In case you NRA members didn't know
This survey by Frank Lutz indicates that you want to close the gun show loophole. It clearly states that you want to infringe upon the 2nd Amendment. It clearly shows that 85% of NRA member do not support the RKBA.
http://www.mayorsagainstillegalguns.org/downloads/pdf/luntz_poll_slides.pdf
If you go to the http://www.closetheloophole.org/
website....it will let you NRA members know what you condone and desire.
http://www.mayorsagainstillegalguns.org/downloads/pdf/luntz_poll_slides.pdf
If you go to the http://www.closetheloophole.org/
website....it will let you NRA members know what you condone and desire.
0
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quote:Originally posted by Jim Rau
The point is, you and many here, have a very closed mind and are full of hate and discontent which is a real 'turn off' to those we are trying to convince that gun ownership is good. Many progressives call the NRA the enemy. They are extremists, are you an extremist also???[?]
And here I thought we lived in a Republic not a Democracy, hmm. I guess I will just have to reread the Constitution again.0 -
quote:Originally posted by RTKBA
quote:Originally posted by Jim Rau
The point is, you and many here, have a very closed mind and are full of hate and discontent which is a real 'turn off' to those we are trying to convince that gun ownership is good. Many progressives call the NRA the enemy. They are extremists, are you an extremist also???[?]
And here I thought we lived in a Republic not a Democracy, hmm. I guess I will just have to reread the Constitution again.
If you can snap your fingers and 'make it so' go for it. If not come back to reality and work with us to get our freedoms back! It will be a slow, aggravating process, but it will take ALL of us to do. In other words, small steps, the NRA is a part of this. You feel they are sell out because they are not moving as fast as you would like and not doing things exactly the way you think they should, we get it! But to call them the 'enemy' is totally illogical!!![V]0 -
quote:Originally posted by Jim Rau
quote:Originally posted by RTKBA
quote:Originally posted by Jim Rau
The point is, you and many here, have a very closed mind and are full of hate and discontent which is a real 'turn off' to those we are trying to convince that gun ownership is good. Many progressives call the NRA the enemy. They are extremists, are you an extremist also???[?]
And here I thought we lived in a Republic not a Democracy, hmm. I guess I will just have to reread the Constitution again.
If you can snap your fingers and 'make it so' go for it. If not come back to reality and work with us to get our freedoms back! It will be a slow, aggravating process, but it will take ALL of us to do. In other words, small steps, the NRA is a part of this. You feel they are sell out because they are not moving as fast as you would like and not doing things exactly the way you think they should, we get it! But to call them the 'enemy' is totally illogical!!![V]
Good lord, Jim...
One cannot adopt a lost position and logically attempt to win back 'freedoms'. You have already conceded them as lost.
Secondly, who gives a flying ***** if some people get their feelers hurt or are turned off by the simple and factual claiming of a fundamental liberty? Any who do are part of the problem, not the solution.
It will certainly NOT take 'all' of us to restore the Republic. There are many who you seem to call allies, that work against any possibility of doing so and for a man who constantly speaks about accepting 'reality', this is silliness of the highest order and an abject failure to see and accept that very 'reality' he preaches about.
You are correct that the NRA is 'part of this'. They play a direct part and role in subverting the text and intent of Amendment II and they have done so, with full knowledge, since at least the 1920's.
Do some research for God's sake.
For anyone to believe that adopting and supporting an organization that is dedicated to advancing and maintaining the 'privilege' for citizens to own and use firearms, while at the same time openly WORKING TO codify regulation, control, prohibitions, restrictions, prior restraint ect., into law at the federal and state level, all the while, insinuating themselves into the preeminent lobbying and licensing/training position in an incestuous partnership with government, well, your version of 'reality' and of what is an 'ally' is a mite-skewed, as I see it.
How any man can fail to see that the position of liberty and fundamental constitutionally-enumerated rights must be claimed and held, rather than willingly adopting that they are lost, and subsequently believing that such a fundamental right will EVER be recognized by government once it is conceded to be abrogated, is, well, as far from reality as it is possible to be.
Jim, there will NEVER be any adoption of your position by a constitutionalist, just as one with your beliefs will NEVER adopt the position of liberty and constitutionalism.
