Winchester Model 94, 55, & 64 Survey update
Pinned
Hello all.
I am researching/surveying all of the pre WW II production through post WW II era production Model 94s, Model 55s, and Model 64s that I can locate. For those of you who are interested and would like to participate in a survey concerning several different production changes made to the Models 94, 55, and 64, please review the information that I am specifically looking for, and then post your information here on this topic, or you can send it to me directly at Win1885@msn.com.
5/24/202 Edit 4: Well, here I am again, and still at it. As of today, I now have logged (surveyed) just shy of 25,000 specimens, and I still looking for more. For the past number of years, I have been collaborating with Robert (Bob) C. Renneberg, and have written and published a number of articles of my own discussing the Model 1894(94), Model 55, and Model 64 production. I have added serial numbers 1 - 7499 to my survey list (looking for the semi-rare "First" models. Please get in touch with me via email if you have an interest in supporting the research survey.
12/8/2014 Edit 3: I have surpassed 10,500 total serial numbers in this research survey, and I am still working towards reaching the 16,000 mark. Due to a welcome increase in the number of people who are actively assisting me with this research, I plan to continue this survey well beyond my original goal. Sometime early next year (2015), I will post the current results of the survey in an easy to read format.
9/24/2011 Edit 2: I am rapidly closing in on (5,000) total serial numbers in this survey, and I would like to surpass that mark before the end of this month. The various production numbers represented in the survey have firmed up considerably in this past year, and I do not believe that they will change by any significant % as the survey continues to progress. Still, it is my intention to keep this survey alive and growing until I reach the (16,120) total serial numbers surveyed mark (1% of the total numbers in the survey range). At that point, I will publish a statistical analysis reference document detailing my findings.
Edit 1: I have come to the realization that I need to ask all of the following questions...
1. The complete serial number (please, no partial serial numbers).
2. The exact caliber stamp marking.
3. The specific type of butt plate, e.g. Carbine, serrated steel shotgun style, flat checkered steel, hard rubber, or the checkered steel plate with the widows peak and diamond surrounding the lower screw hole.
4. The type (style) of the upper tang marking, e.g. type 5, 6, or 7, or if it is blank.
5. Is the left side of the receiver factory drilled & tapped for a peep sight?
6. Does it have U.S. martial or Canadian PCMR markings on the receiver frame?
7. Does it have a Nickel Steel or a Proof Steel marked barrel?
8. Does it have a saddle ring?
9. If in the 1,200,000 - 1,270,000 serial range, is the bottom of the receiver marked with a "W"?
10. If in the 1,260,000 - 1,330,000 serial range, does the leading "1" digit look like an "L"?
11. If in the 1,370,000 - 1,560,000 serial range, does it have a flat-band or a milled front barrel band?
12. If in the 1,700,000 - 1,770,000 serial range, does it have the long or the short forend stock?
13. If it is a Model 55, is it a Take Down or Solid frame?
14. If it is a Model 64, is it standard Rifle, a Deer Rifle (deluxe), a standard Carbine, or a deluxe Carbine?
More specifically, I am trying to determine the serial number transition points for the caliber markings on the barrel...
(1) "30 W.C.F." versus "30-30 WIN" marked barrels,
(2) "32 W.S." versus "32 WIN. SPL."
(3) "25-35 W.C.F." versus "25-35 WIN."
(4) The transition point from the traditional curved steel carbine butt plate, to the steel shotgun style with the horizontal cut lines (serrated), and again the later transition to the flat checkered steel plates.
(5) Upper Tang roll stamp types (e.g. Type 5, 6, 7, or blank)
(6) Those guns that were factory drilled & tapped for a receiver mounted peep sight (Lyman or Redfield).
(7) The transition from the milled front barrel band to the flat-band, and then back to the milled band.
(8) The exact serial range for the "W" stamped guns...
(9) The exact serial range for the leading "L" digit serial number stamped guns...
And finally, I am attempting to determine the precise serial number transition points for the Models 55 and 64.
