Wildcat 12GA From Hell.--
I just got a super shotgun done,that shoots the real
fast sabots I mentioned in the sabot thread below..
We used a Savage 210 bolt action with heavy barrel and
stock.Brass cases are real long and we made them by putting
12ga size rims on BMG brass and straightening cases.Here is
picture of our case next to regular 12ga plastic.And our
chamber will also fire thw regular shells.Ed
fast sabots I mentioned in the sabot thread below..
We used a Savage 210 bolt action with heavy barrel and
stock.Brass cases are real long and we made them by putting
12ga size rims on BMG brass and straightening cases.Here is
picture of our case next to regular 12ga plastic.And our
chamber will also fire thw regular shells.Ed
0
-
Rem
I'm 51, 5'8, 185lb. Ed's rifle pushed me around a little, but not real bad considering the power it has. Ed reported thet the barrel only came up about 6" when I fired it offhand.
Recoil level is in the 100-110lb range, which is about what you normaly find when your shooting a true "big bore" rifle (Medium bores like the 416 Rigby runs in the mid 60's).0 -
I picked up a 12ga NEF Ultra Slug gun.24 inch shorty barrel.
Added weight and thumbhole stock.
Gun weighted to 15 lbs so
far. I got 600gr hard slug to
1650-1700 so far, and shoots easy.
Got 1 1/2 inch thick pad.Working up different
loads.Should get over 2000.
Cases eject easy,no resizing needed
on bottom half of case,action opens easy,
no evidence of binding.Started case 3.2 inch,
settled on case length of 3.15-- Chamber being
full size max 12ga size expands top half of case
more than my minimum chamber in Savage does,
so little more effort needed to size.Our case, though many times stronger than regular
12ga cases is thinner at mouth, so that is
why I used tight chamber on Savage.Still
can't get used to mickey mouse short barrel.
Anyone know of a genius who could
make long alloy barrel with pivot mounted?
Cases can be 3 inches on up to
our length, and work.Ed0 -
We got 600 gr slug to 2000 fps in NEF.Used ball
powder load. Case length of maximum 3.07 works.
Can use our case shorter, but load developement harder.
Anyone using our style case should also put in adapter
for shotgun primer. Save a lot of work
beefing up hammer speed and strength.Ed0 -
Awesome! Keep us informed. 0 -
Being some guns need to much work
to fire bmg primers, it easier to
do the following with adapter bushings.
Here is picture of cases for primer
comparisons.1st is regular bmg
primer. 2nd is adapted to a shotgun primer.
3rd is adapted to large rifle primer.
Of the 2 adaptations, large rifle is
easier to do, just ream out pocket, thread in adapter, but adapting shotgun primer
you have to deepen the original primer
pocket a little, then thread and screw in
a bushing.These two primers give about
100 fps less than bmg primer.Ed.0 -
Testing RL-25 in Savage, with long case--Got 730 gr
hardened cast slug to 2400 plus with 300 gr RL-25.
Full load. Bottom of cases don't need sizing.
Got 600gr to 3250, 14,000 ft lbs. Ball powder load.Ed0 -
quote:Originally posted by hubel458
Testing RL-25 in Savage, with long case--Got 730 gr
hardened cast slug to 2400 plus with 300 gr RL-25.
Full load. Bottom of cases don't need sizing.
Got 600gr to 3250, 14,000 ft lbs. Ball powder load.Ed
That's amazing Ed.-- What a thumper!!
Did I read that right about 300 grains of RL25 powder with the 730gr hardened slug ? What a payload...........[:0]0 -
that pail is sweet. i sure do like your guns![:p] 0 -
Temblor- That's correct. And we got a 730 hardened cast
to 2900 using 280gr of Win W-760 ball
powder in Savage today. Got 730gr over 2800 with 300 gr of
RL-22 yesterday. And hardened Dixie slugs at 70 cents each are
a neat deal. Ed0 -
quote:Originally posted by hubel458
Temblor- That's correct. And we got a 730 hardened cast
to 2900 using 280gr of Win W-760 ball
powder in Savage today. Got 730gr over 2800 with 300 gr of
RL-22 yesterday. And hardened Dixie slugs at 70 cents each are
a neat deal. Ed
That's alot of powder Ed!!
Do you think the Dixie slugs would hold together on big game like Cape Buffalo, etc ?? That's pretty cheap shooting for such a big round.
