scopes- price vs. quality
I shoot and load many rifles and calibers, most of them under "1 moa
and almost all of them with "lesser name scopes" with high varmit type magnifacion,And I have gone to high power rifle shoots(which the guys are shooting leupolds) what is the REAL difference besides the hugh price differnece? Scopes that I shoot incule are BSA, SIMMONS, TASCO. I can not see spending an extra $500.00 for lens quality or 2% more light transmission. joe
and almost all of them with "lesser name scopes" with high varmit type magnifacion,And I have gone to high power rifle shoots(which the guys are shooting leupolds) what is the REAL difference besides the hugh price differnece? Scopes that I shoot incule are BSA, SIMMONS, TASCO. I can not see spending an extra $500.00 for lens quality or 2% more light transmission. joe
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Stealth,
I would love to see that Tasco on the 1K line and then try to pick up 15" targets at 1500yards with it.
Sorry bud but I am going to have to throw the BS FLAG on this one.
MOA Targets out to 1500 yards? MOA meaning 15" targets.
Shooting out to 1500yards with a 308? What load?
What model tasco is it? Shooting a 308 at 1K meaning you are going to need about 39MOA roughly to get out there. I don't know any 1" tube scope with that type of adjustment.
1/2" @ 100yards is nice but that does not tell anything about the quality of the optics. Have you tried a BOX test with it?
Hate to bust your balls man but I've looked through some serious optics and picking up targets at 1K in the field is hard but now you talking about MOA targets out to 1500yards with a Tasco?
[xx(]0 -
I don't know why I am wasting my time answering you but I will try.
My $70.00 Tasco is mounted to my rifle with a 20moa sloped base and the scope has ( with the base) 43 moa elevation travel because it is a 1 inch tube , only about 39 moa is actually usable , My XOTIC 4-16X56 has over 100moa travel wita a 30mm tube , now a true moa is about 1.047"at 100 yards so when I say moa I am talking in inches at 100 yards for clarity.
At 1000 yards I use 36.5moa elevation or 146 clicks up or (2 turns+6minutes and 2 clicks )on this scope.
That is not to hard to see on a 1 inch tube is it? When I shoot out to 1500 yards I set it for the 1000 yard zero first then I hold over 5 mils using the Mil-Dots , this is ware the reticule gets thick after the dots. The second longest shot ever recorded in South Viet Nam was in 1967.The weapon was the Remington Model 700 w/Redfield 3x9 scope The distance was1900 meters, distance and KIA was confirmed by a Marine 1st Lieutenant 1/5 the Shooter L/Cpl. Martin E. Berry 5th Marine Scout Sniper Platoon.
Shooting at long ranges is a good test for you and your rifle but you will never understand how it can be done if you don't try it.
My best 5 shot 1000 yard group with this scope was 6-7/8" on a nice day temp was about 76.[:D]
Raptor0 -
I am getting an inferiority complex!! I must be the only hunter in the world that cannot: shoot groups inside 10" @ 1000yds, buy rifles that all shoot under 1/2" groups right out of the box using factory ammo and any sort of scope from the $70 variety on up, kill running game at 500 yds while standing and firing off hand and any number of world class accomplishments. At 63, I have been a rifleman for a long time, so I suppose that I have just never had the skills to perform all of these wonders and more. Or.............perhaps some hunters/shooters need to stretch reality a tad?
Using hunting rifles, I am happy to work up loads that will consistantly shoot inside 1" @ 100 yds. I like my varmint rifles to do just a little better then that. This, using Burris Signature scopes, which I believe are somewhere in the middle, in terms of quality and price.
roysclockgun0 -
quote:Originally posted by Stealth
I don't know why I am wasting my time answering you but I will try.
My $70.00 Tasco is mounted to my rifle with a 20moa sloped base and the scope has ( with the base) 43 moa elevation travel because it is a 1 inch tube , only about 39 moa is actually usable , My XOTIC 4-16X56 has over 100moa travel wita a 30mm tube , now a true moa is about 1.047"at 100 yards so when I say moa I am talking in inches at 100 yards for clarity.