If you own (or know of) a Model 94, 55, or 64 in the 1,000,000 - 2,700,000 serial range, please take a close look at it, and then either post, or send the information directly to me. Your name and information will remain anonymous if you email the information to me. I will post updated results in this Sticky topic as the survey progresses.
In closing, I would like to thank everyone who has contributed to this survey, and to all who particiapte in the future. [:)].
Bert H.
I am researching/surveying all of the pre WW II production through post WW II era production Model 94s, Model 55s, and Model 64s that I can locate. For those of you who are interested and would like to participate in a survey concerning several different production changes made to the Models 94, 55, and 64, please review the information that I am specifically looking for, and then post your information here on this topic, or you can send it to me directly at Win1885@msn.com.
5/24/202 Edit 4: Well, here I am again, and still at it. As of today, I now have logged (surveyed) just shy of 25,000 specimens, and I still looking for more. For the past number of years, I have been collaborating with Robert (Bob) C. Renneberg, and have written and published a number of articles of my own discussing the Model 1894(94), Model 55, and Model 64 production. I have added serial numbers 1 - 7499 to my survey list (looking for the semi-rare "First" models. Please get in touch with me via email if you have an interest in supporting the research survey.
12/8/2014 Edit 3: I have surpassed 10,500 total serial numbers in this research survey, and I am still working towards reaching the 16,000 mark. Due to a welcome increase in the number of people who are actively assisting me with this research, I plan to continue this survey well beyond my original goal. Sometime early next year (2015), I will post the current results of the survey in an easy to read format.
9/24/2011 Edit 2: I am rapidly closing in on (5,000) total serial numbers in this survey, and I would like to surpass that mark before the end of this month. The various production numbers represented in the survey have firmed up considerably in this past year, and I do not believe that they will change by any significant % as the survey continues to progress. Still, it is my intention to keep this survey alive and growing until I reach the (16,120) total serial numbers surveyed mark (1% of the total numbers in the survey range). At that point, I will publish a statistical analysis reference document detailing my findings.
Edit 1: I have come to the realization that I need to ask all of the following questions...
1. The complete serial number (please, no partial serial numbers).
2. The exact caliber stamp marking.
3. The specific type of butt plate, e.g. Carbine, serrated steel shotgun style, flat checkered steel, hard rubber, or the checkered steel plate with the widows peak and diamond surrounding the lower screw hole.
4. The type (style) of the upper tang marking, e.g. type 5, 6, or 7, or if it is blank.
5. Is the left side of the receiver factory drilled & tapped for a peep sight?
6. Does it have U.S. martial or Canadian PCMR markings on the receiver frame?
7. Does it have a Nickel Steel or a Proof Steel marked barrel?
8. Does it have a saddle ring?
9. If in the 1,200,000 - 1,270,000 serial range, is the bottom of the receiver marked with a "W"?
10. If in the 1,260,000 - 1,330,000 serial range, does the leading "1" digit look like an "L"?
11. If in the 1,370,000 - 1,560,000 serial range, does it have a flat-band or a milled front barrel band?
12. If in the 1,700,000 - 1,770,000 serial range, does it have the long or the short forend stock?
13. If it is a Model 55, is it a Take Down or Solid frame?
14. If it is a Model 64, is it standard Rifle, a Deer Rifle (deluxe), a standard Carbine, or a deluxe Carbine?
More specifically, I am trying to determine the serial number transition points for the caliber markings on the barrel...
(1) "30 W.C.F." versus "30-30 WIN" marked barrels,
(2) "32 W.S." versus "32 WIN. SPL."
(3) "25-35 W.C.F." versus "25-35 WIN."
(4) The transition point from the traditional curved steel carbine butt plate, to the steel shotgun style with the horizontal cut lines (serrated), and again the later transition to the flat checkered steel plates.
(5) Upper Tang roll stamp types (e.g. Type 5, 6, 7, or blank)
(6) Those guns that were factory drilled & tapped for a receiver mounted peep sight (Lyman or Redfield).
(7) The transition from the milled front barrel band to the flat-band, and then back to the milled band.
(8) The exact serial range for the "W" stamped guns...
(9) The exact serial range for the leading "L" digit serial number stamped guns...
