Gun Rights
I am a new person when it comes to gun ownership.
Ive always been fascinated by guns, always wanted to have them. I am 18 so my life is young. I have a Mossberg 640T 22 Mag, About to buy a Benelli Super Nova and will buy a Black rifle in the near future as well as plenty of other guns as i get older.
I want to join an organization that will fight for my gun rights and will try to preserve the 2nd amendment. The first org that comes to mind is the NRA but i wanted to ask you guys if there are anymore or better organizations that i could look into.
Ive always been fascinated by guns, always wanted to have them. I am 18 so my life is young. I have a Mossberg 640T 22 Mag, About to buy a Benelli Super Nova and will buy a Black rifle in the near future as well as plenty of other guns as i get older.
I want to join an organization that will fight for my gun rights and will try to preserve the 2nd amendment. The first org that comes to mind is the NRA but i wanted to ask you guys if there are anymore or better organizations that i could look into.
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quote:Originally posted by slumlord44
Join the NRA. Not perfect but nothing is. Some people here hate them, but I go to a lot of gun shows and never find NRA haters there. GOA is also good and do not forget your state rifle association if there is one.
It isn't about hate.
It is simply about the FACT that they support gun-control and work with government to ensure a system of anti-constitutional gun-privileges, rather than standing against infringement.
This concept is regularly poo-poo'd or ignored by many, leading me to the inescapable concluson that those who do so are supportive of certain forms of gun-control also.
Gun-control is expressly contrary to the Constitution.
Willing and knowing support for an organization that promotes and furthers gun-control is clear support for gun-control.
Do the math.
It is a dirt-simple equation.0 -
Far as I can tell, it is a symbiotic relationship between the NRA and the government in so far as, gun control fits into the feds marxist agenda and the bans and threats of bans validate the existence of the NRA, meanng they make more money.
Thats why they never fight for consitutional carry and such. by doing so it would be pretty much the same as Robbing themselves of money. And they like money. Alot.
the threat of a ban ensures they get money, carry permits insures they get their cut of the proceeds of the permits.
It is about time someone replaces them as the group that fights for gun rights, and they just stick with training, and selling insurance and whatever else it is they peddle. then there would be no conflict of interests that compromise our gun rights away for profit.[;)]
Thats what the folks who are behind these law suites going to the supreme court are trying to do. Circumvent the strangle hold of the NRA to actually get gun rights insured, that once insured makes the NRA moot.
you follow me?
lt, the NRA had no hand in the passing of consitutional carry down in AZ did they?0 -
quote:Originally posted by Don McManus
Lately, the Cato Institute, the GOA (Gun-owners of America), and the SAF (Second Amendment Foundation) have been leading the charge to repeal 2nd Amendment infringements.
The most prominent examples being Heller and McDonald, of course, but much good work, particularly by the SAF, has been done in local venues across the country.
How about some specific examples to back up your claims? You will not find many example. I will agree on the Cato Institute and the Heller vs DC with the exception that the actual lawsuit was filed and funded by a lone, wealthy individual who just happened to be a prominent member of the Cato institute. In addition, if you are going to mention the Heller vs DC lawsuit you should also mention that the NRA had two of their lawyers in the courtroom arguing the case also.
And if you appreciate organizations like the Cato Institute filing pro-gun lawsuits in court, then why don't you appreciate the NRA for the countless lawsuits they have filed in court?
In regards to the other organizations you mention, they make some headlines on rare occasions, but I sadly have not seen many actual results from them.
You professional NRA haters now have premission to flame away. I may or may not read your comments and I most likely will definately not respond to them.0 -
quote:Originally posted by tr fox
quote:Originally posted by Don McManus
Lately, the Cato Institute, the GOA (Gun-owners of America), and the SAF (Second Amendment Foundation) have been leading the charge to repeal 2nd Amendment infringements.
The most prominent examples being Heller and McDonald, of course, but much good work, particularly by the SAF, has been done in local venues across the country.
How about some specific examples to back up your claims? You will not find many example. I will agree on the Cato Institute and the Heller vs DC with the exception that the actual lawsuit was filed and funded by a lone, wealthy individual who just happened to be a prominent member of the Cato institute. In addition, if you are going to mention the Heller vs DC lawsuit you should also mention that the NRA had two of their lawyers in the courtroom arguing the case also.
And if you appreciate organizations like the Cato Institute filing pro-gun lawsuits in court, then why don't you appreciate the NRA for the countless lawsuits they have filed in court?
In regards to the other organizations you mention, they make some headlines on rare occasions, but I sadly have not seen many actual results from them.
You professional NRA haters now have premission to flame away. I may or may not read your comments and I most likely will definately not respond to them.
Are you really brain dead? Or do you just pretend to be brain dead on GB forums? Why is such a vocal proponent of gun control even here?
NRA tried their best to torpedo Heller, as a proper ruling would have put the profit-side of their business, out of business. They were in panic mode. ONLY after having failed at that, did they step in and attempt to argue it from the weakest legal standpoint available, hoping to assure a wishy washy pro-gun-control, anti-liberty decision. Once again, they were successful, eh fox? Moron.[xx(]0 -
quote:Originally posted by tr fox
quote:Originally posted by Don McManus
Lately, the Cato Institute, the GOA (Gun-owners of America), and the SAF (Second Amendment Foundation) have been leading the charge to repeal 2nd Amendment infringements.
The most prominent examples being Heller and McDonald, of course, but much good work, particularly by the SAF, has been done in local venues across the country.
How about some specific examples to back up your claims? You will not find many example. I will agree on the Cato Institute and the Heller vs DC with the exception that the actual lawsuit was filed and funded by a lone, wealthy individual who just happened to be a prominent member of the Cato institute. In addition, if you are going to mention the Heller vs DC lawsuit you should also mention that the NRA had two of their lawyers in the courtroom arguing the case also.