At 1000 yards I use 36.5moa elevation or 146 clicks up or (2 turns+6minutes and 2 clicks )on this scope.
That is not to hard to see on a 1 inch tube is it? When I shoot out to 1500 yards I set it for the 1000 yard zero first then I hold over 5 mils using the Mil-Dots , this is ware the reticule gets thick after the dots. The second longest shot ever recorded in South Viet Nam was in 1967.The weapon was the Remington Model 700 w/Redfield 3x9 scope The distance was1900 meters, distance and KIA was confirmed by a Marine 1st Lieutenant 1/5 the Shooter L/Cpl. Martin E. Berry 5th Marine Scout Sniper Platoon.
Shooting at long ranges is a good test for you and your rifle but you will never understand how it can be done if you don't try it.
My best 5 shot 1000 yard group with this scope was 6-7/8" on a nice day temp was about 76.[:D]
Raptor
Do you use like every 3rd dot for each additional 100 yards...or maybe even more.?.? The bullet is dropping so fast out at 1000 yards, I don't understand how you could be using your mil dots????
Eric
allamericanarmsco@frontiernet.net
All American Arms Company
www.galleryofguns.com
VIP Code: AAAC
Veteran Owned and Operated0 -
First I want to say that I am NOT trying to say this scope is any better than a good or a high end scope and I DON'T recommend wasting money trying to find out. GET a Leopold MK4 M1 or M3 and if that cost too much get a Super Sniper.
Like I said before I tried the other model 6-24X42 and it FAILED after only 3 weeks on a 22.250. I am not an expert of any kind I just like long range shooting for fun.
This scope can be had at Midway or SWFA for $63.99 to $67.99 , 2.5-10X42 Mil-Dot Target Varmint, It ahs ?" clicks that sound and feel bad, 15moa per turn of the knob and fair glass .
My rifle has a 26" Bull barrel with a 1-12" twist. I reload with 168 gr Amax bullets at an AV of 2705 fps ( choreographed ).
When I shoot over 1000 yds it is usually on a very calm day and the temp is between 30-70 degrees and almost all of my shooting is done from a bench . I use a 1600 yd Newcon rangefinder against a very reflective target for ranging.
My target is 40"X40" cardboard with a Moa bright orange ,Red dot in the middle.
Bullets that don't hit the dot are NOT counted as hits.
I have much bigger guns for this type of shooting with a lot better scopes on them but I like to push it to its max.(.300 -.338rum-.50BMG.)
ECC
I actually use the power selector after the initial 1000 yd zero, this might sound strange but it works for me.
My hit ratio on a moa reflective dot is only about 1 in 5 shots at 1500 yards.
This is my actual settings on a 60 degree day after my initial 1000 yd Zero.
At 1200 yds I leave it on 10X and hold over 5 mils about -575"DROP
At 1300 yds I set it at 7X and hold over 5 mils - 725" est
At 1400 yds I set it at 4.5X and hold over 5 mils -900" est At 1500 yds I set it at 3.5X and hold over 5 mils. - 1100" est
Now some of you are thinking BS for 3.5X at 1500 yds but from a bench and a 40"X40" backing on the target ,yes I can see the orange dot if I hold just left or right of it on the crosshairs.
For non believers all I can say is get out and try it.
I know the Mil spacing gets bigger as the power is reduced on the scope unlike the XOTIC witch stays the same on all powers.
If any of you want more info for the purpose of trying it I will be more than glad to tell you what works for me and the gear I use.[:)]
Raptor0 -
Now I am really going to have to throw the BS FLAG.
Your range finder is off or something because there is NO WAY IN HELL YOU PUSH A 168GN AMAX out to 1500yards.
Ive seen 168s go subsonic at 1K. If not please do share your load data because I got some buds that would LOVE to shoot 168s at 1500yards.