And finally, I am attempting to determine the precise serial number transition points for the Models 55 and 64.
If you own (or know of) a Model 94, 55, or 64 in the 1,000,000 - 2,700,000 serial range, please take a close look at it, and then either post, or send the information directly to me. Your name and information will remain anonymous if you email the information to me. I will post updated results in this Sticky topic as the survey progresses.
In closing, I would like to thank everyone who has contributed to this survey, and to all who particiapte in the future. [:)].
Bert H.
0
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Bert, here is the info on my 1894 SRC.
1. 870481
2. 25-35 W.C.F.
3. Carbine
4. MODEL 1894
-WINCHESTER-
Trade Mark, (etc) (Can't see your pics of types)
5. No
6. No
7. Nickel Steel
8. Yes
9-14 N/A
Hope this helps, Terry0 -
I have 2 mdl 94s both are 32win spl #1753958,#2543919 0 -
quote:Originally posted by spider65
I have 2 mdl 94s both are 32win spl #1753958,#2543919
Hello Lyle,
Serial number 1753958 is a late in the year 1950 vintage gun. It was manufactured during the transition from the long forend stock to the short forend stock. Which type does it have?
Serial 2543919 is a 1962 vintage gun.
Thank you for participating in my research survey[:)]0 -
it has the short one almost identical to the otherquote:Originally posted by Bert H.
quote:Originally posted by spider65
I have 2 mdl 94s both are 32win spl #1753958,#2543919
Hello Lyle,
Serial number 1753958 is a late in the year 1950 vintage gun. It was manufactured during the transition from the long forend stock to the short forend stock. Which type does it have?
Serial 2543919 is a 1962 vintage gun.
Thank you for participating in my research survey[:)]0 -
bert, i'm looking for a 1939 year 94. does 1,202,446 fit that year? thanks, mike 0 -
Mike, yes it does, serial numbers for 1939 started at 1,198,406 and ended at 1,216,165. 0 -
Bert, Here is one I got from Paul.V today. I've been working on this one for a while and you may have seen it before. I been staring at it for a couple of years.
Model 1894 rifle
32 W.S. Ser # 403,358
26 round matted barrel, matting stops at the rear sight dovetail
sling swivels, engraved factory for sure as the rec proof mark is down off the side to avoid the engraving. Barrel proof is in a circle in the engraving that goes forward to the rear sight. We think it was matted and engraved at the same time.
Full length mag tube.
Straight grip checkered stocks. Type H. 3X wood.
Nickel or silver plated crescent butt plate
Front sight. One I have never seen before. It is a blade type with a thin blade with a round rod at the top. Half of this blade is copper/bronze plated to make it appear as a bead sight when looking down the barrel. The address on the sight says W.F. SHEARE TACOMA WASH. on the other side it has a patent date PAT. JUNE 12,1900.
Rear sight is a ramp type with a thin globe and a very small v notch in the center of the globe. The bottom half of the globe has a plate with the notch in it. Much like a Beech sight. No name or date that i can see. It is 2-3/16" from the center of the dovetail to the back if the globe.
We think it went to the factory for an R&R It received a new barrel and the matting and engraving then. Finish on all is 90% or so. Very nice gun. The prettiest one I own. The Days have looked it over and they thought it all looked correct. I wonder about the sights though. I just don't know enough.0 -
Kyle,
I seem to remember the rifle... vaguely.
The Sheard front sight is correct. Winchester installed them on special order right around the turn of the century. Sheard eventually sold all of his patents to Marbles, and they continued to make the sights. I am not sure what type of rear sight you are describing. Please post a picture of it, or send pictures directly to me (Win1885@msn.com)0 -
Hello - I am researching a 1894 Winchester SRC in 30WCF with no visible serial number. The barrel inscriptions are nearly worn off, so while I could believe the serial number was scrubbed off, the receiver contours compare well enough to the pictures in your posting, I believe it could have left the factory without a serial number.
