Just a heads up...selling without a license
I have a friend that lived here in WY for most of his life. Five years ago he decided to move to Wisconsin. He is retired air force and has never been charged with a crime in the past. Long story short, he has been buying and selling firearms for the past few years and he sold a Glock to a WI resident with a CCW permit. That person sold the Glock to another person who them sold it to another person and somehow the pistol ended up being used to kill a police officer in Chicago. Of course ATF traced the handgun and found out that it had passed thru my friend's hands. They did further research and found out that he had been buying guns, keeping them for a few months, then re-selling them. He was doing legal sales but according to ATF, too many for a private seller. They confiscated 70 guns from his home, his cell phones, computers and examined his bank records claiming that he was "in the business of selling guns without a license". He was just sentenced to three years in Federal prison with the judge telling him he wanted to make an example of him. Had that one gun not been used in such a serious crime, he might have flown under the radar forever. He could not afford a private attorney and the public defender they assigned to his case was totally an anti gun liberal and did nothing at all to help get him a better deal at sentencing. He contacted the NRA for advice and they would not even talk to him because he had let his membership lapse. So he loses his SSI and pension for the three years he is in prison and has to reapply once he is released.
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Just hope the DEMOCRATs are never in power again. 0 -
Well hard to make a livelihood if you ain't making a profit 
quote:Originally posted by 11b6r
FWIW- the ATF does not address "profit". The term is "engaging in the business" of buying and selling guns. Their definition is devoting time and attention to making a livelihood.
I have an M1 carbine. Find a better specimen, buy it, decide to sell the one I have- NOT engaging in the business.
I buy a crate of 5 Mosin-Nagants. Pick the one I like best and sell the other 4 right away. REAL shaky ground, and will likely be considered engaging in the business.
I am at a gun show, selling off some guns I no longer want. Someone offers me a Browning Hi-Power for $100. I buy it, and immediately put it on the table with a $500 tag. THAT has gotten a few folks arrested (ATF sting)
Having said that, I am not a lawyer. If you get arrested I will NOT be standing next to you in court.0 -
quote:Originally posted by Locust Fork
The part I do not understand is how they came to the conclusion that he was operating as a dealer by looking into one gun sale??? I understand they were tracing the one gun back through the hands that it went through, but how did they find out that he had bought and sold guns regularly?
They got all his bank records for the past few years and went over every single deposit he made to his account and correlated the deposits to gun sales he had made. They claimed he was making a profit and acting as a dealer. He lost money on some guns and made a few dollars on others. He just found out that ATF is releasing the 70 firearms they seized from him to a local FFL dealer who can sell them and give a percentage to the owner. From what he has been told, all his guns were thrown in buckets, with duct tape wrapped around the guns holding the extra mags. They were rusty and scratched from being stored that way.0 -
quote:Originally posted by He Dog
quote:I think what saved him was that he got ID from all his buyers, and recorded that information, along with information on the gun purchased, on a legal pad.
While I do the same for my records, I sell very seldom and always through my transfer ffl. I could see this if he did it a lot as being evidence of his being a dealer without benefit of a license. I wonder how the jury saw it differently.
He had a terrible federal public defender and he did not ask for a jury trial. DUMB! The judge was very anti gun. Always go for a jury, you only need to convince one person!0 -
[V][V][:(][:(] 0 -
Finally found the whole story on this incident:
https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-met-paul-bauer-glock-handgun-20180928-story.html0 -
quote:Originally posted by CS8161
Finally found the whole story on this incident:
https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-met-paul-bauer-glock-handgun-20180928-story.html
Wonder how long till that website mentioned in that article gets the same treatment as the ?hookup? sites did this year. I?ve found a couple deals on that website and the people I met were decent folks who ask for a CCW or go to a licensed dealer for transfer.0 -
same thing in mich the feds sold some guns ,bought back at the next show,sold them to another guy ,bought back at the next show ,,dealing with out a lic, 0 -
The business cards stating that he buys and sells guns didn?t help. Never do that. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by tsavo303
The business cards stating that he buys and sells guns didn?t help. Never do that.
Yep, and after reading the article, it looks like he had at least two chances to cease and desist.0 -
It is a stupid law that should never have been considered.
It is a law that is not 100% clear.
It is a law, however, that he knew he was breaking, IMO.0 -
I think maybe the Fed's just "Fixed Stupid"... 0 -
From the article he had his chance to avoid all this mess chose not to . His stupidity and his choice I can?t work up a lot of sympathy for him 0 -
quote:Originally posted by pulsarnc
From the article he had his chance to avoid all this mess chose not to . His stupidity and his choice I can?t work up a lot of sympathy for him
Appears that way.0 -
OK :
A rew years back : a Buddy of mine was charged with the same thing : He ended up in Federal Court : got pizzed & fired his attorney , Fought them (atf) & WON !!! then sued them & Won that too ...............
and :
On the other hand : A guy I know had this same thing happen : They (atf) took all his guns , all his cash , his new truck & He lost in court ! His attorney told him it wasnt if he had to go to prison : it would be for how long ??? By the way : He was also making & selling 'shine' ??? OOooooppppss !!!!
Thanks !!!0
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