I was going to give you the benifit of a doubt saying you were pushing 175s at 2750 but even then they drop below 1000 FPS at 1500yards. With 175s you need 76 MOA to get out to 1500 yards, IF THE BULLET CAN MAKE THE TRIP.
With the 168gn AMAX you will be dropping about 82MOA. And only traveling about 953FPS at 1500yards. Can we say KEYHOLE?
Man I would love to see a range that has calm days out to 1500yards. Where is this place at?
As for the great shots recorded by SS in Vietnam, you do realize most of those long shots were angle shots right? Meaning line of sight was probably 1900 meters but true ballistic range was far less.
As for as some of us not shooting long range here, I'd watch out who you say that to on this board. I am sure there are some men here that could and would teach you a few things.
As for me, I am lucky enough to live 30 minutes from a 1K range. I try to shoot on it once or sometimes twice a week. [:D]0 -
Our range is only 700 yards but their is about 2 miles of clear sage brush beond that.
As for the rangefinder,A shooter that had a Leica 1200 /compared was right on with my newcon to 1190 yards we did not test beond that.
Raptor0 -
So where did 1500yards come from?
Still am pretty curious about the load you shoot to push a 168gn AMAX out to 1500yards.
I ran a bunch of numbers and it looks impossible even on paper.0 -
Well I take the target out in the sagebrush to what ever distance I want![:D]
168gr Amax with a BC of .475
Winchester case.
44gr Varget powder.
CCI BR2 Primer.
AV of 2705 fps
I like that!. I ran a bunch of numbers and it looks impossible even on paper
Raptor0 -
quote:Originally posted by Stealth
Well I take the target out in the sagebrush to what ever distance I want![:D]
168gr Amax with a BC of .475
Winchester case.
44gr Varget powder.
CCI BR2 Primer.
AV of 2705 fps
I like that!. I ran a bunch of numbers and it looks impossible even on paper
Raptor
With that info, we can determine that with a 100 yard zero, your bullet drops 390.7" at 1000 and the velocity drops approx 1500'/per sec... At 1500 yards.?.?
Eric
allamericanarmsco@frontiernet.net
All American Arms Company
www.galleryofguns.com
VIP Code: AAAC
Veteran Owned and Operated0 -
LOL, no need to waste ammo to know that a 168 won't make a 1500 yard trip at 2700FPS.
So when do you think the 168 goes subsonic?
So do you get keyholing on your target?
What rifle and tube is this out of?0 -
ECC
Yes you are very close to my setting.
at 1000 drop is -365" based on 146 clicks at 1/4".( 2.5" at 1000 )
At 1500 the nearest I can figure is about 1177"drop or close to 78.5 moa.
It would be a good test to see what range my bullets keyhole.0 -
What is the size of your target at 1500yards?
So you dial in your 1000yard Zero and then hold over 5 mils to get out to 1500yards?
37MOA + 5 mils @ 1500yards?0 -
I went the route I could afford....leupold vari X I.....$200 and Im very pleased..... 0 -
I test with 2 cardboard targets one is 60"X60" with a 15" orange dot on it,This is for finding aim point because a bigger target cost less in ammo than missed shots.The second target is 40"X40" with a 15" orange dot on it. I use this after I get my aim point worked out.
I set the scope at its 1000yd zero,aim it at the target then set the power down to about 3.5X with the target still in sight (this changes the mil size bigger)raze it up 5 mils and shoot. you need calm conditions.
Yes 36.5MOA ( or 146 clicks )+ 5 mils on 3.5X at 1500yards.