2. Caliber marked on barrel is 30 W.C.F. The "3" is almost worn off.
3. The steel buttplate is crescent shaped, no diamond around screw.
4. The pictures describing tang markings 5,6,7 are no longer available. Between the two tang screws and dashes, all caps is "WINCHESTER" . Under WINCHESTER, all caps is "TRADE MARK REG.IN U.S. PAT. OFF."
5. Never been drilled or tapped.
6. No visible martial marks that I'm familiar with, no cartouches in wood.
7. ? steel. Only letters readable on barrel are "N U.S.A." AND "3 AUGUST 2"
8. Does have saddle ring.
12. Solid frame
13. Uncheckered wood. one sling loop in butt. Wood has varnish on top of dirty, unprepared wood. Milled front barrel band. Bright new front barrel band (non-original). Flaking blue under both bareel bands, magazine tube under forend dull blue. Older style rear sight, numbers and graduations worn off.
Is there an internal serial number that I can look for or a means of finding the year of production? Thank you0 -
quote:Originally posted by potree
Hello - I am researching a 1894 Winchester SRC in 30WCF with no visible serial number. The barrel inscriptions are nearly worn off, so while I could believe the serial number was scrubbed off, the receiver contours compare well enough to the pictures in your posting, I believe it could have left the factory without a serial number.
2. Caliber marked on barrel is 30 W.C.F. The "3" is almost worn off.
3. The steel buttplate is crescent shaped, no diamond around screw.
4. The pictures describing tang markings 5,6,7 are no longer available. Between the two tang screws and dashes, all caps is "WINCHESTER" . Under WINCHESTER, all caps is "TRADE MARK REG.IN U.S. PAT. OFF."
5. Never been drilled or tapped.
6. No visible martial marks that I'm familiar with, no cartouches in wood.
7. ? steel. Only letters readable on barrel are "N U.S.A." AND "3 AUGUST 2"
8. Does have saddle ring.
12. Solid frame
13. Uncheckered wood. one sling loop in butt. Wood has varnish on top of dirty, unprepared wood. Milled front barrel band. Bright new front barrel band (non-original). Flaking blue under both bareel bands, magazine tube under forend dull blue. Older style rear sight, numbers and graduations worn off.
Is there an internal serial number that I can look for or a means of finding the year of production? Thank you
Your Model 1894 orignally had a serial number on it (as did all of them that left the factory for commercial sales). From your description, your gun has heavy wear to the metal surfaces, or it has been buffed & polished at some point and refinished.
The upper tang marking on your gun was in use between serial numbers 450,000 - 750,000 (1910 - 1915).0 -
I have a Model 1894 winchester 38-55 serial LL47L3, crecent steel buttplate 26" octagon barrel. Trying to find the year it was made. Can not find any info on the serial number at all. Please help. Thanks 0 -
quote:Originally posted by 32-20onr
I have a Model 1894 winchester 38-55 serial LL47L3, crecent steel buttplate 26" octagon barrel. Trying to find the year it was made. Can not find any info on the serial number at all. Please help. Thanks
The serial number is actually "114713", and it was manufactured in May of 1901.0 -
Wow! That is impressive! Thank you. Now my next decision is to decide whether to restore this nice rifle. At some point in time someone tried to remove the bluing. It still looks nice and functions very well with nice rifling. The forword stock is in good condition for the age but the butt stock has been repaired long ago and does not look safe to shoot, though I do not know how much this rifle kicks to make a good judgment on that.
It was a retirement gift from my grandfather who received it as partial payment on a 1952 International pickup. He never shot it. It has been in a gun cabinet for decades.
I would love to put down a nice Alabama buck with it in the near future. What a story that would be!
Thanks again.0 -
Hello Bert,
I would like to enter my recently aquired Mod 94 into your database so here goes.
1 1520272
2 30 WCF
3 flat checkered steel
4 blank
5 drilled & tapped, very neat appearing in proper location with plug
screws. Not factory?
6 no
7 proof steel
8 no
9 n/a
10 n/a
11 flat band
12 n/a
13 n/a
14 n/a
Would like to add that the forend on my 94 is of the long style and extends approx. 2" past the center band.0 -
quote:Originally posted by rwg
Hello Bert,
I would like to enter my recently aquired Mod 94 into your database so here goes.