Keep us posted -- Interesting stuff.......[^]0 -
Temblor- They might do for buffalo. others make heavier
slugs hardened the same way. The 730 goes through
about 3 ft of hardwood slabs bundled together.Ed0 -
Wow, thats a big size 0 -
We are having a group buy of 1000 gr soft jacketed
bullets for 12ga from Hawk. $2.10 each.Contact
me for details.Need order of 1000 total for them to
make dies and start.Got commitment for 400
already.Let me know if interested.We are getting
a 1887 12ga lever gun to test our cases in.Ed.0 -
We got recoil now-Got a 1050 gr
Bridger over 2200 fps in the Savage.
I took the hollow base 750 gr Bridgers
made for me, and wedged in .500 caliber
slugs(I took out of 12ga sabot)in the base.
Added 300 gr. I was going to melt lead and put in,
but this was easier about 5 seconds,
after 15 seconds shortening nose on grinder
of .500 slug.Ed0 -
quote:Originally posted by hubel458
We got recoil now-Got a 1050 gr
Bridger over 2200 fps in the Savage.
I took the hollow base 750 gr Bridgers
made for me, and wedged in .500 caliber
slugs(I took out of 12ga sabot)in the base.
Added 300 gr. I was going to melt lead and put in,
but this was easier about 5 seconds,
after 15 seconds shortening nose on grinder
of .500 slug.Ed
Wow, that must be some impressive recoil!![:0]
Do you happen to know how much the gun weighs--(I'm trying to calculate the felt recoil).[^]0 -
The gun is 25 lbs and has a big recoil pad.
With great balance that helps with recoil.Ed.0 -
WOW!
Who would of ever tunk you could do something like that.[:D][:D][:D] Thats some fine work.0 -
Yes it is a fun project.Look
at the hairy fun the Borchardt is putting out.
We get questions about recoil.
My Savage is a ice creamcat being heavy
relative to the loads...Now Rob's gets exciting...
Rob shot a few 1000 grain Bridgers at 3250 fps
and he said he couldn't go any higher as recoil
was "severe". His Borchardt is 24 lbs, and can take
any pressure you could load for it and still
hang on. Cartridges of this size really gets
the juices flowing at over 23,000 ft lbs..Ed0 -
We got 1887 12ga levergun here to test. Has 2 & 3/4
inch chamber and we will test with our cases cut back and
with Rocky Mtn cases.Here is pic.Neat gun.Ed0 -
I'm impressed! What kind of downrange performance (other than total devastation) are you getting with these things? Will they group? Range? 0 -
With Savage, peep sights and bad eyes I get
4 in group at 50 yds. Rob with his scoped gun
gets them nearly in one hole. Ed0 -
Got a few more questions! Is there much difference groupwise with the different projectiles, and is it accurate enough to hunt animals in the 75-100 yd range? Where did you get your barrel for the Savage?[?] 0 -
Find the load you like and get decent groups with
it is good to 200 yds at our velocities. Say a
600 gr hardened slug at 26-2900. Savage 210 comes with
scope rail. We got our barrels from Pac-Nor, mine a
31 in long and 1 x 20 twist barrel blank.
I turned it myself extra heavy for experimenting.
They will also profile them for you.For our type of
loads in Savage 1.43 inch minimum at breech, 1.2
min at the muzzle.Ed0 -
I got Rocky Mtn turned 12ga cases, and am
developing loads. They are 2 7/8 inches
long are for use in NEF and shortened
in 1887. These cases have shotgun
primers. Now these cases with shotgun primers and the two cases of ours we put small primers in don't fire the slow rifle powder loads
reliably,like cases with bmg primers.
Our testing is with 600 hardened Dixie slugs.
So I have and am testing slow shotgun powder and fast rifle.I tested 5 shotgun powders and
the primers fires then ok but the quick peak pressure when loads increased to get velocity
wanted in NEF caused too much case expansion just ahead of the base.Cases ejected ok but
that expansion and resizing will ruin cases
in a couple shots.These cases have a real thick base, and are machined to glass smooth finish.Nice cases.
I now testing AA1680 Ball and it looks good.
Have got loads up to 105 gr with 2 wads in
the Rocky Mtn case, and only .002 expansion
of case ahead of base. Will chrono next and
expect it to get velocity we want in NEF.
Nice thing about this testing is that same loads will work in shortened 87 case by just
using less wad column.Ed0 -
Tested bras and plastic 3 inch cases,
got a whole bunch of loads figured out.
Then I just NEF chambered for long case. And remember it
has beefed up hammer for bmg primers used in our case.