If you have a Leupold M1 or a Super Sniper 10X with 20moa scope base you should be able to turn it up with about 5 turns on the turret or about 78 moa.(This is an estimation! )0 -
I am new to this form, But I have been an target shooter for a long time, and I have shot against $400 and up scopes. Your scope is only as good as you are. I seen someone write that shooting at 100 yards doesn't mean a thing. it shows that you don't shoot as much as you say you do. I have 5 5X20X50 tasco's and they work just fine. 2 are on magnum calibers and they are in line time after time. I will shoot between 700 1000 rounds in a years time and I have never had an issue with the scopes I use. I think people should post the facts on here instead of hammering people who don't use what you use. I'll take my $100 tasco and shoot in the same hole at 100 yards with more than 1 of my guns. so put that in your $1000 dollar scope and look through it. 0 -
Wait a minute,
This is with your XOTIC correct?
Because they only go down to 4X, not 3.5X.
Sendero 06
I will agree that your scope is only as good as you are but we are not talking about that. We are talking about the quality of glass.
100.00 to 200.00 scopes vs stuff in the 1000.00 range. Some claim that the 100.00 and 200.00 scopes can do what these higher end pieces of glass can do. I am just simply saying NO they can't.
Now if you spent most of your days sitting on the 100yard line, sure your Tasco can do the same thing as my Loopy or NF. Now lets back it up a few hundred yards and then tweek with your elevation and windage over and over and see if it holds zero.
Also lets see that piece of glass resolve mirage on a 100 degree day.
Don't get your panties in a bunch for no reason bud, I am not bashing anyone and any piece of equipment. Just saying some do things others cant and you get what you pay for.
Moderators: If I am out of line, sorry. Will stop posting if "feelings" are getting hurt due to my difference in opinion. [:D]0 -
100 yard shooting doesn't have to take into account all the factors that go into shooting 1000 yards. so i would suggest that you take your tasco, find a 100 yard range, and go see what you can see, or hit with it. i had a 223 heavy barrel 700 with a 4-16x tasco on it and it would shoot a ragged hole at 100 yards. 100 yard shooting doesn't really mean a thing at 1000 yards. you aren't but a 10th of the way there. i believe it shows what little you really know about 1000 yard shooting. also while writing this, i recall that the burris fullfield has a light transmission of 95% vari-x 1 is from 83-87% and a vx-II is from 85-88%. food for thought. 0 -
+1 on what bperdue21 said.
100yard is fine but i've learned that loads that shoot great at 100yards don't mean jack down range sometimes.
I learned my lesson with my 308. Now I load test at 300yards to start.0 -
Okay, a free opinion. You get what you pay for (this included). If you shoot mostly range, or varmints, or casual, the quality is not as critical. My wife uses a Simmons for her indoor small bore competition, and it works exceedingly well for that. I prefer Leupold,or Burris, as I might be out in sub zero temps, wind,rain,and snow for days. In poor light. In heavy timber. In open fields. At dusk. In hot weather. Leupold has world class customer service. Try sending a Weaver back. They have changed hands more than a dollar bill. And they won't recognize anything not made by the current owner. I have a Simmons on my .22. The brand name was put on upside down. How's that for quality control? On a technical note, the better scopes usually have much more eye relief (up to an inch more), a big factor when shooting heavy kickers, or from awkward positions (hunting). And you get larger exit pupils, for low light resolution. If I have a problem (caused usually by me) Burris or Leupold fixes it. Usualy at "No charge". Most ot the other brands I have used can't (or Won't) do that. I can't afford better, but I won't settle for less.And granted, we are all prisoners of our own experience. DEP 0 -
The simmons and tasco stuff is fine for 100yds, BUT, that is relative. I competed in a 100yd factory class match a few months back. The day was 103* under the roof of the firing line[xx(] and with that heat and very little wind, I had a great chance to check out some optics. I mosied around just bending over and looking through various scopes down the line (being careful not to touch anyones equipment). The leuoplds beat the simmons and tascos scopes HANDS DOWN for resolving mirage (that is not to say it was gone, but much better). Another very improtant thing is the ability to adjust out parallax. These $200 scopes had noticeable parallax as well. In the end, I was very pleased with my choice to top that rifle with the 5.5-22x56 Nightforce NXS as I knew for a fact that my glass was the best on the line, and in 103* temps with a rolling boil at even 100yds, glass makes a lot of points possible that the other scopes leave to the shooters who have the glass. 0 -
contacfront. What I was trying to say was that unless you are shooting in comp groups you don't need to buy high end scopes to shoot well. and as far as backing up a couple 100 more yards lets say 300 to 350 i still don't need to adjust my windage or elevation. and it's hot here also. the point I am trying to make is if you want to shoot well and hit what you are shooting at on the range and while hunting you do not need to shell out $1000 of dollars on overpriced optics. Would you take a 1000 dollar scope in the brush. I would not.
