Time to Close Down the ATF
This week, Rep. Darrell Issa (R-CA) beamed a spotlight on the criminal behavior of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, commonly referred to as the ATF. At Wednesday's hearing, Issa took on Assistant Attorney General Ronald Weich by asking him: "Who authorized this program that was so felony stupid it got people killed."
http://gunowners.org/a06172011.htm
http://www.offensivestuff.com/wordpress/?p=1548
http://gunowners.org/a06172011.htm
http://www.offensivestuff.com/wordpress/?p=1548
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quote:Originally posted by sovereignman
Time to Close Down the ATF
WAY past time.0 -
quote:Originally posted by pickenup
quote:Originally posted by sovereignman
Time to Close Down the ATF
WAY past time.
We all need to pressure congress to shut the ATF down...But I fear most gun owners don't give a *^&$$# jmo.0 -
quote:Originally posted by sovereignman
quote:Originally posted by pickenup
quote:Originally posted by sovereignman
Time to Close Down the ATF
WAY past time.
We all need to pressure congress to shut the ATF down...But I fear most gun owners don't give a *^&$$# jmo.
Most gun owners support the ATF in its efforts to keep the wrong people from owning firearms, sovereignman. No, they do not come out a specifically state it, but it should be obvious that their support of a Federal NCIS implies the need for enforcement, and thus the need for an agency to do just that.0 -
quote:Originally posted by Don McManus
quote:Originally posted by sovereignman
quote:Originally posted by pickenup
quote:Originally posted by sovereignman
Time to Close Down the ATF
WAY past time.
We all need to pressure congress to shut the ATF down...But I fear most gun owners don't give a *^&$$# jmo.
Most gun owners support the ATF in its efforts to keep the wrong people from owning firearms, sovereignman. No, they do not come out a specifically state it, but it should be obvious that their support of a Federal NCIS implies the need for enforcement, and thus the need for an agency to do just that.
Indoctrination, aint it grand.0 -
quote:Originally posted by Don McManus
Most gun owners support the ATF in its efforts to keep the wrong people from owning firearms, sovereignman. No, they do not come out a specifically state it, but it should be obvious that their support of a Federal NCIS implies the need for enforcement, and thus the need for an agency to do just that.
BINGO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!0 -
ATF will give themselves a medal and honors banquet ..just like lon horiuchi got for his expertise 0 -
I am somewhat surprised that there haven't been more ruby ridges or waco's but then again, the media is so mired in messiah worshiping that if there was it wouldn't rate any type of coverage.
[xx(]0 -
quote:logo
June 20, 2011
GOA Alert
Gun Owners of America
Oppose the Cover-up Protection Act
-- Vote could come as early as Tuesday
As we reported to you on Friday, House Republicans got a royal "drop dead" from Assistant Attorney General Ronald Weich when he testified before Rep. Darrell Issa's committee last week.
Weich had earlier written Congress to deny wrongdoing by ATF in connection with allegations that it was intentionally allowing firearms to fall into the hands of Mexican drug cartels. This Justice Department denial by Weich turned out to be false.
Weich had also refused to respond to repeated congressional demands for documents, and documents which he did provide were frequently nothing more than jet-black pieces of paper.
At the committee hearing, Weich told Chairman Darrell Issa and the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform that he would continue to withhold documents from Congress.
He also refused to answer questions from committee members such as Utah's Jason Chaffetz and South Carolina's Trey Gowdy.
And, incidentally, Weich refused to provide any information to Iowa Republican Chuck Grassley, on the sole excuse that Grassley was a mere "Republican." If Republicans wanted to exercise their constitutional oversight functions, intoned Weich, they would have to go begging to liberal anti-gun Senate Judiciary Committee Chairman Pat Leahy.
So imagine our surprise that the Senate is poised to take up S. 679 -- "bipartisan" legislation which would exempt Weich, his successors, and 203 other similarly situated federal officials from Senate confirmation.
One would think it's important that federal officials who are responsible for telling Congressmen what documents they can or can't review should be first approved with the "advice and consent" of the Senate.
