, it won't be long and some loon will proclaim to rescind the Medals of Honor given the those who fought in WWI and in WWII because now we are friendly with the Germans and the Japanese.

    :lol:




    Sorry, not on the same track, even remotely.
    while I would agree with you, I also disagree, it is the same track to these modern day liberals who want to appologize to the masses for anything that may have happened god knows how many years ago. and make everyone feel good. gotta wonder how many of the MOH winners kids may have went to west point or got some kind of benefit from their dads medal either directly or inderectly, maybe better job, promotion ect, maybe what they did was wrong to you and me but at the time it was the right thing to do, gotta remember it was a different world that WE DID NOT LIVE IN, and it is easy now to look back and say they did wrong but at the time it seemed right.

    with the likes of Obammy and that crazy AOC taking over the political scene it won't be long till they try to take away medals from WWII or maybe even try to remove the Arizona for leaking oil into the ocean. I wouldn't put anything past this bunch who are running the country today.....I would agree with you that I think today they give out to many medals for basically being there, one example was Jessica Lynch, she lived just a few miles from us, and while I think she did go through a very rough time, it was basically because she got lost from the convoy and got capture, I don't think she ever fired a round back, and yes she was then beaten and tortured but with the exception of living through the ordeal she wasn't any type of hero, or did anything heroic to save lives of the others involved yet she got medal for such.
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  • spasmcreek
    when the muslims are given AMERICA......guess who will be massacred... ALL the infidels ......
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  • bullshot
    Not going to get "wordy" here except to say that I agree with Ken 100%
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  • He Dog
    Ken you are mostly the lone ranger here with agreement from a few. I see nothing that would be redressed by the move. No one killed would live again, No wrong would actually be righted, we would only change the writing on 100 year old paper. Today no one remembers the names of those who were awarded medals for murder, but the names of most of the victims are remembered.


    Chief Big Foot and his wife, Horned Cloud and his wife, William Horned Cloud, Sherman Horned Cloud, Pretty Enemy, Mrs. Beard, Thomas Beard, Shedding Bear, Trouble In Front, Last Running, Red White Cow, Mother-in-law of Shedding Bear, High Hawk and his wife, Little Boy, Little Girl, Whirl Wind Hawk and his wife, Young Lady, Young Girl, Little Girl, Little Boy, Little Boy, He Crow, Pretty Woman, Buckskin Breech Clout, Runnning in Lodge, White Feather, Little Boy, Bear Woman, Crazy Bear, Elk Creek and his wife, Spotted Chief, Red Fish and his wife, Old Good Bear, Young Good Bear and his wife, Little Boy, Pretty Hawk and his wife, Baby Pretty Hawk, Mrs. Lap, Shoots the Right, Bad Wound, Bear Parts Body, Little Boy, Brown Beaver, White Beaver Woman, Black Coyote, Red Water Woman, Sun In The Pupil and his wife, Henry Three, or Pretty Bold Eagle, Iron Eyes and his wife, Has a Dog, Red Shirt Girl, Pretty Woman, Albert Iron Eyes, White Day, Little Boy, Charge at Them, Woman, Mrs. Iron American, Mrs. Yellow Buffalo Calf, Louis Close to Home, Cast Away and Run, Bad Braves, Red Horn, Winter, Strong Fox and his wife, Little Boy, One Feather, Little Boy, Without Robe, Old Man Yellow Bull and his wife, Brown Woman, Shakes the Bird, Red Ears Horse, Shoots with Hawk Feather and his mother, Ghost Horse, Little Boy, Chief Woman, Mrs. Trouble in Love, Hat, Baby boy, Mrs. Stone Hammer, Little baby, Wolf Eagle, Good Boy, Edward Wolf Ears, Little Girl, Shoots the Bear, Kills Assiniboine, George Shoots the Bear and his wife, Kills Crow Indian, Little Body Bear and his wife, Little Boy, Baby girl, Red Eagle, Eagle Body, Little Girl, Little Elk and his wife, Black Shield?s daughter, White Wolf, Red Ears Horse's sister, and their mother, Wood Shade and his wife, Running Stand Hairs and his wife, Young lady, Scabbard Knife and his wife, He Eagle and his wife, Edward He Eagle, Young girl, Young boy, Log and his wife, Really Woman, Brown Hoops, Little boy, Young girl, Mule?s daughter, Red Other Woman, Black Flutes, Takes away the Bow, Gray in Eye, Mrs. Drops Blood, Young boy, Little boy, Old Woman, Mrs. Long Bull, Young girl, Spotted Thunder, Swift Bird and his wife, Boy, Boy, Strike Scatter, Boy, Wolf Skin Necklace, Last Talking, She is alone, Not go in Among, Wounded Hand, Comes Out Rattling, Big Voice Thunder, Mercy to Others, Long Medicine, Broken Arrow and his wife, Young Man, Young Woman, Brown Turtle, Old Woman, Bird Wings, Not Afraid of Lodge, Bear Comes and Lies, Wears Calf?s Robe, Yellow Robe, Wounded in Winter, Mrs. Black Hair, Bad Spotted Eagle and his wife, White American, Long Bull, Courage Bear and his wife, Fat Courage Bear, George Courage Bear, Black Hawk, She Bear, Weasel Bear.
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  • bambihunter
    My dad always had a few short one-line words of wisdom and this one hits this issue square on the head:

    "Hindsight is always 20-20".