This is true in the field of rights, of voting, of governance and of any related topic.
The divide is at the opposing Ethic of 'Collectivism vs. Individualism', when it is boiled down to its lowest possible level. Fact is, it always has been, but most don't even know it.
And so it goes.
(edit by pick, now now)0 -
quote:Originally posted by Jim Rau
The point is, you and many here, have a very closed mind and are full of hate and discontent which is a real 'turn off' to those we are trying to convince that gun ownership is good. Many progressives call the NRA the enemy. They are extremists, are you an extremist also???[?]
If I am full of hate, it is because I feel betrayed by the NRA. I, like Mark mentioned above, was introduced by family and then felt pressure to "do something for gun rights" and joined the NRA. Then, lo and behold, they're working for gun control under the auspices of being a gun rights advocate? I despise that to my core. If you enjoy the hypocrisy, I wonder why that is. I doubt it's a matter of "strange bedfellows".
Makes me sick.[xx(]0 -
quote:Originally posted by Jim Rau
If you can snap your fingers and 'make it so' go for it. If not come back to reality and work with us to get our freedoms back! It will be a slow, aggravating process, but it will take ALL of us to do. In other words, small steps, the NRA is a part of this. You feel they are sell out because they are not moving as fast as you would like and not doing things exactly the way you think they should, we get it! But to call them the 'enemy' is totally illogical!!![V]
A large misconception here, Jim.
It is not that the NRA is 'not moving fast enough'. Many NRA positions factually set back the movement towards actual individual rights to keep and bear arms by substituting legislation that creates the power of the state to license, register and regulate.
One only need review the history of the McDonald decision to understand the motive of the NRA.
Alan Gura and The Second Amendment Foundation set out to win the case using the Privileges and Immunities (i.e. Individual Rights) Clause of the 14th Amendment. The NRA steps in and testifies for the use of the Due Process (State Legislative Permission) Clause.
Why?
The argument was that it would be easier to get a positive decision. While this may be true, it changed the 2nd Amendment from a guarantee of a right of the individual citizen to a toothless demand upon State and Local Governments that they can license, restrict and regulate all they want so long as they do not completely deny access to firearms from their citizens.
The 'Not Fast Enough' argument is false.
The NRA actively works against Individual Right stated int he 2nd Amendment by lobbying for legislative privileges.0 -
Look at like this guys.
You are gong the wrong way down the road at 60+ mph. Your goal is go the right/other way. If you simply crank the steering wheel hard and try to turn around you will end up in a big wreck.
You MUST first slow the vehicle down going the wrong way, then when it is stopped you MUST carefully turn around and then, and only then can you go down the right road.
You all need to stop jerking the wheel or you are going to end up in a big wreck!!!!![;)]0 -
quote:Originally posted by Jim Rau
Look at like this guys.
You are gong the wrong way down the road at 60+ mph. Your goal is go the right/other way. If you simply crank the steering wheel hard and try to turn around you will end up in a big wreck.
You MUST first slow the vehicle down going the wrong way, then when it is stopped you MUST carefully turn around and then, and only then can you go down the right road.
You all need to stop jerking the wheel or you are going to end up in a big wreck!!!!![;)]
LOL you're a hoot Jim.
What you fail to realize is that vehicle wrecked a long time ago. And while some of us got out and are trying to fix the vehicle people like your self decided to keep walking down that wrong road. Good luck someday I hope you figure out how to get back to the right road.0 -
quote:Originally posted by Jim Rau
Look at like this guys.
You are gong the wrong way down the road at 60+ mph. Your goal is go the right/other way. If you simply crank the steering wheel hard and try to turn around you will end up in a big wreck.
You MUST first slow the vehicle down going the wrong way, then when it is stopped you MUST carefully turn around and then, and only then can you go down the right road.
You all need to stop jerking the wheel or you are going to end up in a big wreck!!!!![;)]
Actually, we're the ones going the right way, you're the one going the wrong way, and jerking the wheel as you go. As I see it.0 -
quote:Originally posted by RTKBA
quote:Originally posted by Jim Rau
Look at like this guys.