1 1520272
2 30 WCF
3 flat checkered steel
4 blank
5 drilled & tapped, very neat appearing in proper location with plug
screws. Not factory?
6 no
7 proof steel
8 no
9 n/a
10 n/a
11 flat band
12 n/a
13 n/a
14 n/a
Would like to add that the forend on my 94 is of the long style and extends approx. 2" past the center band.
The drilled & tapped receiver holes could be original (special order), but I can not say for sure without examining them. Everything else about your 1948 vintage flat-band carbine is normal.
Thanks[:)]0 -
quote:Originally posted by Bert H.
quote:Originally posted by rwg
Hello Bert,
I would like to enter my recently aquired Mod 94 into your database so here goes.
1 1520272
2 30 WCF
3 flat checkered steel
4 blank
5 drilled & tapped, very neat appearing in proper location with plug
screws. Not factory?
6 no
7 proof steel
8 no
9 n/a
10 n/a
11 flat band
12 n/a
13 n/a
14 n/a
Would like to add that the forend on my 94 is of the long style and extends approx. 2" past the center band.
The drilled & tapped receiver holes could be original (special order), but I can not say for sure without examining them. Everything else about your 1948 vintage flat-band carbine is normal.
Thanks[:)]
Thanks Bert for your data, much appreciated. Oh, and I need to mention that the carbine and I are the same age! Vintage year no doubt LOL.0 -
Hey Bert, I was in Denver last week and found a carbine you may be interested in.
Ser # 1342899 30 WCF
Std eastern carbine, serrated flat butt plate, sling swivels, The front one is missing but it appears that it did not fit the mag tube but was on a second band right behind the forearm barrel band. It does have two Canadian proof marks. It's a "C" with the three lines through the center. The two are different size, one on the bottom front left side of the receiver,(smaller 3/8" dia C). The larger one is on the left side of the butt stock centered 2" from the butt plate.(1/2"dia) Both are oriented (rotated) about 90 deg CCW. I assume from the coast watchers.
Condition about 60%, missing chips of wood and spotted bluing. Missing hood on the front ramp sight. Replaced rear sight. All screws untouched as best I can tell.
I now have an honest WW2 carbine. I met a friend of yours says you stop and see him often. BTW Paul V's health is getting worse. I had lunch with him today. Kyle0 -
Oops, I also picked up an 86 straight grip deluxe 3X matted barrel 85% 33wcf with a box of org ammo and a couple of other treasures. K 0 -
quote:Originally posted by kylew
Hey Bert, I was in Denver last week and found a carbine you may be interested in.
Ser # 1342899 30 WCF
Std eastern carbine, serrated flat butt plate, sling swivels, The front one is missing but it appears that it did not fit the mag tube but was on a second band right behind the forearm barrel band. It does have two Canadian proof marks. It's a "C" with the three lines through the center. The two are different size, one on the bottom front left side of the receiver,(smaller 3/8" dia C). The larger one is on the left side of the butt stock centered 2" from the butt plate.(1/2"dia) Both are oriented (rotated) about 90 deg CCW. I assume from the coast watchers.
Condition about 60%, missing chips of wood and spotted bluing. Missing hood on the front ramp sight. Replaced rear sight. All screws untouched as best I can tell.
I now have an honest WW2 carbine. I met a friend of yours says you stop and see him often. BTW Paul V's health is getting worse. I had lunch with him today. Kyle
Hello Kyle,
What you have is a PCMR (Pacific Coast Militia Rangers) Carbine, and it is now the highest serial number in my survey of PCMR Carbines. Per the PR records, it was serialized July 29th, 1942, less than one month before production of the Model 94 was suspended until November of 1944.
Can you send me some pictures of it? Does it have a Type-7 upper tang marking and not drilled & tapped for a tang sight? Please send me an email.