But for Republican Senator Sue Collins, it's apparently no big deal. After all, she is a sponsor of S. 679, the legislation to exempt hundreds of officials from Senate scrutiny.
Gun owners who have watched Weich cover up ATF's anti-gun policies -- policies which have intentionally flooded Mexican gun cartels with guns and resulted in the murder of federal law enforcement officers -- realize why it is important that the Senate should be able to block liars like Weich.
One strategy note: We do not expect to defeat the Cover-up Protection Act in the Senate where, sadly, Republican leader Mitch McConnell is a cosponsor. But if we do "respectably" well -- say, we get 20 votes or so against the bill -- it will give us the strength we need to ask that the bill be killed in the House.
The Senate could vote on this bill as soon as Tuesday.
ACTION: Click here to contact your two U.S. Senators. Demand that they oppose cloture on the Cover-up Protection Act.
Not just the jack boots destroying the republic, plenty of scumbag politicians covering up for them,and assisting in the destruction.0 -
[V][V][:(][:(]
quote:Originally posted by Don McManus
quote:Originally posted by sovereignman
quote:Originally posted by pickenup
quote:Originally posted by sovereignman
Time to Close Down the ATF
WAY past time.
We all need to pressure congress to shut the ATF down...But I fear most gun owners don't give a *^&$$# jmo.
Most gun owners support the ATF in its efforts to keep the wrong people from owning firearms, sovereignman. No, they do not come out a specifically state it, but it should be obvious that their support of a Federal NCIS implies the need for enforcement, and thus the need for an agency to do just that.0 -
quote:Originally posted by sovereignman
This week, Rep. Darrell Issa (R-CA) beamed a spotlight on the criminal behavior of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, commonly referred to as the ATF. At Wednesday's hearing, Issa took on Assistant Attorney General Ronald Weich by asking him: "Who authorized this program that was so felony stupid it got people killed."
http://gunowners.org/a06172011.htm
If it's going to get done it's up to the gun owners of america to do it.
Thats you!0 -
quote:Originally posted by quickmajik
quote:Originally posted by Don McManus
quote:Originally posted by sovereignman
quote:Originally posted by pickenup
quote:Originally posted by sovereignman
Time to Close Down the ATF
WAY past time.
We all need to pressure congress to shut the ATF down...But I fear most gun owners don't give a *^&$$# jmo.
Most gun owners support the ATF in its efforts to keep the wrong people from owning firearms, sovereignman. No, they do not come out a specifically state it, but it should be obvious that their support of a Federal NCIS implies the need for enforcement, and thus the need for an agency to do just that.
Indoctrination, aint it grand.
Agree first indoctrination, then brain washing, then slavery, JMO.0 -
ATF does have a use, but needs serious reality check. Anti-gunners have NO place as its chief. They need do there job objectively.
No agency has right of making, interrpreting, And enforcing rules. Not all three. That's why we have congreess, supreme court, And a president, not lumped together into some monarchy.
They redefined "flash powder" and "black powder" as:" H.E"--any chemist can tell you they are wrong. They have no business redefining chemistry and then enforcing it. They are only on the enforcing end, and do a poor job of that. Really should be left for more experiemnced, like federal marshals or FBI.
I met a dealer at a gun show, who had his customer fill out Federal transfer form to best of his abilities. Customer was ok'd. A Month later, ATF reneged, called the dealer and said:"What was his address, again?"[xx(] Their slip-up is Not the dealer's fault; it now makes Him look "bad" and possibly let a prohibited possessor get away. It also hurt his sales, and make him "gun-shy" (no pun!) of anyone who even Seemed "suspicious", after that snafu. He was ready to go over to the ATF booth at the gun show and chew them out with me.0 -
There is nothing that the ATF does, that state police cant do better.[;)] 0 -
quote:Originally posted by ninefingers
ATF does have a use,
What might that be?0 -
quote:Originally posted by Horse Plains Drifter
quote:Originally posted by ninefingers
ATF does have a use,
What might that be?