You are gong the wrong way down the road at 60+ mph. Your goal is go the right/other way. If you simply crank the steering wheel hard and try to turn around you will end up in a big wreck.
You MUST first slow the vehicle down going the wrong way, then when it is stopped you MUST carefully turn around and then, and only then can you go down the right road.
You all need to stop jerking the wheel or you are going to end up in a big wreck!!!!![;)]
LOL you're a hoot Jim.
What you fail to realize is that vehicle wrecked a long time ago. And while some of us got out and are trying to fix the vehicle people like your self decided to keep walking down that wrong road. Good luck someday I hope you figure out how to get back to the right road.
So to you all is lost, the wreck has happened and we are all dead ! I feel sorry for you. Some of us don't give up that easy!!!![;)]0 -
quote:Originally posted by Mr. Perfect
quote:Originally posted by Jim Rau
Look at like this guys.
You are gong the wrong way down the road at 60+ mph. Your goal is go the right/other way. If you simply crank the steering wheel hard and try to turn around you will end up in a big wreck.
You MUST first slow the vehicle down going the wrong way, then when it is stopped you MUST carefully turn around and then, and only then can you go down the right road.
You all need to stop jerking the wheel or you are going to end up in a big wreck!!!!![;)]
Actually, we're the ones going the right way, you're the one going the wrong way, and jerking the wheel as you go. As I see it.
So you are gong the right way, what are your accomplishments so far. I have not seen you cause any positive changes in the current laws or environment as a result of your stand on this! The only thing I (and many others) see is some bitter, closed mined, folks who seem to have nothing positive to help in this fight. Only criticism and attempts to hinder and attack those who really do give a chitt and work to get things changed.[V]0 -
quote:Originally posted by Jim Rau
Look at like this guys.
You are gong the wrong way down the road at 60+ mph. Your goal is go the right/other way. If you simply crank the steering wheel hard and try to turn around you will end up in a big wreck.
You MUST first slow the vehicle down going the wrong way, then when it is stopped you MUST carefully turn around and then, and only then can you go down the right road.
You all need to stop jerking the wheel or you are going to end up in a big wreck!!!!![;)]
How is the NRA slowing down the vehicle, Jim?
At best, they are maintaining speed and telling us they are looking for an off-ramp, while deliberately missing them whenever they present themselves. One need only reference Heller, McDonald, support for national CCW, support for NCIS, continuing with the 'right to carry holder', and 'law abiding gunowner' mantra.
There is no slowing down at present. Only an aggressive legislative agenda designed to put more laws on the books. Look at GOA and SAF. These two organizations work to strike down laws that exist, not add to the existing maze.0 -
Since the last time I was here, almost 3 years past I see that some level of give and take is observed. I refuse to rise to the barbs of trolls. Those whom are Pro Gun Impostors. I think that it's pretty well established and known Common Knowledge (Many types and different
levels thereof) that The Propaganda Meisters for the Globalist Cabal of which Obammy and
his Aniti-Semite Illuminati Master(s) not the least of which is George Soros, (TRAITOR to all
Yehudim ) of whom I number myself to all who stand with Eretz Yisrael here (a big Chag Chanukkah to all of ya'll from South Carolina!!! ) THEY the establishment OBOTS (those whom
admit they voted from him show the first signs of recovery, like the 9 steps to recovery from
alcoholism) are always going to show up places like here and sow seeds of discord. They are masters of spin and can make up reams of false data to suit their agenda. TO misinform and thereby divide and conquer.
Thomas0 -
Whew. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by Jim Rau
quote:Originally posted by Mr. Perfect
quote:Originally posted by Jim Rau
Look at like this guys.
You are gong the wrong way down the road at 60+ mph. Your goal is go the right/other way. If you simply crank the steering wheel hard and try to turn around you will end up in a big wreck.
You MUST first slow the vehicle down going the wrong way, then when it is stopped you MUST carefully turn around and then, and only then can you go down the right road.
You all need to stop jerking the wheel or you are going to end up in a big wreck!!!!![;)]
Actually, we're the ones going the right way, you're the one going the wrong way, and jerking the wheel as you go. As I see it.
