Wildcat 12GA From Hell.--
I just got a super shotgun done,that shoots the real
fast sabots I mentioned in the sabot thread below..
We used a Savage 210 bolt action with heavy barrel and
stock.Brass cases are real long and we made them by putting
12ga size rims on BMG brass and straightening cases.Here is
picture of our case next to regular 12ga plastic.And our
chamber will also fire thw regular shells.Ed
fast sabots I mentioned in the sabot thread below..
We used a Savage 210 bolt action with heavy barrel and
stock.Brass cases are real long and we made them by putting
12ga size rims on BMG brass and straightening cases.Here is
picture of our case next to regular 12ga plastic.And our
chamber will also fire thw regular shells.Ed
0
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Yes Bob is right about the use for what the primers
were designed for. In shotgun applications
and low pressure rifle applications, the
shotgun primers proved stronger than large rifle
in my tests and the pressure testing companies testing.
The shotgun battery cup might fail at real high pressures,
but its power to fire off shotgun loads is still good.
The early days 600NE cases and others of that size
made in UK,etc, they used a bigger Berdan primer for
more power than our Boxer Large rifle primers, because
as we found in our 12ga work, as you increase powder charge
diameter it takes more flame from a primer to ignite charges.
RMC makes their brass 12ga with shotgun primers, and it
works better than if they used lg rifle.Ed0 -
Finally able to make the
longer barrel improvement on
the 1887 12ga levergun.......
Rifled and heavy and 31"
long. After many months finally got
a barrel.Ed0 -
With NEF. Plastic cases, roll crimped slug
in drillpress. 82gr IMR 4227 1650 fps,
with 730gr, 78 gr 4227 with 800gr, 1600.
Expansion on cases show little more pressure
as full loads of 4759 and 600gr.
Ignition perfect with small primers.
Ejects cases fine. Burns clean.
Got a GEHA bolt 12ga to put a heavier
rifled barrel on to test. Ed0 -
tested 870 gr in NEF with our long
brass case with big primer.I have NEF
with extra hammer spring for big primer.
Got 2000 fps and still able to extract case.
Would do little more, extractor needs
to be wider and set up positive.
Used 260gr of WC-860 and MagPro.
Could use RL-22, Rl-25, Retumbo, etc.
That's 7700 ft lbs.. I get 600 gr slug to
2300 plus in NEF, long case. so you can go
light or heavy.Ed0 -
Ed,
I had a chance to work on some of the loads. I've been using Remington High Brass hulls. I started with 65.5 grains of 4759 under a 730gr dixie slug with a BPI gas seal, a 1/4" felt, and a 1/2 fiber wad as the filler. The results were lack luster to say the least. 1400fps out of the H&R. I also noticed incomplete powder burn.
I subsequently increased the powder charge to 75.5gr of 4759 with the 730gr slug, one BPI gas seal, one each 1/4" and 1/2" fiber wads, which gave an improved 1615fps. the next load was 77.5gr of 4759 on the same wadding and slug weight, the outcome was 1700fps but, only one of five ejected and I had to use a rod to get the rest out. I think it may be an ejector problem as I am noticing a bulge in the brass at the ejector position. These loads are hitting the steel plates with more authority than my 975gr 50 alaskan loads! I knew there was somthing about larger diameter bullets! Please advise me if I have made any mistakes.
Respectfully,
Jason0 -
I haven't tested 4759 with 720gr in NEF.
Just 600gr. Your 730 gr at 1615 using 75.5gr
of 4759 is very good load. 4300 ft lbs. And
using plastic cases that is great with
heavier slug. The 600gr is so much easier
to load for in plastic. Another 6"
barrel you'd have 1715 plus. For 730gr the 4227
would be better with little lower pressure.
I put a spacer under my ejector spring to
help out. I use the the bulge at the ejector
slot as an indicator of pressures also.
Mine extracts with some bulge showing and
cases are safe in NEF that way. Did you weight
the gun, and get a thick pad.Ed0 -
Ed,
Thanks for the information. As it is now, the gun is still in factory trim and weighs 9.5lbs. I didn't get any of the 600gr slugs from dixie and they told me they were shutting down component orders effective July 1, 2007. I'll go back and look at your 4227 info. A spacer under the ejector spring? How many times are you able to reload the same hulls? Due to the bulge, they are a pain to resize but, I've done it and reloaded the same 10 hulls about 3 times a piece. The hull ends are holding up well. My only question is case head expansion. What would you consider to much?
Jason0 -
When we are getting loads that make that bulge
where ejector is, it's easier to reload another case.
I have resized them also and it is a big pain.
I did one 6 times till mouth went away
but it is too much hassle and work.
And working them that much, I don't like.
Once fired cases are 5-10 cents on internet.
Plus a lot are given to you. How I got mine.
When I measure 3" high brass REM cases, max pressures
expands base ahead of rim to about .810- 814",
where a mild skeet load would be about.806- 807".
I measure 3/8" ahead of rim They start out
at .801-803" from factory.You should try Dixie as I
am going to. I need a bunch of 600s also.
They are the best shaped, and best slug for
all around use.Ed0 -
Here is pic of 695 bolt action
Mossberg with dinky barrel and the heavy long
rifled barrel for it. It has a recoil plate
like Rem/Sav, and two rear bolt lugs..Ed0 -
tested in NEF 3" cases, Alliant 2400 with
small primers, Fired ok at 75 deg but when
case cooled there was majority of misfires
and squib loads. Don't reccomend it.