And if you appreciate organizations like the Cato Institute filing pro-gun lawsuits in court, then why don't you appreciate the NRA for the countless lawsuits they have filed in court?
In regards to the other organizations you mention, they make some headlines on rare occasions, but I sadly have not seen many actual results from them.
You professional NRA haters now have premission to flame away. I may or may not read your comments and I most likely will definately not respond to them.
Your lack of response, Mr. Fox, would only mirror your lack of interest in the full tapestry of 2nd Amendment Rights activism.
In under a minute, the following was found on the SAF website. 'Sadly' is correct in that you spend inordinate amounts of time bemoaning those that do not support the NRA, but choose to remain purposefully ignorant of any activity outside the NRA/ILA. Sad indeed...
http://saf.org/default.asp?p=legalaction#index
From the link:
Gun Rights Legal Action
Index
NJ Permit Denial
SAF Sues N.J. Officials For 'Deprivation of Civil Rights' On Permit Denials
DC Misdemeanor
SAF Sues Eric Holder, FBI Over Misdemeanor Gun Rights Denial
Nordyke Lawsuit
SAF Files Amicus Brief in Nordyke Case, Argues For Strict Scrutiny
Chicago Lawsuit #2
SAF Sues Chicago Over Gun Range Prohibition On 1A, 2A Grounds
Maryland Lawsuit
SAF Sues in Maryland Over Handgun Permit Denial
New York Lawsuit
SAF Sues in New York to Void 'Good Cause' Carry Permit Requirement
North Carolina Lawsuit
SAF Sues to Overturn North Carolina's 'Emergency Powers' Gun Bans
DC Handgun Carry Lawsuit
SAF Sues District of Columbia over Carrying of Handguns
Seattle Parks Gun Ban Lawsuit
Gun Rights Organizations Win Lawsuit to Stop Seattle Ban
CA Denial of Right Lawsuit
SAF Challenges Arbitrary Denial of Right to Bear Arms in California
CA Roster Lawsuit
SAF Challenges California Handgun Ban Scheme
DC Expat Lawsuit
SAF Sues Eric Holder Over Gun Rights of Non-resident American Citizens
DC Handgun Roster Lawsuit
SAF Challenges D.C. Handgun Ban Scheme
WA Alien Resident Lawsuit
SAF, NRA Sue Washington State for Discriminating Against Alien Residents
Hayes Lawsuit
SAF Files Amicus Brief in Hayes Case
Chicago Gun Ban
SAF Files Lawsuit Challenging Chicago's Handgun Ban
DC Gun Ban
SAF Files Amici Curiae Brief in Lawsuit; DC Gun Ban Ruled Unconstitutional
San Francisco Gun Ban
SAF Sues to Overturn San Francisco Gun Ban
New Orleans Gun Grab Lawsuit
SAF Stops New Orleans Gun Confiscation
Washington State Library Lawsuit
SAF Sues Library System Over Internet Censorship of Gun Websites
Texas 'Sporting Purposes' Lawsuit
SAF Files Texas Lawsuit Defending the Gun Rights of Citizens Living Abroad, Challenges 'Sporting Purpose' Restriction
Ohio 'Sporting Purposes' Lawsuit
SAF Files Ohio Lawsuit Defending the Gun Rights of Citizens Living Abroad, Challenges 'Sporting Purpose' Restriction
Your dismissal of the CATO Institute's contributions are particularly telling in that in the McDonald case CATO pursued a true incorporation of the 2nd, only to be undermined by the NRA in their pursuit of a 'due process' incorporation. Obviously a due process incorporation sustains the NRA/ILA ability to milk monies from the gun rights sheep. A privileges and immunities incorporation would effectively put the NRA/ILA out of business, as it is a natural/human rights (I.E. Constitutional) approach.
If you had an actual interest or concern about our 2nd Amendment Rights, you would perform the due diligence to investigate that about which you speak. You would also take a little bit of time to try and understand why the NRA/ILA adopts the positions it adopts. As it is, you obviously have buried your head in the sand, accepted the 'Too big to challenge' mantra of the NRA/ILA, and either agree with the anti-Constitutional restrictions promoted by the NRA/ILA, or simply do not understand the difference between the NRA's 'Gun Rights' and CATO's (and the founders) '2nd Amendment Rights'.
Edit:
Mr. Fox, its been a full week. Any thoughts?0 -
That's a pretty good list, considering that they haven't been around all that long. 0 -
Thanks for posting that list, Don. I like SAF and GOA because although they may not win every time, they do the right thing every time.
I value "what is right" over "declaring victory in every battle." I guess that's why I'm not an NRA member.0 -
I was a collector & smith for 30+ years in MARYLAND and as far as I know there is NO organization out there that will help ( a person ) with gun rights ! 0 -
As a general guideline the NRA is not a good organization to join if you want to support a group dedicating to defending the Second Amendment. In fact, the NRA does not really defend the Second Amendment it promotes shooting sports and hunting but mainly promotes itself. My advice, steer clear-don't waste your money.
Gun Owners of America is the best nationally recognized organization dedicated to defending the Second Amendment. You should also research groups within your state. I live in North Carolina where the best state-wide organization is Grass Roots North Carolina.
If you're interested in some quick background about NRA corruption and how supportive they can be to anti-gun incumbents the NC Tea Partyhttp://www.ncteaparty.com/category/hot-topics/2nd-amendment/ published some articles about the NRA's betrayal. You will need to scroll to the bottom of the page to read the first article in a series of three installments0
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