So you are gong the right way, what are your accomplishments so far. I have not seen you cause any positive changes in the current laws or environment as a result of your stand on this! The only thing I (and many others) see is some bitter, closed mined, folks who seem to have nothing positive to help in this fight. Only criticism and attempts to hinder and attack those who really do give a chitt and work to get things changed.[V]
I notice that whenever I point to how someone is pedaling in the wrong direction, their response is to say "well, what have you done". Well, for one, I stopped pedaling in the wrong direction. Once you stop doing that, then we can talk.0 -
quote:Originally posted by Jim Rau
quote:Originally posted by RTKBA
quote:Originally posted by Jim Rau
Look at like this guys.
You are gong the wrong way down the road at 60+ mph. Your goal is go the right/other way. If you simply crank the steering wheel hard and try to turn around you will end up in a big wreck.
You MUST first slow the vehicle down going the wrong way, then when it is stopped you MUST carefully turn around and then, and only then can you go down the right road.
You all need to stop jerking the wheel or you are going to end up in a big wreck!!!!![;)]
LOL you're a hoot Jim.
What you fail to realize is that vehicle wrecked a long time ago. And while some of us got out and are trying to fix the vehicle people like your self decided to keep walking down that wrong road. Good luck someday I hope you figure out how to get back to the right road.
So to you all is lost, the wreck has happened and we are all dead ! I feel sorry for you. Some of us don't give up that easy!!!![;)]
Perhaps I gave you too much credit, it happens. That car wrecked the moment we stopped believing in and trusting the Constitution. And while some of us decided to take a hard look at this country and where we are headed some like yourself decided to continue down that wrong road.
Take people Like LT496 and Don McManus. Now I don't mean to speak for them but I think they will agree the way to fix this country and get it headed down the right road is through education. Teaching people about the Constitution the founding principals and pushing for Constitutional adherence.
In another thread you claim to be a man of logic, able to set your emotions aside. So I will ask you to do that now. Set your emotions aside and answer this question logically.
In your right hand you want the local, State and Federal government to recognize an absolute right yet, In your left hand you believe and support an organization that barters away that right on every front. How do you expect that diametric view to come together?0 -
quote:Originally posted by Mr. Perfect
quote:Originally posted by Jim Rau
quote:Originally posted by Mr. Perfect
quote:Originally posted by Jim Rau
Look at like this guys.
You are gong the wrong way down the road at 60+ mph. Your goal is go the right/other way. If you simply crank the steering wheel hard and try to turn around you will end up in a big wreck.
You MUST first slow the vehicle down going the wrong way, then when it is stopped you MUST carefully turn around and then, and only then can you go down the right road.
You all need to stop jerking the wheel or you are going to end up in a big wreck!!!!![;)]
Actually, we're the ones going the right way, you're the one going the wrong way, and jerking the wheel as you go. As I see it.
So you are gong the right way, what are your accomplishments so far. I have not seen you cause any positive changes in the current laws or environment as a result of your stand on this! The only thing I (and many others) see is some bitter, closed mined, folks who seem to have nothing positive to help in this fight. Only criticism and attempts to hinder and attack those who really do give a chitt and work to get things changed.[V]
I notice that whenever I point to how someone is pedaling in the wrong direction, their response is to say "well, what have you done". Well, for one, I stopped pedaling in the wrong direction. Once you stop doing that, then we can talk.
So your actions are self satisfying but do nothing to help the rest of us who believe there is still a fight worth fighting for ALL of us!!! As I said before, I will not change your mind or any others who have closed their minds to any other position other than their own. The various pro gun organizations have steped in to support many folks who have been wronged individually and collectively, but to those with your believes they have not helped in any way. The bottom line is 'any compromise' in what you believe is wrong and those who do not do things as you think they should are wrong and the 'enemy'.
To me the 'wreck' occurs when we have a progressive dictator in chief, as we do now, who has appointed a Supreme Court of progressive judges, and the progressives have both houses of congress. Then we will be forced to use violence to defend our RTKABA'S. Until that occurs I will maintain my grasp on reality and do what I can to try and get this 'turned around' and going the right way with out violence.