+10 -
+ another
[?]
quote:Originally posted by Horse Plains Drifter
quote:Originally posted by ninefingers
ATF does have a use,
What might that be?0 -
Let me just go on and say this ...
There is NO useful purpose for the BATFE in our society. Gun laws are unConstitutional and are without merit, unless you're one who leans and accepts a nation based upon socialism and totalitarianism. Our Founding Fathers wrote our nation's documents and those documents are the reasons ATF should NOT EXIST.
Enfringing upon the Rights of the American citizen has been the ATF's goal from its conception and they continue to chip away at our freedoms while going basically unchecked.
Disbanning and disarming the BATFE is the ONLY ANSWER.
quote:Originally posted by ninefingers
ATF does have a use, but needs serious reality check. Anti-gunners have NO place as its chief. They need do there job objectively.
No agency has right of making, interrpreting, And enforcing rules. Not all three. That's why we have congreess, supreme court, And a president, not lumped together into some monarchy.
They redefined "flash powder" and "black powder" as:" H.E"--any chemist can tell you they are wrong. They have no business redefining chemistry and then enforcing it. They are only on the enforcing end, and do a poor job of that. Really should be left for more experiemnced, like federal marshals or FBI.
I met a dealer at a gun show, who had his customer fill out Federal transfer form to best of his abilities. Customer was ok'd. A Month later, ATF reneged, called the dealer and said:"What was his address, again?"[xx(] Their slip-up is Not the dealer's fault; it now makes Him look "bad" and possibly let a prohibited possessor get away. It also hurt his sales, and make him "gun-shy" (no pun!) of anyone who even Seemed "suspicious", after that snafu. He was ready to go over to the ATF booth at the gun show and chew them out with me.0 -
quote:Originally posted by Don McManus
quote:Originally posted by sovereignman
quote:Originally posted by pickenup
quote:Originally posted by sovereignman
Time to Close Down the ATF
WAY past time.
We all need to pressure congress to shut the ATF down...But I fear most gun owners don't give a *^&$$# jmo.
Most gun owners support the ATF in its efforts to keep the wrong people from owning firearms, sovereignman. No, they do not come out a specifically state it, but it should be obvious that their support of a Federal NCIS implies the need for enforcement, and thus the need for an agency to do just that.
I have noted just the opposite. Most GO's give lip service to the BATFE but do NOT support the BS they enforce.
We do need to try and defund them through the legislature. The environment is ripe to get some the 'extremism' in the guberment defunded. [}:)]0 -
quote:Originally posted by Jim Rau
quote:Originally posted by Don McManus
quote:Originally posted by sovereignman
quote:Originally posted by pickenup
quote:Originally posted by sovereignman
Time to Close Down the ATF
WAY past time.
We all need to pressure congress to shut the ATF down...But I fear most gun owners don't give a *^&$$# jmo.
Most gun owners support the ATF in its efforts to keep the wrong people from owning firearms, sovereignman. No, they do not come out a specifically state it, but it should be obvious that their support of a Federal NCIS implies the need for enforcement, and thus the need for an agency to do just that.
I have noted just the opposite. Most GO's give lip service to the BATFE but do NOT support the BS they enforce.
We do need to try and defund them through the legislature. The environment is ripe to get some the 'extremism' in the guberment defunded. [}:)]
I agree!
Its time to trim the most fruitful limbs off the idiot tree.
I'm sure they can get a job at the post office.0 -
quote:Originally posted by Don McManus
quote:Originally posted by sovereignman
quote:Originally posted by pickenup
quote:Originally posted by sovereignman
Time to Close Down the ATF
WAY past time.
We all need to pressure congress to shut the ATF down...But I fear most gun owners don't give a *^&$$# jmo.
Most gun owners support the ATF in its efforts to keep the wrong people from owning firearms, sovereignman. No, they do not come out a specifically state it, but it should be obvious that their support of a Federal NCIS implies the need for enforcement, and thus the need for an agency to do just that.