    We can all look back at things we have done and with the knowledge of what transpired, would like to make different choices. Like has been said, we should remember our history (both good and bad) to learn from it, but look forward to the future.
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  • bullshot
    The white man murdered his way across this country, taking whatever he wanted, giving nothing back but the death and destruction of a once thriving
    nation of people just trying to live in "THEIR" world, lying to anyone that had ears and NEVER keeping one single promise to those he sought to displace.

    Awarding our nations highest honor to a band of murderers is shameful and should be corrected. Come on folks, we are not those people ........ the ones that kill anything that doesn't look like us. I would think that after a hundred some odd years that we have grown intelligent enough and educated enough to see what a travesty awarding those medals for that act of abomination truly is.

    We certainly can't bring back the dead but we could gain some "Honor" back for the Medal of Honor and show that we as a people don't glorify ourselves
    for horrible acts of our past.

    I'm sure that all of us here would do all we could to see a previously unacknowledged hero awarded the Medal of Honor no matter how many years have passed since his act of heroism ............. why then the hesitation to rescind the same medal from those who didn't honorably earn it.
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  • kimi
    wpageabc wrote:
    A better way may be to honor the Native Americans in some way.

    What was done at the time may have seemed correct with the views of the people.

    You nailed it. Here's an example (Below link) of why the white man carried such hatred for the red man during the making of America. The fact of the matter here is that Americans have to live with their sins, just like the Indian nations have to live with their sins, and the black, race hustling reparations bunch and their supporters must live with their sins. Dishonest Abe might say were he alive today, "It's time to root, hog, or die." And, that seems to be the direction we are heading as a nation.

    At the most brutal massacre in American history, probably far more white women and children were brutally murdered by the Creek Indians than at Wounded Knee - Where are they remembered every other day in the news media?:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_Mims_massacre#/media/File:Ft._Mims_sign.JPG
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  • Sam06
    kimi wrote:
    wpageabc wrote:
    A better way may be to honor the Native Americans in some way.

    What was done at the time may have seemed correct with the views of the people.

    You nailed it. Here's an example (Below link) of why the white man carried such hatred for the red man during the making of America. The fact of the matter here is that Americans have to live with their sins, just like the Indian nations have to live with their sins, and the black, race hustling reparations bunch and their supporters must live with their sins. Dishonest Abe might say were he alive today, "It's time to root, hog, or die." And, that seems to be the direction we are heading as a nation.

    At the most brutal massacre in American history, probably far more white women and children were brutally murdered by the Creek Indians than at Wounded Knee - Where are they remembered every other day in the news media?:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_Mims_massacre#/media/File:Ft._Mims_sign.JPG

    +1

    There were horrible massacres and killings on both sides it was a war to the knife a war that both sides did things that today cannot be imagined.

    One thing that is very interesting is most of the MOA recipients were immigrants and if you look at MOH recipients from the Indian wars were given to immigrants, Indians and Blacks. Most of the MOH recipients at Little Big Horn were given to men coming to the aid of others.

    Little know fact is the Army had 4 Hotchkiss cannons at Wounded Knee and these guns caused most of the casualties on both sides.

    Hotchkiss_cannon.jpg
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  • allen griggs
    I think it is a mistake to rescind these medals. Are we to go back and review every Medal of Honor winner, going back to the Civil War, and see which ones should be revoked?

    And after that, review every man who has a statue somewhere, and if we find he did something wrong, should we tear his statue down. I see the guy pushing this is from California. That figures.
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  • kimi
    Sam06 wrote:
    kimi wrote:
    wpageabc wrote:
    A better way may be to honor the Native Americans in some way.

    What was done at the time may have seemed correct with the views of the people.

    You nailed it. Here's an example (Below link) of why the white man carried such hatred for the red man during the making of America. The fact of the matter here is that Americans have to live with their sins, just like the Indian nations have to live with their sins, and the black, race hustling reparations bunch and their supporters must live with their sins. Dishonest Abe might say were he alive today, "It's time to root, hog, or die." And, that seems to be the direction we are heading as a nation.

    At the most brutal massacre in American history, probably far more white women and children were brutally murdered by the Creek Indians than at Wounded Knee - Where are they remembered every other day in the news media?:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_Mims_massacre#/media/File:Ft._Mims_sign.JPG

    +1

    There were horrible massacres and killings on both sides it was a war to the knife a war that both sides did things that today cannot be imagined.