I am sorry so many here have given up the fight!!![V]0 -
quote:Originally posted by RTKBA
quote:Originally posted by Jim Rau
quote:Originally posted by RTKBA
quote:Originally posted by Jim Rau
Look at like this guys.
You are gong the wrong way down the road at 60+ mph. Your goal is go the right/other way. If you simply crank the steering wheel hard and try to turn around you will end up in a big wreck.
You MUST first slow the vehicle down going the wrong way, then when it is stopped you MUST carefully turn around and then, and only then can you go down the right road.
You all need to stop jerking the wheel or you are going to end up in a big wreck!!!!![;)]
LOL you're a hoot Jim.
What you fail to realize is that vehicle wrecked a long time ago. And while some of us got out and are trying to fix the vehicle people like your self decided to keep walking down that wrong road. Good luck someday I hope you figure out how to get back to the right road.
So to you all is lost, the wreck has happened and we are all dead ! I feel sorry for you. Some of us don't give up that easy!!!![;)]
Perhaps I gave you too much credit, it happens. That car wrecked the moment we stopped believing in and trusting the Constitution. And while some of us decided to take a hard look at this country and where we are headed some like yourself decided to continue down that wrong road.
Take people Like LT496 and Don McManus. Now I don't mean to speak for them but I think they will agree the way to fix this country and get it headed down the right road is through education. Teaching people about the Constitution the founding principals and pushing for Constitutional adherence.
In another thread you claim to be a man of logic, able to set your emotions aside. So I will ask you to do that now. Set your emotions aside and answer this question logically.
In your right hand you want the local, State and Federal government to recognize an absolute right yet, In your left hand you believe and support an organization that barters away that right on every front. How do you expect that diametric view to come together?
I think I answered in the post above. But my question to you is, if the wreck has all ready occurred, what are your plans to fix it???[?]0 -
quote:Originally posted by Jim Rau
quote:Originally posted by RTKBA
quote:Originally posted by Jim Rau
quote:Originally posted by RTKBA
quote:Originally posted by Jim Rau
Look at like this guys.
You are gong the wrong way down the road at 60+ mph. Your goal is go the right/other way. If you simply crank the steering wheel hard and try to turn around you will end up in a big wreck.
You MUST first slow the vehicle down going the wrong way, then when it is stopped you MUST carefully turn around and then, and only then can you go down the right road.
You all need to stop jerking the wheel or you are going to end up in a big wreck!!!!![;)]
LOL you're a hoot Jim.
What you fail to realize is that vehicle wrecked a long time ago. And while some of us got out and are trying to fix the vehicle people like your self decided to keep walking down that wrong road. Good luck someday I hope you figure out how to get back to the right road.
So to you all is lost, the wreck has happened and we are all dead ! I feel sorry for you. Some of us don't give up that easy!!!![;)]
Perhaps I gave you too much credit, it happens. That car wrecked the moment we stopped believing in and trusting the Constitution. And while some of us decided to take a hard look at this country and where we are headed some like yourself decided to continue down that wrong road.
Take people Like LT496 and Don McManus. Now I don't mean to speak for them but I think they will agree the way to fix this country and get it headed down the right road is through education. Teaching people about the Constitution the founding principals and pushing for Constitutional adherence.
In another thread you claim to be a man of logic, able to set your emotions aside. So I will ask you to do that now. Set your emotions aside and answer this question logically.
In your right hand you want the local, State and Federal government to recognize an absolute right yet, In your left hand you believe and support an organization that barters away that right on every front. How do you expect that diametric view to come together?
I think I answered in the post above. But my question to you is, if the wreck has all ready occurred, what are your plans to fix it???[?]
Jim I answered your question before you asked it, you just need to reread my post. I looked for and couldn't find your answer to my question, But I will admit my question might be a tad complicated. So let's try this one instead. What exactly are you fighting for?
(edited for spelling)0 -
quote:Jim I answered your question before you asked it, you just need to reread my post. I looked for and couldn't find your answer to my question, But I will admit my question might be a tad complicated. So let's try this one instead. What exactly are you fighting for?