It "always" should be in the hands of the State in which the residents reside.Not in the federal buzzard'* hands. Thank God for Vermont and others,more to come as well.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitutional_carry0 -
quote:Originally posted by RogueStatesman
Let me just go on and say this ...
There is NO useful purpose for the BATFE in our society. Gun laws are unConstitutional and are without merit, unless you're one who leans and accepts a nation based upon socialism and totalitarianism. Our Founding Fathers wrote our nation's documents and those documents are the reasons ATF should NOT EXIST.
Enfringing upon the Rights of the American citizen has been the ATF's goal from its conception and they continue to chip away at our freedoms while going basically unchecked.
Disbanning and disarming the BATFE is the ONLY ANSWER.
quote:Originally posted by ninefingers
ATF does have a use, but needs serious reality check. Anti-gunners have NO place as its chief. They need do there job objectively.
No agency has right of making, interrpreting, And enforcing rules. Not all three. That's why we have congreess, supreme court, And a president, not lumped together into some monarchy.
They redefined "flash powder" and "black powder" as:" H.E"--any chemist can tell you they are wrong. They have no business redefining chemistry and then enforcing it. They are only on the enforcing end, and do a poor job of that. Really should be left for more experiemnced, like federal marshals or FBI.
I met a dealer at a gun show, who had his customer fill out Federal transfer form to best of his abilities. Customer was ok'd. A Month later, ATF reneged, called the dealer and said:"What was his address, again?"[xx(] Their slip-up is Not the dealer's fault; it now makes Him look "bad" and possibly let a prohibited possessor get away. It also hurt his sales, and make him "gun-shy" (no pun!) of anyone who even Seemed "suspicious", after that snafu. He was ready to go over to the ATF booth at the gun show and chew them out with me.
The BATF is Unconstitutional! States rights take precedent.
dont believe it?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitutional_carry
I any of you on this site live in a State considering legislation please become activists . It's that important!0 -
The biggest problem with abolishing the ATF is that the role of enforcer would fall to the FBI who wiould even more hostile, not to mention more secretive in the governments efforts to bring the nations gun owners to heel like a bad puppy. Sometimes the devil you know isn't as bad as the devil you don't. Do we want them shamed and diminished, yet visible with the populace watching their every move from here on, or give it over to the FBI where we won't know what they are up to in their war against the constitution?
Just a little something to think about, and my two cents...0 -
quote:Originally posted by rkba4ever
The biggest problem with abolishing the ATF is that the role of enforcer would fall to the FBI who wiould even more hostile, not to mention more secretive in the governments efforts to bring the nations gun owners to heel like a bad puppy. Sometimes the devil you know isn't as bad as the devil you don't. Do we want them shamed and diminished, yet visible with the populace watching their every move from here on, or give it over to the FBI where we won't know what they are up to in their war against the constitution?
Just a little something to think about, and my two cents...
point Taken. If the BATF is shut down it will save taxpayers millions of dollars and "if" the FBI took over the American People could put them on the watch list. A double win for liberty. JMO0 -
quote:Originally posted by RogueStatesman
Let me just go on and say this ...
There is NO useful purpose for the BATFE in our society. Gun laws are unConstitutional and are without merit, unless you're one who leans and accepts a nation based upon socialism and totalitarianism. Our Founding Fathers wrote our nation's documents and those documents are the reasons ATF should NOT EXIST.
Enfringing upon the Rights of the American citizen has been the ATF's goal from its conception and they continue to chip away at our freedoms while going basically unchecked.
Disbanning and disarming the BATFE is the ONLY ANSWER.
quote:Originally posted by ninefingers
ATF does have a use, but needs serious reality check. Anti-gunners have NO place as its chief. They need do there job objectively.
No agency has right of making, interrpreting, And enforcing rules. Not all three. That's why we have congreess, supreme court, And a president, not lumped together into some monarchy.
They redefined "flash powder" and "black powder" as:" H.E"--any chemist can tell you they are wrong. They have no business redefining chemistry and then enforcing it. They are only on the enforcing end, and do a poor job of that. Really should be left for more experiemnced, like federal marshals or FBI.