I came to this form to see if anyone has any first hand experance with Browning A-Bolt Varmint Stalker in 25 WSSM. Then when I got to reading about the optics I had to comment. So if anyone out there has first hand tested A-Bolt varmint Stalker in 25 WSSM i would like to hear from you.0 -
bperdue21. You are truly the type of person I would like to shoot against. I Have shot in 1000 yard matches and I did not use a Tasco. What I was commenting on was that you don't need them Unless you are a comp shooter.
How many Gold medals do you have for shooting.0 -
Sendero,
To answer your first question about taking my expensive glass in the field. Yes I do, each and every time I go out to do long range training (not on a range) or hunt I take my Loopy Mark 4 or my NF NXS.
Why? Not because I am some rich A-HOLE that can afford to buy this stuff, but I am a anal A-HOLE that would rather save a extra 6 months to buy equipment that has a less chance of failure out in the field.
Think about all the time, effort, resources, time away from family that you have to put in to go hunting or shooting...then to have a piece of equipment fail and ruin the trip? How screwed up would that be?
Or when there is a nice pig or deer showing up at dusk I want to be able to make that shot in low light conditions with confidence.
No hard feelings with anyone here man, just difference in opinions. We are all out here supporting the same cause....[:)]0 -
contacFront. nuff said. 0 -
[:D][:D][:D] All I can say, is what I said in my original post in this thread (I think). You get what you pay for. Contact and Bperdue could not have said it better. I don't have much extra $$$, so I have to save longer to get good optics...but I'm not going to put a junk scope on any of my rifles. The cheapest scope I have is on a .22 Mag and it's a $300 Bushnell that I bought before I knew any better. Optics are one thing not worth skimping on...especially when you are shooting for ulitmate accuracy and at long distances. 0 -
Shooot. I am just glad I am not the only one pinching pennies to buy good optics. My friends think I am nuts for waiting 6 to 8 months to buy ONE piece of glass. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by ContacFront
Shooot. I am just glad I am not the only one pinching pennies to buy good optics. My friends think I am nuts for waiting 6 to 8 months to buy ONE piece of glass.
It takes me at least that long...and I have not made the leap to NightForce yet[^]...I cannot wait to get one though![:p]0 -
Once you go to the DARK SIDE you will not go back. Let me know when you are ready.... I may be able to find you a decent deal out this way with a buddy of mine that is a dealer.
Now I am trying to make the leap to US Optics and Schmidt & Bender. [}:)]0 -
Hello,
My first post on this sight. I hunt with my equipment so it must hold up. So I have learned through the years to purchase "enough". What that means is buy at least the minimum neccessary for what you are doing. Here we hunt deer with shotguns or muzzle loaders. No need for 1000 yard optics. I have Bushnel Trophy scopes mounted on my (and my son's) slug guns and have shot a couple pretty nice bucks the last 2 years in the last 5 minutes of legal light on cloudy days. The last one at 131 yards (measured later with a brother in law and a range finder). If I could rifle hunt here and wanted to shoot 400+ yards I would but enough scope to do it. And yes I have in the past done that. My advice is buy the best you can reasonably afford without getting carried away. Then take the extra $1000 and go on another hunt. If shooting is your hobby by all means out buy your competition. I wouldn't race the Indy 500 in my pickup.0
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