It seems to be a fight for government granted permission and for anti-Amendment II prohibitions, controls or dare I say it, 'infringements' on the fundamental constitutional God-given right to keep and bear arms, which are expressly against the absolute prohibition ON GOVERNMENT from doing so in the text of Amendment II.
Jim wants prior restraint/control/prohibition/infringement, by government, on firearms and weapons that he either fears or that he doesn't want others to have, for whatever the reason.
Hate to be so blunt, but then, that's the way it is, as I have seen it.0 -
Well if you have been on the site for awhile you would already know the answer to your question.
In the posts above I have answered your question about what the NRA and other organizations have done to support the RTKABA's.
As for me, I have stated my beliefs in no uncertain terms MANY times here. But because I only agree with about 98% of what you do I am the enemy also.[;)] As I said above, I know what I say will have no affect on you and many here as they have closed their minds to everything but what they want to hear.
Happy Christmas and a Merry New Year, All of God's blessing on you and yours, from our Sweet Home Alabama to where ever you all may be!!!![^]0 -
Merry Christmas Jim,......regardless of our differences.[:)] 0 -
quote:Originally posted by Marc1301
Merry Christmas Jim,......regardless of our differences.[:)]
+10 -
quote:Originally posted by lt496
quote:Jim I answered your question before you asked it, you just need to reread my post. I looked for and couldn't find your answer to my question, But I will admit my question might be a tad complicated. So let's try this one instead. What exactly are you fighting for?
It seems to be a fight for government granted permission and for anti-Amendment II prohibitions, controls or dare I say it, 'infringements' on the fundamental constitutional God-given right to keep and bear arms, which are expressly against the absolute prohibition ON GOVERNMENT from doing so in the text of Amendment II.
Jim wants prior restraint/control/prohibition/infringement, by government, on firearms and weapons that he either fears or that he doesn't want others to have, for whatever the reason.
Hate to be so blunt, but then, that's the way it is, as I have seen it.
Yeah I kind of thought that's where this conversation would lead, if he was willing to take it that far. It amazes me how many people turn there back on America and then claim to be fighting for it.
(edited for spelling)0 -
quote:Originally posted by lt496
quote:Jim I answered your question before you asked it, you just need to reread my post. I looked for and couldn't find your answer to my question, But I will admit my question might be a tad complicated. So let's try this one instead. What exactly are you fighting for?
It seems to be a fight for government granted permission and for anti-Amendment II prohibitions, controls or dare I say it, 'infringements' on the fundamental constitutional God-given right to keep and bear arms, which are expressly against the absolute prohibition ON GOVERNMENT from doing so in the text of Amendment II.
Jim wants prior restraint/control/prohibition/infringement, by government, on firearms and weapons that he either fears or that he doesn't want others to have, for whatever the reason.
Hate to be so blunt, but then, that's the way it is, as I have seen it.
The 'management' of the right has nothing to with fear, only reality. Honestly, you think you can get the majority of this country to go along with your 'ideal' implication of Amendment # 2???/
I think not. You would NEVER get public opinion on your side, so you are being silly to think you could EVER accomplish what you preach. I on the other hand I agree with 98+% of what you do,BUT I give it the reality test, and it fails miserably. Just a fact which you and other refuse to recognize.[:0]
So when you and your friends come back to reality lets get started fighting for our rights!!![8D]0 -
quote:Yep.. The Brady Bunch love NRA bashers...
don't make any huge bets on that, they know we are the force who will jump to defend America, our Constitution and Bill of Rights long before the NRA takes any action. also recall there was no NRA in 1776ad the defenders of our nation were common citizens who preferred freedom and liberty over a tyrannical "King" and his rules, i and many millions of NON-NRA'ers will be the force to fire the next first shot heard round the world.., NOT the Negotiable Rights Association.
i too once was a member of the NRA, but when Neal Knox walked away from them, i and many, many others during the 1976ad convention in San Diego walked away and never looked back.
face it NRA members, they are NOT gun owners best friend, they backed the full auto ban which now is the reason an M16 costs $15,000.00 or more !!
other than myself, how many here think/believe that full auto ban should be rescinded [?] [?] [?]