I met a dealer at a gun show, who had his customer fill out Federal transfer form to best of his abilities. Customer was ok'd. A Month later, ATF reneged, called the dealer and said:"What was his address, again?"[xx(] Their slip-up is Not the dealer's fault; it now makes Him look "bad" and possibly let a prohibited possessor get away. It also hurt his sales, and make him "gun-shy" (no pun!) of anyone who even Seemed "suspicious", after that snafu. He was ready to go over to the ATF booth at the gun show and chew them out with me.
http://www.infowars.com/batf-admits-guns-walked-under-fast-furious/0 -
The ATF only purpose in life is the control and confiscation of privately owned weapons. They write gun policies so contradictory and confusing that they don't even understand their own regulations. Which is usefull. It's a win win for them. The average citizen doesn't have the money to fight them long term for a wrongfull prosecution. So they are forced to give up. The ATF wins another one and another batch of guns gets melted. Or an anti-gun judge sides with them and the outcome is the same. And in both cases they only have to present a possibility of a violation. They case of the accidental burst malfunction at the range. They could not re-produce the malfunction without modifying the ammunition. But they used that as a basis to procecute and win against an innocent man. The ATF attitude is that gun rights are what THEY say they are. And of course, their basic policy is that there is no right to own a gun. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by sovereignman
This week, Rep. Darrell Issa (R-CA) beamed a spotlight on the criminal behavior of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, commonly referred to as the ATF. At Wednesday's hearing, Issa took on Assistant Attorney General Ronald Weich by asking him: "Who authorized this program that was so felony stupid it got people killed."
http://gunowners.org/a06172011.htm
http://www.offensivestuff.com/wordpress/?p=1548
NRA and others are getting involved in the illegal actions of the batf.
http://video.foxnews.com/v/1095760427001/fierce-battle-over-gun-rights/?playlist_id=87937&intcmp=obinsite0 -
quote:Originally posted by 45long
The ATF only purpose in life is the control and confiscation of privately owned weapons. They write gun policies so contradictory and confusing that they don't even understand their own regulations. Which is usefull. It's a win win for them. The average citizen doesn't have the money to fight them long term for a wrongfull prosecution. So they are forced to give up. The ATF wins another one and another batch of guns gets melted. Or an anti-gun judge sides with them and the outcome is the same. Anreed in both cases they only have to present a possibility of a violation. They case of the accidental burst malfunction at the range. They could not re-produce the malfunction without modifying the ammunition. But they used that as a basis to procecute and win against an innocent man. The ATF attitude is that gun rights are what THEY say they are. And of course, their basic policy is that there is no right to own a gun.
Agree. The Congress make the monster and then can't control the beast or don't want to. Time to continue the revolution we started
over 2 years ago.
http://www.thepostemail.com/2011/07/13/will-the-real-tea-party-revolutionaries-please-stand-up/
http://www.ammoland.com/2011/08/09/nra-ila-legal-update-august-2011/
Words on ATF fast and furious.0 -
The Atf, needs to be reformed, not abolished. Most of the atf employees are no different tnan you and I. I have a neighbor who works as an agent. Why do we condemn the whole, when its the leadership that needs replacing?
We condemn the president, do we want to abolish the presidency?0 -
Yeah. J. I wouldn't trust him with anything gun related.
Sovereignman,, They did the same thing with the EPA and thier many clones. One of the MOST Anti-Business departments ever created.0 -
quote:Originally posted by J 1357
The Atf, needs to be reformed, not abolished. Most of the atf employees are no different tnan you and I. I have a neighbor who works as an agent. Why do we condemn the whole, when its the leadership that needs replacing?
We condemn the president, do we want to abolish the presidency?
I do not agree . We do not need the likes of the ATF IRS HomeLand Security etc it is a slippery slope that will eventually break the backs of those who bow to the unconstitutional authority. Congress makes unlawful decisions and we suffer from the lack of oversight.
We have been voting left right for years now , What has it gotten us?
I suggest it's time to rethink and make changes.0
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