Got 2500 fps with 600 gr slug, cases eject out real easy,
8300 ft lbs from an NEF with 24 inch barrel.If you set up
NEF to use regular primers adapted to our case or
have Rocky Mtn make a long case you can do it without
a lot of work on the hammer and springs. Just use a
flake shotgun powder as a starter powder above the
primer, which how 700 NE and others are loaded.
Use 10 gr of flake and cut regular load 40 gr and
work up if pressures allow.Ed.0 -
We tested turned brass cases and plastic cases
that have regular primers.We have to use
fast burning shotgun powder to start slower
powder loads with small primers.
We tested RE-7 and RE-15. Re-15 is better
with less case expansion and wear.
Results of RE-15 testing in plastic cases.
600 gr hardened Dixie slug and 10gr
of Blue dot starter powder in both lengths.
In Nef, 3 inch case is about 2.6 crimped,
and 120 gr RE-15 max load. In 1887, 2.75 inch
cases are about 2.35 crimped, 110 gr RE-15
max load. In 2.75 case thats all it will
hold,with card wad, in longer make up space with wads.The reason I'm checking plastic is so many shotgun reloading guys want more power for big game, and they are set up to
load plastic. With starter powder- a caution.
You must put starter in keeping case level,and the powder put in on top, must be put in slow
so as not to push it away from primer.
Greg Sappington clued me in on another powder that may do the job without starter powder
and be slow enough to get velocities up
without to much pressure. It's IMR SR-4759.
Will have some in couple days.I made contact
to get some of these loads pressure tested,
to check my pressure calculations..Ed.0 -
The 4759 loads are the best for 2.75 & 3" cases
600gr at over 1800 fps. Ignition perfect.
Found an O/U that would handle the 4759 3"
loads. It is the Zoli Z-Sport. Expensive,
all alloy steel construction, tested to
about 100k. That's not a missprint.Their
site shows testing at the Italian proof house
of 8000 bar.That's 7-8 times regular shotgun
working loads.Pic of action below. It handling that
extreme pressure, means that other quality
O/U like Ruger may handle 4759 loads.Ed0 -
I get questions about whether the IMR 4759
loads aren't to high pressure.Even for NEF.
Well in Nef the REM factory Buckhammer
slug load, expands the base of the case
more than my 90gr, 4759 load. And I get
more speed, in the same kind of
Rem case.And pressure testing will tell us
for sure what we have wrought..Ed.0 -
Hot Damn- Test Results of 4 plastic cases.
Rem high base 3" case, with 600 gr
Dixie hardened slug. Roll crimped with
crimper in drill press. All 4 loaded with
90 gr of 4759. We have a winner.
Average velocity of 4 -- 1938 fps
Average pressure of 4 -- 14, 575 psi.
tested with transducer test ing setup,
in 30 inch barrel,In my 24" NEF I got 1800+.
Cases fell out of his test chamber like they did out of
my NEF.And with some cases I can get in 95gr,
that I figured with my math would
have 15k psi.So my math and developement is
OK.And 4800 ft lbs, thats neat with plastic.
Tom says this load will do in any gun that handles
the 2 oz factory magnum goose loads
that test about 13,600 to 14,000.And 4759
will give slower time to peak pressure, thus
will be easier on cases than magnum goose loads
or the hot factory Buckhamer slug loads
I fired, that expanded cases as much or more
than our 4759 loads.Ed0 -
quote:Originally posted by hubel458
Hot Damn- Test Results of 4 plastic cases.
Rem high base 3" case, with 600 gr
Dixie hardened slug. Roll crimped with
crimper in drill press. All 4 loaded with
90 gr of 4759. We have a winner.
Average velocity of 4 -- 1938 fps
Average pressure of 4 -- 14, 575 psi.
tested with transducer test ing setup,
in 30 inch barrel,In my 24" NEF I got 1800+.
Cases fell out of his test chamber like they did out of
my NEF.And with some cases I can get in 95gr,
that I figured with my math would
have 15k psi.So my math and developement is
OK.And 4800 ft lbs, thats neat with plastic.
Tom says this load will do in any gun that handles
the 2 oz factory magnum goose loads
that test about 13,600 to 14,000.And 4759
will give slower time to peak pressure, thus
will be easier on cases than magnum goose loads
or the hot factory Buckhamer slug loads
I fired, that expanded cases as much or more
than our 4759 loads.Ed
Time to start sellin em. Good work Hubel, very impressive.0
Post is closed for comments.
Comments
412 comments