maybe i should make it a poll [?] [?]0 -
quote:Originally posted by USN_Airdale
quote:Yep.. The Brady Bunch love NRA bashers...
don't make any huge bets on that, they know we are the force who will jump to defend America, our Constitution and Bill of Rights long before the NRA takes any action. also recall there was no NRA in 1776ad the defenders of our nation were common citizens who preferred freedom and liberty over a tyrannical "King" and his rules, i and many millions of NON-NRA'ers will be the force to fire the next first shot heard round the world.., NOT the Negotiable Rights Association.
i too once was a member of the NRA, but when Neal Knox walked away from them, i and many, many others during the 1976ad convention in San Diego walked away and never looked back.
face it NRA members, they are NOT gun owners best friend, they backed the full auto ban which now is the reason an M16 costs $15,000.00 or more !!
other than myself, how many here think/believe that full auto ban should be rescinded [?] [?] [?]
maybe i should make it a poll [?] [?]
Well said.
As for the full auto ban, allow me to simply say the Amendment II clearly 'states' that the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.
That is dirt-simple text and it is a clear and absolute prohibition ON GOVERNMENT from infringing on that fundamental constitutionally enumerated right, read controlling, regulating, prohibiting, prior restraints, 'permitting' et al.
That would be inclusive of full-autos.0 -
quote:Originally posted by USN_Airdale
face it NRA members, they are NOT gun owners best friend, they backed the full auto ban which now is the reason an M16 costs $15,000.00 or more !!
Just making sure, you are talking about the 1986 ban on sales of new machine guns to citizens.....correct?
Not the 1934 ban on private ownership without being registered, taxed, etc., which they ALSO backed.0 -
YES ! the 1986ad ban, the 1934ad ban and every anti gun legislation to hit congress, many of which the NRA agreed with and/or compromised on.
in 1976ad the NRA was still deeply concerned about the rights of "Duck Hunters" shotguns, that is what Neal Knox was disagreeing with them about, the "Black Rifle" was gaining popularity, the NRA's leaders at the time did not like the "Black Rifle", it looked to militaristic and had no sporting purpose.
Neal wanted the Negotiable Rights Association to protect and defend the rights of every gun owner and their choice of firearms but as usual the Negotiable Rights Association balked and has sided more with the ANTI's than with their membership which at that time they lost a few thousand members over their, protecting the rights of "Duck Hunters", plus their constant caving and compromising.0 -
quote:Originally posted by lt496
quote:Originally posted by USN_Airdale
quote:Yep.. The Brady Bunch love NRA bashers...
don't make any huge bets on that, they know we are the force who will jump to defend America, our Constitution and Bill of Rights long before the NRA takes any action. also recall there was no NRA in 1776ad the defenders of our nation were common citizens who preferred freedom and liberty over a tyrannical "King" and his rules, i and many millions of NON-NRA'ers will be the force to fire the next first shot heard round the world.., NOT the Negotiable Rights Association.
i too once was a member of the NRA, but when Neal Knox walked away from them, i and many, many others during the 1976ad convention in San Diego walked away and never looked back.
face it NRA members, they are NOT gun owners best friend, they backed the full auto ban which now is the reason an M16 costs $15,000.00 or more !!
other than myself, how many here think/believe that full auto ban should be rescinded [?] [?] [?]
maybe i should make it a poll [?] [?]
Well said.
As for the full auto ban, allow me to simply say the Amendment II clearly 'states' that the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.
That is dirt-simple text and it is a clear and absolute prohibition ON GOVERNMENT from infringing on that fundamental constitutionally enumerated right, read controlling, regulating, prohibiting, prior restraints, 'permitting' et al.
That would be inclusive of full-autos.
OK Jeff,
Let us say we agree on this. What is your plan to make it happen????????? You just proved what I have been trying to get across to you for a long time. If you can't come up with a realistic plan to accomplish your goal you are wasting your time and effort. In today's world, with so many overly civilized idealistic idiot out there (liberal progressives), just how do you and your fellow believers intend to accomplish this?????? Simply put, you can't. It is not a realistic goal!!!