Here is picture of Mauser 12ga bolt action
GEHA with a heavy barrel like one I will put
on it. Make a good slug gun.Ed0 -
The 12GA From Hell is now on
Ammoguide, the last page of
cartridge list.Ed
http://ammoguide.com/?catid=6110 -
Saw info on a break action that
would handle 12ga FH.It is Cole,
with a strong top lock and real wide
strong extractor.Ed0 -
tested 3.5" plastic cases in NEF, small
primers. My chamber is long for our
long brass case, so they work fine.....
600 gr slug, 105 gr of IMR 4227,
got 2100. Same slug, 180 gr, 7383 surplus,
got 2100 fps. That's 5800 ft lbs from 12ga
plastic shotgun cases.Ed0 -
I was wondering if you could use a Marlin 512 Slugmaster as a base gun for building one of these monsters. Or is the action to weak? I know nothing about there maximum working pressure.But i do know that with a 445 grain BRI 3In. magnum shock point sabot off the bench it lets you know that it needs to be a little more nose heavy! Another quick question. I found three full boxes of Activ 23/4''shells at a local flea market last weekend.Have you ever used any of these strange but unique hulls in your reloading and testing? Thanks,and keep up the good work. 0 -
The 512 would take heavier slower powder
loads with a heavy long rifled barrel, 600gr
slugs, in 3" plastic cases. Put on a good pad
and little wt in the butt also.Ed0 -
Thanks Ed. I didn't think it would handle anything super heavy. But 600gr. would more than do the do on any thing i will ever come in contact with in my neck of the woods. Now i guess i'll see if Pac will thread me a heavy barrel for a 512. Thanks Again. 0 -
It will handle any load that has pressures like
heavy magnum goose or turkey loads or
like Rem Buckhammer slug loads. Once
it's done, with barrel dimensions, then we can
figure out loads for you. But I want to
add that Mossberg 12ga 395s and 695s cost very little,
and look so much more like a big game gun.
The rear mounted bolt handle looks nicer.Check on
the lisings on this site and others.Ed0 -
Here is the Enfield I reamed out to feed 12 gauge and BMG
size cases. I added two rear bolt locking lugs, one the huge bolt
handle and another added that locks in rear bridge. The front lugs
still contact on their top 40 %. This is concept from earlier shown
Mauser shotgun conversions, where they were made from 98
Mausers, giving a bolt action 12ga.This one is chambered for
my belted 700H 3.25" case, as a load developement test gun.
Loads up to 825 gr at 2500 so far.. Ed0 -
The three From Hell cartridges----
My 28GA FH, 2nd Our 12GA FH, can
you guess the 3rd?. What do readers think. Ed0 -
10Ga.FH maybe? 0 -
It is the 8GA From Hell, a real cartridge. 4.3 inch long
brass case. 8 ga shorter plastic case, plan on in same chamber.
The brass kiln gun case isn't as long as mine. Where do
you find the rare 8 ga brass kiln gun cases.
Looking now for guns or actions and barrels. I make it
from 20mm Suzy brass(20mm Hispano Suiza), by putting
on a 8ga size rim and reshaping like we did 12GA FH....Ed0 -
Ed,
after reading this thread, I thought you were crazy. Then I get to the bottom and see your 8gafh. Now I KNOW you're crazy. Keep up the good work.
Let me know when you come up with a shoulder-fired 155mm Howitzer.0 -
8ga, we gonna do a couple, first one a test
gun in an Enfield with rear locking lugs.
All locking is in the rear, it is not exactly like
my 700HE one,as both lug seats gone in the
front like a Mauser shotgun.
May have a way to get barrels 'fast'---
fast being like 2 weeks, from the time I
have money to do it. And only about
150 bucks each.......Am working on it.
In pic you see long case sticking out of
the action, a couple 8ga plastic cases, a
couple of the 8ga kiln slugs, 3 oz and
hardened. Am looking for a slug built like the
Federal 10 ga one that has rounded nose and
hollow base, that will fit bores tight.
The barrels I am working deal on will be smoothbore.Ed0 -
quote:Originally posted by Tailgunner1954
[:D][:D]
As I tell the wife, I always need "just" one more gun
Oh I know! But my wife still isn't buying that line!0 -
Howabout this Long Tom slug gun.....Ed 0 -
Mr. Hubel,
I'm glad to see your still at it. I worked with some variations based on your work a few months ago. I managed to get 1700 fps out of the H&R. When the temperatures of summer got up there I had to back off a bit. I hope to have the time to get back to it. Have you had enough investors to get the jacketed .729 slugs going yet?
Respectfully,
Jason0 -
Jason- Glad you are working on it.
We have a guy who would do 750 gr jacketed
for $1.50 each and help with die set to
make them. Email when you get a chance.Ed0 -
Got an 8ga barrel blank being made now,
will be here end of the week.Found this
info on plastic 8ga kiln gun loads, they
load a frangible 710gr slug at 2300-
for 8300ft lbs, load 1275gr hard slug to
1700, 8100 ft lbs. We will outdo those easy
with our non-shotgun powder loads, in
a heavy barrel.Ed0 -
tested 35" smooth barrel in 1887. Got couple
1 oz foster slugs over 2400, with 110gr
of 4227. 3" plastic case, regular primers.
This is a heavy barrel for that type of load,
don't do this in your 12ga skinny barrels.
The 28GA FH cases on the way.Chambering
bolt gun for it now..Ed0 -
In the 87 long smooth barrel got
1 oz Brenneke to 2400 with 110gr
of 4227, You could use 4759 and
VV110 also at lesser amounts.
Barrel is cylinder bore size.
Brenneke slugs need no wads as the
locked on wad works good.Ed0
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