    One thing that is very interesting is most of the MOA recipients were immigrants and if you look at MOH recipients from the Indian wars were given to immigrants, Indians and Blacks. Most of the MOH recipients at Little Big Horn were given to men coming to the aid of others.

    Little know fact is the Army had 4 Hotchkiss cannons at Wounded Knee and these guns caused most of the casualties on both sides.

    Hotchkiss_cannon.jpg

    Thanks for the knowledge about the Hotchkiss at Wounded Knee being the cause of most of the casualties there, which brings to my mind the conscience of men in general, and how they might treat defenseless people be they men, women or children. There are countless examples of warriors in such situations that would not kill defenseless individuals, and there are those that would shoot them in the back, scalp and mutilate them in many ways. One example being of the Creek Indian who killed three of his fellow Creek warriors who where brutally murdering women and children. Chief William Weatherford, himself, did everything he could to stop the horrible carnage the savages among them were rendering, and in return his own life was threatened.

    Note: Most all of us should remember our very good and dear friend pwillie, and maybe most of us remember that he is descended from the Chief of the Creek Nation, William Weatherford...whose life was spared at the Battle of Horseshoe Bend in Alabama by Old Hickory.
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  • us55840
    Since some believe wrongs of the past should be 'righted' such as rescinding the Medals of Honor from soldiers at wounded Knee and believe tearing down Confederate statues of the Confederate military and give reparations to ?? because some long deceased former individuals were sold into slavery by their brothers ... do you also believe ALL the lands in the United States of America be returned to the American Indian tribes because it was stolen from them too?

    It is in the past and is history..........and history is what it is :!:
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  • Brookwood
    The problem with the idea of going back in history in order to make changes in decisions made, can and does erase the actual history that took place. The records that are on the books have enough problems with those that originally recorded them. Making changes in the present day will blot out the facts of what actually took place, along with the people that were alive making the history recorded.

    I strongly say, leave dead dogs lie.
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  • KenK/84Bravo
    My position, is that the award - of our Nations most prestigious Honor for Valor in the face of the enemy in Combat, is seriously diluted/degraded/made of less Value, and yes, somewhat disgraced by wholesale awarding 20 MOH's. (For this one action?)

    Different time or not. The fact is that these Cavalry Soldier's, rode into a camp of mainly Old Men, Women, and Children - wholesale slaughtered them, then received more MOH's, than probably all of the Marines in WWII. (If I am incorrect here, I am sure it will be pointed out.)

    Sorry, not justified. Nor warranted in any way, shape, form or fashion. Your view may differ.


    My view, is my view. (And) Will remain as such.



    I discussed this thread, and my position to quite a few Combat Veterans, at work today. Thay all, (to a Man) agreed with me. (Not that that means anything.)
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  • bullshot
    So, I guess that Lance Armstrong should be aloud to keep all of his titles and trophys then, why go back and try to correct a wrong?
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  • KenK/84Bravo
    Quick&Dead wrote:
    Since some believe wrongs of the past should be 'righted' such as rescinding the Medals of Honor from soldiers at wounded Knee and believe tearing down Confederate statues of the Confederate military and give reparations to ?? because some long deceased former individuals were sold into slavery by their brothers ... do you also believe ALL the lands in the United States of America be returned to the American Indian tribes because it was stolen from them too?





    You are confusing and attempting to intigrate seperate issues, into the discussion at hand.


    We were attempting to discuss the awarding of 20 MOH's, for the action at Wounded Knee.


    Nothing more.
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  • KenK/84Bravo
    bullshot wrote:
    The white man murdered his way across this country, taking whatever he wanted, giving nothing back but the death and destruction of a once thriving
    nation of people just trying to live in "THEIR" world, lying to anyone that had ears and NEVER keeping one single promise to those he sought to displace.

    Awarding our nations highest honor to a band of murderers is shameful and should be corrected. Come on folks, we are not those people ........ the ones that kill anything that doesn't look like us. I would think that after a hundred some odd years that we have grown intelligent enough and educated enough to see what a travesty awarding those medals for that act of abomination truly is.

    We certainly can't bring back the dead but we could gain some "Honor" back for the Medal of Honor and show that we as a people don't glorify ourselves
    for horrible acts of our past.

    I'm sure that all of us here would do all we could to see a previously unacknowledged hero awarded the Medal of Honor no matter how many years have passed since his act of heroism ............. why then the hesitation to rescind the same medal from those who didn't honorably earn it.





    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^I agree with this post.^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
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  • wiplash
    If all they killed were old men, women and children, how did we get 25 dead and 45 wounded soldiers?
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  • us55840
    wiplash wrote:
    If all they killed were old men, women and children, how did we get 25 dead and 45 wounded soldiers?