The two (Rau's[;)]) rules of goal seating are:
1. The goal must be realistic. (probability to accomplish the goal)
2. The goals but be non conflicting.
Our differences are slight, except for the fact that you and many here are idealists and I am a realist!!![:)]
Perfect/ideal is only found in the mind of the beholder, not in the real world![V]0 -
quote:Originally posted by Jim Rau
quote:Originally posted by lt496
quote:Originally posted by USN_Airdale
quote:Yep.. The Brady Bunch love NRA bashers...
don't make any huge bets on that, they know we are the force who will jump to defend America, our Constitution and Bill of Rights long before the NRA takes any action. also recall there was no NRA in 1776ad the defenders of our nation were common citizens who preferred freedom and liberty over a tyrannical "King" and his rules, i and many millions of NON-NRA'ers will be the force to fire the next first shot heard round the world.., NOT the Negotiable Rights Association.
i too once was a member of the NRA, but when Neal Knox walked away from them, i and many, many others during the 1976ad convention in San Diego walked away and never looked back.
face it NRA members, they are NOT gun owners best friend, they backed the full auto ban which now is the reason an M16 costs $15,000.00 or more !!
other than myself, how many here think/believe that full auto ban should be rescinded [?] [?] [?]
maybe i should make it a poll [?] [?]
Well said.
As for the full auto ban, allow me to simply say the Amendment II clearly 'states' that the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.
That is dirt-simple text and it is a clear and absolute prohibition ON GOVERNMENT from infringing on that fundamental constitutionally enumerated right, read controlling, regulating, prohibiting, prior restraints, 'permitting' et al.
That would be inclusive of full-autos.
OK Jeff,
Let us say we agree on this. What is your plan to make it happen????????? You just proved what I have been trying to get across to you for a long time. If you can't come up with a realistic plan to accomplish your goal you are wasting your time and effort. In today's world, with so many overly civilized idealistic idiot out there (liberal progressives), just how do you and your fellow believers intend to accomplish this?????? Simply put, you can't. It is not a realistic goal!!!
The two (Rau's[;)]) rules of goal seating are:
1. The goal must be realistic. (probability to accomplish the goal)
2. The goals but be non conflicting.
Our differences are slight, except for the fact that you and many here are idealists and I am a realist!!![:)]
Perfect/ideal is only found in the mind of the beholder, not in the real world![V]
No, Jim, lets not say that we agree, because we do not.
Our differences are not 'slight' at all. You cede government the authority to do that which they are expressly prohibited from doing.
One cannot logically start from that position, Mr. Rau-realist.
My 'plan' is as it always has been...
That being, to cock-block any and all examples of government infringement on the RKBA and the efforts and advocacy of people (like you) who attempt to rationalize, justify or gain acceptance for such prohibited government actions...and to shine bright light upon those actions, government or citizen led, whilst working on educating, in my typical unwavering and blunt style, that such actions and such advocacy are contrary to Amendment II and pointing to the place that they inevitably lead.
All the while, I speak out in many venues, I write letters in the same manner, I petition government in the same manner, I urge support for groups who understand and stand for Amendment II and who have a national voice, I shine the light of provable fact on and urge non-support of organizations and people who take your approach, which is contrary to Amendment II
I dare say, that the El-Tee plan vs. the Jim Rau plan, conducted by each of us, is more effective.
I have seen a number of members here who have openly stated that they were awakened and changed their approach and views based on such efforts (not necessarily by me) by people who take the Amendment II textual position and who call things as they are.
How about your plan? You having any converts to accepting government usurpation? If so, more is the pity.
Idealism is not idiocy, as you claim.
Constitution and Liberty Idealism is the well-spring of principle, ethic and integrity and the base from which principled advocacy and non-acceptance of predatory extra/anti-constitutional governance, springs.
Thinking that one can wrest a fundamental right back from government, once that right is conceded to be mere privilege, is lunacy, IMO.
There was a time where men would stand up and claim their rights and take the position that they would NOT accept, or accede to certain things.
Sadly, such men seem to be all but gone and such principle has all but been eradicated, replaced, rather, with some namby-pamby 'go along to get along' and 'be reasonable' about government taking powers that are not theirs to take.
Sorry, Jim, I ain't buying any.[:)]0
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