I am sorry to hear the Paul's health is declining so quickly. I just saw and spoke with him in Reno last month.0 -
I will try and get you some photos. I may need to send them directly to you. Paul and Inez were in Sacramento at the antique truck show after Reno and she developed a clot and almost did not make it home. I call her mom. Those two and their boys are some of my very dearest friends. It is very hard to watch their impending exit. Kyle 0 -
quote:Originally posted by kylew
I will try and get you some photos. I may need to send them directly to you. Paul and Inez were in Sacramento at the antique truck show after Reno and she developed a clot and almost did not make it home. I call her mom. Those two and their boys are some of my very dearest friends. It is very hard to watch their impending exit. Kyle
Kyle,
Please do send them directly to me.
I understand your trepidation... I too have watched too many friends and acquaintances go dowhhill and slip away in the past few years[:(]0 -
Bert, A while back I sent you a list of 94's, 64's and 55's for your survey. I also previously owned a Model 64 rifle, cal. .32WS, ser. no. 1,114,731. It was a standard rifle in all respects. That's all the info I have. And, I'm not sure if I already submitted this to you. 0 -
Bert, I think you mentioned surveying Model 65's. I also owned Model 65, cal. .218 Bee, ser. no. 1,004,840. Standard rifle. No other info. 0 -
oakridge,
Thanks for the update[:)]0 -
I have a pre-64 (I believe 1953 manufacture) if you are interested in info on something that new? 0 -
quote:Originally posted by Canuck56
I have a pre-64 (I believe 1953 manufacture) if you are interested in info on something that new?
Yes, I am interested in all Model 55, 64, and 94s made in the years 1924 - 1963.0 -
I just got a Winchester 94 with the following characteristics:
1. S/N 1339517
2. Cal 30 W.C.F.
3. Serrated butt plate
4. WINCHESTER / TRADE MARK / MADE IN U.S.A.
5. No
6. Canadian broad arrow (upside down) on receiver, butt, forend
7. WINCHESTER PROOF STEEL on barrel
8. No saddle ring
9. N/A
10. Yes
11 - 14. N/A
Attached to the butt stock is what appears to be the rear sling swivel from a Ross rifle. The forward sling swivel (from a No. 4 Enfield) is attached to the gun by means of a sheet metal band, 1/2 inch wide, held in place with an ordinary 10X24 1/2 inch bolt & nut. The sling is the standard British web Enfield sling with a Canadian maker's mark.
One interesting feature of this rifle is that the stock has a beautiful fiddle-back grain to it. Not at all like the standard straight-grain walnut that you usually see.0 -
quote:Originally posted by RRConductor
I just got a Winchester 94 with the following characteristics:
1. S/N 1339517
2. Cal 30 W.C.F.
3. Serrated butt plate
4. WINCHESTER / TRADE MARK / MADE IN U.S.A.
5. No
6. Canadian broad arrow (upside down) on receiver, butt, forend
7. WINCHESTER PROOF STEEL on barrel
8. No saddle ring
9. N/A
10. Yes
11 - 14. N/A
Attached to the butt stock is what appears to be the rear sling swivel from a Ross rifle. The forward sling swivel (from a No. 4 Enfield) is attached to the gun by means of a sheet metal band, 1/2 inch wide, held in place with an ordinary 10X24 1/2 inch bolt & nut. The sling is the standard British web Enfield sling with a Canadian maker's mark.
One interesting feature of this rifle is that the stock has a beautiful fiddle-back grain to it. Not at all like the standard straight-grain walnut that you usually see.
Thank you very much for posting the information on your PCMR Carbine![:)]0 -
What I have is a model 94, 30-30 Winchester
Barrel stamp says; Made in New Haven Conn. U.S. of America
Winchester proof steel
Nothing on the tang and no screw for tang sight, steel cross checkered butt plate, no saddle ring.
Serial number 19183230 -
quote:Originally posted by Canuck56
What I have is a model 94, 30-30 Winchester
Barrel stamp says; Made in New Haven Conn. U.S. of America
Winchester proof steel
Nothing on the tang and no screw for tang sight, steel cross checkered butt plate, no saddle ring.
Serial number 1918323
Hello Canuck56,
Your Model 94 is a 1952 vintage gun. Is it drilled & tapped on the upper left (rear) side of the receiver frame for a peep sight?0
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