    Shhhhh, don't confuse this with FACTS.
    :lol:
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  • serf
    Sure and they need to tell China to stop worshipping Mao Tse-tung and cut off all dealings with the communist regime there.He killed millions of people and American soldiers too and what does our government do ? Ignore it! It's all for show anyway. Total war I suppose really started against the American Indians. They Killed women, children and civilians, all of them so man's governments kill all of his kind and types in warfare.

    serf
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  • He Dog
    wiplash wrote:
    If all they killed were old men, women and children, how did we get 25 dead and 45 wounded soldiers?


    They surrounded the encampment and shot each other for the most part, after it started there were a few revolvers in camp, and the Indians did the best they could.
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  • KenK/84Bravo
    He Dog wrote:
    wiplash wrote:
    If all they killed were old men, women and children, how did we get 25 dead and 45 wounded soldiers?


    They surrounded the encampment and shot each other for the most part, after it started there were a few revolvers in camp, and the Indians did the best they could.




    "Shhhhh, don't confuse this with FACTS."
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  • KenK/84Bravo
    wiplash wrote:
    If all they killed were old men, women and children, how did we get 25 dead and 45 wounded soldiers?




    (But) Still, this was merit to 20 MOH's? (Do you still Seriously believe that?) Laughable on it's face.


    (And) I never said that was "all" they killed.


    It was predominately so.
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  • KenK/84Bravo
    Quick&Dead wrote:
    wiplash wrote:
    If all they killed were old men, women and children, how did we get 25 dead and 45 wounded soldiers?

    Shhhhh, don't confuse this with FACTS.
    :lol:



    Your last/previous post, that I quoted (prior to this one.) Pretty well sums up your contribution to this thread. Obscure/Obfuscate etc. (Trying to include various other arguments that you would like to include, beyond the fact that we were and are [only] discussing the Action and the awarding of 20 MOH's at Wounded Knee.)

    Deflect as you will. The facts will not change, however much you would like them to.

    This action did not merit 20 MOH recipients. Argue to the contrary as much as you would like, that will not change that simple fact.
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  • JohnEReb
    The only criteria for awarding the MOH during the time of Wounded Knee was the same as it was for the approximate 30 years prior. The soldiers had to "distinguish themselves by their gallantry in action, and other soldier-like qualities." Pretty ambiguous.

    tfQRSf2.png?1

    Here are a few of the official citations from Wounded Knee.

    Corporal Paul H. Weinert, United States Army, for extraordinary heroism on 29 December 1890, while serving with Battery E, 1st U.S. Artillery, in action at Wounded Knee Creek, South Dakota. Taking the place of his commanding officer who had fallen severely wounded, Corporal Weinert gallantly served his piece, after each fire advancing it to a better position. Awarded 24 March 1891

    Private Joshua B. Hartzog, United States Army, for extraordinary heroism on 29 December 1890, while serving with Company E, 1st U.S. Artillery, in action at Wounded Knee Creek, South Dakota. Private Hartzog went to the rescue of the commanding officer who had fallen severely wounded, picked him up, and carried him out of range of the hostile guns. Awarded 24 March 1891.

    Sergeant George Loyd, United States Army, for bravery, especially after having been severely wounded through the lung on 29 December 1890, while serving with Company I, 7th U.S. Cavalry, in action at Wounded Knee Creek, South Dakota. Awarded 16 April 1891.

    More information here.

    https://armyatwoundedknee.com/gallantry-in-action/
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  • dcon12
    I am almost certain that none of the 20 MOH recipients could care less one way or the other. Don
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  • dfletcher
    Quick&Dead wrote:
    The rescid those medals is wrong in so many ways.

    At the time, the American Indian was 'the enemy' and total elimination was thought by many as the best solution. Even Frank Baum who is noted for writing "The Wizard of Oz" stated "The only good Indian, is a dead Indian."

    At this rate, with the 'rewriting of history' and proposals to pay reparations to negros 'cause over a century ago some were slaves, it won't be long and some loon will proclaim to rescind the Medals of Honor given the those who fought in WWI and in WWII because now we are friendly with the Germans and the Japanese.

    :lol:

    I would use a different example. Medal of Honor recipients at the 1914 Battle of Vera Cruz. Which has lately been called the "Occupation of Vera Cruz". Given today's political climate I think this is more susceptible to revision than actions of WWI and WWII.

    https://www.thoughtco.com/mexican-revolution-occupation-of-veracruz-2360858

    There were approximately 36 Medal of Honor recipients for actions at Vera Cruz. Like it or not, the requirements for receiving a Medal of Honor have changed over the years. I think it could be asserted a whole host of recipients from years past may be considered to come up short given today's more stringent standards, politics aside, based only on battlefield endeavors.
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